Question 3200 vs 3600? 5800x

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- sam -

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jtk2515

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I did tests with Cinebench r23 with a 5600x. 3200 14-14-14-34 Gives me 12128. 3200 18-18-18-34 gives me 11752 which is around 3%. Going to 3600mhz 14-14-14-34 only raised my score to 12256. I had a greater improvement just using 2 ranks of memory per channel. AKA 4x(8GB) or 2x(16GB) Kits. But even with tight timing and a Quad rank kit the difference is only around 10% in synthetics and 1-7% in games.


The 1st option is better but their will be almost no difference.
 

- sam -

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I did tests with Cinebench r23 with a 5600x. 3200 14-14-14-34 Gives me 12128. 3200 18-18-18-34 gives me 11752 which is around 3%. Going to 3600mhz 14-14-14-34 only raised my score to 12256. I had a greater improvement just using 2 ranks of memory per channel. AKA 4x(8GB) or 2x(16GB) Kits. But even with tight timing and a Quad rank kit the difference is only around 10% in synthetics and 1-7% in games.


The 1st option is better but their will be almost no difference.
Please can you help me decide. which one should i get? 3600 CL18 or 3200 CL16
 

Krotow

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Smaller CL give faster RAM access times. Higher frequency (MHz) - faster data moving (loading, copying etc.). Which technically make CL14 better than CL18. But for large data moving (textures and shaders in games between RAM and GPU for example) 3600 is better. I would take 3600 and would try to overclock them with goal to achieve stable work with 3600 MHz and lower CL. In end you will not lose much anyway. For nephew's computer managed to overclock Patriot Viper 4 3733 CL17 (PV416G373C7K) on 5600X CPU to have stable work in 3733 CL15 mode.
 
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im going to get the 3600 cl17 then. thanks so much!
Hey there,

Whilst there has been some good advice here, not all is accurate. You most certainly want to get 3600mhz, which is optimal for Ryzen 2nd/3rd gen. The reason is it will work on a 2:1 ratio with your CPU's IMC. The Infinity fabric runs at a certain speed (in this case 1800mhz FCLK). If you use 3600mhz it is an exact 2:1 ratio. This is optimal for Ryzen.

In terms of CL rating. Ryzen don't like odd number CL. If you choose the CL17, you may have issues. They possibly won't work out of the box. You would have to change gear down mode to make them work. Keep this in mind, because it may impact how the ram ratios work with regard to the FCLK/Ram Speed ratio.
 

- sam -

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Hey there,

Whilst there has been some good advice here, not all is accurate. You most certainly want to get 3600mhz, which is optimal for Ryzen 2nd/3rd gen. The reason is it will work on a 2:1 ratio with your CPU's IMC. The Infinity fabric runs at a certain speed (in this case 1800mhz FCLK). If you use 3600mhz it is an exact 2:1 ratio. This is optimal for Ryzen.

In terms of CL rating. Ryzen don't like odd number CL. If you choose the CL17, you may have issues. They possibly won't work out of the box. You would have to change gear down mode to make them work. Keep this in mind, because it may impact how the ram ratios work with regard to the FCLK/Ram Speed ratio.
Oh wow. Now I'm back to being worried. So for my 5800x I should get the 3600 cl18 and not the 3600 cl17???
 
Oh wow. Now I'm back to being worried. So for my 5800x I should get the 3600 cl18 and not the 3600 cl17???
Yes and no. For compatibility the CL18 should work straight away. WIth CL17 you have to change the gear down mode (this is in the bios). It should work, but still could be problematic. If you are comfortable working in the bios, then with some tricking around, they will work for you.

Yes, CL17 might yield slightly more bandwidth in certain applications, but so few and far between, IMO it's not worth the hassle, or the minor improvement in performance.

In this case, if it were me, I'd go with CL18, and be happy out! :)

Edit: When you do get your DIMMS (hopefully the CL18 3600mhz), then you can use Ryzen Dram calc to tighten timings a little bit, to maybe hit CL16 with other main timings reduced too.

Edit 2: As @punkncat mentioned, check the DIMMS against the QVL for your mobo. Although, if the DIMMS aren't on the QVL, that doesn't mean they don't work. It only means they haven't been tested with your mobo.
 
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- sam -

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Yes and no. For compatibility the CL18 should work straight away. WIth CL17 you have to change the gear down mode (this is in the bios). It should work, but still could be problematic. If you are comfortable working in the bios, then with some tricking around, they will work for you.

Yes, CL17 might yield slightly more bandwidth in certain applications, but so few and far between, IMO it's not worth the hassle, or the minor improvement in performance.

In this case, if it were me, I'd go with CL18, and be happy out! :)
This is the first time Ive heard of this. I've been looking and comparing RAM pretty much all day just to pick the right one which lead to the 3600 CL17. Now you told me this now i'm scared lol.

