Question 4K Video Editing PC (Intel 13900K, MSI Geforce 4070 TI, Asus ProArt Z790)?

[upsidedownjim]

I'm building a 4K video editing PC. Programs used: Avid Media Composer, Resolve, Premiere Pro, Photoshop, Lightroom, may learn some 3D (Blender, C4D).

Parts being considered with best current price I've seen (in CDN):

CPU: Intel i9-13900K ($781)
MOBO: Asus ProArt Z790
GPU: MSI GeForce 4070 TI Gaming X Trio ($1289, purchase this week)
RAM: Kingston Fury Beast DDR5 64GB (2x32GB), 5600, model: KF556C40BBK2-64 ($342.52)
PSU: Corsair HX1500i
CPU Cooling: Deep Cool LT720
SSD (System): WD_Black SN850X 2TB
SSD (Projects/Cache): WD_Black SN850X 2TB
CASE: TBD, looking at a full tower to fit the following:

• x1-2 5.25" bays
• Front USB ports - 1-2 USB-C, 2-4 USB 3. The ProArt supports USB 3.2 Gen 2x2 but I don't have an external drive that would need it at the moment, but I saw some 5.25" bays that could add a 2x2 port. Also saw PCI cards with support for it but takes up a PCI port. MSI has some cases with 2x2 but I don't think they are full tower.
• x2-3+ HDD SATA drive bays. Minimum x2 3.5" bays would be needed
• x2-3+ SSD drive bays. Minimum x2 - 2.5" bays

Questions:

1. RAM: I checked the compatible RAM list for the Asus ProArt Z790 at 5600 MHZ and there's a big gap in price between the Kingston Fury Beast at $342.52 and the Corsair Dominator Platinum at $547.99. Is there a reason for this? Is Corsair that much better? Or just catching a good price on the Fury Beast? At $342.52 I'm considering getting 128GB of RAM (2 kits of x2 32GB). If I don't buy now I likely won't ever. I'm sure it is overkill but I don't mind having the buffer room for smoother performance. I may get 64GB now and then get another in a few months if I'm seeing that I'm hitting near 64GB with daily work usage. I find around the 3-5 year mark when I want to upgrade the RAM is hard to come back or more expensive then at the time of the initial purchase.

2. CASE: Most cases don't have 5.25" bays. It's not essential for me to have this but would be handy for a Blu-Ray burner and I'm looking at 5.25" USB hubs that I can either find or add a USB 3.2 Gen 2x2 (supported by the ProArt mobo). That's, also, not essential but I'd like to, if reasonable, to build for that so I'm not without when needed. I also saw PCI cards with USB 3.2 Gen 2x2 but that would take up a PCI slot, which I'd like to avoid.

3. CASE: Will the 5.25" bays block airflow to cool the system? Assume I'll be able to fit 2 front fans instead of 3.

4. CASE FANS: I guess this depends on the case but is it pretty standard to replace stock case fans? If so, how many would be needed and any recommendations? I've looked at the Noctua NF-A12s

5. CPU Cooling: I'm sure this is a broad topic with pros/cons but for the above parts, any recommendations on which way to go? Air Cooling vs Liquid with model suggestions?

Thanks for any help you can provide and hopefully this thread is helpful to others, as well!

Edit: adjust the parts to what has been purchased so far.

 

[Aeacus]

I'm considering getting 128GB of RAM (2 kits of x2 32GB).

With two sets of 2x 32GB, you need to be very careful and read your MoBo memory QVL in-depth. Since if the RAM that you're getting, isn't marked in memory QVL as it working in all 4 slots, but instead only in 2 slots, then there's 50:50 chance that half of your RAM won't work. Or when it does work, it's stuck at 4800 Mhz, without you being able to OC it to 5600 Mhz.

and there's a big gap in price between the Kingston Fury Beast at $342.52 and the Corsair Dominator Platinum at $547.99. Is there a reason for this? Is Corsair that much better?

Kingston is good (have Kingston RAM myself).

Diffs;

• Corsair Dominator is top-of-the-line.
• Corsair Vengeance is normal, consumer RAM.
• Kingston Fury Renegade is top-of-the-line.
• Kingston Fury Beast is normal, consumer RAM.

Hence the price diff. But is it "that" much better, 200 bucks better? No. But it is better (more reliable).

It's like, asking if Tesla Model X, at 120K USD is "that" much better from Tesla Model Y Long Range, at 65K USD? Both are sedan body, have AWD, same range and get you from point A to point B. So, why does Model X cost double of Model Y LR? <- If you can answer that, you get the idea for your RAM price diff question as well.

2. CASE: Most cases don't have 5.25" bays. It's not essential for me to have this but would be handy for a Blu-Ray burner and I'm looking at 5.25" USB hubs that I can either find or add a USB 3.2 Gen 2x2 (supported by the ProArt mobo). That's, also, not essential but I'd like to, if reasonable, to build for that so I'm not without when needed. I also saw PCI cards with USB 3.2 Gen 2x2 but that would take up a PCI slot, which I'd like to avoid.

True, most newer cases doesn't include the 5.25" external bay anymore, since many think "who uses CD/DVD anymore". But 5.25" external bay has far more uses and is very versatile on what you can install into it. E.g all my PCs (full specs with pics in my sig) have 5.25" bays and besides DVD reader/writer, i've also installed external fan controller and card reader into them.

Spoiler: My allocation of 5.25" bays (click here to view)

Left: Skylake
Middle: Haswell
Right: AMD

As far as which PC case to choose, selection isn't wide among full towers.

Options are:

• Phantheks Enthoo Pro or TG, specs: https://www.phanteks.com/Enthoo-Pro-TemperedGlass.html
• Be Quiet! Dark Base Pro 900 v2, specs: https://www.bequiet.com/en/case/1472
• Corsair 780T Black or White, specs: https://www.corsair.com/ww/en/Categ...ries™-780T-Full-Tower-PC-Case/p/CC-9011063-WW
• Corsair 760T v2 Black (my Skylake build sits in it) or White, specs: https://www.corsair.com/eu/en/Categ...760T-Full-Tower-Windowed-Case/p/CC-9011073-WW
• Corsair 750D or Airflow Edition (my Haswell build sits in it), specs: https://www.corsair.com/eu/en/Categ...w-Edition-Full-Tower-ATX-Case/p/CC-9011078-WW

These are good build quality options, with plenty of features.

