2012 Toyota Camry Hybrid XLE: Technology In A Mid-Size Sedan

[nebun]

i'll stick with my 2010 ford fusion hybrid for a while....much much better

 

[tuanies]

The new Fusion Hybrid is a stunning vehicle.

 

[Combat Wombat]

Genesis = better

 

[andrewcarr]

I get that the site wants to make money but come on it's about Computers mainly. I get that it's technology but still. It's a car review. Stop with this nonsense and publish more articles we want to read and care about.

 

[assasin32]

Still makes me think Toms is losing it way when it reviews cars. For crying out loud Toms if you review a car at least do a proper one too and not just ugg boot up times for the stereo and crap like that. We want to know EVERYTHING about the vehicle, what it has under the hood, model changes for that year, how it drives, 0-60, etc etc. At least strive to top all the other car magazines reviews.

 

[nebun]

[citation][nom]combat wombat[/nom]Genesis = better[/citation]
it's a POS KIA, lol

 

[Guest]

I am interested in knowing what the regular maintenance for this car.

After driving for 6oooo miles in years in my Prius. My brake is only used 1/10. Oil change, filters and tires are the only things I did. Compare to my last car, it save a lot.

 

[Sakkura]

Genesis = better

Sega Genesis? Argh, this is all so confusing!

 

[Guest]

The second car review I've seen on Tom's Hardward...huh?

 

[tuanies]

Its our third car review I believe. We still have more in the pipeline with more technology, more toys.

 

[stingstang]

"A lack of polish makes it hard to swallow the $1700 that Toyota charges for its package"

Oh, the context.

 

[1raiden1]

Still a Toyota

 

[Crashman]

Great, now all we need is an article on how Fox News killed the Volt. Really, they kept telling people it was a failed electric vehicle (30 miles on a charge) rather than a hybrid. And, they "corrected" guest who called it a hybrid. If GM's poor marketing was responsible for half of that car's sales issues, and mediocre engineering was responsible for half of its remaining sales issues, Fox News can claim the remaining 25% of its sales issues. That makes FNC as-responsible for the car's failure as the car itself.

 

[unexpectedly]

Where's the CNG version? I've got a natural gas Civic and I'm loving the 35 mpg and $2/gallon "gas".

 

[tuanies]

Where's the CNG version? I've got a natural gas Civic and I'm loving the 35 mpg and $2/gallon "gas".

How is the CNG Civic? I've never driven a CNG vehicle as its not too big up here in WA. We have a couple places for BioDiesel though.

Great, now all we need is an article on how Fox News killed the Volt. Really, they kept telling people it was a failed electric vehicle (30 miles on a charge) rather than a hybrid. And, they "corrected" guest who called it a hybrid. If GM's poor marketing was responsible for half of that car's sales issues, and mediocre engineering was responsible for half of its remaining sales issues, Fox News can claim the remaining 25% of its sales issues. That makes FNC as-responsible for the car's failure as the car itself.

The problem with the Volt is you're paying a $10k premium for essentially a Chevy Cruze with one less seat. However, if your commute is within 40 miles a day or you have access to electric charging in parking lots, its a decent investment considering how many government rebates there are. I know a retired couple that bought one and they've maybe filled up the tank once or twice since buying it a year ago, they just charge it at home.

But yes, GM marketing is terrible on the car. They should have marketed as a Electric car that doesn't suffer from range anxiety instead of touting it as a revolutionary vehicle. Sure its a first but to the general public there is no difference between a hybrid and the Volt. The MSRP also scares people away, especially if they are unaware of the tax breaks on it.

Also the Volt is a first generation product and people are still skeptical, not to mention Toyota Hybrid Synergy Drive is a powerful seller for some people.

My top fuel-efficient car choice at the moment is the Ford CMAX Hybrid, good looks a taller Focus essentially, too bad Ford cancelled the sliding door version or I would've had one in my garage instead of the Routan.

 

[unexpectedly]

How is the CNG Civic? I've never driven a CNG vehicle as its not too big up here in WA. We have a couple places for BioDiesel though.

