2 builds under 3k, which one is the winner

[caesparktom]

after talk with mjmjpfaff about my build here, I have two contenders. Quick votes & thoughtful advice both welcome. Hoping to buy this thing this week.

Approximate Purchase Date: this week
Budget Range: 3000 usd
System Usage from Most to Least Important: Rhino, Autocad, CS5
Parts Not Required: -
Preferred Website(s) for Parts: -
Country of Origin: China
Parts Preferences: see parts list below
Overclocking: no
SLI or Crossfire: no
Monitor Resolution: 1920x1080
Additional Comments: workstation

OPTION 1:
MOBO: SUPERMICRO MBD-X8DAi
CPU: 2x Xeon E5620
GPU: NVidia Quadro 2000
RAM: Mushkin Enhanced Blackline 12GB (3 x 4GB)
SSD: Crucial C300（128GB）
HDD: WD Caviar Black 1TB
DVD: Sony Optiarc AD-7240S
LCD: LG IPS231P-BN Black 23"
Key: K120(Logitech)
Mouse: M90(Logitech)
Case: Corsair 700D
PSU: Corsair HX750

OPTION 2:
MOBO: ASUS P8P67 WS REVOLUTION
CPU: i7 2600k
GPU: NVidia Quadro 2000
RAM: corsair vengeance ddr3 1600 12gb(3x4gb)
SSD: Crucial C300（128GB）
HDD: SAMSUNG Spinpoint F3 HD103SJ 1TB
DVD: Sony Optiarc AD-7240S
LCD: ASUS ProArt Series PA246Q Black 24.1"
Key: K120(Logitech)
Mouse: M90(Logitech)
Case: Corsair 700D
PSU: Corsair HX750

*It was also suggested that i give up the quadro 2000 for mainstrem gaming graphics card like a 560 ti or 570, but instead i upgraded my monitor.

 

[Proximon]

Core temps in the 50s are completely acceptable when running 8 threads of Prime95.

Those temps are quite similar to what I get, and I have some advanced water cooling with an overclock to 4.4Ghz. (two radiators, 11 fans, etc.)

Here is the checklist you should be following:
http://www.tomshardware.com/forum/261145-31-perform-steps-posting-boot-video-problems

But if the situation has improved so much it may not be relevant.

Did you do a memtest?
Did you run GPU-Z to check for GPU temps?
Will it crash during Furmark?

Why doesn't my signature ever display when I need it?

Fine, I'll just post it manually

My Guide to choosing parts
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[caesparktom]

Started new thread: Unstable new build failing prime95 blend test

Core temps in the 50s are completely acceptable when running 8 threads of Prime95.

Those temps are quite similar to what I get, and I have some advanced water cooling with an overclock to 4.4Ghz. (two radiators, 11 fans, etc.)

acceptable even if I'm not overclocking?

Did you do a memtest?
Did you run GPU-Z to check for GPU temps?
Will it crash during Furmark?

I will run memtest & furmark now. I did however run hwmonitor and gpu temps were about 52C during blend test.

thanks

 

[caesparktom]

Let me say I am really not an expert at trouble-shooting something like this. But that being said, why don't you change out your RAM and RMA it. It is likely covered by a lifetime warranty. Also, RAM is fairly cheap on NewEgg and so you could get another set of 2 x 4 GB 1866 for $60 - $75. It seems like your RAM is too temperamental. I had absolutely no problems with mine and did not even have to set it. It automatically went the DDR 1600 which is its spec. I get that you don't have extra parts to swap out, but this is one that has a lifetime warranty and it is fairly cheap.

good idea. Will run memtest86, hopefully it fails. but either way i will get some new ram and see if it solves problem. Do you think i should get same ram or try different freq/timings.

Also another thought. If the H60 is not getting the job done you should email Corsair and ask them to trade for the H100. The H100 is the only cooler to date that outperforms the D-14 that is not a custom water cooler (or noisy as a jet plane air cooler). Corsair would probably swap out the H60 - they are amazing. The H100 is expensive but it is the baddest cooler on the planet right now. Keep in mind that it can be noisy. Still the H60 should be getting the job done - it is a very good cooler.

tempting. H80 looks good too. Especially, if i account for the added cost of buy two new fans for my H60.

