2nd inquirer, spellbinder + kingcheetah

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Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.magic.strategy (More info?)

Ok Imprint- When spellbinder comes into play, you may remove an instant
card in your hand from the game.
Whenever equipped creature deals combat damage to a player, you may copy
the imprinted instant card and play the copy without paying its mana
cost.

ok lets say i have spellbind and kingcheetah, ironic i know, but
kingcheetah is this
"you may choose to play King cheetah whenever you could play an instant."
its a green 3/2 creature

Is this a "legal" combo because if it is wow black sacrifice, just got
real good as well as the overwhelming white weeny, ie,
whispersilk.spellbinder.kingcheethad creature summons a 3/2 every turn!
 
Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.magic.strategy (More info?)

garvdogart <garvdart@bellsouth.net> wrote:

> Ok Imprint- When spellbinder comes into play, you may remove an instant
> card in your hand from the game.
> Whenever equipped creature deals combat damage to a player, you may copy
> the imprinted instant card and play the copy without paying its mana
> cost.
>
> ok lets say i have spellbind and kingcheetah, ironic i know, but
> kingcheetah is this
> "you may choose to play King cheetah whenever you could play an instant."
> its a green 3/2 creature
>
> Is this a "legal" combo because if it is wow black sacrifice, just got
> real good as well as the overwhelming white weeny, ie,
> whispersilk.spellbinder.kingcheethad creature summons a 3/2 every turn!

No.

Spellbinder
{3}
Artifact -- Equipment
Imprint -- When Spellbinder comes into play, you may remove an INSTANT
card in your hand from the game.
Whenever equipped creature deals combat damage to a player, you may copy
the imprinted INSTANT card and play the copy without paying its mana
cost.
Equip {4}

King Cheetah
{3}{G}
CREATURE -- Cheetah
3/2
You may play King Cheetah any time you could play an instant.

[emphasis mine]
--
Daniel W. Johnson
panoptes@iquest.net
http://members.iquest.net/~panoptes/
039 53 36 N / 086 11 55 W
 
Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.magic.strategy (More info?)

On Sat, 24 Jul 2004 00:56:24 -0400, garvdogart <garvdart@bellsouth.net> wrote:
>Ok Imprint- When spellbinder comes into play, you may remove an instant
>card in your hand from the game.
>Whenever equipped creature deals combat damage to a player, you may copy
>the imprinted instant card and play the copy without paying its mana
>cost.
>
>ok lets say i have spellbind and kingcheetah, ironic i know, but
>kingcheetah is this
>"you may choose to play King cheetah whenever you could play an instant."
> its a green 3/2 creature

Rules questions go over on .rules, not here on .strategy .

King Cheetah is not an Instant card. It is a Creature card. It is able to
be _played_ (cast) at times a Creature card normally can't be, but that does
not make it anything other than a Creature card. You can't pick it as a card
to imprint on Spellbinder or Isochron Scepter.

Dave
--
\/David DeLaney posting from dbd@vic.com "It's not the pot that grows the flower
It's not the clock that slows the hour The definition's plain for anyone to see
Love is all it takes to make a family" - R&P. VISUALIZE HAPPYNET VRbeable<BLINK>
http://www.vic.com/~dbd/ - net.legends FAQ & Magic / I WUV you in all CAPS! --K.
 
Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.magic.strategy (More info?)

On Sat, 24 Jul 2004 00:56:24 -0400, "garvdogart"
<garvdart@bellsouth.net> wrote:

>Ok Imprint- When spellbinder comes into play, you may remove an instant
>card in your hand from the game.
>Whenever equipped creature deals combat damage to a player, you may copy
>the imprinted instant card and play the copy without paying its mana
>cost.
>
>ok lets say i have spellbind and kingcheetah, ironic i know, but
>kingcheetah is this
>"you may choose to play King cheetah whenever you could play an instant."
> its a green 3/2 creature
>
>Is this a "legal" combo because if it is wow black sacrifice, just got
>real good as well as the overwhelming white weeny, ie,
>whispersilk.spellbinder.kingcheethad creature summons a 3/2 every turn!