I really appreciate driving my Civic. It's a 2007 model, ex-Navy, that I bought at a GSA auction in May this year with 11k miles. I'm almost 19k miles now. My previous car was a 1st generation Scion Xb. The Civic is quite a bit more civilized than the Box was, but I've grown to really enjoy the car. While I do miss the stick sometimes, the automatic actually tries to think and behave appropriately for how I'm driving. I'm really impressed with this car. I had borrowed someone's 2004 Civic LX and I didn't like that experience at all. Epic improvements for 8th generation Civics. I put some 16" wheels on it with LRR b-stone Ecpoia tires... drove 277 miles on 6.2 gallons on a 500 mile trip. During this trip, until the fuel gauge was completely empty, my Civic was rarely under 80 mph.

I doubt the car is good for 44 mpg, but it definitely averages out to over 35 mpg at 80+ mph. MPG is hard to calculate as a fill up is not the same from one station to the next ... or one time to the next. If a station has been idle and you're the 1st to fill up, you'll get the best fill possible for that pump. Everyone after will get a lower and lower maximum psi fill up. Not a huge deal in reality (unless a Trash Truck or school bus filled up!) but makes mpg more fuzzy.

$2/gallon + 35 mpg = 200 miles for $11. Most of my fills are 160~200 miles and never over $10 unless I go out of my way to pay $3/gallon. See cngprices.com for a map.

I did briefly test drive a 2012 Civic and it was very refined. If the extra $12k was worth it, I might have gotten it, but I got the 2007 for $17k (+ no tax) at the auction and no regrets. I'm good with a 5 year old car with so low miles for my $250/month payment. If I stretched the down, I'd barely make $350/mo for the 2012 model.

Oh, and in CA (and UT), CNG gets us solo HOV lane access. Cut your commuting cost in half + fly by the parking lot in the HOV lanes. :lol:

 

[larkspur]

[citation][nom]Crashman[/nom]If GM's poor marketing was responsible for half of that car's sales issues, and mediocre engineering was responsible for half of its remaining sales issues, Fox News can claim the remaining 25% of its sales issues. That makes FNC as-responsible for the car's failure as the car itself.[/citation]
But since the US Federal government owns half of GM, wouldn't that make their share of the blame be at least 50% making it more their fault than FNC's 25%? Wasn't it GM themselves who marketed the car as a completely new concept which, since the Prius had been out for years, implies something other than a hybrid? Ah, but what-the-heck, let's continue to blame failures in the US auto industry on news organizations and not on the management of the companies themselves. ; )

 

[Crashman]

[citation][nom]larkspur[/nom]But since the US Federal government owns half of GM, wouldn't that make their share of the blame be at least 50% making it more their fault than FNC's 25%? Wasn't it GM themselves who marketed the car as a completely new concept which, since the Prius had been out for years, implies something other than a hybrid? Ah, but what-the-heck, let's continue to blame failures in the US auto industry on news organizations and not on the management of the companies themselves. ; )[/citation]Credit where credit is due, I watched Glenn Beck lie about the car. Neil Cavuto got it right eventually. Eric Bowling never corrected Kimberly Guilfoyle who kept insisting that his loaner car "broke down" every day in Holland Tunnel. They have a narrative, that its an invalid concept that nobody would want, while at the same time people were spending thousands of dollars to turn their Prius into a Toyota version of the Volt.

That is, people were spending big bucks to make a Prius into a plug-in hybrid. So the concept does sell, it's simply not selling for GM due mostly to poor marketing. Fox News played a big role in killing the remaining, viable portion of its market. They did this for what, to criticize the government's role in GM? The news that nobody is reporting, is that GM has been slowly working towards this project since the EV1, and that the Volt, their "fallback position" product, has been on the boards since long before GM went broke.

The fact that the government stole GM ownership (bonds) from retirment funds and handed that portion over to the UAW is a true scandle, and one that has little to do with GM pre-failure or the Volt project that was started all those years back.

 

[tuanies]

My problem with GM lies within the dealership. After buying an '08 HHR SS brand new off the lot, the service was very disappointing. They had no idea wtf they were doing when something broke, even with a factory warranted power upgraded installed by their technicians. I told them exactly what to do to fix it, they ignored me and kept replacing things then eventually told me the part that was broken is unavailable and they didn't want to fix it anymore and to go to another dealership.

