[SOLVED] 2060 vs 1660 super for old CPU (i5 4400

[Computanoob]

I wanna go big and upgrade my 10 year old GPU that died. I figure even if i'm bottlenecking now, I could one day move this GPU to a new system. Based on the simulations I'm running even the 1660 will be bottlenecking the CPU a bit. The super would even more and the 2060 might just be way overkill. Would it be helpful at all to spend the extra money? Like I said I might use it again on another build later, but I also might not.

 

[NightHawkRMX]

What are you going to be using the build for? If gaming, what resolution?

Also, what is the make and model of your PSU?

 

[Darkbreeze]

The 2060 is NOT overkill. Games are getting EXTREMELY resource intensive. I don't know what types of games you tend to play, or if you play a variety of them all, or what resolution you game at, but the 2060 is a very good 1080p card and an "ok" 1440p card.

You WILL have to upgrade your CPU at some point if you are anything more than an extremely casual gamer, because pointedly it's just not capable enough for much of anything anymore unless you're playing relatively light games and not needing many FPS. So when you DO upgrade the CPU, you're likely going to end up with something that is on point for use with the 2060 anyhow. A bottleneck is only a problem, if it's a problem. Often, it isn't. People worry far too much about "is this a bottleneck".

So what? Who cares? All a bottleneck means is that something is weaker than something else. So long as the component that is weakest is still capable of doing what you need it to do, it has no effect, and it doesn't matter at ALL if the other components are a lot more capable. In many cases, depending on the game, it won't matter at all because a lot of games are simply GPU bound anyhow so if you're not needing somewhere between 144 and a bazilliony FPS then it may not even be something you worry about at all except on games that are particularly CPU intensive. If that's the case, then you'll probably end up wanting to upgrade the CPU, well, the whole platform really because the only upgrade you can do on your current platform that makes any sense really would be to a 4790k and to be honest, even that doesn't make any sense anymore.

I'd get the biggest card you can reasonably afford AND that you can support with your power supply, or that you can get WITH a new power supply that WILL support it, and worry about the CPU if and when you need to.

 

[Computanoob]

What are you going to be using the build for? If gaming, what resolution?

Also, what is the make and model of your PSU?

it's 600 or 650 watt i forgot which a decent brand. gaming and I think my monitor is 1080 60 hz

 

[Computanoob]

The 2060 is NOT overkill. Games are getting EXTREMELY resource intensive. I don't know what types of games you tend to play, or if you play a variety of them all, or what resolution you game at, but the 2060 is a very good 1080p card and an "ok" 1440p card.
So what? Who cares? All a bottleneck means is that something is weaker than something else. So long as the component that is weakest is still capable of doing what you need it to do, it has no effect, and it doesn't matter at ALL if the other components are a lot more capable. In many cases, depending on the game, it won't matter at all because a lot of games are simply GPU bound anyhow so if you're not needing somewhere between 144 and a bazilliony FPS then it may not even be something you worry about at all except on games that are particularly CPU intensive. If that's the case, then you'll probably end up wanting to upgrade the CPU, well, the whole platform really because the only upgrade you can do on your current platform that makes any sense really would be to a 4790k and to be honest, even that doesn't make any sense anymore.

but isnt there a point where no matter how much better your GPU is your cpu just can't handle the increased data flow? I mean i'm using a 4400 i5 that's like 5-7 years old i think

 

[Darkbreeze]

If you were using something like an old 1st or 2nd Gen i5, then I'd agree. And to some extent, sure. Don't create a problem where none exists though.

The fact is, you are better off with a weak CPU and a good graphics card than you are with a weak cpu and a weak graphics card. Period.

 

[Darkbreeze]

it's 600 or 650 watt i forgot which a decent brand. gaming and I think my monitor is 1080 60 hz

Find the label on the side of the power supply and get the model off of that. Knowing the EXACT model of your power supply is probably MORE important, by far, than anything else being discussed here.

 

[InvalidError]

but isnt there a point where no matter how much better your GPU is your cpu just can't handle the increased data flow? I mean i'm using a 4400 i5 that's like 5-7 years old i think

If your GPU that died was nearly 10 years old, then even a modest GTX1650S would be a huge upgrade and fairly appropriate for an i5-4400. My i5-3470 can barely keep up with my GTX1050 unless I do something silly like playing games on my 4k TV, which is the main reason I'd be looking to get a 3050 or 3050Ti when those become available.