For my next build, i've thought getting Dark Base Pro 900 as new PC case. But my Corsair 760T v2 Black is nigh-perfect and i might end up taking the old CPU-MoBo out of it. 🤔

Since choosing a PC case is personal choice, go with the one you like the most.

3. CASE: Will the 5.25" bays block airflow to cool the system? Assume I'll be able to fit 2 front fans instead of 3.

Depends on a case. On full-tower ATX, this isn't an issue.

Spoiler: Side view of my Skylake build, in Corsair 760T v2 Black case (click here to view)

I have 2x 140mm front intake fans (Corsair ML140 Pro LED red) among other fans.
More than ample space for cooling. Also, HDD cage can be removed as well.

4. CASE FANS: I guess this depends on the case but is it pretty standard to replace stock case fans? If so, how many would be needed and any recommendations? I've looked at the Noctua NF-A12s

Most stock fans are poor. Even i had to replace the Corsair AF140L fans that came with my 760T and 750D AF cases.

I went with a bit more eyecandy and got color matching Corsair ML Pro LED series fans. Sure, they are single color, but they also suit the build theme nicely.

Pros/cons wise, you're looking at:
120mm
Pros

• great airflow (12 - 75 CFM)
• great static pressure (0.2 - 4.2 mmH2O)
• great RPM range (400 - 2400 RPM)
• PWM control (4-pin fan)
• mag-lev bearing (300.000+ work hours)
• 4 color options (red, blue, white LED and non-LED version)
• warranty 5 years

Mediocre

• noise output (16 - 37 dB(A))
• power draw 0.299 A

Cons
* price

140mm
Pros

• great airflow (20 - 97 CFM)
• great static pressure (0.2 - 3.0 mmH2O)
• great RPM range (400 - 2000 RPM)
• PWM control (4-pin fan)
• mag-lev bearing (300.000+ work hours)
• 4 color options (red, blue, white LED and non-LED version)
• warranty 5 years

Mediocre

• noise output (16 - 37 dB(A))
• power draw 0.276 A

Cons
* price

120mm, specs: https://www.corsair.com/us/en/LED-Color/Fan-Size/Package-Quantity/ml-pro-led-config/p/CO-9050042-WW
140mm, specs: https://www.corsair.com/us/en/LED-Color/Fan-Size/Package-Quantity/ml-pro-led-config/p/CO-9050048-WW

120mm, pcpp USD: https://pcpartpicker.com/products/compare/LkJkcf,GXkwrH,MpBrxr,wPFXsY/
140mm, pcpp USD: https://pcpartpicker.com/products/compare/D34NnQ,cfyxFT,sYNypg,ycH48d/

But sure, you can go with Noctua as well. Noctua doesn't have LEDs for eyecandy, but are solid performers as well.
Stock fans wise, i've heard that only Phanteks stock fans are solid and doesn't require replacement.

As far as how many and which size, well;
To get the best possible airflow with the least amount of noise, install as many fans in your case as possible. Preferably 140mm rather than 120mm since 140mm fan moves more air and does that more quietly than it's (same spec) 120mm counterpart.
While installing 5x to 7x fans in your PC may look like that you'd get extremely loud noise out of your PC, it's actually vice-versa. The trick is that the more fans you have inside the case, the less each fan has to work to maintain the airflow and the less noise fans produce.

And that is also a main reason why i have 7x high-end case fans in my Skylake and Haswell builds (Corsair ML Pro LED and NZXT AER140 RGB). Mostly 140mm but few 120mm as well. Since i have that many case fans, i can keep all of my case fans spinning between 800 - 1100 RPM and thanks to this, my PCs are very quiet while still having proper airflow inside my full-tower ATX cases.

Besides many fans, i have most of them connected to my external 5.25" fan controller as well, giving me individual control over all fans. Very neat thing, where you don't have to mess with BIOS or software. Instead, lift your finger and adjust the fan speed.

5. CPU Cooling: I'm sure this is a broad topic with pros/cons but for the above parts, any recommendations on which way to go? Air Cooling vs Liquid with model suggestions?

With i9-13900K, things get difficult, fast. This is the hottest chip ever made and even with best air cooler or AIO, you'll be running that CPU at 95-100C.

From TH review:

"Raptor Lake exposes the most robust overclocking features and the highest frequency ceilings we've seen with modern chips. We've heard that most units can manage 5.7 GHz all-core p-core overclocks on 360mm AIOs, and we reached 5.5 GHz on Core i7 and 5.6 GHz on Core i9 and i5, all with a 280mm Corsair H115i watercooler. We optimized the voltages carefully, but do note that we often peaked at ~96-98C during stressful applications — right below the 100C throttle point. For reference, we regularly hit 100C at stock settings with our 280mm cooler, as you can see above in the multi-threaded stress test with the Core i9-13900K. However, the chip did regularly hit 5.8 GHz, as advertised, during lightly threaded work (second slide), and we didn't experience nearly as much of a cooling challenge with the Core i7 and i5 models."

Source: https://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/intel-core-i9-13900k-i5-13600k-cpu-review/3

Running 95C is the new "norm" of those high-end CPUs.

So, i suggest that you 1st pick your PC case, and then, we can look what that PC case supports and go on with CPU cooler selection.
For example; my 760T case supports up to 170mm tall air coolers, 280mm rad in front or 360/420 rad on top. But with 360/420 rad on top, you'll be blocking off 1 or 2 5.25" external bays. And while official specs doesn't say that you can install 3x 140mm fans on top, you actually can. There are mounting holes for that, i've done so (you can see it on my pics) and there's enough space for 3rd 140mm fan not to block most upper 5.25" external bay, while still having airflow.

