23.97 to 29.97 conversion

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I've spent the last couple of days trying to convert a VOB at 23.97
fps to an AVI at 29.97 fps. I've had no luck. I can get the VOB into
AVI ok using VirtualDub, but it's an AVI at 23.97. I tried to use
pulldown.exe to apply the 3:2 pulldown, but it will only seems to take
MPV or MPG files as input, which VirtualDub doesn't produce.

I've also tried TMPGenc with no luck. It won't take VOB files, and it
wouldn't apply the 3:2 pulldown to the AVI file (23.97) I gave it from
VirtualDub. The resulting AVI was also 23.97 fps.

Are there any easy solutions for going from VOB (23.97) to AVI
(29.97)?
 
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How about VOB to MPEG2? Then pulldown should work.
There's a couple of ways to extract the MPG2 file from VOBS.
Vobrator is one and it's free.

Chris McMahon wrote:

>I've spent the last couple of days trying to convert a VOB at 23.97
>fps to an AVI at 29.97 fps. I've had no luck. I can get the VOB into
>AVI ok using VirtualDub, but it's an AVI at 23.97. I tried to use
>pulldown.exe to apply the 3:2 pulldown, but it will only seems to take
>MPV or MPG files as input, which VirtualDub doesn't produce.
>
>I've also tried TMPGenc with no luck. It won't take VOB files, and it
>wouldn't apply the 3:2 pulldown to the AVI file (23.97) I gave it from
>VirtualDub. The resulting AVI was also 23.97 fps.
>
>Are there any easy solutions for going from VOB (23.97) to AVI
>(29.97)?
 
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On 30 Mar 2004 18:53:27 -0800, cochrane68@hotmail.com (Chris McMahon)
wrote:

>I've spent the last couple of days trying to convert a VOB at 23.97
>fps to an AVI at 29.97 fps.

VirtualDub can do pulldown: "Avi | Frame rate..."
 
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Bariloche wrote:

> On 30 Mar 2004 18:53:27 -0800, cochrane68@hotmail.com (Chris McMahon)
> wrote:
>
>
>>I've spent the last couple of days trying to convert a VOB at 23.97
>>fps to an AVI at 29.97 fps.
>
>
> VirtualDub can do pulldown: "Avi | Frame rate..."

Unfortunately, it appears to only "undo" pulldown, not add it.
 
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On 30-Mar-2004, cochrane68@hotmail.com (Chris McMahon) wrote:

> Are there any easy solutions for going from VOB (23.97) to AVI
> (29.97)?

Why would you want to? Are you trying to burn it to tape or to DVD?

DVD supports 23.976 FPS MPG as source. The DVD player automatically adds
pulldown. All you have to do is set two flags: TFF (top field first) and RFF
(repeat first field).

This way, you get the advantage of having smaller source MPG on your DVD
(more room!)

Then, if you *really* want 29.97 footage for tape or something, just record
direct from the DVD player.


--
Chris

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The reason I want to, is so I can mix my own footage (from a DV
camcorder) with footage from a DVD.

I realize I can just record from a DVD player through analog inputs,
but this would be an extra conversion step with quality loss, and this
seems like an unnecessary step. It's difficult to believe there isn't
software that handles this. If the DVD player can apply 3:2 pulldown,
I'm certain there is software that can easily do this.


"FlyByKnight" <FlyByKnight@example.invalid> wrote in message news:<wSBac.48334$CN3.1417@fe22.usenetserver.com>...
> On 30-Mar-2004, cochrane68@hotmail.com (Chris McMahon) wrote:
>
> > Are there any easy solutions for going from VOB (23.97) to AVI
> > (29.97)?
>
> Why would you want to? Are you trying to burn it to tape or to DVD?
>
> DVD supports 23.976 FPS MPG as source. The DVD player automatically adds
> pulldown. All you have to do is set two flags: TFF (top field first) and RFF
> (repeat first field).
>
> This way, you get the advantage of having smaller source MPG on your DVD
> (more room!)
>
> Then, if you *really* want 29.97 footage for tape or something, just record
> direct from the DVD player.
 
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On 31 Mar 2004 11:59:46 -0800, cochrane68@hotmail.com (Chris McMahon)
wrote:

>The reason I want to, is so I can mix my own footage (from a DV
>camcorder) with footage from a DVD.
>
>I realize I can just record from a DVD player through analog inputs,
>but this would be an extra conversion step with quality loss, and this
>seems like an unnecessary step. It's difficult to believe there isn't
>software that handles this. If the DVD player can apply 3:2 pulldown,
>I'm certain there is software that can easily do this.

The easiest way I know of is to load the AVI into TMPGenc, set
it up like you want to output to DVD (i.e. 720x480, 48KHz 16 bit
sound, 29.97 fps), then selct FILE --> OUTPUT TO FILE --> AVI FILE.
Select a DV codec under Video settings, make sure the sound will be
output as 16 bit stereo 48KHz PCM, then save the new AVI under a new
file name. TMPGenc will convert the file to 29.97 fps for you.
Voila! A nice DV file for easy mixing with your home DV footage!
-----------------------------------------------------
Neil Nadelman arvy@navzr-genafyngbe.pbz (ROT13)
-----------------------------------------------------
I have no fears in life,
for I have already survived Theta-G!
 
