[SOLVED] 11600k with MSI B560 Tomahawk

[JCarax]

Hey guys,

I did something crazy today and I went to a store and upgraded my PC. I was running a z270 gaming m7 with an OC'd 7700K for 5 years. I asked to get a 11600k and the guy at the store told me there was a discount on a the b560 and told me it is a good mobo. I went in and bought it, and after I got home and researched it a bit, I learned that B560's don't let CPU overclocking. Does that mean I have 0 headroom here for OC? How messed up I am? Should I press on and get a refund and a Z590 mobo ? Would it be worth it. I wasn't planning on doing a 5+ghz OC but still knowing that I had that option was nice.
What should I do ?
Thanks.

 

[Koekieezz]

Hey guys,

I did something crazy today and I went to a store and upgraded my PC. I was running a z270 gaming m7 with an OC'd 7700K for 5 years. I asked to get a 11600k and the guy at the store told me there was a discount on a the b560 and told me it is a good mobo. I went in and bought it, and after I got home and researched it a bit, I learned that B560's don't let CPU overclocking. Does that mean I have 0 headroom here for OC? How messed up I am? Should I press on and get a refund and a Z590 mobo ? Would it be worth it. I wasn't planning on doing a 5+ghz OC but still knowing that I had that option was nice.
What should I do ?
Thanks.

Well if you do want to push the cpu clock further, then z590 would be a better option for you.

 

[sizzling]

The overclocking potential is so small it’s not worth the cost of the motherboard and cooler required. It’s ok to do for a bit of fun but the % gained vs the cost is a poor return. Another way of looking at it, will you notice the difference between 150 or 160 fps?

 

[JCarax]

Well if you do want to push the cpu clock further, then z590 would be a better option for you.

Is it possible to do any amount of overclock on a msi b560 tomahawk ? I mean the bios settings are unlocked.

The overclocking potential is so small it’s not worth the cost of the motherboard and cooler required. It’s ok to do for a bit of fun but the % gained vs the cost is a poor return. Another way of looking at it, will you notice the difference between 150 or 160 fps?

At that high of an fps I don't think so.

 

[Koekieezz]

Is it possible to do any amount of overclock on a msi b560 tomahawk ? I mean the bios settings are unlocked.

At that high of an fps I don't think so.

Nope, you cant. The ram is the only thing could be adjustable freely.

 

[sizzling]

Is it possible to do any amount of overclock on a msi b560 tomahawk ? I mean the bios settings are unlocked.

At that high of an fps I don't think so.

Exactly, even without overclocking it’s a great gaming cpu, a few extra % performance really isn’t going to be noticeable.

 

[Nighthawk117]

Hey guys,

I did something crazy today and I went to a store and upgraded my PC. I was running a z270 gaming m7 with an OC'd 7700K for 5 years. I asked to get a 11600k and the guy at the store told me there was a discount on a the b560 and told me it is a good mobo. I went in and bought it, and after I got home and researched it a bit, I learned that B560's don't let CPU overclocking. Does that mean I have 0 headroom here for OC? How messed up I am? Should I press on and get a refund and a Z590 mobo ? Would it be worth it. I wasn't planning on doing a 5+ghz OC but still knowing that I had that option was nice.
What should I do ?
Thanks.

No it doesn't but it's pointless anyway. What board did you get and for what price? Also what country do you live in?
11th gen is only worth it if your trying to save money and you find it at a significant discount. Otherwise your better off with 12th gen or Ryzen 5000.

 

[punkncat]

^ I would mention that the 12th gen is still rife with issues based on being a new architecture as well as the growing pains related to the DDR 4/5 switch. I wouldn't and couldn't in good faith recommend going 12th gen, would actually take a wait and see next gen approach to it. With that aspect stated, the 11th gen is the culmination of a LONG line of + refresh and is absolutely the most power hungry, performance stretched LGA 1200 there is. There is no real OC headroom left and they pretty much come out of the box doing what they can when paired with a decent motherboard that has the proper power delivery along with good cooling.

The 5xxx series of Ryzen (and really much since 2xxx) is a BIOS/chipset quagmire. They are great performers but would warn to be certain that you do some deep dive research into every aspect of your componentry before making that jump. WAY too many issues with "my new build won't...." with those.

IMO, would either stick with the 11th gen and pick a higher end mobo, OR do a whole lot of back and forth checking to be sure you have a motherboard that will socket a 5xxx and operate, out of the box without having to jump through hoops.
12th gen is promising, and likely to get better as it goes, but for now just can't suggest it.

