Question 3600 or 3700x, and should i get X570 or just go with B450

[Shocking777]

Hello there, looking to build my new pc by the end of the week and i'm looking to buy the new ryzen 3000 series. I'm still torn apart between the 3600 or 3700x, i will be using my pc for gaming and maybe i will stream aswell. As to go with it, i'm looking for a good mobo but i wouldnt like to spend a lot of money on motherboards if i won't use most of its features. I dont think i need the X570 because im going to get an RTX 2070 super so it wont benefit the 4.0, but is it okay in terms of performance and longeability if i use any of the 2 processors with the B450? I'm looking to build a MicroAtx PC aswell if possible so i have my eyes set on ASrock B450M steel legend or the MSI b450m gaming plus. I would like both the PC and mobo to be future proof as i wouldnt want an upgrade for atleast the next 3 years

Thank you

 

[-Fran-]

To be on the safe side, go with the 3700X and a good B450/X470 unless you really need PCIe4. Make sure you find good RAM (3200+) and buy a strong PSU as they can suck quite a lot when they "self-OC" with PBO (boost/turbo thingy). PCIe3 NVMes and sATA SSDs are still good enough for disk duties. And I don't see PCIe 4 being a huge advantage for GPUs in the short term; not even the mid-term.

As for the case, there's plenty good options for ATX stuff in a compact form. I use a CM Elite 361 for my HTPC. It's quite dated, but if you look for something compact, that is an amazing case.

Cheers!

 

[CountMike]

First thing to look for is if a particular MB has BIOS ready for 3rd gen Ryzen, I can't find any that particularly state their BIOS is 100% compatible, only some vague staements like "Compatible with future Ryzen CPUs".
Secondly, for all round usage 3700x would certainly be better but 3600 is more budget friendly.

 

[feelinfroggy777]

If you want the best, go with the x570, but you wont notice a real world difference. The msi b450 gaming plus has the new bios for the 3rd gens support available and it has bios flashback. Bios flashback allows you to update the bios without a CPU which will be needed with a b450 board.

Dont worry about future proofing your mobo, it will be fine as long as the CPU is fine and the 3rd gen Ryzen chips will be good for a while.

As far as which CPU, I would spend my money on the GPU and go lighter on the CPU because the CPU just does not matter much for gaming. If you are going to stream a whole lot, then the extra cores of the 3700x will help, but if you are just streaming every now and then, the 3600 will be more than adequate and will save you enough money to move up to a better GPU and the GPU is the most important part of a gaming rig.

 

[ch33r]

Get the 3900X and X570. B450 is garbage. X570 has pcie 4.0 and other imporvements. All GPUs will use pcie 4 from now on so get that

 

[Shocking777]

To be on the safe side, go with the 3700X and a good B450/X470 unless you really need PCIe4. Make sure you find good RAM (3200+) and buy a strong PSU as they can suck quite a lot when they "self-OC" with PBO (boost/turbo thingy). PCIe3 NVMes and sATA SSDs are still good enough for disk duties. And I don't see PCIe 4 being a huge advantage for GPUs in the short term; not even the mid-term.

As for the case, there's plenty good options for ATX stuff in a compact form. I use a CM Elite 361 for my HTPC. It's quite dated, but if you look for something compact, that is an amazing case.

Cheers!

I think i'll be going with the 3700x, but it hasnt been released yet in my country (Indonesia), only the 3600 has been released. I'm thinking of getting MSI B450M mortar, 512GB Adata SPGX8200 SSD, 2TB of Seagate HDD, Seasonic 650W (the gold rated one), and for the case i'm leaning on Fractal Design Define Mini C (love the simplicity design)

Oh and how about the stock coolers for both the 3700x and 3600? are there any reviews that mentioned the coolers yet? i haven't seen it. I'm not planning on any overclocking so if the stock coolers are decent enought i'd rather save the money

 

[Shocking777]

First thing to look for is if a particular MB has BIOS ready for 3rd gen Ryzen, I can't find any that particularly state their BIOS is 100% compatible, only some vague staements like "Compatible with future Ryzen CPUs".
Secondly, for all round usage 3700x would certainly be better but 3600 is more budget friendly.

