Question 3700x single core boost

Fiorezy

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Jul 3, 2020
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The best single core clock reached by my 3700x was 3330 at 63c, this was with PBO enabled after many hours of testing, with stock settings I get 3200 at 60c. Why it is not reaching 4400 even though I still have plenty of headroom for temps.

Even for multicore the best I could get was 4050 at 74c.

MSI MPG x570 Gaming Plus
Latest BIOS update
Cooler: MA620M
RAM: 2x8 3200 CL16
Room temp: 30-40c
 
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Darkbreeze

Titan
Moderator
Well, to start with, you have a cooler that lacks having good performance.


Adding to that is the fact that you have an ambient temp that is very high at 30-40°C.

This is compounded by having an MSI motherboard that does NOT have the sort of outstanding VRM configuration they put on their Previous Gen B450 and X470 boards, but charged more for, and are very disappointing.

Altogether, I'd say you are experiencing some form of thermal throttling, probably due to VRM or chipset temperatures, but there ARE a few things you could do about it to try and help alleviate some of it.

First, go to the AMD website, download and install the latest AMD X570 chipset driver package. Don't use the one from the MSI website, use the one from AMD.

Next, restart the system, then go into the Windows power plan and make sure that the Ryzen balanced plan is selected. Then click on "Change plan settings", then Change advanced power settings, then expand "Processor power management" setting and set the minimum to 5-8% if it is not already set to that. Save settings and exit the power applet.

Go into the BIOS and make sure all of the following are set as recommended.

Enable Cool N Quiet

CPPC preferred cores - Enabled

Advanced or Global C-states - Enabled

Make sure you have your memory installed in the 2nd DIMM slot over from the CPU and the 4th DIMM slot over from the CPU. This is important. Also, make sure that A-XMP or XMP is enabled in the memory section of the BIOS.

Beyond that, we need to know what case you have, how many case fans you have and how you have ALL of them arranged including location and direction/orientation?
 

Fiorezy

Great
Jul 3, 2020
125
16
95
2
Well, to start with, you have a cooler that lacks having good performance.


Adding to that is the fact that you have an ambient temp that is very high at 30-40°C.

This is compounded by having an MSI motherboard that does NOT have the sort of outstanding VRM configuration they put on their Previous Gen B450 and X470 boards, but charged more for, and are very disappointing.

Altogether, I'd say you are experiencing some form of thermal throttling, probably due to VRM or chipset temperatures, but there ARE a few things you could do about it to try and help alleviate some of it.

First, go to the AMD website, download and install the latest AMD X570 chipset driver package. Don't use the one from the MSI website, use the one from AMD.

Next, restart the system, then go into the Windows power plan and make sure that the Ryzen balanced plan is selected. Then click on "Change plan settings", then Change advanced power settings, then expand "Processor power management" setting and set the minimum to 5-8% if it is not already set to that. Save settings and exit the power applet.

Go into the BIOS and make sure all of the following are set as recommended.

Enable Cool N Quiet

CPPC preferred cores - Enabled

Advanced or Global C-states - Enabled

Make sure you have your memory installed in the 2nd DIMM slot over from the CPU and the 4th DIMM slot over from the CPU. This is important. Also, make sure that A-XMP or XMP is enabled in the memory section of the BIOS.

Beyond that, we need to know what case you have, how many case fans you have and how you have ALL of them arranged including location and direction/orientation?
In all the reviews it's been proven that the MA620M has a great cooling performance, one of them showed that it is 1c hotter than the NH-U12A under full load. With the Wraith Prism, I had 88-92c in Cinebench and now I'm having 76c with PBO enabled and +200MHz, and I was not expecting better results in such ambient temperature.

Regarding the mobo, yes it could be that and I kinda regret buying the x570 instead of B450, I got it because the AMD 3000 ready version was not available in my country.

As for the case, I have the Sharkoon DG7000 from my 2 years old build, it has preinstalled 2x140mm front intake fans and a rear 1x140mm exhaust fan, it is not the best looking case but it has decent airflow, dust filters and all the features that I need. And to save you time, all the fans and the case itself are clean.

