[SOLVED] 10700K temps, Noctua everything. 1080p the issue? CPU bound?

[trofeer]

This is my first build.
Meshify S2
2x140mm Noctua NFA14 intake
1x140mm Noctua NFA14 exhaust
Noctua U14S cooler
Thermal Grizzly Kryonaut
ASUS ROG Maximus XII Hero
10700K
2070S FTW3 (3080 replacing)

So I’m concerned with temps and if they are normal, little warm, etc and if I need to go the AIO route(looked at kraken x/z63 or Arctic freezer II). My setup is very silent, love the looks, no maintenance or risk.

I play on 1080p for Max FPS (competitive FPS player and most demanding game right now is COD Warzone). Looking at going 1440p now with new gpu coming.
My CPU Package WHILE streaming is 69-77C peak. Ambient room temp is 76F. My GPU never breaks 63C.
Am I CPU bound? Would going 1440p free up strain on CPU and allow my 3080 to kick in? I know the CPU is rated for well over 80C but can anyone give me some educated input or reassurance on temps and ideas? Thank you!!

 

[Lutfij]

Welcome to the forums, newcomer!

So your ambient room temps are 24'ish Deg C. Those temps for a U14S seems fine. Are you on any overclock or are you on all AUTO in BIOS? I would get an AIO only to clean up the internals and for aesthetic reasons but if it were temps, I'd stick with the Noctua.

 

[Karadjgne]

Cpu is fps. Gpu is eye candy.
Cpu sets the limits of what fps is available to the gpu to use, regardless of resolution. So changing from 1080p to 4k won't affect what the cpu can or cannot do. That's all on the gpu and detail settings.

There are some cpu bound settings in the in-game settings, such as grass detail and viewing distance, which apply to Objects placements, which is all cpu. If an object isn't there then the cpu doesn't have to describe it or place it or mess with the game code instructions to do so. That's the downfall of canned settings like Low or Ultra, those settings get changed too, which changes cpu demand.

Lowering useless cpu settings has a large impact on temps, often extremely little to no visual affect to you. At 1080p you might not see the zit on the enemies nose or the detailing in his beard, but the cpu puts it there anyway, moving to 4k might allow visually seeing those details. Changing to Medium might erase those particular details, so at 1080p/1440p there's no visual difference, only a visual difference to 4k.

But you shot the enemy in half a second and moved on, never seeing the beard details nor the zit and could honestly care less about it.

So you can lower cpu temps if you wish by simply adjusting some in-game particular settings and alleviate cpu workload without affecting game play or realistic visual experiences.

Moving from 1080p to 1440p isn't going to change the cpu fps ability, it just puts more weight on the gpu, having to fill almost 1.8x as many pixels. The cpus workload will still be there, same game code and objects. Fps on screen will drop since the gpu has to work harder, unless the new gpu is powerful enough to compensate for that amount of pixel saturation. Being a smaller pixel, with more pixels, derails will be finer and clearer, so dropping some settings will relax cpu/gpu demands without much visual affect.

The difference between High and Ultra is visually usually very small, but to a cpu/gpu can be massive in workload, and the resultant temps.

 

[trofeer]

Welcome to the forums, newcomer!

So your ambient room temps are 24'ish Deg C. Those temps for a U14S seems fine. Are you on any overclock or are you on all AUTO in BIOS? I would get an AIO only to clean up the internals and for aesthetic reasons but if it were temps, I'd stick with the Noctua.

I’m on full factory settings no OC (may try minor down the road, unsure). I don’t have GPU in pc at the moment as it was sent out via Step Up Program but I am wondering if I do have MCE enabled in BIOS and that’s what’s maybe giving me a good 5°C+ in my temps? Should be disabled yes? Will check when I boot up in the coming weeks.

As far as aesthetics I’m on the fence on AIO vs air. Love the beefiness of Noctua. I was told that an AIO could actually negate a little cooling around the VRMs of the mobo since there isn’t an adjacent fan like an air cooler helping circulate. Seems marginal. If anything maybe I’d try the NHD15 but the U14S is right there with it. I have two more NFA14 fans coming maybe for an exhaust on top and intake on bottom that could help? Still staring at AIO as temps are my primary concern here.. Here’s my setup:

 

[trofeer]

Cpu is fps. Gpu is eye candy.
Cpu sets the limits of what fps is available to the gpu to use, regardless of resolution. So changing from 1080p to 4k won't affect what the cpu can or cannot do. That's all on the gpu and detail settings.

There are some cpu bound settings in the in-game settings, such as grass detail and viewing distance, which apply to Objects placements, which is all cpu. If an object isn't there then the cpu doesn't have to describe it or place it or mess with the game code instructions to do so. That's the downfall of canned settings like Low or Ultra, those settings get changed too, which changes cpu demand.