I read somewhere that MSI b450 motherboards are bios ready for 3rd gen ryzen, is it true? if so i'm planning on getting the b450m mortar

 

[Shocking777]

If you want the best, go with the x570, but you wont notice a real world difference. The msi b450 gaming plus has the new bios for the 3rd gens support available and it has bios flashback. Bios flashback allows you to update the bios without a CPU which will be needed with a b450 board.

Dont worry about future proofing your mobo, it will be fine as long as the CPU is fine and the 3rd gen Ryzen chips will be good for a while.

As far as which CPU, I would spend my money on the GPU and go lighter on the CPU because the CPU just does not matter much for gaming. If you are going to stream a whole lot, then the extra cores of the 3700x will help, but if you are just streaming every now and then, the 3600 will be more than adequate and will save you enough money to move up to a better GPU and the GPU is the most important part of a gaming rig.

How would you say the b450m gaming plus goes with the b450m mortar? from what i've read, the only thing that i can use from the mortar is USB 3.1, but is USB 3.1 actually useful?

oh and one think to mention is that games that i'd stream would be esports titles like csgo, pubg, etc, mostly competitive fps. would it be better just to go for the 3600 cause those titles arent very demanding? i'm gaming on 1080p 144hz so would prefer if i can make use of the refresh rate

 

[CountMike]

I read somewhere that MSI b450 motherboards are bios ready for 3rd gen ryzen, is it true? if so i'm planning on getting the b450m mortar

Yes, right here https://www.msi.com/Motherboard/support/B450M-MORTAR although I can't know if it comes with this last BIOS. It can be flashed even without compatible CPU. All instructions are there.
PS. For streaming more cores is desirable.
USB3.1 is faster than 3.0 but there is even newer and faster standards. That speed is useful if you have fast USB sticks or want to use USB to SATA adapter. I use several cheap SSDs with such an adapter instead of USB memory sticks, almost as fast as if connected to SATA. It also may be useful for fast cameras or external USB video cards.

 

[Shocking777]

Get the 3900X and X570. B450 is garbage. X570 has pcie 4.0 and other imporvements. All GPUs will use pcie 4 from now on so get that

3900X is out of my budget, the max i'd go with is a 3700X. I'm looking to get the RTX 2070 super and from what i've read is pcie 3.0. I wont be looking to upgrade my rig for the next 3 years, and if i'd do i'd probably change my whole setup. So would it still be worth it if i still go for the x570 and what other features would i get compared to the b450?

 

[ch33r]

Honestly, in that case use 3600X. It has a higher clock rate than the 3700X. It has 2 cores less, but if all you're doing is gaming, the higher clock rate will be more beneficial to you after 6 cores than the cores. Stick with X570. Sure B450 "will work" with the new Ryzens 3s, same with 470, but they won't work well and I bet any money there will be performance loss, simply because X570 was built with Ryzen 3000 in mind, X470 and B450 were not. Sure they will work, but probably not nearly as well.

 

[-Fran-]

Honestly, in that case use 3600X. It has a higher clock rate than the 3700X. It has 2 cores less, but if all you're doing is gaming, the higher clock rate will be more beneficial to you after 6 cores than the cores. Stick with X570. Sure B450 "will work" with the new Ryzens 3s, same with 470, but they won't work well and I bet any money there will be performance loss, simply because X570 was built with Ryzen 3000 in mind, X470 and B450 were not. Sure they will work, but probably not nearly as well.

Do you have any supporting evidence to the "they won't work well" statement?

Cheers!

 

[ch33r]

There hasn't been much said about it as far as I have read, but I sure as hell wouldn't trust it. Look at what happened with PCIe 4.0. They said X470 could support PCIe 4.0 with a bios update. Then they realized it will work, but it will have issues, so they backed out on that. They won't back out on that with CPUs, but I wouldn't be surprised if there were issues, namely to do with performance. It's your wallet, you do what you want with your money. But I sure as hell wouldn't trust it

 

[-Fran-]

There hasn't been much said about it as far as I have read, but I sure as hell wouldn't trust it. Look at what happened with PCIe 4.0. They said X470 could support PCIe 4.0 with a bios update. Then they realized it will work, but it will have issues, so they backed out on that. They won't back out on that with CPUs, but I wouldn't be surprised if there were issues, namely to do with performance. It's your wallet, you do what you want with your money. But I sure as hell wouldn't trust it

So it's only tinfoil theory?