I wouldn't worry about going higher-end on your old i5 unless you plan to upgrade the rest of your PC within a year or so.

 

[Computanoob]

Find the label on the side of the power supply and get the model off of that. Knowing the EXACT model of your power supply is probably MORE important, by far, than anything else being discussed here.

It's EVGA 600. Does that change anything>? I mean i'm sure I have more than enoug hpower for anythign im remotely considering. Also now I got the idea to upgrqade my CPU it seems I culd get something like Core i5-9600K pretty cheap and it benchmarks twice as fast as the one I have lol

 

[Darkbreeze]

EVGA doesn't sell any 600w units that are decent really, not for this kind of system. ALL of their 600w units are pretty much garbage or at the very low end of mediocre. The B1, N1, W1, BA, BR and BQ units are all pretty crappy. They have some good units still, a few, but none of them are 600w. They are all 550w, 650w, 750w, etc.

What is the actual MODEL of your unit, or the series, because that is what will tell the tale. It will almost certainly be from one of the series I listed above. Being "600w" or being "EVGA" by themselves, doesn't mean squat. Literally. Half the "600w" power supplies out there are lucky, extremely lucky, if they could sustain anything above 500w for longer than ten minutes, or at all in some cases. EVGA's budget units, like basically all of their 600w models, aren't nearly THAT bad, but they are definitely not anything that I'd call "good" either, not by any stretch of the imagination.

In fact, not long ago, their ENTIRE B3 series failed their testing by Aris Mpitziopoulos, who is pretty much the cream of the crop when it comes to PSU testing for all intents and purposes, because they all blew up well below their rated specifications. So, while I absolutely know that some of their power supplies, like the GQ, G2, G3, P2 and T2 units, which were ALL made by Super Flower, were very good, they have equally "very bad" models as well. I'm a big fan of EVGA when it comes to graphics cards, and if you want an Nvidia based gaming card it's almost impossible to do better than one of theirs, plus their customer service is top notch in an industry where not everybody's IS, but when it comes to power supplies, especially in the recent past and present, it's a different story.

 

[Computanoob]

EVGA doesn't sell any 600w units that are decent really, not for this kind of system. ALL of their 600w units are pretty much garbage or at the very low end of mediocre. The B1, N1, W1, BA, BR and BQ units are all pretty crappy. They have some good units still, a few, but none of them are 600w. They are all 550w, 650w, 750w, etc.

What is the actual MODEL of your unit, or the series, because that is what will tell the tale. It will almost certainly be from one of the series I listed above. Being "600w" or being "EVGA" by themselves, doesn't mean squat. Literally. Half the "600w" power supplies out there are lucky, extremely lucky, if they could sustain anything above 500w for longer than ten minutes, or at all in some cases. EVGA's budget units, like basically all of their 600w models, aren't nearly THAT bad, but they are definitely not anything that I'd call "good" either, not by any stretch of the imagination.

In fact, not long ago, their ENTIRE B3 series failed their testing by Aris Mpitziopoulos, who is pretty much the cream of the crop when it comes to PSU testing for all intents and purposes, because they all blew up well below their rated specifications. So, while I absolutely know that some of their power supplies, like the GQ, G2, G3, P2 and T2 units, which were ALL made by Super Flower, were very good, they have equally "very bad" models as well. I'm a big fan of EVGA when it comes to graphics cards, and if you want an Nvidia based gaming card it's almost impossible to do better than one of theirs, plus their customer service is top notch in an industry where not everybody's IS, but when it comes to power supplies, especially in the recent past and present, it's a different story.

Wow I didn't realize there was such importance to the right PSU. Thanks I'll look into that. Like I said it says 600B so it's definitely the B series I got it used for $10 and been running it for 8 months or so

 

[Darkbreeze]

Oooh, yes. You will want to source something MUCH more reliable with better quality. For sure. This link below should be helpful.

Discussion - PSU recommendations and power supply discussion thread - Tom's hardware

Below you will find MY standard list of recommended power supplies and beyond that this thread is intended as a landing place for questions or discussions regarding specific units, platforms or related PSU tech, all of which are all welcome to be discussed here. If it's related to power supplies...

forums.tomshardware.com

 

[dotas1]

Also now I got the idea to upgrqade my CPU it seems I culd get something like Core i5-9600K pretty cheap and it benchmarks twice as fast as the one I have lol

Actually you can't. Your motherboard supports 3rd and 4th generation of i3/i5/i7 and not 9th. For that cpu you need a new motherboard AND new RAM as yours is DDR3 and everything else after yours uses DDR4.