Lowering useless cpu settings has a large impact on temps, often extremely little to no visual affect to you. At 1080p you might not see the zit on the enemies nose or the detailing in his beard, but the cpu puts it there anyway, moving to 4k might allow visually seeing those details. Changing to Medium might erase those particular details, so at 1080p/1440p there's no visual difference, only a visual difference to 4k.

But you shot the enemy in half a second and moved on, never seeing the beard details nor the zit and could honestly care less about it.

So you can lower cpu temps if you wish by simply adjusting some in-game particular settings and alleviate cpu workload without affecting game play or realistic visual experiences.

Moving from 1080p to 1440p isn't going to change the cpu fps ability, it just puts more weight on the gpu, having to fill almost 1.8x as many pixels. The cpus workload will still be there, same game code and objects. Fps on screen will drop since the gpu has to work harder, unless the new gpu is powerful enough to compensate for that amount of pixel saturation. Being a smaller pixel, with more pixels, derails will be finer and clearer, so dropping some settings will relax cpu/gpu demands without much visual affect.

The difference between High and Ultra is visually usually very small, but to a cpu/gpu can be massive in workload, and the resultant temps.

My in game settings are all set to a combination of low, disabled, or none. This includes everything from render resolution distance, vsync, tesellation, reflections, etc. In fact the Warzone graphics settings shows my VRAM around 3800mb. Maybe it’s the game optimization but other players experience 70%+ cpu usage easily as well. I guess I can only wait and see what I experience when the 3080 comes... I feel I’m doing the card a disservice if I stick with 1080p but don’t want to jump to 1440p if I can’t hover 144fps to at least cover 144hz... I understand it’s a lot more detail to display but if I’m still on all low game settings will 1440p still affect my fps majorly? Some said 200fps now could be 100-130 on 1440

 

[Phaaze88]

Competitive fps players are almost always cpu + ram bound - ignoring things like game coding, which is beyond your control.
The gpu doesn't play a huge part in this - ok, the max fps is higher... correct me if I'm wrong, but for competitive: minimum > maximum?
The purpose of the settings used in competitive is to maximize the minimum fps. This is heavily dependent on cpu single core + ram frequency and timings.


Your cpu thermals are CURRENTLY fine. The 3080 will change that; much higher power consumption/output, which the cpu cooler also needs to cope with, not just the cpu alone.
The cpu isn't rated for over 80C. It has a thermal throttle limit of 100C, but obviously, that's not safe in the long run. Ideally, keep it below 80C for long term use.
Going to 1440p would allow you to get more out of the 3080, but then you're stomping on the very reason for competitive settings; your fps lows won't be as high if you make the move.

 

[trofeer]

Competitive fps players are almost always cpu + ram bound - ignoring things like game coding, which is beyond your control.
The gpu doesn't play a huge part in this - ok, the max fps is higher... correct me if I'm wrong, but for competitive: minimum > maximum?
The purpose of the settings used in competitive is to maximize the minimum fps. This is heavily dependent on cpu single core + ram frequency and timings.


Your cpu thermals are CURRENTLY fine. The 3080 will change that; much higher power consumption/output, which the cpu cooler also needs to cope with, not just the cpu alone.
The cpu isn't rated for over 80C. It has a thermal throttle limit of 100C, but obviously, that's not safe in the long run. Ideally, keep it below 80C for long term use.
Going to 1440p would allow you to get more out of the 3080, but then you're stomping on the very reason for competitive settings; your fps lows won't be as high if you make the move.

thats the one reason I am considering an AIO - to isolate the cpu temps so the 3080 doesn’t affect it and give the U14S something it may not keep up with, pushing my cpu to 80C on random spikes. Then again, if I have MCE enabled in BIOS or on auto, then I should be fine with the added headroom from the lower temps the CPU should have with that off. I know the factory voltages on those z490 boards are a little much.. in your opinion, would I see quite the drop with the 3080 added if I installed an AIO? Would a couple more case fans with my current setup help? I only have 3 total to begin with..

 

[Karadjgne]

MCE is multi core enhancement, which is totally inaccurate. What it does is basically lock the cores at high turbo settings. If your game only runs 6 cores out of 8, then the remaining 2 cores are at base/idle speeds and the resulting lack of power usage. If your game is running 8/8 cores, MCE won't make any difference, but if playing CSGO and only running 2/8 cores, those remaining 6 cores being basically unused vrs locked usage will see a drastic difference in temps.

So it's not just a 5° difference, it can easily be a 20-30° difference as MCE is an auto setting, you'd be running with auto voltages on those cores as well, which could well be north of 1.4v, adding even more unnecessary heat.