Do you have anything more concise than that at least?

Cheers!

 

[drea.drechsler]

Hello there, looking to build my new pc by the end of the week and i'm looking to buy the new ryzen 3000 series. I'm still torn apart between the 3600 or 3700x, i will be using my pc for gaming and maybe i will stream aswell. As to go with it, i'm looking for a good mobo but i wouldnt like to spend a lot of money on motherboards if i won't use most of its features. I dont think i need the X570 because im going to get an RTX 2070 super so it wont benefit the 4.0, but is it okay in terms of performance and longeability if i use any of the 2 processors with the B450? I'm looking to build a MicroAtx PC aswell if possible so i have my eyes set on ASrock B450M steel legend or the MSI b450m gaming plus. I would like both the PC and mobo to be future proof as i wouldnt want an upgrade for atleast the next 3 years

Thank you

Why not consider the 3600X? Fewer cores than 3700X but it boosts as high, and higher than 3600. If you need the threads then the 3700X, of course. But as with the 2600, the gaming sweet spot will be 6 core/12 threads.

For best VRM look close at the MSI Gaming Plus... especially important if you opt for the 3700X. Steel Legend isn't bad, it's just got a hotter-running VRM.

 

[ch33r]

So it's only tinfoil theory?

Do you have anything more concise than that at least?

Cheers!

I understand you're trying to be budget friendly, but its better to spend the few extra dollars for an X570 than wish you had

 

[mitch074]

3900X is out of my budget, the max i'd go with is a 3700X. I'm looking to get the RTX 2070 super and from what i've read is pcie 3.0. I wont be looking to upgrade my rig for the next 3 years, and if i'd do i'd probably change my whole setup. So would it still be worth it if i still go for the x570 and what other features would i get compared to the b450?

Apart from PCI-E 4.0 (which may help with future M.2 NVMe SSDs), all you get from X570 is a crappy fan that WILL fail after a couple years and the same kind of stuff you'd get on X470, such as some more ports, slightly more stable memory paths on some better motherboards. Current benchmarks show the B450 to be perfectly able to handle Ryzen 3xxx with a BIOS update, so go for it; in 2-3 years, when you'll feel your rig is a bit too slow, you might just be able to get a Zen 3 for your system or decide to change everything altogether for a DDR5, PCI-E 5.0 based board.
Yes, I think the X570 should be kept for entry-level HEDT use cases; otherwise, B450 and X470 do cover most uses.
About the default coolers : it's still the same as the one found on the 2700X - and it's perfectly fine. I replaced mine with an old 12cm Noctua tower I already had, and I must say I was surprised by how little difference the swap caused - the Wraith coolers are very, VERY good.

 

[-Fran-]

I understand you're trying to be budget friendly, but its better to spend the few extra dollars for an X570 than wish you had

You do realize "extra" may as well mean 2x or 3x times the price, right? A good quality B450 that can overclock any Ryzen is around $120 and the cheapest X570 motherboards I found start at $190 with less features than the B450 board, except that is has PCIe 4...

Also, there's reviews with B450s running Ry3Ks, so I absolutely don't get your tinfoil theory.

Sometimes the answer is not "get a Ferrari" when you can just live with a Miata.

Cheers!

 

[ch33r]

You do realize "extra" may as well mean 2x or 3x times the price, right? A good quality B450 that can overclock any Ryzen is around $120 and the cheapest X570 motherboards I found start at $190 with less features than the B450 board, except that is has PCIe 4...

Also, there's reviews with B450s running Ry3Ks, so I absolutely don't get your tinfoil theory.

Sometimes the answer is not "get a Ferrari" when you can just live with a Miata.

Cheers!

