"1500 foot outdoor wireless connection"

[skindaddy]

i am trying to buy a verizon homefusion setup , and would like to be able to send wifi to my barn about 1500 ft away there will be a handful of trees in the way, which i've read that's fine if i go with 2 antennas pointed at each other. i am having trouble with what i will need and some of the process. some on here had a few sugestions. im still lost though.

should i get a dual band router?
do you know which antenna's i should use, i only want to do this once and get good working stuff.
maybe this not sure if 5ghz is way to go
http://www.cyberguys.com/product-details/?productid=83338&rH=299
also newegg recommended (http://www.gohawking.com/store/product_info.php?cPath=1...) there building to building kit , but it says one is a repeater, others have said not to repeat.
i think i should use all N series?
Help

 

[RealBeast]

I would use Engenius (like the ENH200) or the Ubiquiti over the Hawkings products, but I will wait with interest for one of our most knowledgeable posters, bill001g, to provide the best solution.

HERE is a picture of what you want to accomplish, although not with the specific products as it is an old shot.

If you don't have any network equipment yet and you need routers, I would use ASUS RT-N56U routers, as they are quite good and the price has come down to very reasonable levels especially when on sale.

 

[bill001g]

being put on the spot I see.

As realbeast indicated you want to use 2 outdoor units that have all the electronics and antenna in one. This appears to your network as a ethernet cable but is called a wireless bridge. You would then connect whatever you like on each end to meet your needs. It is a little more expensive to install this way but it is the most solid and reliable design. There are units that use a outdoor radio and then attempt to repeat the signal into the second building. The better units use one radio for the backhaul and a second to talk to the PC. Price wise I find it cheaper to build by own with a separate point to point wireless and then a AP in the far building. This site is very interesting to look through for different ideas. Their prices on some things is a little high but very good on others. http://www.wlanparts.com/


I also like both those product lines and have used both. I tend to use the ubquiti airgrid because it is a little cheaper but it is a huge monster.... about the size of a home satellite dish. Both product claim they can go may miles but I wouldn't trust that. They will work very well at the distance you talk about.

The optimum location would be above the trees. The lower the frequency the better it goes though trees. 900mhz is the one they recommend when their are trees but I have not used it when there were trees but it also means 2.4g will be better then 5g for your application.

I would still attempt to mount it on top of the buildings. Your distance is short so things like the curve of the earth will not have much impact but it still does. Your goal is to avoid as much reflection from the ground as possible.

I wish I could say it would work I have put them in where there are trees but I have always been able to see the antenna from each end the trees were just off the center of the beam. When you figure a single sheet of aluminum foil can easily block your signal at those distances its hard to be sure what leaves on trees will do.

 

[skindaddy]

i wish i could get above trees but not really possible,there at least 60ft, and the barn is a down hill slightly the whole way, maybe 20-30ft lower all together which makes the trees more difficult.
the AP in the other building is just another router right?
wont i need a router with a removable antenna?
also what requirement/or how do i know the homefusion will use the dual band?
sorry for all the questions fellas
realbeast that pic for some reason on my computer is blurry, cannot see.

i will look into this info guys thanks, an other ideas or reads would be great, i;m not great with this stuff, but great with hands if i got a plan

 

[bill001g]

That is unfortunate the photo answers a number of your questions. Try a google image search for "point to point wireless bridge kit"

The way you are thinking of doing it where you hook stupid antenna to your router/ap directly is the old way to do it. You would buy directional antenna on the end of a long microwave rated coax and directly attach it to the devices. The key problems with this method is the coax is very expensive..if you use cheap stuff you lose a lot of signal, most routers/ap no longer have external antenna you can replace, and when you mess with the antenna on current routers you destroy their ability to do MIMO which is what give the speeds above 150m.

So lets pretend you can run a ethernet cable between your verizon router and a new AP in the barn. You would connect the wire to a lan port on the router and connect the other end to a AP very simple.

The new method the "antenna" ie wireless bridge contains the electronic directly internal to the structure so there is no microwave coax and uses ethernet cables to connect back to the network. When you look at the cost of the antenna and the cost of the coax compared to buying a unit with it all in one it is much cheaper to buy the all in one units. They do sell special outdoor ethernet cable but normally just use indoor stuff and assume I may have to replace it after a couple of years.

So what you have now is your verizon device lan port-ethernet-wireless bridge-------wireless bridge--ethernet--AP

To your router/ap the connection between the buildings looks like a ethernet cable. This means you can use whatever you want,dual band single band, 802.11n,ac,g and the ends do not have to be the same. Pretty much anything that runs ethernet which is everything will work.

A general comment on the homefusion. Be very careful not to confuse the wireless signal this uses and the stuff discussed in the above. This is a LTE broadband connection. LTE is something completely different than home wireless it does not even run on the same frequencies. (it runs on 700mhz in most areas which is why it penetrates well) You may need outdoor antenna to make that work...or you may need to place the router in a window. If you are in a strong signal coverage area for verizon the LTE is very fast. I would borrow a LTE verizon phone from someone and use it in your house before you go a lot of effort setting all this stuff up. There so called coverage maps are for outdoor reception and they include areas that barely get converge even outdoors.

 

[skindaddy]

hey thanks bill, cn you explain a little about the verizon comment not quite getting that? the unit from what i seen looks like an old police car light(bubble) they had on the roofs.
anyway thats mounted outside then comes inside to a router or modem not sure which. with it being LTE will i still be able to send it like this?
can you help me pick out antenna's now im confused which mhz?
im sorry im not smart with this stuff!

 

[bill001g]

Sorry maybe I should not have added that part.

Don't mess with the LTE part use whatever the provider recommends. You can ignore how exactly you get the internet into the building just assume the ISP knows what they are doing...don't laugh. The connection between the buildings is identical no matter how you get your internet.

 

[skindaddy]

one last clarification
i should use 2pcs of ASUS RT-n56u routers
and 2 pcs of ubiquiti airgridM?
this is the airgrid i think you were refering to.
unless you know of a better antenna to blast through trees.
and i want to stay with 2.4ghz right.

what is all this stuff about DD-WRT routers? will i need this for my particular setup

 

[RealBeast]

Those are great routers with nice range but AFAIK do not support dd-wrt like the N66U models, although I don't see that you would need dd-wrt firmware for your setup.

 

[skindaddy]

thanks realbeast, i can see this coming together soon!


bill001g
does that airgrid M have the 2 radios like you were talking bill001g

 

[RealBeast]

Bill001g was talking about the Airgrid M2 (the 2.4GHz version -- and not the M5 which is the 5GHz version that does not penetrate stuff as well) and I am guessing that he likes the 20dBi model with the 17x24 inch grid (since he mentioned the large size -- the 16dBi antenna is smaller, but with this stuff bigger is usually better). THIS would be the one.

The picture that you should look at to understand the connections is also on THIS page with the label "View Point to Point Wireless Installation Diagram Below." It shows the router, PoE injector and outdoor AP on each end.

 

[bill001g]

Yup those are the ones. Unless the size is a huge problem I always spend the extra $10 for the extra 4db gain. These are really easy to install they have a led indicator right on the side of the unit that show how strong a signal it gets. It is really helpful getting it aligned when you are on the top of a tall ladder.

 

[RealBeast]

bill001g, thanks. I am sure that skindaddy appreciates your advice for his build, but I always enjoy reading your answers to learn myself so I took it upon myself to select your solution. RB

 

[skindaddy]

all answers were greatly appreciated thank you fellas, it might be a little while before this comes together completely, but i will for sure let you guys know how it turns out.
thumbs up!