[40k] Surprise, surprise, another contradiction in the CSM..

G

Guest

Guest
Archived from groups: rec.games.miniatures.warhammer (More info?)

Well, I accidentally found out from the FLGS that my aunt has picked up a
box of Thousand Sons minis for my birthday. This is fine by me: some of you
may remember that before I chose Word Bearers for my CSMs, I was looking
hard at a KSons army. I love the minis and am happy for an excuse to
acquire some, so I'm now looking at a new cash-cheap, incredibly
point-spendy army! However, while I was sitting around playing with the old
ideas I had for a very characterful KSons force, I came across what looks
like a big contradiction. On p. 49 of the CSM Codex there's a heading
entitled "Weaponry of the Followers of Tzeentch." Under the subheading
"Chaos Marines" it says:

"Apart from Aspiring Champions all models must use bolters as their standard
weaponry and cannot upgrade any weaponry...."

However, Possessed (the only other Chaos Marine unit that can take the Mark
of Tzeentch) carry bolt pistols and close combat weapons; they _do not_ have
the option to choose between BPs/CCWs and Bolters, or take
plasma/meltas/etc. My guess is that GW simply meant to require 'normal'
Chaos Marines with the MoT - that is to say, Thousand Sons - to use _only_
bolters, not BPs and not any of the other normal optional/special/heavy
weapons open to unMarked CSMs.

Under this interpretation, the Possessed, who have NO optional weapons other
than the BP/CCW combo should not be included under that rule. However, I've
gone wrong before trying to assume a "rational" interpretation of GW rules
as opposed to an apparently contradictory literalist reading. Surprising
no-one, the FAQ is silent on this point. Am I correct in assuming that
Possessed with the MoT can go on carrying their BP/CCWs? If so, they really
should have been listed with the Chosen subheading on p. 49 for the "No
Special Restrictions" comment, but that would have meant things would be
clear and easy to follow, so we all know that wasn't going to happen.

Has anyone seen KSon possessed at an "official" GW tourney? How were they
armed? This might wind up not mattering, as I'm seriously considering
giving them all Daemonic Talons, but I'd prefer to know what the official
stance on this is.

Thanks,

--
Ken Coble

That which does not kill us makes us stranger.
-Trevor Goodchild, _Aeon Flux_
 
G

Guest

Guest
Archived from groups: rec.games.miniatures.warhammer (More info?)

"Kenneth Coble" <flintlocklaser@triad.rr.com> wrote in message news:<8Ez8e.82775$9v2.1829458@twister.southeast.rr.com>...
> Well, I accidentally found out from the FLGS that my aunt has picked up a
> box of Thousand Sons minis for my birthday. This is fine by me: some of you
> may remember that before I chose Word Bearers for my CSMs, I was looking
> hard at a KSons army. I love the minis and am happy for an excuse to
> acquire some, so I'm now looking at a new cash-cheap, incredibly
> point-spendy army! However, while I was sitting around playing with the old
> ideas I had for a very characterful KSons force, I came across what looks
> like a big contradiction. On p. 49 of the CSM Codex there's a heading
> entitled "Weaponry of the Followers of Tzeentch." Under the subheading
> "Chaos Marines" it says:
>
> "Apart from Aspiring Champions all models must use bolters as their standard
> weaponry and cannot upgrade any weaponry...."
>
> However, Possessed (the only other Chaos Marine unit that can take the Mark
> of Tzeentch) carry bolt pistols and close combat weapons; they _do not_ have
> the option to choose between BPs/CCWs and Bolters, or take
> plasma/meltas/etc. My guess is that GW simply meant to require 'normal'
> Chaos Marines with the MoT - that is to say, Thousand Sons - to use _only_
> bolters, not BPs and not any of the other normal optional/special/heavy
> weapons open to unMarked CSMs.

To be fair, it makes little enough fluff sense for the Thousand Sons
to use Possessed at all - what is there to possess? The error here
seems to be in forgetting to disallow Possessed to the Thousand Sons,
not in their armament.

Philip Bowles
 
G

Guest

Guest
Archived from groups: rec.games.miniatures.warhammer (More info?)