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Oh, and one more vital thing. Be sure to check the 3:2
pulldown box in TMPGenc under SETTINGS --> ADVANCED. Otherwise the
encoder will just freeze the appropriate frames to create a 29.97
frame rate as opposed to actually combing some together in a telecine
pattern.
-----------------------------------------------------
Neil Nadelman arvy@navzr-genafyngbe.pbz (ROT13)
-----------------------------------------------------
I have no fears in life,
for I have already survived Theta-G!
 
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On 31-Mar-2004, cochrane68@hotmail.com (Chris McMahon) wrote:

> The reason I want to, is so I can mix my own footage (from a DV
> camcorder) with footage from a DVD.

Ahh... good reason!

Here's one solution:

Rip the DVD. Use DVD2AVI to frameserve TMPGEnc. Make sure the DVD2AVI
settings are interlaced (29.97). DVD2AVI can do both. It has a FORCED FILM
setting for use when the source MPG is 24P and you want a 24P AVI. But,
since the DVD spec supports (in fact: REQUIRES) NTSC interlaced 29.97
operation, DVD2AVI can essentially serve your VOB to the encoder in the same
way that your DVD player serves the 24P content to your TV - by adding the
2:3 pulldown as it goes along (but it does it all "internally" READ:
digitally).

Then just encode the file to whatever you want with TMPGEnc.


--
Chris

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Vobrator just created another VOB. What does demux mean?


consetti@despammed.com wrote:

> How about VOB to MPEG2? Then pulldown should work.
> There's a couple of ways to extract the MPG2 file from VOBS.
> Vobrator is one and it's free.
>
> Chris McMahon wrote:
>
>
>>I've spent the last couple of days trying to convert a VOB at 23.97
>>fps to an AVI at 29.97 fps. I've had no luck. I can get the VOB into
>>AVI ok using VirtualDub, but it's an AVI at 23.97. I tried to use
>>pulldown.exe to apply the 3:2 pulldown, but it will only seems to take
>>MPV or MPG files as input, which VirtualDub doesn't produce.
>>
>>I've also tried TMPGenc with no luck. It won't take VOB files, and it
>>wouldn't apply the 3:2 pulldown to the AVI file (23.97) I gave it from
>>VirtualDub. The resulting AVI was also 23.97 fps.
>>
>>Are there any easy solutions for going from VOB (23.97) to AVI
>>(29.97)?
>
>
 
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I ripped the DVD using DVDShrink. Then converted it to AVI using
VirtualDub. At this point I have a perfect AVI with clean sound and
video at 23.97 fps.

Then when I try to process it through TMPGEnc it goes to hell. If I use
TMPGEnc to create an AVI file using 3:2 pulldown, I get choppy video and
audio at 23.97 (even though I chose 3:2 pulldown, which I suspect only
works for MPEGs).

If I use TMPGEnc to create an MPEG (1 or 2) file using 3:2 pulldown, I
get smooth video and audio at 29.97, but it has lots of visual artifacts.

So what am I doing wrong? :)


FlyByKnight wrote:
> On 31-Mar-2004, cochrane68@hotmail.com (Chris McMahon) wrote:
>
>
>>The reason I want to, is so I can mix my own footage (from a DV
>>camcorder) with footage from a DVD.
>
>
> Ahh... good reason!
>
> Here's one solution:
>
> Rip the DVD. Use DVD2AVI to frameserve TMPGEnc. Make sure the DVD2AVI
> settings are interlaced (29.97). DVD2AVI can do both. It has a FORCED FILM
> setting for use when the source MPG is 24P and you want a 24P AVI. But,
> since the DVD spec supports (in fact: REQUIRES) NTSC interlaced 29.97
> operation, DVD2AVI can essentially serve your VOB to the encoder in the same
> way that your DVD player serves the 24P content to your TV - by adding the
> 2:3 pulldown as it goes along (but it does it all "internally" READ:
> digitally).
>
> Then just encode the file to whatever you want with TMPGEnc.
>
>
 
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Tried this. See my response to FlyByKnight.

Maybe I'm setting something wrong in TMPGEnc.


Neil Nadelman wrote:

> Oh, and one more vital thing. Be sure to check the 3:2
> pulldown box in TMPGenc under SETTINGS --> ADVANCED. Otherwise the
> encoder will just freeze the appropriate frames to create a 29.97
> frame rate as opposed to actually combing some together in a telecine
> pattern.
> -----------------------------------------------------
> Neil Nadelman arvy@navzr-genafyngbe.pbz (ROT13)
> -----------------------------------------------------
> I have no fears in life,
> for I have already survived Theta-G!
 
