News 14th Gen Intel Core Desktop CPUs Don't Support Thunderbolt 5

[Admin]

Intel has corrected a press release that stated that 14th Core desktop processors supported Thunderbolt 5.

14th Gen Intel Core Desktop CPUs Don't Support Thunderbolt 5 : Read more

 

[HaninTH]

240 watts ain't bad, but 280 or an even 300 would be better, as the Z Book i'm on now REQUIRES a 280 watt supply to not constantly nag of running with an under powered power adapter/dock.

We need more powah, babeh!

Oh yeah, I also forgot to mention this i7-12800H is a furnace, idling at 130F in a 70F room with the entire device weighing in at near 5lbs. Insanity, what qualifies as an "ultrabook".

 

[DavidLejdar]

240 watts ain't bad, but 280 or an even 300 would be better, as the Z Book i'm on now REQUIRES a 280 watt supply to not constantly nag of running with an under powered power adapter/dock.

We need more powah, babeh!

Oh yeah, I also forgot to mention this i7-12800H is a furnace, idling at 130F in a 70F room with the entire device weighing in at near 5lbs. Insanity, what qualifies as an "ultrabook".

Yeah, 100W over USB-C (with 5A) isn't much for some laptops. When a laptop requires more than 100W, it usually comes with a power adapter supporting e.g. 150W or 200W though. And using that may not be as cool as charging with USB-C, but it is a viable solution.

Another issue can be the docking station though. Some do not even deliver 100W, or do not have that a high total to support also i.e. two screens hooked up, running at some 240 Hz. In such case, lowering the refresh rate can help, and it won't really show when using the laptop/screens for office work only.

As for high temp on idle CPU, you may want to check if disabling the Intel Boost will lower that. Depending on what applications you use, you may not want to miss out on that boost in some cases. But if the CPU is applying that Boost even when idle, I would check if disabling it lowers the idle temp, and if I really need it. And in case it is not needed, disabling it would also lower the power draw of the laptop, perhaps even so much that the previous issue solves itself.

 

[InvalidError]

240 watts ain't bad, but 280 or an even 300 would be better, as the Z Book i'm on now REQUIRES a 280 watt supply to not constantly nag of running with an under powered power adapter/dock.

I'd be nervous about having 600mV signal lines next to 48+V power. I think we really need a new, clean high-speed, high-power cable spec with optical data, optional 12/24/48V power at up to 10A. Then we shouldn't need any more new cables until we need 10+Tbps of bandwidth, at which point we may need multi-core connections to keep transceiver cost reasonable.

 

[bit_user]

Getting into machines with AMD chips is another bag of worms.

Gross... talk about mixing metaphors! I doubt you'd have worms in a bag - at least not intentionally. Bait shops sell them in hard containers (traditionally cans, I suppose), presumably so you don't unintentionally smash them and make a big mess.

Thunderbolt 5 has an evenly distributed 80 Gbps of bandwidth to transmit and receive data at the same rate. However, when there are higher display bandwidth needs, it can boost to 120 Gbps transmitting

Uh, so I guess you mean that it has symmetrical bandwidth ...until it doesn't.

 

[bit_user]

Oh yeah, I also forgot to mention this i7-12800H is a furnace, idling at 130F in a 70F room with the entire device weighing in at near 5lbs. Insanity, what qualifies as an "ultrabook".

True idle? Like 0% CPU usage, in Task Manager? Or just idle in that you're not running any foreground apps? My corporate laptop almost never truly idles. There's usually something chewing up some background cycles, it seems. Anyway, I wouldn't be too concerned about an idle temperature of 54 C. These CPUs are made to withstand a lot of heat. You could tweak your fan curves, but cooling it more than necessary will just waste battery power.

The bigger issue I have is that even when I set Windows to maximum power saving mode, I don't even get like 3 hours of charge out of a fairly new Dell Precision laptop, simply running a web browser or MS Teams. If Intel doesn't really improve on efficiency, they're probably going to lose more of the laptop segment. Right now, I would not buy an Intel laptop, if I really needed good battery life. I'm not one to go for a Mac, but I think a lot of people would.

As for high temp on idle CPU, you may want to check if disabling the Intel Boost will lower that.

In my opinion, the best option is to tweak the PL (Power Limit) settings, using a tool like ThrottleStop. However, I would only do this to combat fan noise or extend battery life. During the summer, I used it to reduce the amount of heat the laptop would pump into the room. CPU temperatures aren't necessarily a problem, by themselves.

the entire device weighing in at near 5lbs. Insanity, what qualifies as an "ultrabook".

I feel this. Mine definitely seems heavier than it should be.

 

[bit_user]

The big picture here however remains that people do not want to pay sales tax nor pay MSRP. Buying over the folding tables at the show also saves another 5% if paying with cash! Greetings from the man on the street!

I hate feeding the credit card companies for the minimal services they provide, but the protections of buying on credit are a safety net I wouldn't give up on any major purchase.

Just remember that whatever rewards or cash back you're getting from your credit card - that's essentially a portion of your own money that's being handed back to you, as a bribe to keep using it! If the payment card industry could be more effectively regulated, we wouldn't see such practices - but the sticker prices on merchandise would fall by more than you'd lose in rewards - ultimately saving you more money, in the end.

 

[purpleduggy]

still waiting for stingy motherboard manufacturers to even include thunderbolt 4/usb4 40Gbps, a $15 chip. they think usb 3 is still fast enough. even on a z790 or X670 they still do this. usb4/thunderbolt 4 should be everywhere.

 

[junglist724]

It's not like any desktop cpu supports thunderbolt of any kind. You always have to get an add in card with a thunderbolt controller or a motherboard with one integrated.