After the same experience with two dealerships I traded it in on the Routan and the VW dealership experience is worlds better than any Chevy dealership simply for the fact that I don't have to sit around or get shuttled home, I can just get a loaner vehicle for $10 a day no matter how short the dealership visit is. They take care of me and thats that.

I have a feeling people have the same experience with GM dealerships around the nation. Hell, when I went in to look at Chevy Cruze's when they first came out the sales guy was trying to run numbers and get me to put a deposit on a car when all I wanted to do was check one out. These sales tactics will turn a lot of people away, as well as very high markups. GM might be releasing decent cars, but their dealership network seems unchanged.

@unexpectedly I'm glad you love your CNG Civic. The last generation Civic was the last model where Honda truly outshines the competition. I share your pain on the stick, I miss it until I have to drive around down town Seattle or get stuck in traffic. It would be nice for some spirited driving in the BMW though. I can't really complain since i only paid $3500 for it.

 

[Guest]

i find most cars to be too cheap and plasticy these days.

 

[Guest]

I normally keep my car for at least 150,000 miles so I guess I will save at least $2500 over the 4 cylinder.

 

[Guest]

Its still a bland average grocery getter that one has to wonder if all the tech is worth the added costs?
Their is a lot of costs many people don't realize with some of these services. Having owned a couple Toyota's we also found Bluetooth phone systems terrible on them. I guess Toyota offers these features but don't bother to install quality components.

 

[tuanies]

Its still a bland average grocery getter that one has to wonder if all the tech is worth the added costs?
Their is a lot of costs many people don't realize with some of these services. Having owned a couple Toyota's we also found Bluetooth phone systems terrible on them. I guess Toyota offers these features but don't bother to install quality components.

Thats a common problem among car companies. They don't care about the mass market products, in terms of infotainment. They provide a list of features they want and source it from say Harman Becker versus developing it in-house.

However, Ford and Hyundai actually have their own in-house development which shows great promise. We're fans of SYNC with MyFord Touch but Gen 3 of the Hyundai system in the 2013 Sante Fe looks good as well.

 

[danwat1234]

[citation][nom]JeanLuc[/nom]I really don't get hybrid cars, there expensive to buy, a nightmare to service and looking at those MPG stats you would be better of getting a diesel motor. Take the VW Golf 1.6 TDI Bluemotion for example, it will give 70 MPG, easier to service, costs less and its very unlikely you will have to replace the fuel tank after five years.[/citation]
You can't get 70MPG easily and it's not available in the US, unfortunately. You also have particulate filters to deal with. Look on Fuelly_com. The 2.0 TDI VW USA Passat/Jetta averages right around 40MPG, whereas the Prius is 48MPG and Camry hybrid is 39.6MPG


From article:
"The rest comes from a conventional mechanical system, whereby pads squeeze rotors. Heat generated during that process is captured and turned back into energy that charges the battery pack, extending its operation." ?? Heat is not captured when physical brakes are being used. The heat is released into the air. No thermoelectrics used, could be in future models. BMW is trying to capture some exhaust heat to provide power for the car's battery.

 

[danwat1234]

From article;
"Although the Atkinson cycle yields greater efficiency, it sacrifices peak power in the process. The result is a drop from 178 hp and 170 ft-lbs of torque to 156 hp and 156 ft-lbs of torque. This is where the electric motors step in."

Actually, Atkinson cycle has worse low-end power. So, the electric motors really help then to provide power when the engine isN'T turning quickly.
You could say that it turns the drivetrain into the equivalent of a Miller cycle 'engine'. Really a Miller cycle engine is an Atkinson cycle engine with a supercharger installed to boost low-end power. But, in this case it's electric motors doing it.

Atkinson is nice but HCCI is what the next step is. Where a gas engine can function as a diesel on demand, no spark plugs used during certain conditions. Compression ratios are modified via valve behavior, pressures measured in each cylinder. It's pretty tricky to get gasoline to ignite when you want it to, and I guess diesel too.

Diesel does it by squirting in the fuel right when it's time to ignite. Gas engines squirt beforehand.