So I'm about to build my PC and i'm about $350 under the budget I set out so I'm looking for things to upgrade on it. Any tips would be great. Here's the build so far https://pcpartpicker.com/list/34Ry8Y
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Darkbreeze
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You have all the basics for a great gaming PC covered (and maybe then some). 2080/2080ti is the only stand out option I can think of. I'm assuming you already have a decent monitor. Anything else I can see would really just be for flair, or give little performance for the cost.
Darkbreeze
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What resolution and settings are you shooting for? Are you planning to do heavy multitasking while gaming, like recording, streaming or encoding on the fly? Any other simultaneous processes you know you'll be running while gaming?
Darkbreeze
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Are you looking for a specific aesthetic on these parts, or are performance, features and quality more important to you?
Darkbreeze
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Power delivery is not as good on B450 as it is on X470. The VRM configurations on B450 are not nearly as good as those found on X470. For the 2700x you want a board using the X470 chipset unless you plan to keep everything at the stock configuration, and if you plan to do that there is no point in the Kraken cooler over even a mid tier air cooler.
I'd probably do something like this, and also bump up the efficiency and quality by a couple of notches on the power supply. It's not going to make the system perform any better, BUT, the PSU will likely last a few years more than the TX unit and not only save a few dollars on the electric bill due to it's higher efficiency, but also, the more efficient a unit is the less heat that is produced as waste, so it also contributes less radiant heat to the interior of the case. Also, this unit will have a 12 year warranty instead of 7 like the TX gold unit.
Also, you don't want Vengeance memory for use with Ryzen. Yes, there are some part numbers that have been verified and proven to be compatible with Ryzen, but overall most of the IC's (Memory chips) used on the Vengeance series of modules are not high end and you'll likely be limited in being able to use faster memory with a lower quality IC. Ryzen tends to like modules with high end Samsung IC's, like their B die units. There has been good success with speeds over 2933mhz using B die equipped modules.
Wouldn't be a bad idea to get a module that has AMD timings in mind either. Most of the Corsair DDR4 to date has primarily had Intel based XMP settings and while you can get those to work by manually configuring the timings and dialed in using the Ryzen memory calculator, it's a pretty solid choice to start out with a module that you know has good compatibility in general.
G.Skill Trident-Z is, arguably, probably the best memory on the market in general depending on the specific kit. Their Flare-X modules are specifically designed for Ryzen platforms as well. These modules have both Samsung IC's AND the onboard XMP (AMP) profiles are specifically intended for use with the Ryzen platform, so there should be a lot less need for configuration of timings manually although you may still need to make adjustments to timings and voltage if you wish to get them to run at their rated speed of 3200mhz. With the Vengeance modules, it's very doubtful you'd gain anything higher than 2600-2933mhz and would likely need to bump up the DRAM voltage considerably to do that. Maybe not even then.
The compatibility has gotten better with more recent bios updates on all of the Ryzen chipsets, but you'll have the highest probability of success with your configurations using the X470 chipset and memory that incorporates Samsung B-die IC's.
All told this does bump up your investment a bit, but I think it's definitely worth the gains in quality and performance.
Could actually go with the ASUS Tuf Pro gaming X470 board, as it's a bit cheaper, but I stuck with the ROG F board, same as you had on the B450 platform, since that's what you had selected. Just a better chipset with this board.
PCPartPicker part list / Price breakdown by merchant
CPU: AMD - Ryzen 7 2700X 3.7GHz 8-Core Processor ($318.90 @ OutletPC)
CPU Cooler: NZXT - Kraken X62 Rev 2 98.2 CFM Liquid CPU Cooler ($156.29 @ B&H)
Motherboard: Asus - ROG STRIX X470-F Gaming ATX AM4 Motherboard ($189.27 @ B&H)
Memory: G.Skill - Flare X Series 16GB (2 x 8GB) DDR4-3200 Memory ($229.99 @ Newegg)
Storage: Samsung - 960 EVO 500GB M.2-2280 Solid State Drive ($154.99 @ Amazon)
Storage: Seagate - Barracuda 3TB 3.5" 7200RPM Internal Hard Drive ($75.99 @ Newegg Marketplace)
Video Card: EVGA - GeForce GTX 1080 Ti 11GB SC Black Edition Video Card ($699.89 @ OutletPC)
Power Supply: SeaSonic - PRIME Ultra Titanium 650W 80+ Titanium Certified Fully-Modular ATX Power Supply ($122.06 @ Newegg)
Total: $1947.38
Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available
Generated by PCPartPicker 2018-09-11 01:56 EDT-0400
I'd probably do something like this, and also bump up the efficiency and quality by a couple of notches on the power supply. It's not going to make the system perform any better, BUT, the PSU will likely last a few years more than the TX unit and not only save a few dollars on the electric bill due to it's higher efficiency, but also, the more efficient a unit is the less heat that is produced as waste, so it also contributes less radiant heat to the interior of the case. Also, this unit will have a 12 year warranty instead of 7 like the TX gold unit.
