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[SOLVED] 2700x not boosting max clock

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Nov 7, 2019
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Hello

Specs:
  • CPU: 2700x alll stock option
  • Cooler: stock wraith prism
  • PSU: focus + gold seasonic 650w
  • RAM: flare X 3200MHZ 2x8G CL14
  • Storage: nvme samsung evo 970 512G
  • OS: win 10 1903 pro
  • MB: MSI Mortar B450M
  • BIOS 7B89v1B (same result with 7B89v1A , 7B89v19 , 7B89v18 and 7B89v17 )
Issue:
On any thread, the max clock speed ever attained is 4.2Ghz for a fraction of a second and this only happens when waiting idle on windows and all other cores are in “cool and quiet”state around 2.7GHz

On single thread tasks, I reach only 4.025 for more than 3 consecutive seconds

If I tried the integrated “game boost” mode from amd, the system crashes quickly

I want to RMA my cpu but the support says that this is expected

EDIT: People report temperature of 65C under full load with stock cooler. I have already 55C on idle and 85C on load (it thortells down to 3.8GHZ then).

Question for you
Would you say that my CPU is faulty? (Either because of boost and/or temps)

DATA

These are 10 min of logs of me:
  • Browsing for 7 min
  • Cinebench r20 single thread for 3 min







Cinebench

Here are some logs from a whole pcmark10 run as requested by support (msi afterburner file format)
https://filebin.net/cv9x7zf464b2egee
 
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Rogue Leader

It's a trap!
Moderator
Its unlikely you'll ever hit 4.3 ghz on that motherboard.

First off make sure Precision Boost 2 is enabled, this is in the BIOS.

Secondly while the CPU is capable of 4.3 ghz under PB2 its dependent on many factors, one of which is your motherboard and its power delivery. The board you have has half the VRMs of a good high end X470 board that has no problem hitting 4.3. I think you're getting all you reasonably can expect out of that board.

The support people are correct, your board is not capable of pushing a 2700X to the max.
 
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Nov 7, 2019
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Ok, I never realized higher CPU required higher board for stock features (I thought it was only relevant when wanting to overclock).

What surprises me also is that the Mortar is branded as "gaming" MB and many people considered it a good mother board, with heatsinks for VRM, PBO, reinforced PCI lanes (I know, not really usefull but they've put a bit more money in the development of the board), ram up to 3466 MHz . I mean, the BIOS itself has a "Game boost" mode which is an integrated factory overclock of all cores to 4.1 GHz (which fails on my cpu. Factory default features that crash, I don't think I should expect that). It is not the cheapest board you can find.

I would have really thought that at least stock boost clock would be reached for 0.1 sec (even on entry level MB) when used on a chipset made specifically for this 2nd gen ryzen series. Or the board should disclaim that higher end CPU might work at lower clock than advertised.

I know that I am no expert but it is hard to believe that using a good mATX make you loose 200MHz of boost clock. I ll wait for more opinion but if you guys agree with this then I learned something
 

Rogue Leader

It's a trap!
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What surprises me also is that the Mortar is branded as "gaming" MB and many people considered it a good mother board, with heatsinks for VRM, PBO,
MSI is on my "list" (and not the good one) for this. They have released a number of awful "gaming" motherboards over the years. Thats not to say this board is awful, its not, but the most performance you'll ever get out of a 2700x even manually overclocked is 4.3 ghz, and thats with the best of the best hardware. With a board that is truly mid range at best, even with heatsinks on the VRMs (done more for aesthetics in this case than performance) its just not happening even for a flash.

I'm not shocked game boost crashes, but to be fair, that type of feature is garbage on most boards.

I know that I am no expert but it is hard to believe that using a good mATX make you loose 200MHz of boost clock. I ll wait for more opinion but if you guys agree with this then I learned something
I highlighted part of this because it IS a good mATX board, but its still a B450 chipset, and it still has a half size set of VRMs. A truly "good mATX" board (by your description) would be an X470 based board with at least an 8 phase VRM. They do exist.

While MSI doesn't mention it on their site one way or another, if you look on AMD's website it does talk about what is needed for max boost, without getting into very specific details.

https://www.amd.com/en/support/kb/faq/cpu-pb2

In your case the issue is:

Current draw (amps) from the motherboard power delivery circuits
 
Reactions: O-steal
One thing that does not seem right is your temps...For idle you are way to high and again under load you are to high. Recheck that your CPU cooler is on properly...This will adversely affect the way the CPU is boosting..
 
