[SOLVED] 3600 16-19-19-39 vs 3600 16-16-16-36 for I9 10900k

[Nathan11798]

Hey!
I'm building a new gaming pc for 144hz 2k gaming.
These are the parts I'm looking at:

I9 10900k
Rog strix z490-e gaming
Kraken X73 nzxt
850w corsair gold
3080 aorus master
Evo 980 pro 1tb
Cooler master h500p mesh
G.skill trident z neo 3600 16-19-19-39 or 3600 16-16-16-36

I can use some help with these 2 questions:

1. What do you think overall about the build?
2. Which ram you think will be the best for purely heavy gaming usage?

*Not planning on overclocking for now.

View: https://youtu.be/-dtVGpGFtSo


From this video I suppose it has nearly 0% difference in performance, but from the store I saw there's like ~100$ difference.

Thanks in advance!

 

[Darkbreeze]

Trident Z Neo kits are meant for use with AMD builds, they do not have timings that are favorable for Intel configurations. Avoid the Neo or Flare X kits when buying G.Skill memory for an Intel configuration.

A regular Trident Z kit that is not a Neo series kit, is fine. I'd probably stick with 3200mhz CL14 or 3600mhz CL 14 or CL15 kits, if you want high quality with very good snappy performance, but any of them at CL14-CL16 or lower are probably going to be fine. That includes the Ripjaws kits as well, many of which are just as good of quality as the Trident Z kits. Some are not however, but then some of the Trident Z kits aren't all that great either and have very high latencies.

Are you planning on 16 or 32GB?

Your video does not show Trident Z kits. It shows Corsair Vengeance and G.Skill Ripjaws, so it's really not all that relevant. Different kits might have HIGHLY different secondary or tertiary timings and sometimes those secondary and tertiary timings can have a meaningful impact on memory performance. Which is why you don't want to buy sticks meant for a different platform. Some kits are fine with both AMD and Intel but kits that were MEANT for one or the other should ONLY be used with that platform, unless you have no choice. You might suffer some penalties in latency or other timings to get them stable enough for use on a different platform, if they will run at all.

 

[Nathan11798]

Trident Z Neo kits are meant for use with AMD builds, they do not have timings that are favorable for Intel configurations. Avoid the Neo or Flare X kits when buying G.Skill memory for an Intel configuration.

A regular Trident Z kit that is not a Neo series kit, is fine. I'd probably stick with 3200mhz CL14 or 3600mhz CL 14 or CL15 kits, if you want high quality with very good snappy performance, but any of them at CL14-CL16 or lower are probably going to be fine. That includes the Ripjaws kits as well, many of which are just as good of quality as the Trident Z kits. Some are not however, but then some of the Trident Z kits aren't all that great either and have very high latencies.

Are you planning on 16 or 32GB?

Thanks for the reply!
I'm planning for 32gb.
About the neo not "comfortable" with Intel - are you sure? I read all over the internet that they should work just fine together and it's all marketing.
Would be cool if you can send me a link to a recommended kits of ram of 32gb total. Let's say until 300$.

 

[Darkbreeze]

Sure, they'll potentially run on there. There are a few of them that show as being validated on the G.Skill memory configurator for some of the Z490 boards, but I'm equally sure that it's not just marketing and that those kits WERE SPECIFICALLY DESIGNED AND BUILT by G.Skill to be compatible with AMD platforms that were having problems with memory compatibility using kits primarily meant for use on Intel platforms. So like I said, they may "work", but "working" and running at full efficiency with the best configuration of timings, including primary, secondary and tertiary timings, without the motherboard having to "dumb down" any of the memory settings in order to make them work and without ending up with a configuration that has troubles with some unexplained errors and other random issues, are not the same thing.

There aren't any real differences in price, so it makes no sense to not buy a kit with timings configured FOR the platform you intend to run them on. To me doing that isn't a lot different than running 2133mhz sticks in a system that can easily accommodate 3200mhz memory. Maybe it doesn't have the same extend of the impact on performance, but to some degree it's much the same in terms of intentionally kicking yourself in the junk.