2 or 3x the price? 190 is not 2 or 3x 120. Its about 1.6x...….. Yes B450 runs Ry3Ks.... right now.... and no issues have been discovered.... yet. That's true. They might be there, just not yet discovered. But you're rolling the dice. Lets remember, PCIe 4.0 didn't start having issues on older chipsets until after more testing was done. Can you imagine if you buy a B450/X470 and then they discover an issue before the parts even arrive at your door. Its unlikely, but it can happen. The issue can be a number of things, including but not limited to durability, performance, longevity, stable OCing, etc etc. Also, X570 will have more support than X470, is more future proofed. All GPUs and SSDs from here on in will be PCIe4.0. X570 will likely work on 4th Gen Ryzen, so you can CPU swap anytime. New GPUs with PCIe4.0 coming out, you can just swap anytime. X470 is basically at end of life, besides BIOS update to hopefully support Ryzen 3 without issues. The only reason AMD decided to support R3 on X470 is so that people who already have X470 boards, and are considering switching to intel are far less likely to do it because they would have to buy a new board. So they decided that if they support R3, consumers know they can just swap chip and keep it cheap, thus sticking to AMD. Its called business. Yes, its a good idea. But I wouldn't trust the support. You are building a NEW build, and you want to keep everything current. If you already had an X470 board and we're just upgrading, I would say ya... fantastic idea. But its a new build, go with what's current.

 

[-Fran-]

2 or 3x the price? 190 is not 2 or 3x 120. Its about 1.6x...….. Yes B450 runs Ry3Ks.... right now.... and no issues have been discovered.... yet. That's true. They might be there, just not yet discovered. But you're rolling the dice. Lets remember, PCIe 4.0 didn't start having issues on older chipsets until after more testing was done. Can you imagine if you buy a B450/X470 and then they discover an issue before the parts even arrive at your door. Its unlikely, but it can happen. The issue can be a number of things, including but not limited to durability, performance, longevity, stable OCing, etc etc. Also, X570 will have more support than X470, is more future proofed. All GPUs and SSDs from here on in will be PCIe4.0. X570 will likely work on 4th Gen Ryzen, so you can CPU swap anytime. New GPUs with PCIe4.0 coming out, you can just swap anytime. X470 is basically at end of life, besides BIOS update to hopefully support Ryzen 3 without issues. The only reason AMD decided to support R3 on X470 is so that people who already have X470 boards, and are considering switching to intel are far less likely to do it because they would have to buy a new board. So they decided that if they support R3, consumers know they can just swap chip and keep it cheap, thus sticking to AMD. Its called business. Yes, its a good idea. But I wouldn't trust the support. You are building a NEW build, and you want to keep everything current. If you already had an X470 boards and we're just upgrading, I would say ya... fantastic idea. But its a new build, go with what's current.

When doing apples to apples, then it is 2x the prices at least. I already looked around before I typed that comment, but you seems to have ignored the "barebones motherboard vs feature rich" comment.

Also, you're still talking about "chance". There's a thing called "warranty" you can always use if the motherboard fails, but that "chance" applies to all motherboards. If you think Motherboard vendors will release official Ryzen 3K support into their motherboards without testing, you're awfully wrong. You said so yourself: AMD stopped them from slapping a "PCIe4 ready" sticker, so they have already talked to the manufacturers about support and have had plenty of time to do so. Worst case scenario, you'll have to upgrade your BIOS again for stability. Hell, even I had to upgrade mine a couple times for my Ry2700X and I have a friggen Crosshair VII.

I really don't understand why you are so wary of skipping the X570 if it turns out to be too expensive as a platform and instead use a proven and tested B450. On the other hand, I don't see prices being outrageously high like it was hinted at initially. All good high end motherboards had 5+ layers anyway, so they are within old day1 X470 prices of high end motherboards.

In fact, speaking frankly, I'd even tell people to wait for BIOS upgrades on more X570. A lot of reviewers had issues with some of them, so there's even evidence of the contrary of what you're saying. Ironic.

Cheers!

 

[ch33r]

When doing apples to apples, then it is 2x the prices at least. I already looked around before I typed that comment, but you seems to have ignored the "barebones motherboard vs feature rich" comment.

Also, you're still talking about "chance". There's a thing called "warranty" you can always use if the motherboard fails, but that "chance" applies to all motherboards. If you think Motherboard vendors will release official Ryzen 3K support into their motherboards without testing, you're awfully wrong. You said so yourself: AMD stopped them from slapping a "PCIe4 ready" sticker, so they have already talked to the manufacturers about support and have had plenty of time to do so. Worst case scenario, you'll have to upgrade your BIOS again for stability. Hell, even I had to upgrade mine a couple times for my Ry2700X and I have a friggen Crosshair VII.