 

[InvalidError]

you need a new motherboard AND new RAM as yours is DDR3 and everything else after yours uses DDR4.

Actually, there are frankenstein Chinese LGA1150 boards that support DDR3 on 6th-9th gen Intel CPUs. IIRC, Linus was a bit shocked when it actually worked. Intel's CPUs have many hidden features to make SIs happy and random Chinese companies are happy to use information leaks to create some odd products.

 

[dotas1]

Actually, there are frankenstein Chinese LGA1150 boards that support DDR3 on 6th-9th gen Intel CPUs. IIRC, Linus was a bit shocked when it actually worked. Intel's CPUs have many hidden features to make SIs happy and random Chinese companies are happy to use information leaks to create some odd products.

Yeah, I have seen that video! For a normal guy that does not search that much and he is not willing to take such risks (ordering from China with no guarantee that the hardware will be compatible or even work and with probably no support), it's not advisable to go to those lengths.

It's awesome though that they did manage to make it work.

 

[Darkbreeze]

I would definitely never use any of those franken-type systems or hardware, nor would I recommend them, but they are definitely out there. But yes, it's absolutely a non starter for standard hardware if you wanted to try and use that CPU with your current motherboard. Again, you'd need a new motherboard, CPU and memory. There aren't any upgrades you can really do to the platform that won't require that.

 

[NightHawkRMX]

I would not use those boards because linus so showed it killed a lot of performance when using ddr3. Also, the board tested was a locked board, which is dumb to pair with an unlocked CPU.

Also the EVGA GD600W looks to be pretty good, so perhaps that's an exception?

 

[Computanoob]

yeah that's an interesting idea but I wouldnt be wiling to use that sketch lol. And ur right I cant use that CPU, even tho the simulator lied to me about it. But there are still 100% upgrades I can do from the 4400 on 1150 if I can find a decent deal (which I cant and it would make more sense to buy a ryzen 3 for 100 new with a 75 dollar board.

 

[Computanoob]

EVGA doesn't sell any 600w units that are decent really, not for this kind of system. ALL of their 600w units are pretty much garbage or at the very low end of mediocre. The B1, N1, W1, BA, BR and BQ units are all pretty crappy. They have some good units still, a few, but none of them are 600w. They are all 550w, 650w, 750w, etc.

What is the actual MODEL of your unit, or the series, because that is what will tell the tale. It will almost certainly be from one of the series I listed above. Being "600w" or being "EVGA" by themselves, doesn't mean squat. Literally. Half the "600w" power supplies out there are lucky, extremely lucky, if they could sustain anything above 500w for longer than ten minutes, or at all in some cases. EVGA's budget units, like basically all of their 600w models, aren't nearly THAT bad, but they are definitely not anything that I'd call "good" either, not by any stretch of the imagination.

In fact, not long ago, their ENTIRE B3 series failed their testing by Aris Mpitziopoulos, who is pretty much the cream of the crop when it comes to PSU testing for all intents and purposes, because they all blew up well below their rated specifications. So, while I absolutely know that some of their power supplies, like the GQ, G2, G3, P2 and T2 units, which were ALL made by Super Flower, were very good, they have equally "very bad" models as well. I'm a big fan of EVGA when it comes to graphics cards, and if you want an Nvidia based gaming card it's almost impossible to do better than one of theirs, plus their customer service is top notch in an industry where not everybody's IS, but when it comes to power supplies, especially in the recent past and present, it's a different story.

thanks for that info. I can see you have some strong feelings about power supplies. My whole problem is stemming from my GPU drivers constantly failing and the computer no longer working (black/blue screen soon after boot) and the computer no longer works with my old GPU. I am currently using IGraphics. from the board. All of this happened after shipping my computer across the country. So I thought it was a mechanical damage to the board sockets or the GPU. But is it actually possible this could be caused by the PSU not powering the board right? Something could have gotten knocked loose there or a cable messed up in transit because I stuffed the case with a lot of padding

 

[Darkbreeze]

Yes, that's absolutely possible. It's also equally possible that your ten dollar power supply crapped the bed. That isn't unheard of when moving from place to place and a few jolts here and there. Especially if it started out cheap and has seen a fair amount of use already.