Any of these kits would be a good choice. Keep in mind, a 3200mhz CL14 kit is actually FASTER than a 3600mhz CL16 kit. So a 3200mhz CL15 kit is right there in the mix with a 3600mhz CL16 kit and there probably isn't enough to really choose one over the other in a way that is going to be readily appreciable.

https://pcpartpicker.com/products/compare/sZwqqs,m3yV3C,YkKcCJ,4ctQzy/

In light of that same argument, any of these is probably going to be fine for you as well.

https://pcpartpicker.com/products/compare/jxH8TW,zcH8TW/

 

[Darkbreeze]

Keep in mind too, most of those people out there that are "saying things" like "it's all marketing" have little to no understanding at all, much less in any depth, about the effect (On in some cases, if we're being honest, even the existence) of secondary and most especially tertiary memory timings on compatibility or performance related auto configuration by the motherboard, so they really can't speak to something they have no understanding of.

if you want to understand a LITTLE more about these things, you can learn about them here:

https://www.overclock.net/threads/comprehensive-memory-overclocking-guide.1630388/#post-26096937

And here:

https://www.gamersnexus.net/guides/3333-memory-timings-defined-cas-latency-trcd-trp-tras

 

[Nathan11798]

Keep in mind too, most of those people out there that are "saying things" like "it's all marketing" have little to no understanding at all, much less in any depth, about the effect (On in some cases, if we're being honest, even the existence) of secondary and most especially tertiary memory timings on compatibility or performance related auto configuration by the motherboard, so they really can't speak to something they have no understanding of.

if you want to understand a LITTLE more about these things, you can learn about them here:

https://www.overclock.net/threads/comprehensive-memory-overclocking-guide.1630388/#post-26096937

And here:

https://www.gamersnexus.net/guides/3333-memory-timings-defined-cas-latency-trcd-trp-tras

I appriciate your answer, thank you!

Still, after a bit of searching, I found that video:

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=15UWXvKQrNU&feature=emb_logo&ab_channel=GamersNexus

At 7:24 Steve says that literally there is nearly no difference between ram that made for specific system to one that haven't, and it's completely fine to use it on both AMD and Intel based systems.

What do you think?

 

[Darkbreeze]

I respect Steve, but I don't always agree with everything he says. This is one of those cases, especially since he directly contradicts himself in the videos and content of the other GamersNexus link I posted above, if you really read and understand what you are reading.

And like I said, what is "completely fine" might have a 300% difference in context between what it means when one person says it and when another person says it. I understand that a Neo kit will absolutely run fine on a Z490 board without any doubt, IF it is validated for that board by the memory manufacturer (And possibly even if it's not, but certainly if it is) but whether it runs as well as another kit that was 100% meant for use on that platform, or at the very least WASN'T meant for use on another platform, it a whole other story. Anyhow, I've given you plenty of food for thought. Obviously what you do from here will be up to you.

My advice, do whatever you are going to do. It really doesn't make any difference to me. All I can do is offer you my own insights and hopefully that allows you to make the best, hopefully informed choice you can. If you find that there are any unexplained or memory related issues after you buy a Neo kit, then I guess you'll be forewarned and will have some understanding of why that's happening but I really don't see ANY advantage to buying one of those kits because they are not shinier, faster, cheaper, or better in any way than any of the other Trident Z or Ripjaws kits that have similar or at least on the surface, same specifications. I just don't understand why anybody WOULD want to even take that risk, no matter HOW minimal it is or is not.

But certainly, if for example you were able to get a Neo kit that was otherwise identical, from your buddy for half the cost of the other kits, then that might be a reason to make that purchase and to heck with any minor to moderate performance differences there might be. There could STILL potentially be compatibility issues though, even with non-NEO kits that are not validated for any given motherboard meaning they are for example listed as compatible on the G.Skill memory configurator, Corsair memory finder or Crucial advisor memory validation utilities found on those memory manufacturers websites, or the memory kit is listed as compatible on the motherboard QVL list.

 

[Nathan11798]

I respect Steve, but I don't always agree with everything he says. This is one of those cases, especially since he directly contradicts himself in the videos and content of the other GamersNexus link I posted above, if you really read and understand what you are reading.

And like I said, what is "completely fine" might have a 300% difference in context between what it means when one person says it and when another person says it. I understand that a Neo kit will absolutely run fine on a Z490 board without any doubt, IF it is validated for that board by the memory manufacturer (And possibly even if it's not, but certainly if it is) but whether it runs as well as another kit that was 100% meant for use on that platform, or at the very least WASN'T meant for use on another platform, it a whole other story. Anyhow, I've given you plenty of food for thought. Obviously what you do from here will be up to you.

