$1500 Corei5/Nvidia Gaming/Video Editing Machine

evan_s · Dec 4, 2009

APPROXIMATE PURCHASE DATE: Within a week if I can nail a system down. BUDGET RANGE: $1400

SYSTEM USAGE FROM MOST TO LEAST IMPORTANT: Video Editing and encoding, likely some HD editing, online gaming (Left 4 Dead 2, MW2, TF2) Audio Production

PARTS NOT REQUIRED: N/A

PREFERRED WEBSITE(S) FOR PARTS: Tigerdirect.com and Amazon.com COUNTRY OF ORIGIN: Trinidad & Tobago, it's right here

PARTS PREFERENCES: Intel and Nvidia, AOC for monitor? Advise me, please.

OVERCLOCKING: Maybe SLI OR CROSSFIRE: Maybe down the road.

MONITOR RESOLUTION: 1680x1050 is what I've grown used to.

ADDITIONAL COMMENTS: Cheaper the better since I have to ship this stuff, but will pay for quality.

I'm planning to build a machine for video editing (and gaming, shhh) and would like to get you guys' input. Basic idea is I'm going with a Corei5 processor for $200 and a GTX260, with an Asus mobo and 4GB RAM. Still need to find a proper case and power supply.

http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/searchtools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=5223821&csid=_22

http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=4369731&Sku=E145-0264

Looking at this case, saw someone suggest it on the forums here. http://www.amazon.com/Antec-Three-Hundred-External-Internal/dp/B000GQMHBI/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=electronics&qid=1259935863&sr=8-1

I need to be sure the case would fit the video card, which may be the GTX 260, and I'd need to be sure the power supply is enough. A bit iffy since I don't know about it. I like the price point of this case, but hope it's enough for my needs, like being able to have a decent number of internal drives? For any case suggestions, I'd like to have USB and Firewire in front, and wireless.

Any help/feedback would be appreciated, I'd like to buy in a week or so.

MadAdmiral · Dec 4, 2009

It'd help if you posted the specifics on the parts you've choose. We might be able to improve the entire build or direct to cheaper parts (which would help with what I'm suggesting next...).

nVidia is way behind with the newer ATI cards. I suggest trading the GTX260 for an HD 5850. It will cost about $100 for the upgrade, but the 5850 is the best card out that that doesn't cost as much as a budget build. I'd recommend this be the first change you make.

Second, (if you can get the cash) I'd step it up to an i7. You've got the budget for it. It will cost probably $150-200 more for the CPU, mobo and the 3rd stick of RAM, but the hyperthreading will help with some of the CPU tasks.

As for a case, the first two links didn't lead anywhere. The third one is a good case, but frankly is skimping on an already high end build. I'd recommend dropping the extra $30 on a HAF 922 (or some more for a HAF 932). Or if you're a fan of Antec, there's the 900 or 900 2. These aren't as big as the HAFs, but are still really good. The 902 is just a newer version of the 900 with better cable management system, a black interior and a couple of other small changes.

PSU: You can't go wrong with a Corsiar. 750W would be enough if/when you crossfiring/SLI.

evan_s · Dec 4, 2009

I realise the links were dead - I've fixed them, but all I really had was the CPU and Mobo, I guess I need suggestions for a full blown build. Aside from the CPU, Graphics card and Mobo I'd have just gone with whatever RAM was suggested on the site, Caviar Black 1TB, and no idea on case or monitor.

I'm afraid of ATI because I heard drivers for Radeons are hard to come by or are problematic or something. Truth be told I've always used Nvidia, hence wanting to go with what I know. Same for going the Intel route.

So, if you could, I guess help me with a build that is more specific parts-wise, because I am flip flopping on stuff. I was looking at i7, but thought in an effort to save I'd avoid it, but if you can help me out maybe I can go with it. Thanks!

PS. Cases, no idea really, just looking at cheapest and accessible ports in front, with good cooling to protect my equipment.