 

[Why_Me]

Hey guys,

I did something crazy today and I went to a store and upgraded my PC. I was running a z270 gaming m7 with an OC'd 7700K for 5 years. I asked to get a 11600k and the guy at the store told me there was a discount on a the b560 and told me it is a good mobo. I went in and bought it, and after I got home and researched it a bit, I learned that B560's don't let CPU overclocking. Does that mean I have 0 headroom here for OC? How messed up I am? Should I press on and get a refund and a Z590 mobo ? Would it be worth it. I wasn't planning on doing a 5+ghz OC but still knowing that I had that option was nice.
What should I do ?
Thanks.

I'd return it for a B660/B660m + i5 12400/12400F and a set of 3200mhz RAM if you don't already have a set. You can't OC that cpu but it kicks arse for the price at stock settings or if you choose to run it with the power limits turned off in the bios.

https://ark.intel.com/content/www/u...2400f-processor-18m-cache-up-to-4-40-ghz.html

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_P_AGv-DJbU

 

[JCarax]

No it doesn't but it's pointless anyway. What board did you get and for what price? Also what country do you live in?
11th gen is only worth it if your trying to save money and you find it at a significant discount. Otherwise your better off with 12th gen or Ryzen 5000.

I live in Turkey.
The 12th gen was too much of a price difference and we are at the verge of an economic crisis so I wanted to spend as little as possible.
So in our currency, the Mobo(msi b560 tomahawk) and 11600KF was 7k TRY.
If I went with 12600KF then price went up to 10K TRY because I also had to buy a new cooler(which cost around 1.400 TRY).
So the 3K difference I'd pay didn't justfy in my eyes the performance increase I would get. I look back and think it could have been a mistake but then like I said there were also economic reasons behind my decision making.

I'd return it for a B660/B660m + i5 12400/12400F and a set of 3200mhz RAM if you don't already have a set. You can't OC that cpu but it kicks arse for the price at stock settings or if you choose to run it with the power limits turned off in the bios.

https://ark.intel.com/content/www/u...2400f-processor-18m-cache-up-to-4-40-ghz.html

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_P_AGv-DJbU

I actually decided to stick with it because the 11600k goes up to 4.9ghz on turbo which was my OC on my 7700K. So I'm actually content with it. I know a better mobo would be a better investment, but then whenever you go to the next line of intel you have to replace the mobo anyways. Besides this mobo can go up to 5000mhz on ram speed so my next upgrade will be a new set of ram kit, around 3600-4000 mhz. Mine are 3000mhz corsair vengeance(I'm running it on XMP).

The 12400 series unfortunately aren't available here yet.

 

[Koekieezz]

I actually decided to stick with it because the 11600k goes up to 4.9ghz on turbo which was my OC on my 7700K.

4.9 short burst, is the max turbo boost (im not sure if it's single or multi) iirc, all core boost should be 4.6. But you have a K cpu, go with Z490 or 590, and crank them 5 all core.

Besides this mobo can go up to 5000mhz on ram speed so my next upgrade will be a new set of ram kit, around 3600-4000 mhz.

to run the best performance on 4000mhz+ might require VCCSA and VCCIO above 1.25 to stay on gear 1 (which will set by the XMP automatically), just stay below 1.3 if you could. otherwise you could.

on alderlake, only K skus that could adjust VCCSA and VDDQ manually, which required for gear 1 operation. Non K Skus cant adjust both voltages wether it be on a B or Z mobos. so, again, would be limited on gear 2 for 3600+, unless you win the lottery.

but if you're not into memory overclocking, 12th gen cpu any kind should be better performant compared to any 11th gen cpus on the same specs (except the e cores since it's alderlake thing).

 

[Nighthawk117]

I live in Turkey.
The 12th gen was too much of a price difference and we are at the verge of an economic crisis so I wanted to spend as little as possible.
So in our currency, the Mobo(msi b560 tomahawk) and 11600KF was 7k TRY.
If I went with 12600KF then price went up to 10K TRY because I also had to buy a new cooler(which cost around 1.400 TRY).
So the 3K difference I'd pay didn't justfy in my eyes the performance increase I would get. I look back and think it could have been a mistake but then like I said there were also economic reasons behind my decision making.



I actually decided to stick with it because the 11600k goes up to 4.9ghz on turbo which was my OC on my 7700K. So I'm actually content with it. I know a better mobo would be a better investment, but then whenever you go to the next line of intel you have to replace the mobo anyways. Besides this mobo can go up to 5000mhz on ram speed so my next upgrade will be a new set of ram kit, around 3600-4000 mhz. Mine are 3000mhz corsair vengeance(I'm running it on XMP).