Philip Bowles wrote:
> "Kenneth Coble" <flintlocklaser@triad.rr.com> wrote in message
> news:<8Ez8e.82775$9v2.1829458@twister.southeast.rr.com>...
>> Well, I accidentally found out from the FLGS that my aunt has picked
>> up a box of Thousand Sons minis for my birthday. This is fine by
>> me: some of you may remember that before I chose Word Bearers for my
>> CSMs, I was looking hard at a KSons army. I love the minis and am
>> happy for an excuse to acquire some, so I'm now looking at a new
>> cash-cheap, incredibly point-spendy army! However, while I was
>> sitting around playing with the old ideas I had for a very
>> characterful KSons force, I came across what looks like a big
>> contradiction. On p. 49 of the CSM Codex there's a heading entitled
>> "Weaponry of the Followers of Tzeentch." Under the subheading
>> "Chaos Marines" it says:
>>
>> "Apart from Aspiring Champions all models must use bolters as their
>> standard weaponry and cannot upgrade any weaponry...."
>>
>> However, Possessed (the only other Chaos Marine unit that can take
>> the Mark of Tzeentch) carry bolt pistols and close combat weapons;
>> they _do not_ have the option to choose between BPs/CCWs and
>> Bolters, or take plasma/meltas/etc. My guess is that GW simply
>> meant to require 'normal' Chaos Marines with the MoT - that is to
>> say, Thousand Sons - to use _only_ bolters, not BPs and not any of
>> the other normal optional/special/heavy weapons open to unMarked
>> CSMs.
>
> To be fair, it makes little enough fluff sense for the Thousand Sons
> to use Possessed at all - what is there to possess? The error here
> seems to be in forgetting to disallow Possessed to the Thousand Sons,
> not in their armament.
>

Well, here's what I understand of the Rubric was that all the KSons who had
no psychic abilities got turned into the "classic" animated armor-type,
while the ones with some psychic powers remained as they were. So my take
was that the Possessed I'll be fielding were either:
1)KSons who were more mutated than the Chosen, but still had enough psychic
abilities to escape being turned to dust, or
2)Traitors, CSMs from other chapters, or captives who either voluntarily or
under duress have been mutated by exposure/devotion to Tzeentch.

If it make you feel any better, I'll be giving most, if not all, of the
Possessed at least minor psychic powers. Yes, they'll be a giant walking
point sink: rough calculations looks like my planned unit of 9 will run
around 400-500 points, and god only knows if they'd ever earn it back.

If you search Google for my name and KSons one or two threads will show up -
my idea was for a couple of the "official" KSons units, one of Possessed in
various color schemes representing their origins, and a unit of Chosen
sorcerers painted in the old, Pre-Heresy KSons livery. Further down the
road, I was going to try and convert a Rhino for the Possessed that looked
like they'd been trying to claw their way out of it. I've found a bunch of
the RAFM Call of Cthulhu minis that I'll use for Spawns created by multiple
instances of Gift of Chaos. I also think their Hounds of Tindalos minis
look much more appropriate for Tzeentch Chaos Hounds than the GW ones, which
are far too Khornate for my taste. Here's a link if you're curious:

http://www.rafm.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=RAF&Product_Code=RAF02933

In any event, the whole force should be a huge eyesore, but I'll enjoy
fielding it. If I decide to give the Possessed the Daemonic Flight
advantage, some will have wings, some will be on scratchbuilt miniature
Discs of Tzeentch, and some will be levitating via the mystic power of spare
flying bases...

--
Ken Coble

That which does not kill us makes us stranger.
-Trevor Goodchild, _Aeon Flux_
 
G

Guest

Guest
Archived from groups: rec.games.miniatures.warhammer (More info?)

"Kenneth Coble" <flintlocklaser@triad.rr.com> wrote in message
news:8Ez8e.82775$9v2.1829458@twister.southeast.rr.com...

> "Apart from Aspiring Champions all models must use bolters as their
> standard weaponry and cannot upgrade any weaponry...."

they mean standard CSM troops units, not possessed, chosen etc.
non-champion models with the Sorcerer ability (e.g. chosen) can also have
psychic abilities and equipment from the armory (just not daemonic gifts and
so on).
 
G

Guest

Guest
Archived from groups: rec.games.miniatures.warhammer (More info?)

"Philip Bowles" <pbowles@aol.com> wrote in message
news:587631d1.0504171704.307c6fff@posting.google.com...
> "Kenneth Coble" <flintlocklaser@triad.rr.com> wrote in message
> news:<8Ez8e.82775$9v2.1829458@twister.southeast.rr.com>...

> To be fair, it makes little enough fluff sense for the Thousand Sons
> to use Possessed at all - what is there to possess?

I think they represent the remaining "devolved" thousand sons, as well as
renegades from other legions and so on.
 
G

Guest

Guest
Archived from groups: rec.games.miniatures.warhammer (More info?)