Also, you don't want Vengeance memory for use with Ryzen. Yes, there are some part numbers that have been verified and proven to be compatible with Ryzen, but overall most of the IC's (Memory chips) used on the Vengeance series of modules are not high end and you'll likely be limited in being able to use faster memory with a lower quality IC. Ryzen tends to like modules with high end Samsung IC's, like their B die units. There has been good success with speeds over 2933mhz using B die equipped modules.
Wouldn't be a bad idea to get a module that has AMD timings in mind either. Most of the Corsair DDR4 to date has primarily had Intel based XMP settings and while you can get those to work by manually configuring the timings and dialed in using the Ryzen memory calculator, it's a pretty solid choice to start out with a module that you know has good compatibility in general.
G.Skill Trident-Z is, arguably, probably the best memory on the market in general depending on the specific kit. Their Flare-X modules are specifically designed for Ryzen platforms as well. These modules have both Samsung IC's AND the onboard XMP (AMP) profiles are specifically intended for use with the Ryzen platform, so there should be a lot less need for configuration of timings manually although you may still need to make adjustments to timings and voltage if you wish to get them to run at their rated speed of 3200mhz. With the Vengeance modules, it's very doubtful you'd gain anything higher than 2600-2933mhz and would likely need to bump up the DRAM voltage considerably to do that. Maybe not even then.
The compatibility has gotten better with more recent bios updates on all of the Ryzen chipsets, but you'll have the highest probability of success with your configurations using the X470 chipset and memory that incorporates Samsung B-die IC's.
All told this does bump up your investment a bit, but I think it's definitely worth the gains in quality and performance.
Could actually go with the ASUS Tuf Pro gaming X470 board, as it's a bit cheaper, but I stuck with the ROG F board, same as you had on the B450 platform, since that's what you had selected. Just a better chipset with this board.
PCPartPicker part list / Price breakdown by merchant
CPU: AMD - Ryzen 7 2700X 3.7GHz 8-Core Processor ($318.90 @ OutletPC)
CPU Cooler: NZXT - Kraken X62 Rev 2 98.2 CFM Liquid CPU Cooler ($156.29 @ B&H)
Motherboard: Asus - ROG STRIX X470-F Gaming ATX AM4 Motherboard ($189.27 @ B&H)
Memory: G.Skill - Flare X Series 16GB (2 x 8GB) DDR4-3200 Memory ($229.99 @ Newegg)
Storage: Samsung - 960 EVO 500GB M.2-2280 Solid State Drive ($154.99 @ Amazon)
Storage: Seagate - Barracuda 3TB 3.5" 7200RPM Internal Hard Drive ($75.99 @ Newegg Marketplace)
Video Card: EVGA - GeForce GTX 1080 Ti 11GB SC Black Edition Video Card ($699.89 @ OutletPC)
Power Supply: SeaSonic - PRIME Ultra Titanium 650W 80+ Titanium Certified Fully-Modular ATX Power Supply ($122.06 @ Newegg)
Total: $1947.38
Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available
Generated by PCPartPicker 2018-09-11 01:56 EDT-0400
What about these https://www.amazon.com/G-Skill-TridentZ-288-Pin-3600MHz-F4-3600C17D-16GTZR/dp/B01N4V82FW?SubscriptionId=14H876SFAKFS0EHBYQ02&tag=hubacct9792-20&linkCode=xm2&camp=2025&creative=165953&creativeASIN=B01N4V82FW Is that gonna be to much overkill? I want something with RGB because this is a Black with White accents build.
