So in the near future I am looking to upgrade my computer. I am currently running an i5 4690k with a 960. I game at 144hz (1080p) and want to start streaming. I am heavily considering a 1070 because for a beginner streamer I know my i5 is enough however I need to pull in a few more fps. In addition to that the reason I am questioning my 1070 decision is because the games I play are not demanding at all. Such as, league of legends, H1Z1, Overwatch, and other low demanding games that when not streaming my 960 can achieve 144fps in no issue (with certain settings). So my other option would be to save a little more and go for a 1060 AND an i7 4790k. I have no need to upgrade my CPU to Skylake or Kaby Lake because it will just cost so much more money. So would I be better off with a 1060 and i7 4790k? Or just say F*** it and pick up a 1070?
1070 for 144hz streaming?
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hdmark
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if your i5 is enough to stream as is, i think your best bet would just be to move up to a 1060 6gb. its comparable to a 970 (the 1060 has more power but not by much). If youre close to where you want to be, but not quite there, i think would do the trick.
no reason to push to a 1070 unless youre planning 1440p in the future
no reason to push to a 1070 unless youre planning 1440p in the future
Palewing
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Overwatch is actually quite demanding on max settings, especially if you want to stream it and make the stream not look horrible.
On my system, with a 5820k at 4.5ghz and a GTX 1070, I will barely hold constant 60 fps when at max settings.
The max enforced bitrate of 3.5mBit on twitch and hitbox is woefully inadequate for streaming high pace FPS-games. In order to make it less bad, you need to use very demanding cpu presets; presets that could eat up even an overclocked 8-core cpu from Intel.
And the 4790k would barely be an upgrade, so don't get that.
If you are happy with a pixelated 720p 30fps stream, then it doesn't matter much. League of Legends is of course much easier to make look good, both because it lets you run slower presets and because of the static nature of the game.
On my system, with a 5820k at 4.5ghz and a GTX 1070, I will barely hold constant 60 fps when at max settings.
The max enforced bitrate of 3.5mBit on twitch and hitbox is woefully inadequate for streaming high pace FPS-games. In order to make it less bad, you need to use very demanding cpu presets; presets that could eat up even an overclocked 8-core cpu from Intel.
And the 4790k would barely be an upgrade, so don't get that.
If you are happy with a pixelated 720p 30fps stream, then it doesn't matter much. League of Legends is of course much easier to make look good, both because it lets you run slower presets and because of the static nature of the game.
TechyInAZ
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I highly recommend you go for the GTX 1070 either way. It will help if you end up streaming a more demanding game in the next year or two.
If you want the smoothest stream you can have, I suggest you follow these rules:
1. Make your frame rate the same or a multiple of your streams frame rate. So in your case, if you want to stream at 60fps, you should try to keep your in game FPS at 120fps, or 180fps, or 240fps etc etc.
2. Don't use more than 90% of your GPUs usage. This way, the built in GPU encoder has enough power from the GPU to keep your stream high quality. If your not using a capture card that is.
3. Make sure your bit rate is high enough for your resolution. There's nothing worse in my opinion than a 1080P stream with a bit rate that is insanely low. If you need to go super low, switch to 720P.
If you want the smoothest stream you can have, I suggest you follow these rules:
1. Make your frame rate the same or a multiple of your streams frame rate. So in your case, if you want to stream at 60fps, you should try to keep your in game FPS at 120fps, or 180fps, or 240fps etc etc.
2. Don't use more than 90% of your GPUs usage. This way, the built in GPU encoder has enough power from the GPU to keep your stream high quality. If your not using a capture card that is.
3. Make sure your bit rate is high enough for your resolution. There's nothing worse in my opinion than a 1080P stream with a bit rate that is insanely low. If you need to go super low, switch to 720P.
Palewing
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To follow up on TechyInAZ's post; since Overwatch is a fast game, a 30 fps stream will appear very stuttery, but a 60 fps stream, while much smoother, will be so blocky that it will be hard to see what's going on anyway(unless you have enough power to use very slow presets, which you don't).
I have personally tried to find overall decent settings for such occasions, and I have a recommendation. Try streaming at 36 fps. 36 fps can be a lot smoother than 30, while still giving more data for each frame versus going 60 fps, so that you have much less blocky images. And the best of all, going along with something else TechyInAZ mentioned: It is divisible by 144hz.
And I also recommend the GTX 1070 due to its price/performance-level.
I have personally tried to find overall decent settings for such occasions, and I have a recommendation. Try streaming at 36 fps. 36 fps can be a lot smoother than 30, while still giving more data for each frame versus going 60 fps, so that you have much less blocky images. And the best of all, going along with something else TechyInAZ mentioned: It is divisible by 144hz.
And I also recommend the GTX 1070 due to its price/performance-level.
So just to be clear. A higher bit rate is determined from my GPU power? Also do you think my i5 will become outdated in the future or the devil's canyon line of cpus will become out dated? Because instead of upgrading my CPU, motherboard, and ram I'd much rather just upgrade my cpu to the 4790k. So I should go for the 1070 for now and then in the future go for the i7?
Palewing
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The difference between streaming at 1.5Mbit or 3.5mbit has no real practical difference in how much CPU or GPU power it uses. But a better compression, giving you a better quality stream for the bitrate, has a huge difference in CPU usage, and the framerate you wish to stream at also makes a huge difference in how much performance that is required.