 

[upsidedownjim]

Wow - thanks, Aeacus for the extremely detailed and helped reply! Really appreciate the time you spent going through this. It helped a lot and has given me great advice to consider. Thanks!

I ordered 64GB RAM (x2 - 32GB) for now. Figured I'd see if I need more. Also, saw similar posts about XMP issues. I chatted with Asus tech support and the rep said they are working on a BIOS update to fix the issue but the issue has been going on for awhile it seems. If for some reason the Kingston RAM is "slow" I could potentially sell or replace the Kingstone Fury Beast for the Corsair Dominator (both supported on the QVL for the Asus ProArt Z790. But I doubt I'll notice an issue. $200 savings is probably worth it for performance vs price.

Nice to see your use of 5.25" bays - that's given me some thoughts for more bays!

I'll probably spend the next week or so looking at cases and narrowing things down. Will follow up. From what I've seen so far:

Phanteks - Enthoo Pro (PH-ES614PTG):

Pros:
- has the drive bays (2 more then I think I'll need)

• 10 mm clearance for graphics card with hard drive cage (GPU is 337mm long)
• In stock for $180 (CDN) at Amazon.ca

Cons:

• Front IO ports could be more modern but I'd be okay using one of the 5.25" bays for an IO bay
• Do the bottom 2 drive bays and hard drive cages block enough airflow to not cool as needed?
• With drive bay is there enough space for front fans (to check/consider)

Graphite Series 780T

Pros:

• Has x2 5.25" bays - enough for Blu Ray burner and IO bay, perhaps better airflow as a result vs 4 on above.
• Clearance for GPU

Cons:
- Front IO ports - no usb-c but IO bay would get around that

Will check out the other suggestions in the next few days. Thanks again for the incredible help!

 

[Aeacus]

Here are some case reviews;

Enthoo Pro TG;

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v60oj4Tg5Zg


In my opinion, Linus'es case reviews are far better, since they cover a lot more features that PC case has. So, below is original Enthoo Pro review, which differs from TG version by:

• has dual window acrylic side panel, instead of hinged TG side panel
• comes with 1x 200mm front fan, instead of 1x front 140mm fan (both still have 1x 140mm rear fan)

Other than these two, Enthoo Pro is same as Enthoo Pro TG.

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Gg6WoE6LkI


And here is Corsair 780T review;

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JIyPeXUfFKE


Bonus, review of my Corsair 760T, which too is both practical and good looking;

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fLOt8h8-kNY

Edit:
Following goes into the niche of enthusiast computing and is to do with dust filtration. So, if you're interested about proper dust management, expand the spoiler.

Spoiler: Click here to view

You probably noticed from my image, that i have custom fan filters on my 760T and 750D AF cases. Namely, i have DemciFlex filter sets, custom made to my PC cases,
link: https://www.demcifilter.com/

E.g here's set for;
780T: https://www.demcifilter.com/demciflex-magnetic-dust-filter-for-corsair-graphite-780t-filter-kit
760T: https://www.demcifilter.com/demciflex-magnetic-dust-filter-for-corsair-760t-dust-filter-kit
750D: https://www.demcifilter.com/demciflex-magnetic-dust-filter-for-corsair-obsidian-750d-dust-filter-kit

Demciflex offers custom filters for all sorts of cases. Sadly, no custom set for Enthoo Pro, but custom set for Enthoo Luxe might be compatible with Enthoo Pro as well,
link: https://www.demcifilter.com/PHANTEKS

You can also buy standard sized filters from Demciflex, or when needed, order a custom made filter, according your own specific needs/dimensions. All filters are either magnetic or come with glued edge (to mount on plastic). Also, Demciflex now offers a wide arrange of colors as well (back then when i bought mine, options were only black or white).
And cleaning them is also very easy (guide on Demciflex site), but in a nutshell, either gently brush the dust off, or when filter is very dusty, rinse in cold water and afterwards dry with towel by gently tapping the filter.

Here's video review of Demciflex set for 760T, showcasing the filters and how fine the holes really are, compared to the stock filter;

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m3LFD_M8Ev0


One of the reasons, among many, as of why i went with 760T, was that i could also get Demciflex filter kit for it.

There are far more to the niche of enthusiast computing than dust management. E.g those fancy colored power cables, that you most likely saw within my PC. If you're interested in those, i can follow up by explaining those as well. Oh. the external 5.25" fan controller is another niche in enthusiast computing. Can explain those as well.

 

[upsidedownjim]

Still looking at case options. I have ordered (but could return within 15 days) a DeepCool LT720 AIO for my CPU cooler. Tom's Hardware had a review or article saying it was the best for cooling the i9-13900K and I didn't feel like doing much more research than that. I'll probably have to front mount it for most case options.

I think I can make do without the x2 5.25" bays as I can use an external enclosure for my Blu-Ray burner and can get USB 3.2 Gen 2x2 rear case panel that I can connect the header to. Same for x4 USB 2.0 (random peripherals). Still, it'd be more convenient to have the 5.25" Bays.

I looked into offerings from Fractal Design and Phanteks and think the Define 7 XL (poor cooling from reviews?) or the Enthoo Pro could work with drive bays. Without drive bays the Enthoo Pro 2, Entho 719 could work. I didn't see stock for the Corsair 780 or 760.

 

[Aeacus]

I didn't see stock for the Corsair 780 or 760.

Did find Corsair 780 White from Amazon, but it costs twice what it should cost. So, not worth it.
Amazon: https://www.amazon.com/CORSAIR-GRAPHITE-Full-Tower-Case-White/dp/B00LA6ZLGQ

Then again, both cases are actually quite old (released 8 years ago) and it's very hard to find any stock at current date.

and think the Define 7 XL (poor cooling from reviews?)

Solid front panel = extreme hindrance in airflow. And if you plan to mount the rad at the front as well, you'd need Noctua industrial fans to get enough air through all that restriction. Perhaps even Delta industrial fans.