My advice, do whatever you are going to do. It really doesn't make any difference to me. All I can do is offer you my own insights and hopefully that allows you to make the best, hopefully informed choice you can. If you find that there are any unexplained or memory related issues after you buy a Neo kit, then I guess you'll be forewarned and will have some understanding of why that's happening but I really don't see ANY advantage to buying one of those kits because they are not shinier, faster, cheaper, or better in any way than any of the other Trident Z or Ripjaws kits that have similar or at least on the surface, same specifications. I just don't understand why anybody WOULD want to even take that risk, no matter HOW minimal it is or is not.

But certainly, if for example you were able to get a Neo kit that was otherwise identical, from your buddy for half the cost of the other kits, then that might be a reason to make that purchase and to heck with any minor to moderate performance differences there might be. There could STILL potentially be compatibility issues though, even with non-NEO kits that are not validated for any given motherboard meaning they are for example listed as compatible on the G.Skill memory configurator, Corsair memory finder or Crucial advisor memory validation utilities found on those memory manufacturers websites, or the memory kit is listed as compatible on the motherboard QVL list.

Ok, Thanks Appriciate your help.

 

[Darkbreeze]

Of course. Anytime at all man.

 

[Nathan11798]

Of course. Anytime at all man.

G.SKILL Trident Z Royal Series 32GB (2 x 16GB) 288-Pin DDR4 SDRAM DDR4 3600 (PC4 28800) Intel XMP 2.0 Desktop Memory Model F4-3600C14D-32GTRG - Newegg.com
thought about these, what do you think?

 

[Darkbreeze]

I think they are excellent, superior memory modules, BUT, they are grossly overpriced for what you are getting. The difference in performance between those sticks and a set of 2 x16GB 3200mhz CL14 is significant. And on that Intel platform you are not really going to see a whole lot of tangible performance gains going from 3200mhz CL14 to 3600mhz CL-whatever, 14 or otherwise. It just doesn't really translate that much for the majority of things, especially gaming on an Intel platform.

I would put the extra money elsewhere UNLESS you have a lot of money to waste and are wanting them specifically for the aesthetic value of the kit.

 

[Nathan11798]

I think they are excellent, superior memory modules, BUT, they are grossly overpriced for what you are getting. The difference in performance between those sticks and a set of 2 x16GB 3200mhz CL14 is significant. And on that Intel platform you are not really going to see a whole lot of tangible performance gains going from 3200mhz CL14 to 3600mhz CL-whatever, 14 or otherwise. It just doesn't really translate that much for the majority of things, especially gaming on an Intel platform.

I would put the extra money elsewhere UNLESS you have a lot of money to waste and are wanting them specifically for the aesthetic value of the kit.

Thanks again for the reply!

Theses are about 60$ cheaper and with nice timings, thoughts?
G.SKILL TridentZ RGB Series 32GB (2 x 16GB) 288-Pin DDR4 SDRAM DDR4 3600 (PC4 28800) Desktop Memory Model F4-3600C16D-32GTZR - Newegg.com

 

[Darkbreeze]

Those are ok, but they are SLOWER than a 3200mhz CL14 kit if you can find one for less. The difference in performance between the two is very minimal though so whichever is cheaper is likely the better choice.

What are you doing that you actually NEED 32GB, if I may ask? I have a 32GB 3200mhz CL14 kit and to be honest even with some of the rather high end applications I run I very rarely see my RAM usage approach 16GB.

 

[Nathan11798]

Those are ok, but they are SLOWER than a 3200mhz CL14 kit if you can find one for less. The difference in performance between the two is very minimal though so whichever is cheaper is likely the better choice.

What are you doing that you actually NEED 32GB, if I may ask? I have a 32GB 3200mhz CL14 kit and to be honest even with some of the rather high end applications I run I very rarely see my RAM usage approach 16GB.

Gaming, but I'm always on 18gb ram while playing because I leave my chrome and other programs open.

Thanks for the help!!

 

[Darkbreeze]

Sure thing.

 

[Sohom]

I noticed the ripjaws 3600 mhz model is samsung b-die as i purchased them a few months ago... if u get the prices right, u can get that and try tightening the memory timings...

 

[Darkbreeze]

One of them might be. Not all of them are. G.Skill has like 36 different DDR4 3600mhz kits. And that's JUST for the US market.