Most ppl see OC as nothing more than adding vcore to maximize Hz and consequently fps. It's a Lot more than that. A good OC can maximize fps while lowering temps, lowering voltages, lowering waste and still keeping the cpu cooler quieter than stock as a result. OC is All about fine tuning performance, not about ham-fisted forced performance.

An aio can seperate cpu in only one respect. Area of exhaust. Otherwise it's inside the case and subject to local ambient air exchange. If it's front mounted, it can affect airflow to the gpu, but has outside air source, if it's mounted as exhaust it can affect gpu exhaust patterns and the air source is saturated case air.

AIO's aren't a cure, just a different way of doing things, they have good points and not so good points.

Your temps are fine as is, you'll need to actually have the 3080 in place and see how it affects cpu cooling before making rash decisions based on assumed data.

 

[trofeer]

MCE is multi core enhancement, which is totally inaccurate. What it does is basically lock the cores at high turbo settings. If your game only runs 6 cores out of 8, then the remaining 2 cores are at base/idle speeds and the resulting lack of power usage. If your game is running 8/8 cores, MCE won't make any difference, but if playing CSGO and only running 2/8 cores, those remaining 6 cores being basically unused vrs locked usage will see a drastic difference in temps.

So it's not just a 5° difference, it can easily be a 20-30° difference as MCE is an auto setting, you'd be running with auto voltages on those cores as well, which could well be north of 1.4v, adding even more unnecessary heat.

Most ppl see OC as nothing more than adding vcore to maximize Hz and consequently fps. It's a Lot more than that. A good OC can maximize fps while lowering temps, lowering voltages, lowering waste and still keeping the cpu cooler quieter than stock as a result. OC is All about fine tuning performance, not about ham-fisted forced performance.

An aio can seperate cpu in only one respect. Area of exhaust. Otherwise it's inside the case and subject to local ambient air exchange. If it's front mounted, it can affect airflow to the gpu, but has outside air source, if it's mounted as exhaust it can affect gpu exhaust patterns and the air source is saturated case air.

AIO's aren't a cure, just a different way of doing things, they have good points and not so good points.

Your temps are fine as is, you'll need to actually have the 3080 in place and see how it affects cpu cooling before making rash decisions based on assumed data.

Thanks for this! I know I’m kind of putting the cart before the horse while my gpu is out haha. I’m tied up on how I could attack cooling but I’m 90% sure MCE is enabled and if so, and my temps drop well into 60s on my main loads of gaming and streaming then I’ll be more at ease. I’d love to get into OCing if I could in fact lower temps while also increasing performance. Do you happen to have any direct links on literature to go about this for a beginner? Just a minor OC or what would be beneficial for my uses of gaming.

 

[Phaaze88]

Pretty much what Karadjgne said.
Hybrid coolers are not a magical solution - especially not the 240mm that are far too popular these days... users of the latest i7s and i9s aren't going big enough with a 240mm.
If you find through testing, that things are getting toasty with the 3080, and you decide to try a hybrid... for the love of god, skip 240mm...

Do you happen to have any direct links on literature to go about this for a beginner?

How To - Intel CPU Temperature Guide

Update: March 12th, 2024 Preface The topic of processor temperatures can be very confusing. Conflicting opinions based on misconceptions concerning terminology, specifications and testing leaves users uncertain of how to properly check cooling performance. This Guide provides an understanding...

forums.tomshardware.com

 

[Karadjgne]

OC theory is all the same. Doesn't matter if it's Gigabyte or Asus or ASRock motherboard and bios, the theory behind changing the settings all the same, regardless of actual name changes.

So, particular literature isn't as important as literature in general. The best sources of info are found over on Asus ROG forums, overclockers.uk, gamersnexus etc. Once you get a general education, you'll find one thing leads to another. You start reading about exactly what MCE is, and you'll find reference to LLC. So you look that up and you'll find references to vcore, vid, vccio, vccsa etc. It's never ending.

But each little tidbit of info is important in its own right. If there's a mention of another website, follow it. Save for later perusal.

The only actual numbers to be fully aware of are limits. When someone says do Not put PLL to 1.9v or take SAagent to more than 1.2v, pay attention. If you don't know a limit, go find it, or many times it's even listed in your bios. White is ok, yellow is getting high, red is a warning of possible damage etc.

But you'll figure it out.

Start with Google how to OC 10th Gen Intel, and go from there.

Many first timers take a picture of bios screens, start at the top, and just start Googling exactly what those settings do, what they affect, what shouldn't be done unless using Liquid Nitrogen etc.