I really don't understand why you are so wary of skipping the X570 if it turns out to be too expensive as a platform and instead use a proven and tested B450. On the other hand, I don't see prices being outrageously high like it was hinted at initially. All good high end motherboards had 5+ layers anyway, so they are within old day1 X470 prices of high end motherboards.

In fact, speaking frankly, I'd even tell people to wait for BIOS upgrades on more X570. A lot of reviewers had issues with some of them, so there's even evidence of the contrary of what you're saying. Ironic.

Cheers!

Then ya gotta warranty, RMA, send it back, wait 6 weeks, blah blah blah. Not worth it. On a budget build, you don't need a feature rich board, especially for a tiny chip like the 3600X. Any X570 board will do fine. AMD stopped the "PCIe ready" sticker.... after starting it. Why did they start and stop it? Maybe because they tested it like you said, it had no issues so they started it. Then issues we're discovered after the fact, so they stopped it. Now extrapolate that to "Ryzen 3 ready" sticker.

 

[mitch074]

[...]Why did they start and stop it? Maybe because they tested it like you said, it had no issues so they started it. Then issues we're discovered after the fact, so they stopped it. Now extrapolate that to "Ryzen 3 ready" sticker.

There is a world between trying to enable a feature that may hit hardware limitations, and one where the only problems one may have are found within the firmware - wattage, interface clock speeds and traces have remained the same between Zen+ and Zen 2. The only limit one might hit is when trying to use overclocked RAM on such a board - but then, we're talking speeds above 3600 MHz, where Ryzen 2 could actually lose performance due to the memory controller's clock divider being enabled for higher speeds.
As such, the "ready for PCIe4" sticker may have been a mistake that only in-the-field testing could reveal (and do note that some people tested the beta BIOS that enabled it successfully, so it may have been very close to being widely viable) but the "Ryzen 3 ready" sticker should work as well as "Ryzen 2 ready" worked back then.

 

[-Fran-]

Then ya gotta warranty, RMA, send it back, wait 6 weeks, blah blah blah. Not worth it. On a budget build, you don't need a feature rich board, especially for a tiny chip like the 3600X. Any X570 board will do fine. AMD stopped the "PCIe ready" sticker.... after starting it. Why did they start and stop it? Maybe because they tested it like you said, it had no issues so they started it. Then issues we're discovered after the fact, so they stopped it. Now extrapolate that to "Ryzen 3 ready" sticker.

You are making no sense... Whenever you have to make use of warranty, that would be the case. My point was around you have about the same chance of having a general problem with the motherboard as you'd get with Ry3K not working as expected that would require to return the motherboard. I'd even say it's less than your average problem.

I'll stop here and just keep thinking you're pushing an agenda with your argument as it makes no sense to me.

Cheers!

 

[Shocking777]

z

Why not consider the 3600X? Fewer cores than 3700X but it boosts as high, and higher than 3600. If you need the threads then the 3700X, of course. But as with the 2600, the gaming sweet spot will be 6 core/12 threads.

For best VRM look close at the MSI Gaming Plus... especially important if you opt for the 3700X. Steel Legend isn't bad, it's just got a hotter-running VRM.

I saw a benchmark (forgot which one) and it showed almost the same fps as the 3600 so i guess it wasnt worth the extra money, but if it offers solid performance i'd consider it! i'm still looking for some benchmarks for the 3600x with the 3600 and 3700x comparison but couldnt find one yet.

Looking at the b450m steel legends, looks like it has cool features with a cheaper price compared to MSI's mortar. It should be compatible with the Ryzen 3000 right? have they released the bios update and etc in order to use it for the 3000 series?

Thanks!

 

[TJ Hooker]

Looking at the b450m steel legends, looks like it has cool features with a cheaper price compared to MSI's mortar. It should be compatible with the Ryzen 3000 right? have they released the bios update and etc in order to use it for the 3000 series?

You'd need to verify that it comes with the right BIOS. If you're buying it in store it should have a "ready for ryzen 3000" sticker on it.