RAM is already installed in the 2nd and 4th DIMM and A-XMP is enabled.

The latest chipset is already installed from the AMD website, AMD balanced power plan is enabled too though I made the change as you said, I also altered the settings in the BIOS but I couldn't find the Quiet N Cool feature anywhere in the BIOS?

However, I saw no improvement after changing the BIOS settings.
 

Darkbreeze

Titan
Moderator
It's not necessarily an X570 problem, it's just that the MSI X570 boards have very problematic VRM configurations compared to their B450 offerings. For B450, MSI has some of the best boards you can get. For X570, they have some of the worst.

I'm familiar with that case, it's definitely not one of the worst ones out there. It's ok. Not great, not terrible either.

I don't know what reviews you're looking at that claim to "prove" that the MA620M is a good cooler, but the fact is this is what the top review sites had to say about it:

KitGuru

Unfortunately, looks aren’t everything, especially where CPU coolers are concerned. A CPU cooler’s primary objective should be to keep the temperature under control, this is one area where the Cooler Master MasterAir MA620M falls short, especially when overclocking comes into the equation.

During our initial stress tests at stock CPU frequency, the MA620M kept our Core i9-9900K within its operating temperature range. By no means was it up there with some of the best coolers we tested, but it did an OK job.

Once we pushed the CPU further with higher frequencies, this is where the MA620M started to struggle. In our basic overclocking stress test at 4.7 GHz, CPU temperature did start to rise quite rapidly, and while it never reached the thermal limit of the CPU, it did get close.

However, during our final ‘extreme’ stress test with the CPU overclocked to 4.9 GHz on all cores, the Cooler Master MasterAir MA620M was unable to prevent thermal throttling of the CPU.

TweakPC.de

Regarding the cooling performance, the MA620M unfortunately falls short of expectations for the target price. Although it delivers a good deal in the overall package, the maximum performance is probably a bit weak on the chest due to the fan.
HardwareLuxx

However, the cooler could not get the hoped-for cooling performance in our test. The performance at reduced speed leaves a lot to be desired. At full (and rather unbearable) maximum speed, the 90-euro cooler is just at the level of affordable entry-level models.
So that's three of the four reviews that even exist for this product, and the fourth one was done here, by Tom's hardware. That review had favorable things to say, but our site always says good things about Cooler master products even when they suck, so I don't pay much attention to them when everybody else has distinctly opposite impressions.

My guess is that your problem is a combination of the high hot ambient African temps, a motherboard that has known issues with VRM throttling and a CPU cooler that really isn't all that good.

I would suggest taking some screenshots in HWinfo (NOT HWmonitor or any other utility, ONLY HWinfo) of the OTHER, non-Core temps, when you see performance tank, and we can look to see what's going on. Also, HWinfo SHOULD have a listing in there that tells you if your system is experiencing thermal throttling, although it's not always accurate on Ryzen systems.

Be sure to run the "Sensors only" option when you open HWinfo. Unselect the "Summary" option.
 
Reactions: Fiorezy

Fiorezy

Great
Jul 3, 2020
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2
It's not necessarily an X570 problem, it's just that the MSI X570 boards have very problematic VRM configurations compared to their B450 offerings. For B450, MSI has some of the best boards you can get. For X570, they have some of the worst.

I'm familiar with that case, it's definitely not one of the worst ones out there. It's ok. Not great, not terrible either.

I don't know what reviews you're looking at that claim to "prove" that the MA620M is a good cooler, but the fact is this is what the top review sites had to say about it:

KitGuru




TweakPC.de



HardwareLuxx



So that's three of the four reviews that even exist for this product, and the fourth one was done here, by Tom's hardware. That review had favorable things to say, but our site always says good things about Cooler master products even when they suck, so I don't pay much attention to them when everybody else has distinctly opposite impressions.

My guess is that your problem is a combination of the high hot ambient African temps, a motherboard that has known issues with VRM throttling and a CPU cooler that really isn't all that good.