The 12400 series unfortunately aren't available here yet.

That's fair enough, it's still a very capable CPU and you've chosen a really good board.

 

[JCarax]

4.9 short burst, is the max turbo boost (im not sure if it's single or multi) iirc, all core boost should be 4.6. But you have a K cpu, go with Z490 or 590, and crank them 5 all core.

I might be wrong but I thought the Turbo Enhancement option on the bios settings gets all cores up to 4.9ghz, which I have enabled.

to run the best performance on 4000mhz+ might require VCCSA and VCCIO above 1.25 to stay on gear 1 (which will set by the XMP automatically), just stay below 1.3 if you could. otherwise you could.

on alderlake, only K skus that could adjust VCCSA and VDDQ manually, which required for gear 1 operation. Non K Skus cant adjust both voltages wether it be on a B or Z mobos. so, again, would be limited on gear 2 for 3600+, unless you win the lottery.

but if you're not into memory overclocking, 12th gen cpu any kind should be better performant compared to any 11th gen cpus on the same specs (except the e cores since it's alderlake thing).

I'm actually not familiar with the terminology can you explain it in more simple terms here ? What would happen If I get a say 4000mhz ram, choose the xmp profile and try to run it with my current setup?

 

[Koekieezz]

I'm actually not familiar with the terminology can you explain it in more simple terms here ? What would happen If I get a say 4000mhz ram, choose the xmp profile and try to run it with my current setup?

Gear 1: Memory Controller/IMC is set to as what people called "1:1" or Running in sync with the Ram.
Gear 2: Memory Controller/IMC is set to 1/2 the real clock of the Ram.

For example, you do 4000mhz, which real clock is 2000Mhz since DDR stands for Double Data Rate, at gear 1, meaning that the IMC and the Ram are doing the same clock, 2000Mhz, which is pretty good for latency since it's already in sync and the data could pass the operations to the ram back and forth at the same time.

But say you do lost the lottery, you could only do Gear 2, your IMC is running half of the Ram speed, which is 1000, making it 2:1 (1000:2000 in ram), which will introduce the latency since the data in the ram will be buffered in the IMC. Think like you have 2 hands only, while you need to do 4 things separately with your hands, so you need to complete the 1st one, then the 2nd one.

As for the timings, it relates to how much the ram could be operated quicker in reads, write, copy, and the internal. CMIIW

VCCSA or CPU SA Voltage, it is the System Agent voltage, and a system agent is the one that houses the IMC, DMI, PCIe, and other stuffs (hence why it is called system agent). The max safe for daily use of this SA, is 1.3V.

VCCIO or CPU IO Voltage, is the voltage is used for feeding all input/output (I/O) pins of the CPU, except memory-related pins. The max safe for daily use of this IO Voltage, is 1.3v

Pretty much if you wanted to do Gear 1 which is 1:1 with the ram, at high speed, you need to increase both VCCSA and VCCIO to be able gain stability.

On AMD Ryzen, this VCCSA and IO is kind of merged into one, named SOC Voltage, and the max daily as per what i ever got to know, is 1.25v, with other voltage as VDDG CCD which is the voltage for the CCD (Core Complex Die), VDDG IOD which is the voltage for the I/O Die, have the max ammount of 1.1v. Pretty much you wont need to learn about this XD

You could learn about memory overclocking and tuning here, wish all the luck

 

[JCarax]

Gear 1: Memory Controller/IMC is set to as what people called "1:1" or Running in sync with the Ram.
Gear 2: Memory Controller/IMC is set to 1/2 the real clock of the Ram.

For example, you do 4000mhz, which real clock is 2000Mhz since DDR stands for Double Data Rate, at gear 1, meaning that the IMC and the Ram are doing the same clock, 2000Mhz, which is pretty good for latency since it's already in sync and the data could pass the operations to the ram back and forth at the same time.

But say you do lost the lottery, you could only do Gear 2, your IMC is running half of the Ram speed, which is 1000, making it 2:1 (1000:2000 in ram), which will introduce the latency since the data in the ram will be buffered in the IMC. Think like you have 2 hands only, while you need to do 4 things separately with your hands, so you need to complete the 1st one, then the 2nd one.

As for the timings, it relates to how much the ram could be operated quicker in reads, write, copy, and the internal. CMIIW

VCCSA or CPU SA Voltage, it is the System Agent voltage, and a system agent is the one that houses the IMC, DMI, PCIe, and other stuffs (hence why it is called system agent). The max safe for daily use of this SA, is 1.3V.