 

[King Dranzer]

Here is the list:

PCPartPicker Part List

CPU: Intel Core i9-13900K 3 GHz 24-Core Processor ($794.98 @ Newegg Canada)
CPU Cooler: ARCTIC Liquid Freezer II 280 72.8 CFM Liquid CPU Cooler ($170.00)
Motherboard: Asus PRIME Z790-A WIFI ATX LGA1700 Motherboard ($440.60 @ Newegg Canada)
Memory: Corsair Vengeance 64 GB (2 x 32 GB) DDR5-5600 CL40 Memory ($397.98 @ Newegg Canada)
Storage: Crucial P3 1 TB M.2-2280 PCIe 3.0 X4 NVME Solid State Drive ($89.99 @ Newegg Canada)
Storage: Western Digital Black SN850X 1 TB M.2-2280 PCIe 4.0 X4 NVME Solid State Drive ($137.98 @ Newegg Canada)
Video Card: Gigabyte WINDFORCE GeForce RTX 4090 24 GB Video Card ($2282.52 @ Newegg Canada)
Case: Corsair 4000D Airflow ATX Mid Tower Case ($133.63 @ iSanek)
Power Supply: Corsair RM1000x (2021) 1000 W 80+ Gold Certified Fully Modular ATX Power Supply ($247.98 @ Newegg Canada)
Total: $4695.66
Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available
Generated by PCPartPicker 2023-01-17 13:19 EST-0500

Best performance, quality and expand-ability.

Oh and RTX4090 all that at $250 over that RTX4070Ti build. So huge gain of performance for little bump in price.

I don't see that Kingston RAM. But if you can manage to get that then it would save you another $50.

That CPU cooler is listed on Amazon.ca

 

[upsidedownjim]

Did find Corsair 780 White from Amazon, but it costs twice what it should cost. So, not worth it.
Amazon: https://www.amazon.com/CORSAIR-GRAPHITE-Full-Tower-Case-White/dp/B00LA6ZLGQ

Then again, both cases are actually quite old (released 8 years ago) and it's very hard to find any stock at current date.



Solid front panel = extreme hindrance in airflow. And if you plan to mount the rad at the front as well, you'd need Noctua industrial fans to get enough air through all that restriction. Perhaps even Delta industrial fans.

Thanks - yeah, good points on the Define 7 XL. The front has a door and the top cover comes off but I'm leaning towards ditching the 5.25" drive bays - as handy as they would be. There are more case options and better airflow without them. Also, just finding an adequate case in stock is challenging enough. I'll keep looking. Thanks for all of the help - much appreciated!

 

[g-unit1111]

3. CASE: Will the 5.25" bays block airflow to cool the system? Assume I'll be able to fit 2 front fans instead of 3.

If you get the Enthoo Pro, get the Enthoo Pro M. I had an Enthoo Pro, the M is the far superior model. It's roomy enough for a full liquid loop and you can also remove the 5.25" drive if you need extra room.

 

[upsidedownjim]

Here is the list:

PCPartPicker Part List

CPU: Intel Core i9-13900K 3 GHz 24-Core Processor ($794.98 @ Newegg Canada)
CPU Cooler: ARCTIC Liquid Freezer II 280 72.8 CFM Liquid CPU Cooler ($170.00)
Motherboard: Asus PRIME Z790-A WIFI ATX LGA1700 Motherboard ($440.60 @ Newegg Canada)
Memory: Corsair Vengeance 64 GB (2 x 32 GB) DDR5-5600 CL40 Memory ($397.98 @ Newegg Canada)
Storage: Crucial P3 1 TB M.2-2280 PCIe 3.0 X4 NVME Solid State Drive ($89.99 @ Newegg Canada)
Storage: Western Digital Black SN850X 1 TB M.2-2280 PCIe 4.0 X4 NVME Solid State Drive ($137.98 @ Newegg Canada)
Video Card: Gigabyte WINDFORCE GeForce RTX 4090 24 GB Video Card ($2282.52 @ Newegg Canada)
Case: Corsair 4000D Airflow ATX Mid Tower Case ($133.63 @ iSanek)
Power Supply: Corsair RM1000x (2021) 1000 W 80+ Gold Certified Fully Modular ATX Power Supply ($247.98 @ Newegg Canada)
Total: $4695.66
Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available
Generated by PCPartPicker 2023-01-17 13:19 EST-0500

Best performance, quality and expand-ability.

Oh and RTX4090 all that at $250 over that RTX4070Ti build. So huge gain of performance for little bump in price.

I don't see that Kingston RAM. But if you can manage to get that then it would save you another $50.

That CPU cooler is listed on Amazon.ca

Thanks for putting that list together and for the suggestions! I'm seeing the price difference between the 4070 TI and 4090 as about $1000. Gaming isn't a high priority for me. I'm sure there are benefits for video editing and graphics (saw some videos about them) but felt that the 4070 would do the job I need for the "right" price. Literally, the card cost almost as much as my entire last build in 2014 and I think that was a decent build. I ordered x2 WD Black SN850X 2TB for about $240 each CDN. Looked like a good price for 2TB and gives extra room on the OS drive for general storage. I was planning on a 2TB drive for projects/working files. Thanks again for the help!

 

[upsidedownjim]

I’m currently leaning towards the Phanteks Enthoo Pro 2. The Enthoo Pro M doesn’t have clearance for the gpu with HDD cages (337mm) and only room for x2 3.5" HDDs (iirc).

Reasoning for the Phanteks Enthoo Pro 2:

• in stock, reasonable price
• supports x4 3.5" HDD in provided cages/trays
• supports x3 2.5" SDD (I only need one)

There's room for more hard drives but I should only need the above and I don't want to take from possible fan positions. Also, one of the M.2 slots on the Asus ProArt Z790 shares bandwidth with SATA ports 5 to 8. So, I can use one or the other. Down the road I'd swap out an HDD or the SSD for an M.2.

- Front IO (not great but can make do pairing with mobo):

Case Front IO: x4 USB 3.0, x1 USB 3.1 Gen 2 Type-C.
Mobo (Pro Art Z790) Front IO: x1 USB 3.2 Gen 2x2, x2 USB 3.1 Gen 1, x4 USB 2.0

They don't match up but I'll make use of it as follows:

- x1 USB 3.2 Gen 2x2 - I'm looking at getting a rear panel port (like this).