Honestly, it's probably not even worth mucking about over. I'd just be sure by getting a solid power supply. If it's NOT the problem, at least you'll know you have a solid foundation to work around AND it will make it somewhat easier to sort out what IS causing the problem because you'll know everything is getting good, clean power.

But, it IS probably worth just unplugging and then reconnecting everything to make sure nothing is loose. That includes all power connections, all data cables, your memory modules, everything. Basically, checking everything listed here:

"No POST", "system won't boot", and "no video output" troubleshooting checklist

"No POST", "system won't boot", and "no video output" troubleshooting checklist This checklist is a compilation of troubleshooting ideas from many forum members. It's very important to actually perform every step in the checklist if you want to effectively troubleshoot your problem. 1.Did you...

forums.tomshardware.com

 

[Computanoob]

Yes, that's absolutely possible. It's also equally possible that your ten dollar power supply crapped the bed. That isn't unheard of when moving from place to place and a few jolts here and there. Especially if it started out cheap and has seen a fair amount of use already.

Honestly, it's probably not even worth mucking about over. I'd just be sure by getting a solid power supply. If it's NOT the problem, at least you'll know you have a solid foundation to work around AND it will make it somewhat easier to sort out what IS causing the problem because you'll know everything is getting good, clean power.

But, it IS probably worth just unplugging and then reconnecting everything to make sure nothing is loose. That includes all power connections, all data cables, your memory modules, everything. Basically, checking everything listed here:

"No POST", "system won't boot", and "no video output" troubleshooting checklist

"No POST", "system won't boot", and "no video output" troubleshooting checklist This checklist is a compilation of troubleshooting ideas from many forum members. It's very important to actually perform every step in the checklist if you want to effectively troubleshoot your problem. 1.Did you...

forums.tomshardware.com

well it works perfectly fine without the GPU, even runs games on low graphics, but I did that already. I just thought maybe with less wattage demand from the PSU it was fine and that could be one explanation or just a bad 10 year old GPU (which is power hungry) Thanks for all your input

 

[Darkbreeze]

So it only works with the old PSU if there is no graphics card installed?

 

[Computanoob]

Yes

 

[Darkbreeze]

If you bought this PSU used, for ten bucks, and it works without a graphics card installed but doesn't work when you install one, even with the old PSU, then I think I'd definitely start with the PSU. Get a quality power supply FIRST, because then maybe you don't NEED to buy a new graphics card. And even if you DO need to buy a new graphics card by the end of it all, you would absolutely have had to do that anyhow since clearly this one isn't working correctly with anything more than a slot powered load.

I wouldn't want to run a brand new or even "new to me" 1660 ti or RTX 2060 with some ten dollar power supply, no matter what, anyhow.

 

[Computanoob]

If you bought this PSU used, for ten bucks, and it works without a graphics card installed but doesn't work when you install one, even with the old PSU, then I think I'd definitely start with the PSU. Get a quality power supply FIRST, because then maybe you don't NEED to buy a new graphics card. And even if you DO need to buy a new graphics card by the end of it all, you would absolutely have had to do that anyhow since clearly this one isn't working correctly with anything more than a slot powered load.

I wouldn't want to run a brand new or even "new to me" 1660 ti or RTX 2060 with some ten dollar power supply, no matter what, anyhow.

If you bought this PSU used, for ten bucks, and it works without a graphics card installed but doesn't work when you install one, even with the old PSU, then I think I'd definitely start with the PSU. Get a quality power supply FIRST, because then maybe you don't NEED to buy a new graphics card. And even if you DO need to buy a new graphics card by the end of it all, you would absolutely have had to do that anyhow since clearly this one isn't working correctly with anything more than a slot powered load.

I wouldn't want to run a brand new or even "new to me" 1660 ti or RTX 2060 with some ten dollar power supply, no matter what, anyhow.

Well I mean to be clear its not clearly not working I'm still not sure if it's the motherboard or the PSU or just the 10 year old GPU. So now I'm thinking I might as well just do an entire new build. Anyway any 5-600 watts you can recommend in the 50-60 dollar range

what about this one

https://www.bestbuy.com/site/season...gc6isMCaeXbWwECI3hRoCftwQAvD_BwE&gclsrc=aw.ds