VCCIO or CPU IO Voltage, is the voltage is used for feeding all input/output (I/O) pins of the CPU, except memory-related pins. The max safe for daily use of this IO Voltage, is 1.3v

Pretty much if you wanted to do Gear 1 which is 1:1 with the ram, at high speed, you need to increase both VCCSA and VCCIO to be able gain stability.

On AMD Ryzen, this VCCSA and IO is kind of merged into one, named SOC Voltage, and the max daily as per what i ever got to know, is 1.25v, with other voltage as VDDG CCD which is the voltage for the CCD (Core Complex Die), VDDG IOD which is the voltage for the I/O Die, have the max ammount of 1.1v. Pretty much you wont need to learn about this XD

You could learn about memory overclocking and tuning here, wish all the luck

Thanks for the detailed info. I actually didn't know about Gear 2. The XMP profile for my corsair vengeance 3000mhz by default showed 1466, assuming that is running on gear 1.
I used to run in on 2666mhz(1333) with memory try it and I set the timings to 13 13 15 30 and it was stable.

Here is how HWM and CPUZ look like :

 

[Koekieezz]

Thanks for the detailed info. I actually didn't know about Gear 2. The XMP profile for my corsair vengeance 3000mhz by default showed 1466, assuming that is running on gear 1.
I used to run in on 2666mhz(1333) with memory try it and I set the timings to 13 13 15 30 and it was stable.

Here is how HWM and CPUZ look like :

yup, mem controller freq is doing 1:1 with dram freq
maybe you could set your BCLK to 100.05 if you could in the bios, to make it 1500.75.

 

[Joe07]

Does an i5-11600k run quite hot? I'm also not sure if it's better to go with the latest 12 gen or save some money and buy 11 gen instead.

 

[JCarax]

yup, mem controller freq is doing 1:1 with dram freq
maybe you could set your BCLK to 100.05 if you could in the bios, to make it 1500.75.

Does BCLK also effect core speed? And could there be a downside to tempering with BCLK, like in terms of system stability?
Also does it have an impact on voltage and temperatures?

Does an i5-11600k run quite hot? I'm also not sure if it's better to go with the latest 12 gen or save some money and buy 11 gen instead.

The idle temps and medium load temps are def lower than my old 7700K(which was OC'd to 4.9) with a corsair H110i with fan mode set to "quite."
I'd say the idle temps are below 30 degrees celcius, around 26-28 but I haven't tested the temps on load for a long time. I can do some testing tomorrow and post them here.
Ram is on XMP and turbo enhancement is enabled so the temps are probably higher than how they'd be out of the box.

I actually checked benchmark vids for the latest 12 gen and 12400 seems to be on par(or slightly better) than 11600k(stock) while gaming and flatout better on rendering or other off gaming activities. 12600K is much better obviously when it comes to rendering or photoshop or similar activities, but if we are solely talking about gaming the difference isn't that big. So if you can save substantial amount you can go with 11th gen. But if the difference isn't big then you might actually go with an 12600(no need for an unlocked chip imo).

 

[Koekieezz]

Does BCLK also effect core speed? And could there be a downside to tempering with BCLK, like in terms of system stability?
Also does it have an impact on voltage and temperatures?

yes, as for now it affects memory and cpu only, since DMI is decoupled from the bclk. also 100.05 is not much of an overclock, should be safe.

 

[Joe07]

Does BCLK also effect core speed? And could there be a downside to tempering with BCLK, like in terms of system stability?
Also does it have an impact on voltage and temperatures?


The idle temps and medium load temps are def lower than my old 7700K(which was OC'd to 4.9) with a corsair H110i with fan mode set to "quite."
I'd say the idle temps are below 30 degrees celcius, around 26-28 but I haven't tested the temps on load for a long time. I can do some testing tomorrow and post them here.
Ram is on XMP and turbo enhancement is enabled so the temps are probably higher than how they'd be out of the box.

I actually checked benchmark vids for the latest 12 gen and 12400 seems to be on par(or slightly better) than 11600k(stock) while gaming and flatout better on rendering or other off gaming activities. 12600K is much better obviously when it comes to rendering or photoshop or similar activities, but if we are solely talking about gaming the difference isn't that big. So if you can save substantial amount you can go with 11th gen. But if the difference isn't big then you might actually go with an 12600(no need for an unlocked chip imo).

Appreciate your insight, thank you