MadAdmiral · Dec 4, 2009

The newer ATIs aren't having any problems that I've heard of. Truth be told, ATI is wiping the floor with nVidia right now. The only reason to go with nVidia is if you use PhysX heavily.

As far as the i5/i7 goes, I agree with saving the cash. But chances are you'll have a lot of extra room once you put prices on everything. Typically, for budgets less than $1000 I recommend AMD. Budgets $1000-1200, I recommend i5 or AMD with huge GPUs. Anything above that should be looking at i7s, as there isn't much more you sink into the other parts.

Ditch the WD. The Samsung Spinpoint F3 1 TB is faster and cheaper.

For RAM, you should look for DDR3 1333 mhz with CAS Latency 7. G.Skill makes a very good set for $100 (at least that's at Newegg).

The Antec 300 is a great case, but is a little small for the bigger GPUs. Also, it has only a few fans. I really think its worth the little extra for the HAF 922, which is one of the best cases out there.

evan_s · Dec 4, 2009

Trying to put together something on Tigerdirect now, but check this out: http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/searchtools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=4660174&csid=_22

This is why i7 scary. Half my budget here! http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/searchtools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=4924238&csid=_22

MadAdmiral · Dec 4, 2009

That combo is pretty good. The case isn't one I'm familiar with, but NZXT is generally good. I'd prefer to get a different HDD, but Seagate is trustworthy. The PSU might be questionable, but again, that's a good deal. All you have to add is a GPU, optical and OS, which will cost ~$400-450.

On the second one, I thought you budget was $1400-1500. That's only a third, which isn't too bad for the main parts. The rest of the computer (with the 5850) should run about $900, keeping you under budget.

If that is half your budget (i.e. budget of $1000), then you should definitely go with the i5 and an HD 5770.

evan_s · Dec 5, 2009

Well okay I guess I should have said practically half my budget

I guess I am going to have to do individual builds with i5, i7, and the case you suggested, and compare. I can't find the 5850 on Tigerdirect though, and it's more expensive than the GTX 260 from what I see.

Also, the Nvidia cards have CUDA, which, I dunno what it does or anything, but it's mentioned in Photoshop in Premiere I think.
GTX 260, or anything else for that matter?

MadAdmiral · Dec 5, 2009

The only thing I know of that makes nVidia cards better than the new ATI cards is PhysX support. So if you play a lot of the few games that use it, then it might be worth it.

Yes, the 5850 is more expensive than the GTX260. However, it is also the best card out there that's realistically priced. Most builds should be spending the majority of the budget on the CPU, mobo and GPU. Once you get above the budget builds, the rest of the computer isn't costing that much.

I generally figure the RAM, optical, case, PSU and HDD will run $400-500, which isn't going to change for (almost) any build. That leaves your budget with nearly $1000 to spend on CPU, mobo and GPU. So if you buy a $300 card, that leaves you with a lot of cash left for excellent guts...

evan_s · Dec 5, 2009

Hmm, the 5850 - can't find on TigerDirect. Also, how do these look?

http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/searchtools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=5263783&csid=_34

http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=5394512&CatId=4149

raybob95 · Dec 5, 2009

evan_s :

I'd say a 5770 would fit in your budget range better. Or better yet, wait until NVIDIA's 300-series cards come out. (Q1 2010?)

Motherboard and CPU: Either

Gigabyte GA-EX58-UD4P or UD3R, and Intel Core i7 920

OR

Gigabyte GA-P55-UD5 and Core i7 870/ Core i5

specialk90 · Dec 5, 2009

What is more important to you: video editing or gaming?

I agree that the new ATI cards are great but only for gaming. What software do you use for video editing? If Premiere and/or After Effects, then nvidia is the way to go. Nvidia and Adobe have been working together to speed up Premiere from editing to encoding by using the GPU.

I will add more once I know what software is being used.