> Kenneth Coble wrote:
>
> If it make you feel any better, I'll be giving most, if not all, of the
> Possessed at least minor psychic powers. Yes, they'll be a giant walking
> point sink: rough calculations looks like my planned unit of 9 will run
> around 400-500 points, and god only knows if they'd ever earn it back.

A friend of mine sometimes fields a unit of 9 Possessed, all with the
Mark of Tzeentch. He gives them all Gift of Chaos, and then attaches a
Sorcerer with Gift of Chaos, Warp Focus, Mass Mutation, and a Chaos
Spawn. If the unit ever gets into assault it starts transforming
everything in sight into Chaos Spawn; if you don't cripple it before it
reaches its first victim, you have more wounds to chew through than you
know what to do with. It's really expensive and kind of gimmicky, but
hilarious to see the look of an opponent who hasn't faced it before when
he realizes what is happening. He loses a lot anyways, but it's pretty
amusing.

On rare occasions, his Mass Mutation roll comes up with Daemonic
Resilience, which makes the entire squad majority T5 and allows to
allocate most/all wounds to the spawn.

KH
 
G

Guest

Guest
Archived from groups: rec.games.miniatures.warhammer (More info?)

Keith Hann wrote:
>> Kenneth Coble wrote:
>>
>> If it make you feel any better, I'll be giving most, if not all, of
>> the Possessed at least minor psychic powers. Yes, they'll be a
>> giant walking point sink: rough calculations looks like my planned
>> unit of 9 will run around 400-500 points, and god only knows if
>> they'd ever earn it back.
>
> A friend of mine sometimes fields a unit of 9 Possessed, all with the
> Mark of Tzeentch. He gives them all Gift of Chaos, and then attaches
> a Sorcerer with Gift of Chaos, Warp Focus, Mass Mutation, and a Chaos
> Spawn. If the unit ever gets into assault it starts transforming
> everything in sight into Chaos Spawn; if you don't cripple it before
> it reaches its first victim, you have more wounds to chew through
> than you know what to do with. It's really expensive and kind of
> gimmicky, but hilarious to see the look of an opponent who hasn't
> faced it before when he realizes what is happening. He loses a lot
> anyways, but it's pretty amusing.
>
> On rare occasions, his Mass Mutation roll comes up with Daemonic
> Resilience, which makes the entire squad majority T5 and allows to
> allocate most/all wounds to the spawn.
>

I was thinking about doing the multiple Gifts of Chaos for this unit in
higher-point games. To top off the stupidity, I was also thinking about
giving them Flight as their unit mutation, which would make them cost 67
points apiece; hence the unit of 9 (even with the free AspChamp upgrade!)
would cost about 650 points, give or take. The problem is that if I give
them flight, they can't start off with Spawns or Thralls; and if they
created any Spawn they couldn't fly any more.

But I'll admit I'm still shaky on stuff like mixed armour/mixed toughness
combat resolution - I thought that wound allocation (roughly) worked in
'bands' by save type, majority first; isn't the important thing that the
Spawns have the same armour save as the Possessed? Or did you just mean
that if the Possessed had T5 it was that much harder to wound them in the
first place?
--
Ken Coble

That which does not kill us makes us stranger.
-Trevor Goodchild, _Aeon Flux_
 
G

Guest

Guest
Archived from groups: rec.games.miniatures.warhammer (More info?)

> Kenneth Coble wrote:
>
> But I'll admit I'm still shaky on stuff like mixed armour/mixed toughness
> combat resolution - I thought that wound allocation (roughly) worked in
> 'bands' by save type, majority first; isn't the important thing that the
> Spawns have the same armour save as the Possessed? Or did you just mean
> that if the Possessed had T5 it was that much harder to wound them in the
> first place?

Oh yeah, I forgot how it properly works. The first thing you do in this
procedure is determine majority Toughness. So, he benefits from the
unit being majority Toughness 5, so that all shots are rolled to wound
against T5. From there he would still have to allocate those wounds to
his Possessed if they were the majority armour save in the squad, but at
least they'd be taking fewer wounds. Eventually there are more Spawn
than Possessed, and then it gets real fun.

Sorry for the confusion.

KH
 
G

Guest

Guest
Archived from groups: rec.games.miniatures.warhammer (More info?)