If you go with that ram you will want a motherboard that can support the faster speed (200$+ Is the cheapest I see). Logically its probably not worth it. If I was already using a mobo that can use 3600, I would probably get it just for fun. There are some interesting results with the 2700x benchmarks and fast ram.
Darkbreeze
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The X470-F Gaming supports up to 3600mhz. It doesn't matter anyhow. Most overclocking boards support whatever speed memory you can figure out a good timing and voltage configuration for. They don't list them all because usually a lot of these speeds didn't exist at the time the board was released and manufacturers are lazy about adding or updating features that are listed for that board on it's product page after bios updates that allow support for those speeds or features. Of course, on some lower chipsets this is not the case.
Those memory modules, part number F4-3600C17D-16GTZR are not verified for Ryzen that I can see plus they do not look to be B-die modules AND the timings for those modules are much higher, which is worse, than for the modules I listed. CL14 memory at 3200mhz is about the best you can hope for on Ryzen PLUS it's likely faster anyhow than a CL17 module at 3600mhz. DDR4 is already ridiculously fast at anything over 2600mhz, and once you get past that speed you want to start looking at modules that have tighter timings with low latencies. Latency is likely to net you better performance than bandwidth, but you still want to be sure to buy modules in kits that are matched and verified to play nice together for dual channel operational purposes.
Those memory modules, part number F4-3600C17D-16GTZR are not verified for Ryzen that I can see plus they do not look to be B-die modules AND the timings for those modules are much higher, which is worse, than for the modules I listed. CL14 memory at 3200mhz is about the best you can hope for on Ryzen PLUS it's likely faster anyhow than a CL17 module at 3600mhz. DDR4 is already ridiculously fast at anything over 2600mhz, and once you get past that speed you want to start looking at modules that have tighter timings with low latencies. Latency is likely to net you better performance than bandwidth, but you still want to be sure to buy modules in kits that are matched and verified to play nice together for dual channel operational purposes.
So I bumped the motherboard from a 450 up to a 470 https://pcpartpicker.com/list/6rKQw6. In terms of RAM I went with this https://www.amazon.com/G-Skill-F4-3200C16D-16GTZR-Trident-288-Pin-DDR4-3200MHz/dp/B01MTDEYHU Also for the PSU i'm going to upgrade maybe to like a 750 for a safe bet well overclocking.
Darkbreeze
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I would advise against those memory modules. That specific model number uses Hynix A-die memory chips. Ryzen tends to have issues with Hynix ICs in general, mostly with the M-die modules, but some of the other Hynix memory chips as well. Plus, it has a CAS 16 latency, and you will gain more performance out of Ryzen with low latency, high quality IC modules than you will with high frequency models alone. Those other modules I linked you to are CAS 14 latency at the same speed, which means they'll have a much lower OVERALL latency.
I realize you want the RGB factor, but in this case, with how fickle Ryzen can be when it comes to memory, I'd strongly suggest against it unless you can find an RBG G.Skill model that incorporates a Samsung B die IC and a CAS 14 latency. It will be worth the extra investment, if there is one, in terms of overall performance.
I'm working three other threads right now where we are trying to get these guys memory to work at speeds over 2133mhz. All of them are G.Skill and Corsair modules using Hynix memory chips. These are not limited cases. There are a ton of them on all the forums. BIOS updates have not cured all of the memory compatibility issues on Ryzen, only reduced them. There are still modules Ryzen simply does not play nice with.
These would be the modules I'd probably recommend, if you have to have RGB. Of course, what you do is entirely up to you, I can only offer you my opinion based on many instances of working with other members on memory compatibility on Ryzen builds. There are absolutely some instances of people having success using modules that others have not typically had success with on Ryzen.
Going up to 750w isn't a bad idea at all. In fact, I'd highly recommend it. Not only does it give you some headroom for overclocking, it also gives you headroom period, which means the PSU will likely be operating in a lower percentile of it's maximum capabilities and should have lower levels of ripple and electrical noise, better voltage regulation and will operate in a cooler thermal envelope which will also help it to have better longevity overall.