-x1 USB 3.2 Gen 1 header (for x2 ports) - connect to front IO. Leaves 2 ports on the front unused. Unless the 2.0 headers can connect, but I don't that think they would?

- x1 USB 2.0 header (x4 ports) - again get a rear panel (like this). Connect misc 2.0 devices (ie, scanner).

- Unless I'm misunderstanding things, the USB 3.1 Gen 2 Type-C port on the case would also go unused since the mobo doesn't have a header for that.

CPU Cooler Placement:

My fan placement knowledge is iffy - have rough idea but not sure what's optimal. I'm thinking I'd top mount the Deep Cool LT720 CPU Cooler.

Case Fans:

The case supports:

Front: x4 120mm or x3 140mm
Side: x4 120mm
Bottom: x3 120mm or x1 140mm
Rear: x1 120mm or x1 140mm
Top: x3 120mm or x3 140mm (not used if AIO placed here.

Not sure which fans to get (Noctua?) or how many are needed. RGB is not important to me. I'd likely turn it off. I imagine that I'd need at least the x3 140mm front fans, x1 140mm rear fan. I'll see how much space there is on the bottom with the HDD cage installed (don't see that info in the manual). I can add the side fans down the road or if it's needed get them now. That's 7-8 fans.

I may look at some case alternatives but I think the Enthoo Pro 2 meets my needs (unless I'm overlooking or missing something).

Of course, I lose the 5.25" bays but I think cooling is more important. I'll either use my blu ray burner in my current build or get an external enclosure. IO bay could be replaced with the above setup.

 

[Aeacus]

- x1 USB 2.0 header (x4 ports) - again get a rear panel (like this). Connect misc 2.0 devices (ie, scanner).

Do note that internal USB 2.0 headers are used elsewhere, than just for front I/O ports.

E.g almost all AIOs need one internal USB 2.0 header for their operation (so you can control the AIO from their software). And there are other devices that use internal USB 2.0 header as well.

E.g i have NZXT HUE+ (case ARGB lighting) that utilizes one. I've actually ran out of internal USB 2.0 headers, so, i had to buy the NZXT internal USB 2.0 header hub, to expand those.

NZXT now offers newer (but IMO worse) version of that hub,
specs: https://nzxt.com/product/internal-usb-hub-gen-3

Unless I'm misunderstanding things, the USB 3.1 Gen 2 Type-C port on the case would also go unused since the mobo doesn't have a header for that.

You're going to buy Asus ProArt Z790-CREATOR WIFI MoBo? If so, it does have one internal header for USB 3.2 Gen 2x2 (support(s) USB Type-C),
specs: https://www.asus.com/motherboards-components/motherboards/proart/proart-z790-creator-wifi/techspec/

My fan placement knowledge is iffy - have rough idea but not sure what's optimal. I'm thinking I'd top mount the Deep Cool LT720 CPU Cooler.

Case airflow rule of thumb: front and bottom - intake; top and rear - exhaust.

Further reading: https://forums.tomshardware.com/faq...-fans-and-keeping-your-computer-cool.1542215/

Not sure which fans to get (Noctua?) or how many are needed. RGB is not important to me. I'd likely turn it off. I imagine that I'd need at least the x3 140mm front fans, x1 140mm rear fan. I'll see how much space there is on the bottom with the HDD cage installed (don't see that info in the manual). I can add the side fans down the road or if it's needed get them now. That's 7-8 fans.

Side intake fans aren't needed, once you already have front intake fans. Those side intake fans are mainly for eyecandy. Sure, they do work, but their placement to the side is for eyecandy.

For easy reference:

Let's discuss the fan placement;

• Top exhaust - AIO rad at the top, so, no additional fans there.
• Front intake - Since you'd be using 5.25" bay, can't put 3x 120mm there, instead 2x 120mm or 2x 140mm. I'd go with 2x 140mm, since they move more air and are quieter, than 120mm fans.
• Side intake - No fans are needed, unless you want extreme Positive pressure inside your PC case.
• Rear exhaust - 1x 140mm.
• Bottom intake - Here you have a choice, either 3x 120mm or 1x 120mm + 1x 140mm. Since you don't know how much the HDD cage takes up space, leave the bottom fans purchase to later date.

With this, you're looking towards 3x 140mm fans (two front, one back).

As of which to go for, well;

1. You can go with the same Corsair ML140 Pro (LED or non-LED) as i have in use. Gave their specs in my earlier reply.
pcpp, CAD: https://ca.pcpartpicker.com/products/compare/D34NnQ,cfyxFT,sYNypg,ycH48d/
2. Go with Noctua. Only Noctua NF-A14 industrialPPC fans outperform the Corsair ML140 Pro fans. Other Noctua 140mm fans do not.
Noctua fans: https://noctua.at/en/products/fan

Both fans are solid performers and it comes down to eyecandy and price. Corsair fans offer tad bit more eyecandy, if you go with LED version. And Corsair fans also have mag-lev bearing (300.000+ hours). Noctua fans have SSO2 bearing, a hybrid between fluid-dynamic and mag-lev (150.000+ hours). Oh, all fans are also 4-pin PWM fans (except one Noctua industrial fan which is 3-pin DC fan).

 

[upsidedownjim]

Thanks again for your time and your help!!

Thanks for the heads up on the USB 2.0 header. I'll set up the computer before purchasing a rear panel. Not the end of the world if I can't use that. Can always get a usb hub if I run out of ports (I could use like 20 USB ports). Noting the NZXT hue+ as an example of uses for internal USB 2.0 headers.

re: USB 3.1 Gen 2x2 - I haven't been able to get a clear answer but my understanding is I can't connect that header to a front IO USB 3.1 Gen 2 port. the gen 2x2 is different header than just gen 2, iirc. I checked with Asus tech support and they said that was the case but I may have misunderstood. Seems odd to me to not support a more common port. Certainly prefer connecting to a front USB-C port.