Keith Hann wrote:
>> Kenneth Coble wrote:
>>
>> But I'll admit I'm still shaky on stuff like mixed armour/mixed
>> toughness combat resolution - I thought that wound allocation
>> (roughly) worked in 'bands' by save type, majority first; isn't the
>> important thing that the Spawns have the same armour save as the
>> Possessed? Or did you just mean that if the Possessed had T5 it was
>> that much harder to wound them in the first place?
>
> Oh yeah, I forgot how it properly works. The first thing you do in
> this procedure is determine majority Toughness. So, he benefits from
> the unit being majority Toughness 5, so that all shots are rolled to
> wound against T5. From there he would still have to allocate those
> wounds to his Possessed if they were the majority armour save in the
> squad, but at least they'd be taking fewer wounds. Eventually there
> are more Spawn than Possessed, and then it gets real fun.
>
> Sorry for the confusion.
>

Hey, no problem, and thanks for the clarification. I just wanted to make
sure I understood it since a) I'm still admittedly unsure about some of the
more recondite parts of the rules and b) I want to do pretty much that same
trick with my Possessed unit!

Thanks again,

--
Ken Coble

That which does not kill us makes us stranger.
-Trevor Goodchild, _Aeon Flux_
 
G

Guest

Guest
Archived from groups: rec.games.miniatures.warhammer (More info?)

It was a cold day in September when Kenneth Coble entered the world pub
known as rec.games.miniatures.warhammer and said...

> Keith Hann wrote:
> >> Kenneth Coble wrote:
> >>
> >> If it make you feel any better, I'll be giving most, if not all, of
> >> the Possessed at least minor psychic powers. Yes, they'll be a
> >> giant walking point sink: rough calculations looks like my planned
> >> unit of 9 will run around 400-500 points, and god only knows if
> >> they'd ever earn it back.
> >
> > A friend of mine sometimes fields a unit of 9 Possessed, all with the
> > Mark of Tzeentch. He gives them all Gift of Chaos, and then attaches
> > a Sorcerer with Gift of Chaos, Warp Focus, Mass Mutation, and a Chaos
> > Spawn. If the unit ever gets into assault it starts transforming
> > everything in sight into Chaos Spawn; if you don't cripple it before
> > it reaches its first victim, you have more wounds to chew through
> > than you know what to do with. It's really expensive and kind of
> > gimmicky, but hilarious to see the look of an opponent who hasn't
> > faced it before when he realizes what is happening. He loses a lot
> > anyways, but it's pretty amusing.
> >
> > On rare occasions, his Mass Mutation roll comes up with Daemonic
> > Resilience, which makes the entire squad majority T5 and allows to
> > allocate most/all wounds to the spawn.
> >
>
> I was thinking about doing the multiple Gifts of Chaos for this unit in
> higher-point games. To top off the stupidity, I was also thinking about
> giving them Flight as their unit mutation, which would make them cost 67
> points apiece; hence the unit of 9 (even with the free AspChamp upgrade!)
> would cost about 650 points, give or take.

You should work out the points so that the cost is 666...
--
Jim M

"Look alive. Here comes a buzzard." -- Walt Kelly (Pogo)
"The only game I like to play is Old Maid - provided she's not too old." --
Groucho Marx

http://jimac.tripod.com
 
G

Guest

Guest
Archived from groups: rec.games.miniatures.warhammer (More info?)

Jim M wrote:
> It was a cold day in September when Kenneth Coble entered the world
> pub known as rec.games.miniatures.warhammer and said...
>
<snip>
>> I was thinking about doing the multiple Gifts of Chaos for this unit
>> in higher-point games. To top off the stupidity, I was also
>> thinking about giving them Flight as their unit mutation, which
>> would make them cost 67 points apiece; hence the unit of 9 (even
>> with the free AspChamp upgrade!) would cost about 650 points, give
>> or take.
>
> You should work out the points so that the cost is 666...

Never let it be said I shrank from a challenge, so here we go. The question
is: is this unit unforgivable cheese or a giant useless point sink?

The Official Ken Coble Bad 40k Idea of the Week:
9 Possessed CSMs (9x22=198)
+Daemonic Flight (9x15=135)
+Mark of Tzeentch (9x10=90)
+Gift of Chaos (9x20=180)
+4Warp Focuses (4x10=40)
free Aspiring Champion upgrade for Favored Status
+Power Weapon (10)
+Chaos Hound (12)
+Frag Grenades (1)

I feel like I cheated a bit; namely, the frag grenades as wargear. The
Hound is a bit of a spacefiller here too, but it's arguably less useful than
the frag grenades are. However, as far as I know, they're both perfectly
legitimate purchases.