Considering that you'll be overclocking, you want a unit with mythic levels of those same values I just mentioned. I'd look to the Seasonic Prime series or a higher tiered Corsair model like the RM or AX models. The TX models are good, but they are not great, and overclocking is particularly sensitive to variations in ripple or voltage regulation. You want a unit with very little deviation in either of those. The Seasonic Prime series and the Corsair RMx, HX and AX units are what you probably ought to take a look at. When in doubt, find a professional review either here at Tom's Hardware or at www.jonnyguru.com. HardOCP and TechpowerUP are good sources as well. Oklahoma Wolf and Aris Mpitziopoulos are the two primary reviewers you want to find reviews from. They are far and away more trustworthy when it comes to reviews, and they have the best equipment and experience to make valid judgements as to the worthiness of any potential PSU purchase.
I realize you want the RGB factor, but in this case, with how fickle Ryzen can be when it comes to memory, I'd strongly suggest against it unless you can find an RBG G.Skill model that incorporates a Samsung B die IC and a CAS 14 latency. It will be worth the extra investment, if there is one, in terms of overall performance.
I'm working three other threads right now where we are trying to get these guys memory to work at speeds over 2133mhz. All of them are G.Skill and Corsair modules using Hynix memory chips. These are not limited cases. There are a ton of them on all the forums. BIOS updates have not cured all of the memory compatibility issues on Ryzen, only reduced them. There are still modules Ryzen simply does not play nice with.
These would be the modules I'd probably recommend, if you have to have RGB. Of course, what you do is entirely up to you, I can only offer you my opinion based on many instances of working with other members on memory compatibility on Ryzen builds. There are absolutely some instances of people having success using modules that others have not typically had success with on Ryzen.
Going up to 750w isn't a bad idea at all. In fact, I'd highly recommend it. Not only does it give you some headroom for overclocking, it also gives you headroom period, which means the PSU will likely be operating in a lower percentile of it's maximum capabilities and should have lower levels of ripple and electrical noise, better voltage regulation and will operate in a cooler thermal envelope which will also help it to have better longevity overall.
Considering that you'll be overclocking, you want a unit with mythic levels of those same values I just mentioned. I'd look to the Seasonic Prime series or a higher tiered Corsair model like the RM or AX models. The TX models are good, but they are not great, and overclocking is particularly sensitive to variations in ripple or voltage regulation. You want a unit with very little deviation in either of those. The Seasonic Prime series and the Corsair RMx, HX and AX units are what you probably ought to take a look at. When in doubt, find a professional review either here at Tom's Hardware or at www.jonnyguru.com. HardOCP and TechpowerUP are good sources as well. Oklahoma Wolf and Aris Mpitziopoulos are the two primary reviewers you want to find reviews from. They are far and away more trustworthy when it comes to reviews, and they have the best equipment and experience to make valid judgements as to the worthiness of any potential PSU purchase.
I think I found the answer I bumped from the Corsair 650 up to a EVGA 750 SuperNova & in terms of RAM I found these https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B06XFH6R73/ref=ox_sc_act_title_3?smid=AIVQYW9Z9ECPV&psc=1
You need to bank that $350 for the next gen ryzen. The 2700x is going to be gimping your 1080ti and will definitely fall short for the next gen video cards. So you best bet is to save that money for when you need to get an video card and you'll want a new cpu to go with it.
Darkbreeze
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Sigh. This guy again. IMO, everything he just stated is entirely wrong. I haven't entirely decided if he's trolling or really believes the things he says, yet.
Others agree. 'Nuff said.
Others agree. 'Nuff said.
Darkbreeze
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- Jun 24, 2014
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What is the exact model of the EVGA unit you are looking at? Some of their Supernova units are not very good, despite the 80plus gold rating. In fact, the Supernova G1 units are not worth the money at all.
If it is not a G2, G3, P2 or T2 Supernova unit, don't get it.
If it is not a G2, G3, P2 or T2 Supernova unit, don't get it.
Darkbreeze
Retired Mod
- Jun 24, 2014
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Yes, those are great modules. G.Skill, Samsung B-die and CL14 with 3200mhz. As I said before though, you might STILL have to do a bit of fiddling in the end to get them to work at or near their rated speed. And you might not. This is just the way it is with Ryzen when it comes to memory but there are plenty of folks who can help with that when the time comes if you find you need it.