PS Video Production is my career so I should be able to add some insight.

evan_s · Dec 5, 2009

specialk90 :

Certainly will be premiere CS3/4, AE, Photoshop, Audition, etc. I've seen the mention of CUDA, but not sure if it's something automatic of if you have to configure it or what.

I'd like to make a living in video production eventually, so that's most important. I game on a 9600GT M in my laptop, playing TF2 and L4D2 just fine, so I am pretty sure anything higher will give exceptional gaming results.

Someone I know doing video and audio production for a living does so on a dual core, saying that it is fine for them, as where we live SD is still the main thing, but I do want to do HD, do my own music vids, etc at some point. I appreciate hearing from someone in the field for sure.

1898 · Dec 5, 2009

Let me google for you!

ATI Stream

ATI Stream technology is a set of advanced hardware and software technologies that enable AMD graphics processors (GPU), working in concert with the system’s central processor (CPU), to accelerate many applications beyond just graphics.

NVIDIA® CUDA™

NVIDIA® CUDA™ is a general purpose parallel computing architecture that leverages the parallel compute engine in NVIDIA graphics processing units (GPUs) to solve many complex computational problems in a fraction of the time required on a CPU

Finally, let's compare them.
Teh Benchmark.

If you plan on editing HD, you should think of getting a bigger monitor.

evan_s · Dec 5, 2009

Heh, well I didn't mention any monitor but having seen a 20 in person that would be a good starting point I guess.

specialk90 · Dec 5, 2009

If you can afford the i7 860, it is much faster than the i5 due to hyperthreading.

The 9800GT will work just fine for video and your games. I still use an 8800GT on my main editing machine. If you can, get the version with 1GB of vram as it helps with Photoshop and AE by allowing both programs to store more data while working on images/video.

If you want to plan for the future, more PCI Express slots are better and Intel will release a 6-core i9 next spring but only in the 1366 chips. Just something to think about.

Back to the video card. Over on fxguide.com, they have a recent video showcasing a desktop PC with a nivida card and an upcoming release of Premiere. I don't know if you are familiar with the R3D One camera but it can record in 4k resolution which is 4 times 1920x1080p. An i7 920 can't play a single 4k layer in real time within Premiere. But they had 5 4k layers playing in real time which requires some serious power. They alluded to the nvidia card providing the power and how Adobe and Nvidia have been working together to make rendering and encoding faster.

CUDA is not something to setup. It allows specially coded applications to use the GPU for certain tasks.

evan_s · Dec 6, 2009

Hmm, well I do want to game, and think I could do better than the desktop version of the card in my two laptops - any reason not to go GTX 260 or maybe 1 notch lower or something?

I am not familiar with the camera, but understand what you're saying. Was it with a beta of CS5 they used or something? I know Adobe is going 64 bit with their stuff from now on as well, not that it really adds to this discussion. I'm thinking I can go with the bare bones bundle with no video card and buy one separately, which would be i7? I'm looking to nail down final specs to buy on TigerDirect by tomorrow :bounce:

What are your PC specs, if you don't mind me doing, and what sort of work do you do? Just asking so maybe you could advise me as you did with ensuring whatever vid card has 1GB RAM. Thanks!

specialk90 · Dec 6, 2009

I am guessing your laptop is lower res than the monitor for this pc so something a bit more powerful will help with those extra pixels. However, the mobile versions have 60-70% of the power compared to their desktop version. Tomshardware complains about this all the time because it makes the mobile version sound more powerful than it really is. I am sure you can find some tests.
The main reason I like the 9800GT is it uses only 1 slot. You will understand better when you read what I have stuffed in my PC.

They didn't state what version of Premiere it was but Adobe's cycle is 18 months, which puts it being released next March or April (Sep 08 was CS4). Plus, like you said, Adobe has already stated that Premiere and AE will be 64 bit only starting in CS5 so Adobe must have most of the software finalized.