Thanks for the link to the article about cooling. Read and bookmarked!

re fans placement:

• Top exhaust - AIO - good there
• Front intake - there's no 5.25" bay on the Enthoo Pro 2 (front "bay" is the IO panel but there's still room for x3 140 fans. I'm okay now without having a 5.25" so I could fit x4 120mm or x3 140mm fans.
• Side intake - copy that. Won't currently plan for fans there but will see if needed once the system is setup.

Rear - copy that.
Bottom - copy that. I'll take a look once I see how much space the HDD tray takes up.

As for the fans, the Corsair ML 140 Pro RGB is 39.93 on Amazon (same as non-RGB) and the Noctua NF-A14 PWM chromax.black.swap is $33.08. I'd most likely turn off the RGB but having the option doesn't hurt. If I'm reading reviews right and following what you're saying the ML140 Pro is better performance but a bit noisier than the NF-A14 PWM? I'd be looking to purchase 4 fans now and maybe 1-2 more bottom in take fans.

I may be misunderstanding things but if I had 5 intake (3 front 140mm, 2 bottom 140 - assuming 2 fit) and 4 exhaust fans (x3 AIO, x1 rear) that would be an imbalance in air pressure so in that case would look to 1-2 side mounted fans as exhaust?

Also, ideally I'd place the computer on the floor under my desk. There would be 9" of clearance to the underside of the desk. Would that pose an airflow issue?

I was thinking of getting a computer stand (like this) to keep the PC off the floor and give more room for bottom intake air. That would reduce clearance to about 6.5". I could place the computer on a desk but would mean buying a bunch of long cables as I would need the PC to be about 8-10' from my sitting position main monitor. I could also mount a regular fan upside down from the underside of my desk to blow the exhaust air towards the back of the computer instead of up into the underside of the desk. (Might be over thinking things). Another issue is the computer would be about 3" from my radiator - assume hotter air would be brought into the computer than if it was further away from the radiator. I could find another spot on the floor but it means changing a fair bit of my setup to do so.

Thanks again for your help!!

 

[Aeacus]

re: USB 3.1 Gen 2x2 - I haven't been able to get a clear answer but my understanding is I can't connect that header to a front IO USB 3.1 Gen 2 port. the gen 2x2 is different header than just gen 2, iirc.

Type C is Type C. Nothing different there.

Only diff is bandwidth speed, where;
USB 3.1 Gen 2 = 10 Gbps
USB 3.2 Gen 2x2 = 20 Gbps

The latest USB naming scheme has really hit the gutter and even i can't tell which is which, that is, without a guide like this,
link: https://www.tomshardware.com/news/usb-3-2-explained

But the short version is this;
1.25 Gbps - USB 1.0 (Type A)
2.5 Gbps - USB 2.0 (Type A)
5 Gbps - USB 3.0 / USB 3.1 Gen1 / USB 3.2 Gen1 (Type A or C)
10 Gbps - USB 3.1 Gen2 / USB 3.2 Gen2 / USB 3.2 Gen2x1 (Type A or C)
20 Gbps - USB 3.2 Gen2x2 (Type C)

For the sake of understanding, i'll talk about bandwidth speeds, rather those Gens.
So, your MoBo provides 20 Gbps and has internal Type C header. Your PC case also has Type C header, but that is capable of 10 Gbps. So, it still works, albeit you can't utilize the full 20 Gbps bandwidth.

If I'm reading reviews right and following what you're saying the ML140 Pro is better performance but a bit noisier than the NF-A14 PWM?

When it comes to airflow, you either have low noise and poor airflow OR high noise and good airflow. Can't have no noise with good airflow, except for one exception. Still, moving air itself, especially through the restrictions, causes noise as well. This is the reason why ML Pro is "noisier", since it moves more air and does it better through restrictions (static pressure, measured in mmH2O).

I may be misunderstanding things but if I had 5 intake (3 front 140mm, 2 bottom 140 - assuming 2 fit) and 4 exhaust fans (x3 AIO, x1 rear) that would be an imbalance in air pressure so in that case would look to 1-2 side mounted fans as exhaust?

If you were to run all fans at 100% (or 50% or any percent equal across all fans), then yes, you'd get Positive pressure.

But to achieve Neutral pressure, all you need to do, is run intake fans at lower speed, than exhaust fans. With this, noise level at the front of the PC case would be lower and you'd have Neutral (balanced) air pressure.

And if you were to increase the RPM gap between intake and exhaust fans eve further (exhaust even higher speeds, intake even lower speeds), you could get into Negative pressure ballpark (which is best in terms of cooling).

Also, ideally I'd place the computer on the floor under my desk. There would be 9" of clearance to the underside of the desk. Would that pose an airflow issue?

9" (22cm) from the top of the PC case to the desk plate? If so, that would be ample space for top exhaust.

However, it's bad idea to put your case on the floor, since dust intake would be immerse. Especially when placed on the carpet.
Did you know, that if you'd elevate your PC case as little as 5" from the floor, you could reduce the dust intake up to 80%? 🤔

My main PC and my missus'es PC, are both on the table, next to our monitor. Elevation wise, our PCs are 73cm (28.7") off the floor. With this, dust intake is minimal and we also can admire our fancy PCs, that i've built for us.

I was thinking of getting a computer stand (like this) to keep the PC off the floor and give more room for bottom intake air. That would reduce clearance to about 6.5". I could place the computer on a desk but would mean buying a bunch of long cables as I would need the PC to be about 8-10' from my sitting position main monitor. I could also mount a regular fan upside down from the underside of my desk to blow the exhaust air towards the back of the computer instead of up into the underside of the desk. (Might be over thinking things). Another issue is the computer would be about 3" from my radiator - assume hotter air would be brought into the computer than if it was further away from the radiator. I could find another spot on the floor but it means changing a fair bit of my setup to do so.

The wheeled rack would be nice idea, to give more room for bottom intake and also to elevate the PC for dust intake reduction. Though, keeping PC close to the floor, IMO, isn't still the best. Since besides the two issues i explained, there is also easy way to kick the PC and you also brought up the heating radiator close by.