The higher the framerate, and the lower the bitrate, the more compression is required to maintain a decent quality for every frame, depending on how much motion etc. there is in what you stream. I don't know which program you use to stream/intend to use, but if you are going to use OBS Studio with the x264 encoder, it's mostly about the cpu. But you still need GPU power to spare for the stream not to stutter/break up. Thus the requirement for having 10-20% gpu power left unused when running the game, for the stream to use. The 1070 will give you the power to spare as long as you run with vsync or at least limit your fps with a limiter so that the streaming program gets the GPU power it needs. You still won't be able to run the slower (and better) presets, such as medium and slow on most games with a quad core, though. But it will be "good enough".
The higher the framerate, and the lower the bitrate, the more compression is required to maintain a decent quality for every frame, depending on how much motion etc. there is in what you stream. I don't know which program you use to stream/intend to use, but if you are going to use OBS Studio with the x264 encoder, it's mostly about the cpu. But you still need GPU power to spare for the stream not to stutter/break up. Thus the requirement for having 10-20% gpu power left unused when running the game, for the stream to use. The 1070 will give you the power to spare as long as you run with vsync or at least limit your fps with a limiter so that the streaming program gets the GPU power it needs. You still won't be able to run the slower (and better) presets, such as medium and slow on most games with a quad core, though. But it will be "good enough".
Palewing
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You will be able to stream all games, but you will have to use a medium/light compression depending on the game, giving you maybe 2/3 of the quality of what you could achieve with an 8-core Intel CPU.
And you probably can't stream Overwatch in 60 fps, because there would be too much artifacting. Streaming at a high FPS in itself requires a lot of power, and even more so since you (again) need an even higher compression to prevent too much artifacting/blockiness in the picture.
TLDR; Yes.
But if you can't maintain a good fps in these games now while streaming (720p 30 fps) with even with the "very fast" preset, even when you have all low settings and 720p in the games (just to test), you need a much beefier CPU (Hexacore or Octacore), which will not be cheap. Another Quad-core won't help enough for it to be worth it.
That said, 144hz 1080p requires a lot more of the cpu than even 4k 60hz ever will (with a few notable exceptions where games misuse the cpu for lighting and shadow effects, but let's not go there).
And you probably can't stream Overwatch in 60 fps, because there would be too much artifacting. Streaming at a high FPS in itself requires a lot of power, and even more so since you (again) need an even higher compression to prevent too much artifacting/blockiness in the picture.
TLDR; Yes.
But if you can't maintain a good fps in these games now while streaming (720p 30 fps) with even with the "very fast" preset, even when you have all low settings and 720p in the games (just to test), you need a much beefier CPU (Hexacore or Octacore), which will not be cheap. Another Quad-core won't help enough for it to be worth it.
That said, 144hz 1080p requires a lot more of the cpu than even 4k 60hz ever will (with a few notable exceptions where games misuse the cpu for lighting and shadow effects, but let's not go there).
rcald2000
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I personally Twitch stream (non-partnered). What I wanted to add is that streaming (encoding) and gaming combined use a lot of resources. You should definitely opt for the i7-4790K + GTX 1060 6GB instead of the i5-4690K + GTX 1070. With that said, your i5-4690K can be sold used on Ebay for $160 - $200. Your GTX 960 can sell for $110 - $150. That additional $270 - $350 combined with your budget could definitely upgrade your potential GTX 1060 6GB to a GTX 1070 (and i7) along with a new quality power supply if needed.
EVGA GeForce GTX 1060 6GB SSC
$284.99 ($4.99 Shipping)
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814487275
EVGA GeForce GTX 1060 6GB SSC
$284.99 ($4.99 Shipping)
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814487275
Palewing
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If he could sell his old equipment as you suggest, then that would indeed give more options. But the 4790k is only about 15% more powerful in most cases (30% in a few). Overclocking his 4690k would be more beneficial.
The 5820k, which we both have, would be 50% more powerful for streaming outright, and the price of that compared to the 4790k is almost the same. Only problem is of course the motherboard and memory which will pretty much double, if not tripple, the price.
The 5820k, which we both have, would be 50% more powerful for streaming outright, and the price of that compared to the 4790k is almost the same. Only problem is of course the motherboard and memory which will pretty much double, if not tripple, the price.
Palewing
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I would like to mention that, in the end, what matters if you want to stream, is not whether or not the stream has a 30% better picture quality or not, but whether or not you reach out to your audience. And you do that by having an interesting stream, and that you stream with some sort of schedule.
You could invest in a GTX 1070 now to remove any GPU bottleneck, and then start saving up for a more stream-oriented CPU later (or you could have a dedicated stream PC, which can actually come out cheaper in the end).
You could invest in a GTX 1070 now to remove any GPU bottleneck, and then start saving up for a more stream-oriented CPU later (or you could have a dedicated stream PC, which can actually come out cheaper in the end).
I appreciate your help and your knowledge more than you will ever know. However considering I barely play overwatch I just said it as an example. I mainly play league of legends which while streaming at 1080p, 60fps, I can still achieve my 144fps for my monitor. ANd if my 960 can do that I think I'd rather invest in the i7 for now and buy a 1060 simply because they release bigger and badder graphics cards more frequently at lower costs than before. But like I said, thank you so much for your help.
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