 

[trofeer]

Pretty much what Karadjgne said.
Hybrid coolers are not a magical solution - especially not the 240mm that are far too popular these days... users of the latest i7s and i9s aren't going big enough with a 240mm.
If you find through testing, that things are getting toasty with the 3080, and you decide to try a hybrid... for the love of god, skip 240mm...

How To - Intel CPU Temperature Guide

Update: March 12th, 2024 Preface The topic of processor temperatures can be very confusing. Conflicting opinions based on misconceptions concerning terminology, specifications and testing leaves users uncertain of how to properly check cooling performance. This Guide provides an understanding...

forums.tomshardware.com

just for clarification when you mention hybrid are you stating the kit for the 3080? The EVGA appears to be 240 if so.. if you’re speaking in regard for the CPU since you mentioned users of the 10th gen aren’t going big enough, 280 would be the lowest I’d go for sure

 

[Phaaze88]

just for clarification when you mention hybrid are you stating the kit for the 3080? The EVGA appears to be 240 if so.. if you’re speaking in regard for the CPU since you mentioned users of the 10th gen aren’t going big enough, 280 would be the lowest I’d go for sure

Oh no, that's what I call those liquid coolers in general, since they are... well, hybrids, but so are air coolers, and custom liquid... the ratio of air to liquid is different between them all.
The tower air coolers are like 90% air, 10% liquid(there's a little bit in the heatpipes).
The hybrids are literally 50/50.
Custom liquid is almost the complete opposite of tower air, 80/20, or something like that.

 

[trofeer]

installed and as much of a beginner as I am, the undervolting/OC/fan curving is frustrating. I'd love a simple walkthrough on what exactly to do - undervolting my GPU is a little bit of my priority as I touched 81C in-game just a mminute ago after an hour of playing. Ambient room temp is about 77F (Florida). Dont want to look at an AIO if I dont have to. To me, I tried undervolting to 950mV, maintaining the 2020MHz, didnt notice much of a diff since regardless, I am setting my fan speeds to 45% static otherwise my GPU on auto/aggressive curve will touch 80C+.

 

[Phaaze88]

Finally got it in eh? Lets see...

I feel 45% is too low a fan speed for a card like that under load; up to 400w total board power - likely more, if someone wants to bring transient spikes into the discussion.
45% is certainly fine when the gpu isn't in use...
The undervolt isn't doing too much probably due to not enough air being pushed through the card.

How's the cpu cooler holding up above that?

 

[trofeer]

Finally got it in eh? Lets see...

I feel 45% is too low a fan speed for a card like that under load; up to 400w total board power - likely more, if someone wants to bring transient spikes into the discussion.
45% is certainly fine when the gpu isn't in use...
The undervolt isn't doing too much probably due to not enough air being pushed through the card.

How's the cpu cooler holding up above that?

touched 81C earlier during a game, wasnt streaming either which I know is about 5-8% CPU usage according to OBS. I am bumping the static fans to 70% and at idle the GPU is +/- 29C and mid 60's in game. I just plugged in my 1440p 240hz and I'm almost getting better fps than at 1080p 240hz haha.

I downloaded Heaven 4.0 by UniEngine to run a benchmark will post that in a bit. What's a good CPU bench so I can finally conclude whether I am fine on air or needing to go liquid? And a tangent question to that, from any experience, is there a noticeable difference between Thermal Grizzly Kryonaut vs Conductonaut?

 

[Phaaze88]

I downloaded Heaven 4.0 by UniEngine to run a benchmark will post that in a bit.

Heaven is quite old(2009-2013) at this point. Your games might be a better benchmark than it. It doesn't even have DX12 support.

What's a good CPU bench so I can finally conclude whether I am fine on air or needing to go liquid?

-Prime 95, Small FFT, AVX off, AVX2 off, AVX-512 off, 15-20 minutes
-OCCT, Small Data Set, Normal Mode, Steady Load Type, SSE Instruction Set, 15-20 minutes
Either one would simulate a worse case scenario for the cooler. Passing grade if it can stay below 85C.

from any experience, is there a noticeable difference between Thermal Grizzly Kryonaut vs Conductonaut?

They serve different purposes, if you can call that a noticeable difference.
Conductonaut: cpu direct die mount, under the cpu IHS(delid), or non-aluminum gpu cooling applications
Kryonaut: everything else not mentioned from the above.

Kryonaut also 'burns out' quicker under higher temperatures; ~80C. That just means it needs to be reapplied more often under sustained high thermals.
Sadly, there's fakes of both of these products out in the wild. I've ordered 2 tubes of Conductonaut so far, and both came with certificates with codes on them to verify their validity.
I've also heard from word of mouth that Kryonaut can cause scratches on dies and IHS, but that's probably from the fakes.