The part of the comprehensive rules you are looking for is this:

"As though"
Text that states a player or card may do something "as though" some
condition were true applies only to the stated action. For purposes of
that action, treat the game exactly as if the stated condition is
true. For all other purposes, treat the game normally.
Example: Giant Spider reads, "Giant Spider may block as though it had
flying." You may treat the Spider as a creature with flying, but only
for the purpose of declaring blockers. This allows Giant Spider to
block a creature with flying (and creatures that "can't be blocked
except by creatures with flying"), assuming no other blocking
restrictions apply. For example, Giant Spider can't normally block a
creature with both flying and shadow.
Example: Future Sight reads, "Play with the top card of your library
revealed. / You may play the top card of your library as though it
were in your hand." The revealed card may be played by the usual
rules. If it's a spell, it's placed on the stack as the first step of
playing it (see rule 409, "Playing Spells and Activated Abilities");
if it's a land, it's put directly into play. Because the card isn't
actually in your hand, it can't be discarded, removed from the game to
pay a cost, cycled, or counted toward the number of cards in your
hand.
Example: Rolling Stones reads, "Walls may attack as though they
weren't Walls." As long as this effect is active, Walls are treated
exactly like creatures that don't have the Wall creature type for the
purposes of declaring attackers. They're still subject to all other
rules and effects that determine whether an attack is legal.
If two cards state that a player or card may do the same thing
"as though" different conditions were true, both conditions could
apply. If one "as though" effect satisfies the requirements for
another "as though" effect, then both effects will apply.
Example: Two effects read, "You may play cards in your graveyard as
though they were in your hand," and "You may play cards from other
players' graveyards as though they were in your graveyard." Both
effects apply. You may play cards in your graveyard and cards in your
opponents' graveyards. (The cards may be played by the usual rules.)


King Cheeta acts "as though" it was an instant, but it most definitely
is not, and thus it can't be imprinted on Spellbinder (and even if you
pulled some trick and mannaged to get it there, you would not be able
to copy and cast it).
Similarily Vedalken Orrery does not allow you to imprint any nonland
card on a spellbinder.

Vedalken Orrery
{4}
Artifact
You may play nonland cards any time you could play an instant.

Another example is that if you use Future Sight to cast Phage the
Untouchable from the top of your library, you loose the game - granted
Phage was played "as though" she were in your hand, but in reality she
was played from the top of your library.

Phage the Untouchable
{3}{B}{B}{B}{B}
Creature -- Minion Legend
4/4
When ~this~ comes into play, if you didn't play it from your hand, you
lose the game.
Whenever Phage deals combat damage to a creature, destroy that
creature. It can't be regenerated.
Whenever Phage deals combat damage to a player, that player loses the
game.

--
Regards
Simon Nejmann
 
Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.magic.strategy (More info?)

Simon Nejmann <snejmann@worldonline.REMOVETHIS.dk> wrote:
>"garvdogart" <garvdart@bellsouth.net> wrote:
>>ok lets say i have spellbind and kingcheetah, ironic i know, but
>>kingcheetah is this
>>"you may choose to play King cheetah whenever you could play an instant."
>> its a green 3/2 creature

>The part of the comprehensive rules you are looking for is this:
>
>"As though"
>Text that states a player or card may do something "as though" some
[snip]

Er: no, not really.

>King Cheeta acts "as though" it was an instant,

No; no, it doesn't. All it says is that you can play it at an Odd Time,
one when you normally couldn't play creature spells. It doesn't say
anything, even in its original Visions-card wording, about "treat this card
_as though_ it were an Instant spell".

>but it most definitely
>is not, and thus it can't be imprinted on Spellbinder (and even if you
>pulled some trick and mannaged to get it there, you would not be able
>to copy and cast it).

Right.

>Similarily Vedalken Orrery does not allow you to imprint any nonland
>card on a spellbinder.

Right. And even if it _did_ invoke "as though" to let you play the nonland
cards "as though they were instants", that still wouldn't make them Instants
for any purposes at all other than _playing_ them. Specifically, you still
would be unable to IMPRINT them 'as though they were an instant'.

Dave
--
\/David DeLaney posting from dbd@vic.com "It's not the pot that grows the flower
It's not the clock that slows the hour The definition's plain for anyone to see
Love is all it takes to make a family" - R&P. VISUALIZE HAPPYNET VRbeable<BLINK>
http://www.vic.com/~dbd/ - net.legends FAQ & Magic / I WUV you in all CAPS! --K.
 
Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.magic.strategy (More info?)

> ok lets say i have spellbind and kingcheetah, ironic i know, but
> kingcheetah is this
> "you may choose to play King cheetah whenever you could play an instant."
> its a green 3/2 creature
>
> Is this a "legal" combo because if it is wow black sacrifice, just got
> real good as well as the overwhelming white weeny, ie,
> whispersilk.spellbinder.kingcheethad creature summons a 3/2 every turn!

Though this is completely illegal, as has been pointed out, you can
substitute Elephant Ambush for the Cheetah and get pretty much the result
you're looking for. It's not a bad combo, but I can think of stronger ones.
Putting Crush of Wurms on a Panoptic Mirror would be pretty rough, for
instance.