For that barebones deal, the OCZ ram is way ovepriced in their listing($410). For $153, there is this http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=4282860&CatId=4093
Patriot Viper 6GB.
Also, I wouldn't trust Ultra PSUs. Many people here love Corsair so maybe this for $105 http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=3438607&CatId=1483

My Home Editing PC:
i7 920 + Noctua NH-12UP heatsink/fan; 12GB OCZ Obsidian DDR3-1600 (only needed 1333 but this was on sale)
ASUS P6T (same as that barebones); PC Power & Cooling 750w
1 Intel X25 80GB SSD for OS and Apps (SICK Fast!)
1 3ware 9650SE-8LPML raid controller with: 2 150GB Raptors in Raid 0 for Premiere and AE Media Cache, 2 1TB Seagate 7200.12 in Raid 1 for personal data
1 Areca 1680ix-8 Raid controller with 4 1TB Seagate 7200.12 in Raid 10 for source video, stock video, photos, AE & Premiere project files and Cinema 4D files. (in an external 4 bay hot-swap case)
1 500GB Seagate 7200.11 for Page File and downloads
Lian-Li PC-V2100 http://www.lian-li.com/v2/en/product/product06.php?pr_index=137&cl_index=1&sc_index=38&ss_index=95&g=f
M-Audio FW410 external firewire Midi controller (4 inputs/10 outputs for audio)
Siig Expresscard to PCI-Express for offloading video from my EX1's SxS cards (70-80MB/s download speed vs 20MB/s for USB) http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811990002
EVGA 8800GT.

2 1TB 7200.12s in external Macally eSATA/USB cases(only $17 each) for dual backups of everything related to video production. And I also backup original footage to dual-layer DVDs because I have already had 2 video files become corrupted(both were original source footage and not copied from anywhere but were fine when I did the first rough edit)

A 20" Dell and a 24" Eizo CG243W ($2300 - for color accuracy/correction)

So, with the ASUS P6T, I have 2 PCI-E x16, 1 x4, 1 x1 and 2 PCI slots. The 8800GT and Areca 1680ix occupy the x16 slots, the 3ware sits in the x4 and the Siig Expresscard sits in the x1. The sad thing is that I need more PCI Express slots.

My Studio PC:
HP Z800 dual-Xeon 2.26GHz; Intel X25 80GB SSD, 4 7200.12s in Raid 10; PNY Quadro FX3800 with Elemental Accelerator; 24GB ram; BlackMagic UltraScopes (for checking color while setting up lights for greenscreen)
In no way do you need all this power for video editing, but sometimes we need the final product as quickly as possible.
The studio is still somewhat under construction but it will be mainly for greenscreen work.

I use Production CS4, Cinema 4D and Nuke 5 (like AE but more powerful) and Propellerhead's Reason for some fun with audio (still learning Reason).

Looking back at what I just wrote, it is a bit long-winded. Sorry about that.

At the moment, I mainly do events for a large city and some political events to pay the bills. With the studio, we are/will produce shows for a gov't access channel, a public access channel and the web. Everything in the studio from greenscreen to lights are meant to be portable so I can do more commercials.

evan_s · Dec 6, 2009

specialk90 · Dec 6, 2009

Optical drive - do you need "LabelFlash" and IDE? The Sata drive is only $28 http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=4803048&CatId=89

Yes, the i7 comes with a fan.

I would get Win 7 Pro because there is a lot of software and hardware for video that is only certified for Pro and Ultimate. Also, Premium limits max ram to 16GB. Oh yeah, and XP Mode is only available for Pro and Ultimate. Believe me, you want as little software on the same OS as video apps. Ask a Pro who uses his computer all day and has deadlines and they will almost always say to put the bare minimum software including no anti-virus and not connected to the internet except for updates. I have had minor issues with Premiere and other programs but I know people who have had major problems. I use XP Mode, which is a virtual machine running XP, for downloading.