This setup might be marginally less stupid:

The Official Ken Coble Bad 40k Idea of the Week, MK2:
9 Possessed CSMs (9x22=198)
+Daemonic Mutation (9x10=90)
+Mark of Tzeentch (9x10=90)
+Gift of Chaos (9x20=180)
+3Warp Focuses (3x10=30)
free Aspiring Champion upgrade for Favored Status
+Power Fist (15)
Unit Transport: Rhino (50)
+Extra Armour (5)
+Smoke Launchers (3)
+"Dozer Blade" (5) - to reroll Difficult Terrain tests: but I'd model it
either as weird mutated legs that are better at traversing rough terrain, or
stick a flying base on it and say the thing can sort-of hover. Either one
seems Tzeentchy to me.

Comments would be very helpful: I am seriously considering building one or
the other of these units in the future. If I'm careful about shopping, I
should be able to build the first one for about $18 and the second one for
about $35, excluding the cost of about a jillion Spawn models. That's
pretty cheap for 666 points, but even so the Rhino-version will cost twice
as much; but it'll have a powerfist and 9 extra h2h attacks as opposed to
the flying squad. I'm thinking the tiny bit of extra mobility that D.
Flight would provide will be overbalanced by the added punch of D. Mutation,
plus a Rhino that might survive to block the enemy's movement or lines of
sight. On the other hand, I feel like I have some decent conversion ideas
for the flying squad, and a Thousand Sons army can't be expected to work
terribly well anyway, so it may as well look bizzare on the table.



--
Ken Coble

That which does not kill us makes us stranger.
-Trevor Goodchild, _Aeon Flux_
 
G

Guest

Guest
Archived from groups: rec.games.miniatures.warhammer (More info?)

"Jim M" <hnjcomics@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:MPG.1ccda6b19770090198a51b@news.west.earthlink.net...
> It was a cold day in September when Kenneth Coble entered the world pub
> known as rec.games.miniatures.warhammer and said...
>
>> I was thinking about doing the multiple Gifts of Chaos for this unit in
>> higher-point games. To top off the stupidity, I was also thinking about
>> giving them Flight as their unit mutation, which would make them cost 67
>> points apiece; hence the unit of 9 (even with the free AspChamp upgrade!)
>> would cost about 650 points, give or take.
>
> You should work out the points so that the cost is 666...

I did that with my chosen unit originally, and also had 66 models in the
army altogether (it being slaanesh and all). unfortunately since then the
army's gotten bigger and the chosen have been scaled down :(

in realistic terms, I've found 400 points is the absolute practical limit
for any one unit in a CSM army. you can have some fun with points-bloated
elite units but they'll rarely earn it back before getting hammered.
 
G

Guest

Guest
Archived from groups: rec.games.miniatures.warhammer (More info?)

"Kenneth Coble" <flintlocklaser@triad.rr.com> wrote in message
news:e8%8e.83024$9v2.1948506@twister.southeast.rr.com...
> Jim M wrote:
>> It was a cold day in September when Kenneth Coble entered the world
>> pub known as rec.games.miniatures.warhammer and said...
>>
> <snip>
>>> I was thinking about doing the multiple Gifts of Chaos for this unit
>>> in higher-point games. To top off the stupidity, I was also
>>> thinking about giving them Flight as their unit mutation, which
>>> would make them cost 67 points apiece; hence the unit of 9 (even
>>> with the free AspChamp upgrade!) would cost about 650 points, give
>>> or take.
>>
>> You should work out the points so that the cost is 666...
>
> Never let it be said I shrank from a challenge, so here we go. The
> question is: is this unit unforgivable cheese or a giant useless point
> sink?

well ... kind of both, really.

> I feel like I cheated a bit; namely, the frag grenades as wargear. The
> Hound is a bit of a spacefiller here too, but it's arguably less useful
> than the frag grenades are.

everyone laughs at hounds but they're definitely worthwhile in
assault-oriented armies.
 
G

Guest

Guest
Archived from groups: rec.games.miniatures.warhammer (More info?)

It was a cold day in September when Doctor Rock entered the world pub known
as rec.games.miniatures.warhammer and said...

> > You should work out the points so that the cost is 666...
> >
> > Never let it be said I shrank from a challenge, so here we go. The
> > question is: is this unit unforgivable cheese or a giant useless point
> > sink?
>
> well ... kind of both, really.
>
>
So your saying that they are a giant useless unforgivable cheese sink?
--
Jim M

"Look alive. Here comes a buzzard." -- Walt Kelly (Pogo)
"The only game I like to play is Old Maid - provided she's not too old." --
Groucho Marx

http://jimac.tripod.com
 
G

Guest

Guest
Archived from groups: rec.games.miniatures.warhammer (More info?)

