2007 Toyota Yaris temporary starting problem

[Chicano]

Guys, got a puzzling problem for you.

2007 Toyota Yaris, 5 speed Standard transmission; It would not crank over, not even a click. Checked the battery terminals, all was fine. Headlights and dashboard lights turned on ok...

1. Tried boost starting it but wouldn't even make click.
2. Next it was a push start on a very shallow incline, three people pushing it, ignition switch on, clutch depressed, gearshift in 2nd gear; when it got up to speed I popped the clutch and nothing, again and nothing.. repeated about 6-7 times for about 3/4 of a block and nothing.
3. Parked on the kerb, removed the rubber floor math, which was interfering with the gas pedal, put the transmission in neutral, depressed the clutch fully, and cranked the ignition; And it started rightaway!.


Question 1 is; Can recent model standard transmission cars be push started (pop the clutch), does the neutral safety switch allow starting this way?

Question 2 is; If the floor math didn't allow the clutch pedal to be fully depressed, would that prevent the starter from turning over?..

Question 3: What about popping the clutch, any idea why it didn't start?

 

[Chicano]

Well, I guess I've found the answer,.. so I'll share it in case someone should find it usefull sometime in the future.

The neutral safety switch is found in Automatic transmission cars and it's found in most cases in the shift console and is actuated but the shift selector shaft when it's in the Park or Neutral positions. In other cases the switch is located in the steering column mounting location

The purpose of the switch is to prevent the engine from starting in gear to prevent accidental launches as the engine starts.

On Manual Transmissions it's a Clutch Safety Switch...
http://www.2carpros.com/articles/how-a-neutral-safety-switch-works

On Manual Transmission cars, the safety switch is called the Clutch Safety Switch or Clutch Pedal Position Switch and it's located under the dash, making contact whith the clutch pedal lever and works when the clutch is fully depressed and the switch's push-off button is released.

The Clutch Safety Switch is supposed to prevent starts when the clutch pedal is not fully depressed; This would prevent starting the engine by push starting (or popping the clutch), but this gets confusing when you read instructions on how to pop the clutch as if the Clutch Safety Switch didn't exist.. guess you can't believe everything you read on the Internet... So the only way you can start a modern car with a Standard Transmission is to temporarily dissable the Clutch Safety Switch disconnecting the wires from the switch and bridging the contacts, or losening/removing the switch from it's normal position so the push-off button is released.

So the concrete answers to my questions are:

Q 1 is; Can recent model standard transmission cars be push started (pop the clutch), does the neutral safety switch allow starting this way?
Q 2 is; If the floor math didn't allow the clutch pedal to be fully depressed, would that prevent the starter from turning over?..
Q 3: What about popping the clutch, any idea why it didn't start?..

The answer to the three questions is:
The Clutch Safety Switch prevents engine ignition when the pedal is released or not fully depressed, so the Clutch Safety Switch would have to be temporarily disabled.

 

[wip99gt]

You know I have never seen this issue before. Good to know.

 

[Chicano]

Well it was not really an issue but at the moment it sure seemed like it. The cause was a thick rubber floor math that had creeped-up under the clutch pedal and prevented it from being fully depressed and that in turn didn't allow the clutch safety switch from being released, not allowing power to reach the starter solenoid.

It was at night in the dark so that complicated things for a few minutes... but after trying to push start it and noticing the floor math was obstructing the gas pedal, I removed it and that helped allowing the clutch safety switch to work normally but for a while I forgot about the clutch safety switch.

The car belongs to a relative and the last standard transmission car I owned was an 83 Rabbit that did not have the switch, so this problem was rather new to me and even though I should have known about the neutral safety switch, I did not remember it when I had to, so I had to seek for information and that helped me recall the switch's function and location.

 

[wip99gt]

Sometimes I hate those little issues. I had a 400kw genset that wouldn't start on me once. I messed around for a few hours until I noticed the emergency stop had screwed up and had cut the hold in power for the fuel solenoid. A ten minute fix took me four hours to troubleshoot. My boss laughed but I felt pretty damn stupid. Of course not as dumb as one mechanic felt for a service call I went on. He called me saying the turbo was screwed. I asked if he had checked the air filter and he said he's a mechanic he knows what he's doing. I drove 1200km each way, pulled the plugged air filter out, hooked up the air lines and started the unit. His boss was right behind me. That air filter cost them $5000. He was looking for a new job after that. The pad it was on was pumping out 250 cubes of oil a day. That's about $250000 of oil a day. It was shut off for 24 hours and takes 12 hours to get back up to production. So I guess it cost them $380000 for that air filter.

 

[Chicano]

Wow!! I guess the guy's boss had to forfeit the charge on that job... maybe even lost the client... I'd suppose

 

[wip99gt]

Nah the oil company that owned the pad was supposed to perform the maintenance. The unit was rented but it was the oil companies mechanic who screwed up. So it was all out of the oil companies pocket. It's a unit they use on pads when they're finished the holes to feed it electricity until they run power lines to it. I think it was going to be 6 months or so until power was run out to it.

 

[Chicano]

I see... still, loosing a job over a simple fix has to be the dumbest feeling ever... not to mention making somene drive 1200kms to take over... If only he had listened on the phone, and checked the dammed air filter.... should have learned to put his pride aside and really listen, he sure had to learn the hard way.