I would suggest taking some screenshots in HWinfo (NOT HWmonitor or any other utility, ONLY HWinfo) of the OTHER, non-Core temps, when you see performance tank, and we can look to see what's going on. Also, HWinfo SHOULD have a listing in there that tells you if your system is experiencing thermal throttling, although it's not always accurate on Ryzen systems.

Be sure to run the "Sensors only" option when you open HWinfo. Unselect the "Summary" option.
Thanks for trying to help, I'm actually done with this, I reverted all settings to stock, and with the lower ambient temperature in the last couple of days (~28c) I'm getting 4350 single core clock at 60c and 4080 multi-core on Cinebench R20 at 70c. This is more than enough for me.
 

Zerk2012

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Ambassador
Thanks for trying to help, I'm actually done with this, I reverted all settings to stock, and with the lower ambient temperature in the last couple of days (~28c) I'm getting 4350 single core clock at 60c and 4080 multi-core on Cinebench R20 at 70c. This is more than enough for me.
This is not just you. I would call it false advertisement myself. This is another reason I had rather pay the extra price for Intel (just my personal opinion)

https://venturebeat.com/2019/09/04/amds-ryzen-boost-clocks-are-a-problem-but-not-for-you/

You also must love this for Intel. I think a lot of people were waiting to upgrade their 3XXX and 4XXX Intel processors like I was and the 10600K price was good for that.

Intel grew revenues 20% to $19.7 billion in Q2 2020, but key manufacturing upgrade delayed
 
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Fiorezy

Great
Jul 3, 2020
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This is not just you. I would call it false advertisement myself. This is another reason I had rather pay the extra price for Intel (just my personal opinion)

https://venturebeat.com/2019/09/04/amds-ryzen-boost-clocks-are-a-problem-but-not-for-you/

You also must love this for Intel. I think a lot of people were waiting to upgrade their 3XXX and 4XXX Intel processors like I was and the 10600K price was good for that.

Intel grew revenues 20% to $19.7 billion in Q2 2020, but key manufacturing upgrade delayed
You are right, maybe Intel CPUs are more expensive and less powerful in multiclock performance but at least they are stable and they offer you what you paid for, unlike AMD with all the bugs and and the tweaks that you need to do to get closer to the advertised boost clock. In the article, AMD said that they are fixing the issue by September 10 which is almost 1 year ago, but it is still the same and nothing got fixed.

I am going to stick with my 3700x for at least 2 more years and for my next upgrade I am going with Intel if this crap with AMD is still going.
 

GarrettL

Respectable
Dec 4, 2019
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My 3800x and x570 is the first AMD I’ve had since Athlon. All Intel in between.

I have no issues hitting advertised PBO with a 2070S and Corsair H60 AIO in a NZXT 500H. CPU temp maxes out at 74C and the gpu 55C. Ambient 72-74F

I’ve had no issues since the first boot. Just set everything on automatic in BIOS with PBO and DOCP enabled.

No complaints from me whatsoever.

Competition is the consumers best fried.
 

Zerk2012

Titan
Ambassador
You are right, maybe Intel CPUs are more expensive and less powerful in multiclock performance but at least they are stable and they offer you what you paid for, unlike AMD with all the bugs and and the tweaks that you need to do to get closer to the advertised boost clock. In the article, AMD said that they are fixing the issue by September 10 which is almost 1 year ago, but it is still the same and nothing got fixed.

I am going to stick with my 3700x for at least 2 more years and for my next upgrade I am going with Intel if this crap with AMD is still going.
Their nothing wrong with AMD their a good budget processor and have made big improvements since the FX series (during the FX series I was still building with the 955 black because it beat the FX X1XX series and matched the X2XX series on the AM3 platform for a lower price.

I guess I'm a Intel fanboy if you can label people but their pure performance is hard to beat even though you got to pay more for what you get.

I used a Intel 4790K for gaming and work programs for years then my work load picked up (freelance) then added a 2700X PC for the rendering only part (via hot swap bays) so I could continue working or switch to gaming while my work rendered. Finish one project swap the project to the AMD for rendering and keep working on my Intel system.
 

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