In article <MPG.1cceaebef16546b998a51c@news.west.earthlink.net>, Jim M,
hnjcomics@gmail.com Varfed out the following in Timo speak...
> It was a cold day in September when Doctor Rock entered the world pub known
> as rec.games.miniatures.warhammer and said...
>
> > > You should work out the points so that the cost is 666...
> > >
> > > Never let it be said I shrank from a challenge, so here we go. The
> > > question is: is this unit unforgivable cheese or a giant useless point
> > > sink?
> >
> > well ... kind of both, really.
> >
> >
> So your saying that they are a giant useless unforgivable cheese sink?
>
You know Jim, you're dead sexy when you talk french. ;)

Myr

--
He really should pay us for that you know, you can't just have any old
yob carrying on these traditions.

- Kurt

RGMW FAQ: http://www.rgmw.org
 
G

Guest

Guest
Archived from groups: rec.games.miniatures.warhammer (More info?)

It was a cold day in September when Jim M entered the world pub known as
rec.games.miniatures.warhammer and said...

> It was a cold day in September when Doctor Rock entered the world pub known
> as rec.games.miniatures.warhammer and said...
>
> > > You should work out the points so that the cost is 666...
> > >
> > > Never let it be said I shrank from a challenge, so here we go. The
> > > question is: is this unit unforgivable cheese or a giant useless point
> > > sink?
> >
> > well ... kind of both, really.
> >
> >
> So your saying that they are a giant useless unforgivable cheese sink?
>
that should have been you're...<must have more coffee, prior to posting>
--
Jim M

"Look alive. Here comes a buzzard." -- Walt Kelly (Pogo)
"The only game I like to play is Old Maid - provided she's not too old." --
Groucho Marx

http://jimac.tripod.com
 
G

Guest

Guest
Archived from groups: rec.games.miniatures.warhammer (More info?)

It was a cold day in September when Myrmidon entered the world pub known as
rec.games.miniatures.warhammer and said...

> In article <MPG.1cceaebef16546b998a51c@news.west.earthlink.net>, Jim M,
> hnjcomics@gmail.com Varfed out the following in Timo speak...
> > It was a cold day in September when Doctor Rock entered the world pub known
> > as rec.games.miniatures.warhammer and said...
> >
> > > > You should work out the points so that the cost is 666...
> > > >
> > > > Never let it be said I shrank from a challenge, so here we go. The
> > > > question is: is this unit unforgivable cheese or a giant useless point
> > > > sink?
> > >
> > > well ... kind of both, really.
> > >
> > >
> > So your saying that they are a giant useless unforgivable cheese sink?
> >
> You know Jim, you're dead sexy when you talk french. ;)
>
> Myr
>
>
But of course!

--
Jim M

"Look alive. Here comes a buzzard." -- Walt Kelly (Pogo)
"The only game I like to play is Old Maid - provided she's not too old." --
Groucho Marx

http://jimac.tripod.com
 
G

Guest

Guest
Archived from groups: rec.games.miniatures.warhammer (More info?)

In article <d463qr$svu$1@nwrdmz03.dmz.ncs.ea.ibs-infra.bt.com>, Helicon_One wrote:
> "Doctor Rock" <malafex@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote in message
> news:rgH8e.98961$Nr5.94325@fe2.news.blueyonder.co.uk...
>>
>> "Philip Bowles" <pbowles@aol.com> wrote in message
>> news:587631d1.0504171704.307c6fff@posting.google.com...
>>> "Kenneth Coble" <flintlocklaser@triad.rr.com> wrote in message
>>> news:<8Ez8e.82775$9v2.1829458@twister.southeast.rr.com>...
>>
>>> To be fair, it makes little enough fluff sense for the Thousand Sons
>>> to use Possessed at all - what is there to possess?
>>
>> I think they represent the remaining "devolved" thousand sons, as well as
>> renegades from other legions and so on.
>
> Not sure if this is what you meant, but they could be CSMs who were able to
> avoid getting turned into dust, but were then possessed later on.
>
> Whilst on the 1K Sons theme, do they still recruit new (intact) marines into
> their ranks? For that matter, do *any* of the Traitor Legions recruit new
> members?

Maybe. There is a fluff piece in the CSM 'dex that ends with someting
that might be a recruitment: "The Prophet was pleased with my answer
and said that I would travel beyond the winds with him and that I
would also be a warrior of the Gods." The prophet in the story is a
CSM, but a "warrior of the Gods" might not necessarily be a CSM. It
could mean cultist/fodder or perhaps the local CSM warband have run
out of daemon chow.