I'd still put the PC on the table, out of harms way. But if table real estate is in premium, how about real estate on your wall? Since there are wall mounted PC cases out there as well, like Thermaltake Core series,
link: https://www.thermaltake.com/product...product_list_limit=30&product_list_order=name
E.g Core P5.

 

[upsidedownjim]

Thank you again for the awesome reply! Appreciate your time and knowledge - hope it helps others who come across this thread. Thanks for the clarification on USB-C header. I checked with Asus tech support and they said it wouldn't connect. Maybe he meant, as you say, at 20GBps - which is fine. Most of the drives I'm connecting are Lacie D2 drives that have a usb-c connection but are external SATA so not expecting 20Gbps (or even 10). And yeah the USB naming scheme...what the heck were they thinking? IIRC, a new naming scheme is coming out (maybe just for USB 4).

I ordered the Phanteks Enthoo Pro 2 case. I could keep looking at options but that fit the bill. Not too much larger than my current case (Antec P280). I'm still waiting on the mobo and ram to ship out (ordered two weeks ago).

I'm noting the case fan info, thanks again! Cooling has become much more complicated since my last build (i7-3930K, Asus P9X79 Pro, Geforce GTX 770, 32GB RAM). I think I'll order the case fans after the case arrives so I can see if any will fit on the base next to the HDD bay.

I always wondered why my computer got so dusty! I think I will move the new computer onto my desk. I will need some longer cables but not too big of a deal. I prefer the computer more out of sight but definitely want to keep the system as cool as possible (temperature-wise).

Thanks again for your help! Really helped to hone in on parts.

 

[Aeacus]

And yeah the USB naming scheme...what the heck were they thinking? IIRC, a new naming scheme is coming out (maybe just for USB 4).

Regarding USB naming, it would've been far easier to just stick to the simple and already established naming scheme, where:

1.25 Gbps - USB 1.0 (Type A)
2.5 Gbps - USB 2.0 (Type A)
5 Gbps - USB 3.0 (Type A or C)
10 Gbps - USB 4.0 (Type A or C)
20 Gbps - USB 5.0 (Type C)
and so forth.

Cooling has become much more complicated since my last build (i7-3930K, Asus P9X79 Pro, Geforce GTX 770, 32GB RAM).

PC cooling has actually remained same, namely airflow path inside the case. What is changed, is more fan mounts across the PC case.

E.g my old Pentium II PC, from '98, only had one 80mm front intake fan on the PC case, and that was it.
My AMD build, bought in 2011, came with PC case that supported: front 120mm, rear 120mm and 2x side 120mm.
In 2016, bought my Corsair 760T which has: front 2x 120/140mm, top 3x 120/140mm, rear 1x 120/140mm, bottom 1x 120mm.
So, airflow has gotten better over the years, with more, flexible options in terms of fan placements and sizes.

I always wondered why my computer got so dusty!

Placing PC on the floor (especially on the carpet) + neglecting it (no dust cleaning) = dust box, that overheats easily.
But placing PC far higher up, using good fan filters (like the Demciflex i described above), keeping your eye on it (since PC sits at eye level and has side window) + doing internal dust cleaning = healthy and good looking PC, without overheating issues.

Also, buying an air compressor (power tool, with battery), helps immensely on any dust cleaning inside the PC. Just hold fan blades in place, when blowing compressed air to fans, so that fans won't spin.

I too bought an air compressor, that works straight from the mains. But what i failed to comprehend, was the noise it makes, 96 dB(A). 😱 Sure, it's powerful (8 BAR, 180L/min) but that one is intended for outdoor use. So, now, i need to get the power tool version of it, that i can comfortably use indoors. Namely this specific one,
amazon: https://www.amazon.com/Makita-DMP180ZX-Lithium-Ion-Cordless-Inflator/dp/B085DV34VC

 

[upsidedownjim]

Thanks again for the reply! Yup, logical USB naming seems to not in the cards. I guess by cooling I mean have to consider it as closely on my last build in 2014. Fortunately, I don't have carpets and use compressed air every few months so my system hasn't been too bad but raising up on a desk can't hurt, aside from losing desk space and visual clutter. An air compressor could be a good way to save some money on purchasing cans of compressed air.

I'm going to place an order for the Corsair ML140 Pro RGB with Lighting Node Twin Pack and x3 Corsair ML140 Pro RGB Single Pack. The RGB versions are same cost as the non-RGB so might as well get those and the controller / hub for the iCue software.

So, I'll have 5 case fans (3 front, 1 bottom, 1 rear). The case fits on the bottom either x3 120mm or x1 140mm. I think with the hard drive bay there will still be room for the 140mm fan. Maybe there'd be room for x2 120mm. Also, will have the top mounted DeepCool LT720 AIO. Hopefully, I'll be covered for good airflow with that.

I think that should cover me for parts - fingers crossed. Case should arrive tomorrow. My RAM and MOBO may be lost in the mail somehow (yay 😡). NVME's arrive Monday. Then onto the build phase. Assembling should be okay but tuning the fans and cpu voltage may be troublesome. Been reading about setting the i9-13900K to 200 W to reduce heat and minimal performance loss. Also, read about the potential CPU bracket issue that may require a part from Thermal Grizzly but I'll wait to see the system temperatures once built. Also, sticking with Windows 10. No need to upgrade to Windows 11 at this time.

I'm sure I'll reply some more once I get into building / set up in a few days.

Thanks again for your help and suggestions! Really do appreciate the time taken to reply.

 

[Aeacus]

I'm going to place an order for the Corsair ML140 Pro RGB with Lighting Node Twin Pack and x3 Corsair ML140 Pro RGB Single Pack. The RGB versions are same cost as the non-RGB so might as well get those and the controller / hub for the iCue software.