Reactions: RodroX
I also have a B450m Mortar.

I strongly suggest that for 2700X processor you not run a BIOS past 7B89v14. The reason is, everything after that was released specifically for Ryzen 3000 processors. They might work, but offer nothing for a Ryzen 2000 and don't have all the BIOS features of the v14 BIOS. The later BIOS had to throw out features to accomodate the much larger AGESA code needed for the Ryzen 3000.

Second: you should be able to get full boost support for a 2700X, it's a strong and capable board with the V14 BIOS. Once you've got it running just enable PBO and push the three parameters (PPT, TDC, EDC) to the max. Then try under-volting VCore using an offset adjustment.

The effect is very much going to be limited by cooling... a stock cooler won't be nearly as effective at it as big tower cooler. Or, best, an AIO.

Good Luck
 
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Rogue Leader

It's a trap!
Moderator
Second: you should be able to get full boost support for a 2700X, it's a strong and capable board with the V14 BIOS. Once you've got it running just enable PBO and push the three parameters (PPT, TDC, EDC) to the max. Then try under-volting VCore using an offset adjustment.

The effect is very much limited by cooling though... a stock cooler won't be nearly as effective at it as big tower cooler. Or, best, an AIO.
This is a good point, its never going to happen with a stock cooler. But if you push those parameters with a really good cooler it may work.
 
Nov 7, 2019
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One thing that does not seem right is your temps...For idle you are way to high and again under load you are to high. Recheck that your CPU cooler is on properly...This will adversely affect the way the CPU is boosting..
Regarding the cooling, I repasted the stock cooler twice, opened the case with all fans on , I still reach 85C easily if i launch cinebench. Could it be that my heatspreader is badly soldered?

Second: you should be able to get full boost support for a 2700X, it's a strong and capable board with the V14 BIOS. Once you've got it running just enable PBO and push the three parameters (PPT, TDC, EDC) to the max.
I gave logs without PBO because to me, PBO was meant to go above advertised specs and I wanted the CPU to reach max clock on stock settigns. When i Use PBO, the thing hapening is that my cores frequently boost to 4.2 but the max boost still never reaches 4.3.

Then try under-volting VCore using an offset adjustment
For the offset, I tried but everytime I check with ryzen master, they say the voltage is still the same, no matter if i chgose offset or absolute value in BIOS

its never going to happen with a stock cooler
Regarding the cooler, many people reported being able to overclock with it. And the few temps I read on reddit where indeed much colder (65C full load and 40C idle which is around 20C colder than what i get). Also, when i do my boost tests, i pay attention to never reach 80 to not throttle. So I understand that having a better cooler would help if i wanted to push the cpu further, but i don't think it is a limiting factor, even though temperatures are worring to me

I ll try to flash the V14 and see what kind of improvement I can get. I ll post it here. Which me luck
 

RodroX

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vMax and drea.drechsler have very good point, those temps are really high for idle and load, the stock cooler is not bad, is very decent but the case may need better or more fans to allow for good airflow.

There are lots of guides on how to produce good airflow inside a case, usually you want atleast 2 fans on the front of the case pushing fresh air inside and atleast 1 fan on the back removing the hot air out.

If your case have fans (make sure you have in and out fans) then you may need to resit the AMD stock cooler or, if you can, buy a good aftermarket one like: https://www.arctic.ac/worldwide_en/freezer-34-esports-duo.html or many other good brands and models out there.

Also if you wana check your temps and frecuency, choose some monitor sofwtare like hwinfo portable (64 bits- sensors only option) and only use 1 at the time. Don't keep more than 1 monitor software open cause it will mess wiith your readings
 
Nov 7, 2019
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Sorry to point this out again...but 55 Degrees C at idle is just a bit to much heat....even for a stock cooler...Yes a better cooler will make a difference at the top end but 55 C at idle is just wrong on the stock cooler.
You reassure me a bit. Also to be clear, i get these temps with balanced power mode, all my thread are going down to 2.7GHz and jump back to 4GHz, i am not constantly all core boosting
EDIT: My room is cold, I struggle to heat it at 16/18C


EDIT
There are lots of guides on how to produce good airflow inside a case, usually you want atleast 2 fans on the front of the case pushing fresh air inside and atleast 1 fan on the back removing the hot air out.
I had this fan config in my first config but now I test with open case and two fans exhausting the corner and one blowing front top

I was planning on getting a Dark Rock Pro 4 but then I realised that even with case open max speed I was reaching 85C, i figured I needed to proof check it was not coming from the cpu itself
 
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Rogue Leader

It's a trap!
Moderator
Regarding the cooling, I repasted the stock cooler twice, opened the case with all fans on , I still reach 85C easily if i launch cinebench. Could it be that my heatspreader is badly soldered?
Highly highly unlikely. Occams razor, the simplest solution is always the right one. Simplest being either the cooler is improperly installed, or not working fully/properly.