--
Joakim
 
G

Guest

Guest
Archived from groups: rec.games.miniatures.warhammer (More info?)

"Helicon_One" <shiny*blue*thing@yahoo.co.uk> wrote in message
news:d463qr$svu$1@nwrdmz03.dmz.ncs.ea.ibs-infra.bt.com...
> "Doctor Rock" <malafex@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote in message
> news:rgH8e.98961$Nr5.94325@fe2.news.blueyonder.co.uk...
>>
>> "Philip Bowles" <pbowles@aol.com> wrote in message
>> news:587631d1.0504171704.307c6fff@posting.google.com...
>>> "Kenneth Coble" <flintlocklaser@triad.rr.com> wrote in message
>>> news:<8Ez8e.82775$9v2.1829458@twister.southeast.rr.com>...
>>
>>> To be fair, it makes little enough fluff sense for the Thousand Sons
>>> to use Possessed at all - what is there to possess?
>>
>> I think they represent the remaining "devolved" thousand sons, as well as
>> renegades from other legions and so on.
>
> Not sure if this is what you meant, but they could be CSMs who were able
> to avoid getting turned into dust, but were then possessed later on.
>
> Whilst on the 1K Sons theme, do they still recruit new (intact) marines
> into their ranks? For that matter, do *any* of the Traitor Legions recruit
> new members?

yeah, mostly they "recruit" from their own slave-worlds within the eye of
terror, but they also raid feral/medieval worlds in the imperium and
elsewhere to capture warriors which usually provide better stock for
recruitment (less incidence of mutation, more independence and so on). I
think this was alluded to briefly in the 2nd edition codex or somesuch.
certainly the induction / implantation processes of new CSM recruits were
described as being extremely bloody and barbaric compared to the
strictly-defined and carefully-monitored progress of loyalist chapter
recruits, with a much higher rate of "wastage" as a result (most CSM legions
no longer have access to extensive apothecarion facilities and so on, let
alone personnel willing to waste their time training new recruits).
 
G

Guest

Guest
Archived from groups: rec.games.miniatures.warhammer (More info?)

"Kenneth Coble" <flintlocklaser@triad.rr.com> wrote in message
news:8Ez8e.82775$9v2.1829458@twister.southeast.rr.com...
> Well, I accidentally found out from the FLGS that my aunt has picked up a
> box of Thousand Sons minis...

I love the visual...

Sir Scott "OOOhh.. These would look lovely by the aquariaum..."McDaniel
 
G

Guest

Guest
Archived from groups: rec.games.miniatures.warhammer (More info?)

In article <d4jd8f$is2$1@nwrdmz02.dmz.ncs.ea.ibs-infra.bt.com>, Helicon_One wrote:
> "jockelinde" <nouser@notmydomain.se> wrote in message
> news:slrnd6ften.2vj.nouser@crux.id.gu.se...
>> In article <d463qr$svu$1@nwrdmz03.dmz.ncs.ea.ibs-infra.bt.com
>>, Helicon_One wrote:
>
>>> Whilst on the 1K Sons theme, do they still recruit new (intact) marines
>>> into their ranks? For that matter, do *any* of the Traitor Legions
>>> recruit new members?
>>
>> Maybe. There is a fluff piece in the CSM 'dex that ends with someting
>> that might be a recruitment: "The Prophet was pleased with my answer
>> and said that I would travel beyond the winds with him and that I
>> would also be a warrior of the Gods." The prophet in the story is a
>> CSM, but a "warrior of the Gods" might not necessarily be a CSM. It
>> could mean cultist/fodder or perhaps the local CSM warband have run
>> out of daemon chow.
>
> True, I remember that piece now you mention it, although assuming the writer
> was adult at the time, he'd presumably be too old to be suitable for Marine
> implants. Maybe its different for Chaos though. Without wanting to give away
> too many spoilers, there is also new CSM creation' in the Dead Sky, Black
> Sun novel, but that seems to be under unique circumstances and doesn't
> really point to it being a regular process.

I found another sentence which confirms that new CSMs are indeed
created. Fabius Bile's fluff introduction ends with "Here he has
forged alliances with each of the Traitor Legions, providing them
with the expertise they need to create new Chaos Space Marines in
return for their protection.".

--
Joakim
 
G

Guest

Guest
Archived from groups: rec.games.miniatures.warhammer (More info?)