The Corsair 650D is a great case for cooling, but if your GPU is not getting good air circulation it could overheat. Because your system performs fine for a long time and then fails, this is something to look at. I don't think heat is a problem with your CPU or your motherboard. A hot video card or a bad video card WILL cause a BSOD regularly.

Proximon suggested Furmark to test gpu stability. I will let you know how it does. I did run hwmonitor and gpu temps were about 52 during blend test.

As I mentioned before, the motherboard is most often the problem with the system builds that I have seen that had problems. I am naturally suspicious of mobos now. Note I do not think that heat is the problem for the mobo. Make sure that your mobo is not defective. I would say it is the cause in about 70% of the cases I have been involved with. Changing out the mobo cured everything. I am a little prejudiced because my first mobo was bad in my build.

i really don't want to believe that the mobo is bad. Got it from newegg while i was in states, so almost impossible for me to return from beijing--nasty fees at customs for shipping this kind of thing. How would i make sure the mobo is defenctive without swapping it out? Did your problems with mobo manifest as moderate instability?

You also may want to start a new thread and get other posters who are more experience in trouble-shooting new builds involve.

Started new thread: Unstable new build failing prime95 blend test

thanks

 

[flong]

Let me say I am really not an expert at trouble-shooting something like this. But that being said, why don't you change out your RAM and RMA it. It is likely covered by a lifetime warranty. Also, RAM is fairly cheap on NewEgg and so you could get another set of 2 x 4 GB 1866 for $60 - $75. It seems like your RAM is too temperamental. I had absolutely no problems with mine and did not even have to set it. It automatically went the DDR 1600 which is its spec. I get that you don't have extra parts to swap out, but this is one that has a lifetime warranty and it is fairly cheap.

good idea. Will run memtest86, hopefully it fails. but either way i will get some new ram and see if it solves problem. Do you think i should get same ram or try different freq/timings.

Also another thought. If the H60 is not getting the job done you should email Corsair and ask them to trade for the H100. The H100 is the only cooler to date that outperforms the D-14 that is not a custom water cooler (or noisy as a jet plane air cooler). Corsair would probably swap out the H60 - they are amazing. The H100 is expensive but it is the baddest cooler on the planet right now. Keep in mind that it can be noisy. Still the H60 should be getting the job done - it is a very good cooler.

tempting. H80 looks good too. Especially, if i account for the added cost of buy two new fans for my H60.

The Corsair 650D is a great case for cooling, but if your GPU is not getting good air circulation it could overheat. Because your system performs fine for a long time and then fails, this is something to look at. I don't think heat is a problem with your CPU or your motherboard. A hot video card or a bad video card WILL cause a BSOD regularly.

Proximon suggested Furmark to test gpu stability. I will let you know how it does. I did run hwmonitor and gpu temps were about 52 during blend test.

As I mentioned before, the motherboard is most often the problem with the system builds that I have seen that had problems. I am naturally suspicious of mobos now. Note I do not think that heat is the problem for the mobo. Make sure that your mobo is not defective. I would say it is the cause in about 70% of the cases I have been involved with. Changing out the mobo cured everything. I am a little prejudiced because my first mobo was bad in my build.

i really don't want to believe that the mobo is bad. Got it from newegg while i was in states, so almost impossible for me to return from beijing--nasty fees at customs for shipping this kind of thing. How would i make sure the mobo is defenctive without swapping it out? Did your problems with mobo manifest as moderate instability?

You also may want to start a new thread and get other posters who are more experience in trouble-shooting new builds involve.

Started new thread: Unstable new build failing prime95 blend test

thanks

You are welcome, I wish you the best of luck. I respect Proximon a lot - he is much more knowledgeable about trouble shooting this type of issue than I am (I'm not even in the same league ha,ha).

Let us know when you get it fixed.

For your RAM, everyone is recommending Gskill or Corsair and I am not an expert (I know your probably tired or hearing that). I have Gskill and it is working great. The CL9 or CL 8 1866 RAM is the pricing sweet spot vs performance.

 

[caesparktom]

Core temps in the 50s are completely acceptable when running 8 threads of Prime95.

Those temps are quite similar to what I get, and I have some advanced water cooling with an overclock to 4.4Ghz. (two radiators, 11 fans, etc.)

Here is the checklist you should be following:
http://www.tomshardware.com/forum/261145-31-perform-steps-posting-boot-video-problems

But if the situation has improved so much it may not be relevant.