I gave logs without PBO because to me, PBO was meant to go above advertised specs and I wanted the CPU to reach max clock on stock settigns. When i Use PBO, the thing hapening is that my cores frequently boost to 4.2 but the max boost still never reaches 4.3.
No it wasn't PBO was meant to max it at 4.3 ghz which is also listed on all advertising materials as the absolute max for boost. But PBO is also advertised as being board and cooling dependent.

Regarding the cooler, many people reported being able to overclock with it. And the few temps I read on reddit where indeed much colder (65C full load and 40C idle which is around 20C colder than what i get). Also, when i do my boost tests, i pay attention to never reach 80 to not throttle. So I understand that having a better cooler would help if i wanted to push the cpu further, but i don't think it is a limiting factor, even though temperatures are worring to me
This is what I hate about random internet comments like that. Most don't mention all the conditions. Check any official instrumented tests by reputable websites and they will tell you the stock cooler cannot support overclocking. Many of these folks who say they can do it either are lying about stability, or are in a room that the Ambient temp is WAY lower that what any normal person would consider comfortable. Sure if you're in a small room with the A/C on blitzkrieg and its 63 degrees F in there, you're going to get better performance.
 
You reassure me a bit. Also to be clear, i get these temps with balanced power mode, all my thread are going down to 2.7GHz, i am not constantly all core boosting
Thanks for the clarity O-steal...I did hear that the earlier Ryzens had a temp bug which miss reported the temps by around 10 degrees..hopefully others better than me can come in and help as this just does not look right...your temps should be a lot better even with the stock Wraith cooler..
 

Rogue Leader

It's a trap!
Moderator
Thanks for the clarity O-steal...I did hear that the earlier Ryzens had a temp bug which miss reported the temps by around 10 degrees..hopefully others better than me can come in and help as this just does not look right...your temps should be a lot better even with the stock Wraith cooler..
That issue was fixed with the 2xxx series CPUs and also with BIOS updates on the original ones. He legit has high temps.
 
Reactions: vMax
...
For the offset, I tried but everytime I check with ryzen master, they say the voltage is still the same, no matter if i chgose offset or absolute value in BIOS
...
I know it's AMD's, and it shouldn't be, but Ryzenmaster is a bit flaky and not exactly easy to explain what it's doing. The most accurate and understandable utility to use to read things like Vcore voltages and core temperatures is HWinfo64.

When you're looking at temps, look at the CPU Tdie/Tctl temperature. If the two are separate, e.g. CPU (Tdie) and a CPU (Tctl) then that "10degree bug" will be clearly laid out for you so you have no doubts what you're seeing. And when looking at VCore voltages look at CPU VCore (STI2/TFN) voltage reading.
 
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TJ Hooker

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Herald
I highlighted part of this because it IS a good mATX board, but its still a B450 chipset, and it still has a half size set of VRMs. A truly "good mATX" board (by your description) would be an X470 based board with at least an 8 phase VRM. They do exist.

While MSI doesn't mention it on their site one way or another, if you look on AMD's website it does talk about what is needed for max boost, without getting into very specific details.

https://www.amd.com/en/support/kb/faq/cpu-pb2

In your case the issue is:
Current draw (amps) from the motherboard power delivery circuits
There actually aren't any X470 boards with true 8 phase; 6 is the highest. And there are only 5 mobos I see that have 8+ phases using doublers (and none of them ar mATX).

Edit: To expand on this, the mortar uses two pairs of FETs per phase. So as far as current capability goes, it should be on par with a doubled 4 phase VRM using one set of FETs per phase (assuming same FETs/cooling).
 
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TJ Hooker

Glorious
Herald
No it wasn't PBO was meant to max it at 4.3 ghz which is also listed on all advertising materials as the absolute max for boost. But PBO is also advertised as being board and cooling dependent.
PBO shouldn't be required to hit 4.3 GHz in lightly threaded loads, assuming other conditions are being met (e.g. cooling). PBO can improve max boost (I think up to 4.35-4.4 GHz with a 2700X, can't remember), and improve multi core boost.
 
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