If your budget allows, up it to 12GB of ram. I have noticed that ram prices have risen 25% in the last few months, which means they could keep rising. Plus, it does help with Photoshop, AE and Premiere. Even though Premiere and AE CS4 are not 64bit native apps, they can still use more than 3GB of ram. Both create multiple processes and each can use 3GB a piece. Also, using Ram Preview in Premiere and AE is much nicer with more ram.

For a LCD, can you order from Dell? Their 22" Ultrasharp is inexpensive and great quality.

evan_s · Dec 7, 2009

Ahhhhhh! Yes, the same person I spoke with who says a dual core is just fine for them uses their machine just for editing with hardly anything running. You're telling me not to use my machine to all my Steam gaming on it....that hardware...with no Left 4 Dead 2...seems inhamane! ha

That drive seems good enough, sure, but doesn't mention DL.

Do you game at all? If so, what games? Could I realistically run XP or Vista in VM just for gaming and downloading/browsing, maybe allocate 3 of the 6GB, and be really happy with that?

I did want to get a Dell, I see people speaking well of the S2409W and wanted to get that 4 incher at some point in time maybe. But this one is a good start maybe? http://accessories.us.dell.com/sna/products/Displays/productdetail.aspx?c=us&l=en&s=dhs&cs=19&sku=320-7438

And Ok, Win 7 pro 64 bit instead. Thanks, again, for all your help.

So in short, don't need a different fan, change the optical drive, and Dell Monitor? Everything else looking beloved patriot Dory? And yeah RAM preview is boss.

Did I mention I am a student looking to not rely on school machines for my projects and want to start pursuing freelance/make my own video productions?

But still....no gaming on my "work" machine?

specialk90 · Dec 7, 2009

Yes, you can still game on it ...but you must limit it to just 30 minutes at a time

There are sooooo many programs for windows that aren't well coded (if you think about it, this is why Macs have a better reputation since so few programs can run on it). You won't be able to run 3D intensive apps in the XP VM but I was thinking along the lines of download managers. Browsing isn't that big of a deal if you at least use Firefox with it locked down using addons. And you won't need to allocate but 512MB-1GB of ram to the XP VM.

When I upgraded to Win 7, I had been having major problems which ended up being a single bad ram stick. But I made a backup image right after installation, then again after Adobe CS4 and then again after Cinema 4D, Nuke, Office and all plugins for Adobe. This way I can go back in case something doesn't work properly.

About the Dell LCD: I don't know much about it but make sure its vertical viewing isn't only a few degrees like laptop LCDs. It depends mostly on the type of panel with TN being the lowest and then PVA/MVA and then IPS.

When you get it all setup, adjust settings through nvidia's control panel while using color bars. Here is a link for doing so: http://www.videouniversity.com/articles/color-bars-and-how-to-use-em
This is a must for video.

Another must is running memtest86 overnight http://www.memtest.org/ immediately after setup. The built in windows memory test is junk.

evan_s · Dec 7, 2009

Oh boy, the panel I linked to is TN according to the specs. http://accessories.us.dell.com/sna/products/Displays/productdetail.aspx?c=us&l=en&s=dhs&cs=19&sku=320-7438

I think I should be OK gaming and editing on the same machine...I hope...

But yeah, all other hardware seems cool? Then I can look at ordering by Tuesday I'm guessing.

specialk90 · Dec 7, 2009

Look at the reviews for the monitor. I had looked at their newer 20" Ultrasharp but after reading the reviews, I noticed it used a TN panel and there were many complaints about vertical viewing. Maybe google the model # and vertical viewing.

evan_s · Dec 7, 2009

In doing what you do, how much of a problem/difference is this issue to you?

specialk90 · Dec 7, 2009

The thing with vertical angles is that moving your head up and down an inch can cause the colors and contrast to shift. If you have ever used a laptop, then you have seen this as it is very prevalent. With a desktop LCD, it won't be as much of a problem.

My personal experience is after editing for several hours, my posture isn't the same as it was earlier in the day, so having a good viewing angle is important.

$1500 Corei5/Nvidia Gaming/Video Editing Machine

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