G2 is pretty decent. I currently am running a 750w G2 in my overclocked rig. The only bad thing about the G2 units is that they use inline capacitors in the cables to achieve the great low levels of ripple they have, so if you decide at some point to custom sleeve the cables you have to cut the cables shorter to eliminate the inline caps, which of course causes ripple levels to increase to some degree. Probably not enough to be a major problem but since this is a highly sought after selling point of these units and increase in ripple is not desirable. The aftermarket and even the EVGA sourced aftermarket individually sleeved cables for it also lack the inline caps, so it's obviously doable, but those too result in higher ripple than with the regular cable set that comes with the unit.
Something like the Seasonic Prime Ultra Titanium units uses no inline capacitors, so doesn't have this problem. They achieve even better levels of ripple, electrical noise and voltage regulation without the need for external suppression.
G2 is pretty decent. I currently am running a 750w G2 in my overclocked rig. The only bad thing about the G2 units is that they use inline capacitors in the cables to achieve the great low levels of ripple they have, so if you decide at some point to custom sleeve the cables you have to cut the cables shorter to eliminate the inline caps, which of course causes ripple levels to increase to some degree. Probably not enough to be a major problem but since this is a highly sought after selling point of these units and increase in ripple is not desirable. The aftermarket and even the EVGA sourced aftermarket individually sleeved cables for it also lack the inline caps, so it's obviously doable, but those too result in higher ripple than with the regular cable set that comes with the unit.
Something like the Seasonic Prime Ultra Titanium units uses no inline capacitors, so doesn't have this problem. They achieve even better levels of ripple, electrical noise and voltage regulation without the need for external suppression.
The worship in the echo chamber for Ryzen is strong. Sorry for the unpopular and inconvenient facts. A 5% bump for the 2700x over a 1800x isn't going improve the situation enough, for high FPS high refresh rate gaming, which is the purpose of a GTX1080ti, the Ryzens are obviously gimping the performance, and they will be out of gas for even faster video cards like the RTX coming out about now.
But here is well established facts:
https://www.techspot.com/review/1505-intel-core-8th-gen-vs-amd-ryzen/page6.html
https://m.hardocp.com/article/2017/05/26/definitive_amd_ryzen_7_realworld_gaming_guide/13
"
Overall, the Intel Kaby Lake 7700K CPU at 5GHz Z270 system provided the highest performance while gaming. Didn’t matter if it was single-GPU, multi-GPU, 1080p, or 1440p, or 4K, the most wins (at least in terms of raw data) are with the 7700K at an overclocked 5GHz.
Overall, the AMD Ryzen 7 1700X at an overclocked 4GHz provided the same performance and gameplay experience as the Intel 2600K on Z68 at 4.5GHz. It was most competitive with the 2600K CPU with both overclocked to the highest levels.
In terms of gameplay experience we felt the 2600K and Ryzen CPUs "felt" the same while gaming in single-GPU at any resolution. We "felt" the 7700K at 5GHz had an experience advantage at all resolutions, and especially with multi-GPU CrossFire.
"
https://www.techspot.com/article/1496-pairing-cpu-and-gpu-bottlenecking/
http://www.legitreviews.com/cpu-bottleneck-geforce-gtx-1080-ti-tested-on-amd-ryzen-versus-intel-kaby-lake_192585/4
Anyone in a betting mood? We will know soon enough.
How many legitimate website, or heck Tom's is going to use only a Ryzen 2700x to bench the RTX 2080/ 2080ti?
My bet is that they will go with the 8700k or faster CPUs to eliminate the bottleneck, or to minimize gimping the video card. And the CPU impact to 1080p and 1440p benches will be clear and obvious.
Or do you even doubt Tom's scores:
https://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/cpu-hierarchy,4312.html
The 2700x is actually even slower than the 2600x.
How many legitimate website, or heck Tom's is going to use only a Ryzen 2700x to bench the RTX 2080/ 2080ti?
My bet is that they will go with the 8700k or faster CPUs to eliminate the bottleneck, or to minimize gimping the video card. And the CPU impact to 1080p and 1440p benches will be clear and obvious.
Or do you even doubt Tom's scores:
https://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/cpu-hierarchy,4312.html
The 2700x is actually even slower than the 2600x.
Darkbreeze
Retired Mod
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You are simply not worth responding to. Everything you say, in every thread you say it in, is complete and utter horse crap. I don't know know how you haven't been kicked off the island yet but I'm sure you will be before long.
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