Did you do a memtest?
Did you run GPU-Z to check for GPU temps?
Will it crash during Furmark?

ran memtest for 2 passes with no errors. Not sure if that means the memory is good or just that the memory has not yet been proven to be bad. Should i run few more passes? sadams04 suggested I turn ram freq down to 1333 and re-run prime95. If i understand his reasoning, if system stabilizes i can conclude the ram is faulty and replace it. If it doesn't improve stability, the mb may be the problem.

Also, i ran furmark burn test twice (xtreme burn-in+Post FX), 10 minutes each time. GPU temps leveled at 91C both times and computer didn't crash.

Should i try swapping out memory?

btw, i did go through the checklist you mentioned.

thanks for help

 

[Proximon]

Yes your temps are OK, even the Quaddro load temp of 91C, according to one post I found from a PNY tech.

Have you tried nudging up your CPU voltage slightly? I had to do so on my system, a P8p67 Pro and i7 2600K.

Just a small nudge straightened out a similar instability. I think it was about .02V. The auto voltage setting was just not cutting it.

 

[caesparktom]

Yes your temps are OK, even the Quaddro load temp of 91C, according to one post I found from a PNY tech.

Have you tried nudging up your CPU voltage slightly? I had to do so on my system, a P8p67 Pro and i7 2600K.

Just a small nudge straightened out a similar instability. I think it was about .02V. The auto voltage setting was just not cutting it.

I'll try that, but just to be very clear. You had to nudge your voltage before overclocking to stabilize sys? And that isn't an indication of a weak component somewhere?

 

[Proximon]

Yes before, but not in the way you think. I left the actual control on auto and adjusted the OFFSET. So, it's always +0.010 what the board otherwise thinks it should be.

The two settings are

CPU voltage -------- Offset mode
CPU Offset Voltage --- 0.010

And no, I consider it just an error in programming or perhaps a minor CPU variation.

 

[caesparktom]

Stepped cpu offset voltage by .01 and re-ran p95. This time it produced an single rounding error after 3.5 hrs but did not crash. Stepped offset V up to .02 and am running again. btw, hwmonitor reads 1.24V presently (test running) and 1V at idle.

 

[flong]

Yes before, but not in the way you think. I left the actual control on auto and adjusted the OFFSET. So, it's always +0.010 what the board otherwise thinks it should be.

The two settings are

CPU voltage -------- Offset mode
CPU Offset Voltage --- 0.010

And no, I consider it just an error in programming or perhaps a minor CPU variation.

Thanks for stepping in and helping - this is way out of my league

 

[Proximon]

Stepped cpu offset voltage by .01 and re-ran p95. This time it produced an single rounding error after 3.5 hrs but did not crash. Stepped offset V up to .02 and am running again. btw, hwmonitor reads 1.24V presently (test running) and 1V at idle.

Yep no guarantees here, and don't get carried away with this setting. It will either fix the problem or not. If you do not see improvement with this .02 setting revert to default settings and move on.

If we don't get anywhere soon I want to suggest a new thread with less text to read. Just the facts and formatted in a way that is easy to assimilate... like my troubleshooting guide

 

[Proximon]

Thanks for stepping in and helping - this is way out of my league

Naw it's just my personal experience with Asus SB boards and my research into overclocking. I assure you I'm nearing the end of ideas myself.

 

[caesparktom]

blend test with .02 cpu core voltage offset ran for four hours then crashed without producing errors. System appears to be less stable with increased core voltage. So I am trying a -.01 offset. hwmonitor reads 1.21/22V(while testing) and .97V (idle). If/After this test fails. I think I will run once more at auto settings(no offset) to verify baseline stability. Then is there any other bios settings i should try to tweak before swapping out ram?

 

[caesparktom]

Yep no guarantees here, and don't get carried away with this setting. It will either fix the problem or not. If you do not see improvement with this .02 setting revert to default settings and move on.

If we don't get anywhere soon I want to suggest a new thread with less text to read. Just the facts and formatted in a way that is easy to assimilate... like my troubleshooting guide

ah just, got your post. I will stop the -.01 offset and restore to default

 

[caesparktom]

did started new thread here: Unstable new build failing prime95 blend test

or shall I start another?

 

[Proximon]

No that's fine. I'm locking this one to avoid further confusion.

 

[caesparktom]

Best answer selected by caesparktom.