In article <d4jd8f$is2$1@nwrdmz02.dmz.ncs.ea.ibs-infra.bt.com>, Helicon_One wrote:
> "jockelinde" <nouser@notmydomain.se> wrote in message
> news:slrnd6ften.2vj.nouser@crux.id.gu.se...
>> In article <d463qr$svu$1@nwrdmz03.dmz.ncs.ea.ibs-infra.bt.com
>>, Helicon_One wrote:
>
>>> Whilst on the 1K Sons theme, do they still recruit new (intact) marines
>>> into their ranks? For that matter, do *any* of the Traitor Legions
>>> recruit new members?
>>
>> Maybe. There is a fluff piece in the CSM 'dex that ends with someting
>> that might be a recruitment: "The Prophet was pleased with my answer
>> and said that I would travel beyond the winds with him and that I
>> would also be a warrior of the Gods." The prophet in the story is a
>> CSM, but a "warrior of the Gods" might not necessarily be a CSM. It
>> could mean cultist/fodder or perhaps the local CSM warband have run
>> out of daemon chow.
>
> True, I remember that piece now you mention it, although assuming the writer
> was adult at the time, he'd presumably be too old to be suitable for Marine
> implants.

The point of view character is 14. Surely that is young enough?

> Maybe its different for Chaos though. Without wanting to give away
> too many spoilers, there is also new CSM creation' in the Dead Sky, Black
> Sun novel, but that seems to be under unique circumstances and doesn't
> really point to it being a regular process.

Never heard of it. Is it any good?

--
Joakim
 
G

Guest

Guest
Archived from groups: rec.games.miniatures.warhammer (More info?)

Scott McDaniel wrote:
> "Kenneth Coble" <flintlocklaser@triad.rr.com> wrote in message
> news:8Ez8e.82775$9v2.1829458@twister.southeast.rr.com...
>> Well, I accidentally found out from the FLGS that my aunt has picked
>> up a box of Thousand Sons minis...
>
> I love the visual...
>
> Sir Scott "OOOhh.. These would look lovely by the
> aquariaum..."McDaniel

What's funny is that she could probably do a better job painting them up
than I will...

--
Ken Coble

"Every normal man must be tempted, at times, to spit on his hands,
hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats."
-H. L. Menken
 
G

Guest

Guest
Archived from groups: rec.games.miniatures.warhammer (More info?)

"jockelinde" <nouser@notmydomain.se> wrote in message
news:slrnd6tdjt.363.nouser@crux.id.gu.se...
> In article <d4jd8f$is2$1@nwrdmz02.dmz.ncs.ea.ibs-infra.bt.com>,
> Helicon_One wrote:

>> True, I remember that piece now you mention it, although assuming the
>> writer
>> was adult at the time, he'd presumably be too old to be suitable for
>> Marine
>> implants.
>
> The point of view character is 14. Surely that is young enough?

barely, according to the material rick priestley wrote way back in the days
of rogue trader. IIRC the initial implants had to be made in early
adolescence, e.g. 10-14 years of age.

>> Maybe its different for Chaos though. Without wanting to give away
>> too many spoilers, there is also new CSM creation' in the Dead Sky, Black
>> Sun novel, but that seems to be under unique circumstances and doesn't
>> really point to it being a regular process.
>
> Never heard of it. Is it any good?

it's okay. standard black library pulp, perfectly readable (for the most
part). I think Helicon_One is correct in his assessment that the different
legions, and even different factions within legions, would have
widely-varying procedures for creating new recruits.
 
G

Guest

Guest
Archived from groups: rec.games.miniatures.warhammer (More info?)

In article <iWBbe.34544$TZ6.23116@fe3.news.blueyonder.co.uk>, Doctor Rock wrote:
>
> "jockelinde" <nouser@notmydomain.se> wrote in message
> news:slrnd6tdjt.363.nouser@crux.id.gu.se...
>> In article <d4jd8f$is2$1@nwrdmz02.dmz.ncs.ea.ibs-infra.bt.com>,
>> Helicon_One wrote:

<snip>

>>> Maybe its different for Chaos though. Without wanting to give away
>>> too many spoilers, there is also new CSM creation' in the Dead Sky, Black
>>> Sun novel, but that seems to be under unique circumstances and doesn't
>>> really point to it being a regular process.
>>
>> Never heard of it. Is it any good?
>
> it's okay. standard black library pulp, perfectly readable (for the most
> part).

In that case it won't make it into my 'to read'-pile anytime soon.

--
Joakim