 

[InvalidError]

usb4/thunderbolt 4 should be everywhere.

If it adds $15 per port, I think there will be no shortage of people who think it isn't worth $15 extra for how little actual uses there are for it on the desktop where everything can have its own dedicated high-speed interface. It mostly makes sense on laptops where you are space-limited in the amount of USB, HDMI, DP, power, etc. ports you can have.
I don't own any 3.x-gen2 devices yet, 3.x-gen1 is fast enough for my external storage needs and I won't be bothering with 3.x-gen2 until the price premium over 3.x-gen1 is mostly gone. USB4-gen2/TB5 is a looong way down the line for me, possibly into "never going to bother" territory.

 

[purpleduggy]

It's not like any desktop cpu supports thunderbolt of any kind. You always have to get an add in card with a thunderbolt controller or a motherboard with one integrated.

its not a luxury connection. thunderbolt has been out for over a decade. the only way to get nvme speeds externally is to use thunderbolt/usb4

 

[purpleduggy]

If it adds $15 per port, I think there will be no shortage of people who think it isn't worth $15 extra for how little actual uses there are for it on the desktop where everything can have its own dedicated high-speed interface. It mostly makes sense on laptops where you are space-limited in the amount of USB, HDMI, DP, power, etc. ports you can have.
I don't own any 3.x-gen2 devices yet, 3.x-gen1 is fast enough for my external storage needs and I won't be bothering with 3.x-gen2 until the price premium over 3.x-gen1 is mostly gone. USB4-gen2/TB5 is a looong way down the line for me, possibly into "never going to bother" territory.

"by this logic you don't need usb3 either. just give you usb2 480mbps for life. pcie5? no you only need pcie1. ddr5? you can get by with ddr1. its all you need. that $15 might have you spend on something you don't need. In fact never upgrade ever because you only play indie emulators. keep your 20 year old pc because its all you need. in fact when you spend $2000 for a new rig, what you only need is 20 year old tech, so pay $2000 for the old tech. insist that its all you need. be happy with that. the latest cutting edge is unnecessary, because you don't need it."

Ok snap out of your miser's daydream, back to reality. Get a job where you can afford NVME Thunderbolt storage so you need it like the rest of us in the future that arent stuck in USB2 past. Reading and Writing to an external nvme drive over thunderbolt at 4GB/s is awesome. I have 15x of these NVMe Thunderbolt drives. Yes I need it. Thunderbolt/USB4 - 40Gbps should be standard on EVERY motherboard and device regardless of segment or price. why? 4GB/s SPEED.

 

[InvalidError]

Yes I need it. Thunderbolt/USB4 - 40Gbps should be standard on EVERY motherboard and device regardless of segment or price. why? 4GB/s SPEED.

You 'needing' it isn't a reason to impose it on everyone else who is tired of motherboard feature and price creep for things relatively few people actually need.

I bet less than 1% of PC users plan to own TB5 devices within the next five years. For the average PC user, it is a waste of silicon, power and money that needlessly increases the likelihood of a board failure for zero benefit.

 

[bit_user]

I bet less than 1% of PC users plan to own TB5 devices within the next five years. For the average PC user, it is a waste of silicon, power and money that needlessly increases the likelihood of a board failure for zero benefit.

Agreed. PC's were once virtually defined by their expandability. Need some new feature or capability? Just plug in another add-in card! Desktop boards do still have those PCIe slots for reasons, @purpleduggy - and modern CPUs give you lots of PCIe bandwidth to use. Not enough? Buy a workstation board.

Thunderbolt makes a lot more sense on mini-PCs, which both have fewer PCIe lanes and no space to plug in cards. However, since they tend to be built from laptop chips, they're also much more likely to have it builtin.

 

[jp7189]

True idle? Like 0% CPU usage, in Task Manager? Or just idle in that you're not running any foreground apps? My corporate laptop almost never truly idles. There's usually something chewing up some background cycles, it seems. Anyway, I wouldn't be too concerned about an idle temperature of 54 C. These CPUs are made to withstand a lot of heat. You could tweak your fan curves, but cooling it more than necessary will just waste battery power.

The bigger issue I have is that even when I set Windows to maximum power saving mode, I don't even get like 3 hours of charge out of a fairly new Dell Precision laptop, simply running a web browser or MS Teams. If Intel doesn't really improve on efficiency, they're probably going to lose more of the laptop segment. Right now, I would not buy an Intel laptop, if I really needed good battery life. I'm not one to go for a Mac, but I think a lot of people would.


In my opinion, the best option is to tweak the PL (Power Limit) settings, using a tool like ThrottleStop. However, I would only do this to combat fan noise or extend battery life. During the summer, I used it to reduce the amount of heat the laptop would pump into the room. CPU temperatures aren't necessarily a problem, by themselves.


I feel this. Mine definitely seems heavier than it should be.

Precisions can do a lot, but aren't known for battery life or light weight.. esp. if you use one with a dGPU. I have a 7680 with a A5000 and it looks pretty sleek, but it feels like it could be milled out of solid lead. I get about 3 hours of light office work on a charge, but all bets are off when pytorch fires up.

 

[InvalidError]

remove everything.
PCIe ports only.
by this logic motherboards should not have any built in usb ports. just remove them and buy a PCIe card.

They have already removed almost everything because USB2/3 has replaced most of them, is good enough to handle just about everything a normal person needs, is much cheaper and more efficient to implement integrated into the chipset. They are also reducing the number of SATA ports and PCIe slots in favor of more USB3/4 ports.

You want "PCIe only" but the trend from the last 25 years points towards USBx-only unless a clean-slate standard rises to replace it.