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If you demux with VOBrator, it will split (demuitiplex) the VOB file
into its component streams. You get separate files for the video,
audio, navigation information etc. You can then run pulldown on the
video (.m2v) file and load the converted video file along wth the
demuxed audio file into your editor.


Chris McMahon wrote:

>Vobrator just created another VOB. What does demux mean?
>
>
>consetti@despammed.com wrote:
>
>> How about VOB to MPEG2? Then pulldown should work.
>> There's a couple of ways to extract the MPG2 file from VOBS.
>> Vobrator is one and it's free.
>>
>> Chris McMahon wrote:
>>
>>
>>>I've spent the last couple of days trying to convert a VOB at 23.97
>>>fps to an AVI at 29.97 fps. I've had no luck. I can get the VOB into
>>>AVI ok using VirtualDub, but it's an AVI at 23.97. I tried to use
>>>pulldown.exe to apply the 3:2 pulldown, but it will only seems to take
>>>MPV or MPG files as input, which VirtualDub doesn't produce.
>>>
>>>I've also tried TMPGenc with no luck. It won't take VOB files, and it
>>>wouldn't apply the 3:2 pulldown to the AVI file (23.97) I gave it from
>>>VirtualDub. The resulting AVI was also 23.97 fps.
>>>
>>>Are there any easy solutions for going from VOB (23.97) to AVI
>>>(29.97)?
>>
>>
 
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From Avisynth reference:

# Take a 24fps progressive input clip and apply 3:2 pulldown,
# yielding a 30fps interlaced output clip
AssumeFrameBased
SeparateFields
SelectEvery(8, 0,1, 2,3,2, 5,4, 7,6,7)
Weave
 
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On Thu, 01 Apr 2004 00:33:38 -0500, Chris McMahon
<cochrane68@hotmail.com__NOSPAM> wrote:

>Tried this. See my response to FlyByKnight.
>
>Maybe I'm setting something wrong in TMPGEnc.

You must be. I just converted a 24 fps AVI to 30 fps with
TMPGenc using the method I just described. No jerky video or
anything. Are you sure the frame rate in TMPGenc is set to 29.97 when
you output the AVI?

-----------------------------------------------------
Neil Nadelman arvy@navzr-genafyngbe.pbz (ROT13)
-----------------------------------------------------
I have no fears in life,
for I have already survived Theta-G!
 
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Neil Nadelman wrote:
> On Thu, 01 Apr 2004 00:33:38 -0500, Chris McMahon
> <cochrane68@hotmail.com__NOSPAM> wrote:
>
>
>>Tried this. See my response to FlyByKnight.
>>
>>Maybe I'm setting something wrong in TMPGEnc.
>
>
> You must be. I just converted a 24 fps AVI to 30 fps with
> TMPGenc using the method I just described. No jerky video or
> anything. Are you sure the frame rate in TMPGenc is set to 29.97 when
> you output the AVI?
>

How are you creating the AVI? I used DVDShrink to get the VOB from the
DVD, then used VirtualDub to convert the VOB to an AVI. Could I have
set something wrong in these two conversions?
 
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Neil Nadelman wrote:

> On Thu, 01 Apr 2004 00:33:38 -0500, Chris McMahon
> <cochrane68@hotmail.com__NOSPAM> wrote:
>
>
>>Tried this. See my response to FlyByKnight.
>>
>>Maybe I'm setting something wrong in TMPGEnc.
>
>
> You must be. I just converted a 24 fps AVI to 30 fps with
> TMPGenc using the method I just described. No jerky video or
> anything. Are you sure the frame rate in TMPGenc is set to 29.97 when
> you output the AVI?
>
> -----------------------------------------------------
> Neil Nadelman arvy@navzr-genafyngbe.pbz (ROT13)
> -----------------------------------------------------
> I have no fears in life,
> for I have already survived Theta-G!

One more question... what codec do you recommend for video and audio
decoding? Maybe that's the problem too.
 
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On Thu, 08 Apr 2004 20:17:03 -0400, Chris McMahon
<cochrane68@hotmail.com__NOSPAM> wrote:


>How are you creating the AVI? I used DVDShrink to get the VOB from the
>DVD, then used VirtualDub to convert the VOB to an AVI. Could I have
>set something wrong in these two conversions?

I'm just using a 24 fps AVI I happen to have on my drive. I didn't
create it.
-----------------------------------------------------
Neil Nadelman arvy@navzr-genafyngbe.pbz (ROT13)
-----------------------------------------------------
I have no fears in life,
for I have already survived Theta-G!
 
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On Thu, 08 Apr 2004 21:16:33 -0400, Chris McMahon
<cochrane68@hotmail.com__NOSPAM> wrote:


>One more question... what codec do you recommend for video and audio
>decoding? Maybe that's the problem too.

Um, do you mean what codec do I use for ENcoding? Take your
pick. Divx or Xvid both work equally well for me.


-----------------------------------------------------
Neil Nadelman arvy@navzr-genafyngbe.pbz (ROT13)
-----------------------------------------------------
I have no fears in life,
for I have already survived Theta-G!
 

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