Ugh, I'm in a never ending loop of constantly changing the parts I pick. Can you link me something so it reassures me lol
 
Here's something on geardown mode: (1) Gear down mode? : Amd (reddit.com)

Here's something about Infinity fabric/IMC (internal memory controller) : (1) Infinity Fabric Ratios and RAM speeds : ryzen (reddit.com)

Here's something on fclk : (1) RAM and FCLK settings vs performance on Ryzen 3000 : Amd (reddit.com)

Knowing the terms you can look into it a bit further. There's lots of info on all these things. Don't be scared. Understanding these things a little better helps you know your system better. So it's a win/win :).

Listen, I'm no expert. Just an enthusiast. I've been on this forum since 2009, and practically everything I know about PC/Hardware and pretty much anything to with tech, I've learned from the other users on this forum. An immense resource for PC/hardware knowledge. So, no question is too silly to ask. That's why we are all here. TH forum is a real community, where for the most part, sharing and learning is the main objective for all of us here. At least that's my opinion anyway.
 

- sam -

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Here's something on geardown mode: (1) Gear down mode? : Amd (reddit.com)

Here's something about Infinity fabric/IMC (internal memory controller) : (1) Infinity Fabric Ratios and RAM speeds : ryzen (reddit.com)

Here's something on fclk : (1) RAM and FCLK settings vs performance on Ryzen 3000 : Amd (reddit.com)

Knowing the terms you can look into it a bit further. There's lots of info on all these things. Don't be scared. Understanding these things a little better helps you know your system better. So it's a win/win :).

Listen, I'm no expert. Just an enthusiast. I've been on this forum since 2009, and practically everything I know about PC/Hardware and pretty much anything to with tech, I've learned from the other users on this forum. An immense resource for PC/hardware knowledge. So, no question is too silly to ask. That's why we are all here. TH forum is a real community, where for the most part, sharing and learning is the main objective for all of us here. At least that's my opinion anyway.
Your opinion has changed my mind I will get the cl18 3600. To confirm,

I should buy this one - https://www.novatech.co.uk/products/g-skill-trident-z-neo-32gb-2x16gb-ddr4-3600mhz-dual-channel-memory-ram-kit/f4-3600c18d-32gtzn.html

Do not buy this - https://www.novatech.co.uk/products/g-skill-trident-z-rgb-32gb-2x16gb-ddr4-3600mhz-dual-channel-memory-ram-kit/f4-3600c17d-32gtzr.html
 
So, just to confirm. Yes, you should buy the first one linked.

Also, to confirm, those specific DIMMS are not on the QVL for your mobo. As I said, this does not mean they won't work, only that they haven't been tested. They should work with out problems. If you have issues, we can help with that, or if you prefer, you can PM me, and we can work through getting them to work. However, it's 95% they will work just fine as expected :)

Here's the QVL for your mobo: MSI Global

If you just wanna take a look for yourself.
 

- sam -

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So, just to confirm. Yes, you should buy the first one linked.

Also, to confirm, those specific DIMMS are not on the QVL for your mobo. As I said, this does not mean they won't work, only that they haven't been tested. They should work with out problems. If you have issues, we can help with that, or if you prefer, you can PM me, and we can work through getting them to work. However, it's 95% they will work just fine as expected :)

Here's the QVL for your mobo: MSI Global

If you just wanna take a look for yourself.
This is all too advanced for me lol. I just wanted to buy a new high end system because I was depressed about my old one. It died randomly last week for no reason.
I just wanted to get together a good new system but it turns out picking parts has been traumatizing for me, especially you telling me these stories lol

ive got people telling me not to buy samsung 980 pro and get the WD instead. this never ending loop of changing parts is killing me.
 
Odd number Cl and need for Samsung b-die chips were problem only for 1st gen Ryzen, since then it doesn't matter. Odd or even Cl number are tied to memory architecture of single or dual rank (not same as channel), not CPU or it's IMC Also Cl (Cas latency=Column Address Strobe) is not only latency or setting that matters.
Samsung b-die chips on memory used to be best quality and best for OC but has been discontinued and replaced by a-die and also Hynix and others caught up in quality. There are actually very small differences in actual memory performance between all manufacturers because very large number of RAM stick manufacturers use chips from only 3-4 actual chip makers. About 90% of RAM stick manufacturers use chips from Samsung, Hynix or Micron.
So, fussing about RAM manufacturers or diminutive difference in Cl is largely counterproductive, most with same frequency will perform within 99% performance of each other. (OC ability notwithstanding).
It just so happens that Ryzen prefers frequency and dual channel and can gain quite more performance (between 2133 and let's say 3600MHz RAM) up to 10 or more %. That's counting just CPU and not rest of system.
 
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