ML Pro RGB is a poor fan in terms of performance. 😒 Eyecandy matters more with ML Pro RGB than performance,
specs: https://www.corsair.com/eu/en/Categories/Products/Fans/RGB-&-LED-Fans/ml-pro-rgb-config/p/CO-9050077-WW#tab-tech-specs

Comparison between the ML Pro LED (what i use and suggested) vs ML Pro RGB (that you bought), 140mm;

Metric​	ML Pro LED​	ML Pro RGB​
Airflow​	20-97 CFM​	55.4 CFM​
Static pressure​	0.2-3.0 mmH2O​	1.27 mmH2O​
RPM range​	400-2000 RPM​	400-1200 RPM​
Control​	4-pin PWM​	4-pin PWM​
Fan bearing​	Mag-lev (300.000+ h)​	Mag-lev (300.000+ h)​
LED​	Single color​	RGB​
Noise​	16-37 dB(A)​	20.4 dB(A)​
Power draw​	0.276 A​	0.2 A​
Warranty​	5 years​	5 years​

Doesn't look good, in terms of performance. ML Pro RGB, for 140mm fan, is actually very poor performing fan. Even my 120mm fan, in terms of airflow, is outperforming ML Pro RGB 140mm fan. My ML Pro LED 120mm fan, pushes up to 75 CFM, and the idea of 140mm fan is, that it is supposed to be better, in terms of airflow, and not worse.

 

[sonofjesse]

I have built a couple in the 760T's very roomy and nice cases . 4 USB ports on the front like it should be, just no USB C if that is important to you.

 

[upsidedownjim]

Whoops! Didn't catch the difference. Thanks again. Order cancelled! A few people on Amazon noted that the LED can't be turned off. Is that accurate?

ML Pro RGB is a poor fan in terms of performance. 😒 Eyecandy matters more with ML Pro RGB than performance,
specs: https://www.corsair.com/eu/en/Categories/Products/Fans/RGB-&-LED-Fans/ml-pro-rgb-config/p/CO-9050077-WW#tab-tech-specs

Comparison between the ML Pro LED (what i use and suggested) vs ML Pro RGB (that you bought), 140mm;

Metric​	ML Pro LED​	ML Pro RGB​
Airflow​	20-97 CFM​	55.4 CFM​
Static pressure​	0.2-3.0 mmH2O​	1.27 mmH2O​
RPM range​	400-2000 RPM​	400-1200 RPM​
Control​	4-pin PWM​	4-pin PWM​
Fan bearing​	Mag-lev (300.000+ h)​	Mag-lev (300.000+ h)​
LED​	Single color​	RGB​
Noise​	16-37 dB(A)​	20.4 dB(A)​
Power draw​	0.276 A​	0.2 A​
Warranty​	5 years​	5 years​

Doesn't look good, in terms of performance. ML Pro RGB, for 140mm fan, is actually very poor performing fan. Even my 120mm fan, in terms of airflow, is outperforming ML Pro RGB 140mm fan. My ML Pro LED 120mm fan, pushes up to 75 CFM, and the idea of 140mm fan is, that it is supposed to be better, in terms of airflow, and not worse.

Thanks, once again! Saved my bacon. I missed the difference between the two and cancelled the order. I did check if the LED light can be turned off and answers on Amazon says that it can't be. So, I'll go with the Corsair ML140 PRO (CO-9050045-WW🤔) - non-LED version. The only difference I see from the tech specs is slightly lower power draw - assume due to no LED. Hopefully, I haven't missed something again.

 

[Aeacus]

A few people on Amazon noted that the LED can't be turned off. Is that accurate?

For ML Pro LED, yes. LED will shine at all times. Or if you don't like the single color LED, go with non-LED version of ML Pro LED.

The only difference I see from the tech specs is slightly lower power draw - assume due to no LED.

Yes.

4 USB ports on the front like it should be, just no USB C if that is important to you.

Nowadays, there are PCI-E bracket cards, that offer the USB-C at the back of the PC case, when PC case doesn't come with one.

 

[upsidedownjim]

The Phanteks Enthoo Pro 2 case arrived. I like the design more in person than what I saw online. It's simple and minimal which I prefer. It's about 0.5" wider and 2.5" taller than my current PC case. Same depth.

I can't do much until the remaining parts arrive. The Corsair HX1500i PSU fits. I stacked the 4 included drive bays. They just slot into each other and the bottom bay slots into the bottom of the case. The drive bays are a bit wobbly and there's no rubber cushions between the cages so there could be some vibration noise as the drives spin. Maybe the weight of the drives will help.

Also swapping drives will be annoying. The front of the drives faces the back of the case so the SATA and Power cables are facing into the case. Which does make sense but to swap a drive the full drive bay has to be removed. I guess I should be happy there are drive bays at all. Didn't see videos or info about this prior to purchasing - just that it could fit the bays. Not a deal breaker.

In my current case the HDD attach to a plastic rail that slides into the bay. So, each drive can be pulled out individually. I think being on the plastic rail also helps reduce vibrations.

I checked if a 120 mm fan would fit with the drive bays in the case and I think it would. But the bottom HDD cage in the stack wouldn't be useable as the fan would come right up to the back of the drive without room for the SATA or Power cable. Drives above that should fit.

Edit: I took out a second 120mm fan from a pc and checked if 2 would fit with the drive bay/cage installed and it did. The slot the fans screw into has a good about of room to secure the fans while fitting the cables for HDD.

With or without the drive cage there's only room for x1 140 mm fan.

 

[Aeacus]

Once the rest of your components arrive, do breadboard the MoBo.
Meaning that you put your MoBo on any cardboard box. <- This way, it's far easier to switch out components.

It should look similar to this:
(my Skylake build breadboarded, just after i bought it)

With breadboarding, you can install CPU, CPU cooler, RAM, connect monitor, KB and mouse and power on the build. Breadboarding is very convenient way to test if your hardware works. Since if it doesn't, it's easy to disassemble it and RMA any components needed, without you needing it to pull it out from the PC case.

Once you've verified that build works, then you can install the MoBo to PC case and do all other cable management.

 

[upsidedownjim]

Got the system up and running - at least to the BIOS. I'm still waiting for my WD_Black SN850X 2TB (x2) drives to arrive to install the OS. The drives are likely lost in the mail but Canada Post and New Egg need to finish an investigation before replacements can be sent out. Other options are more expensive or out of stock so I'll wait and see where their investigation goes. I didn't install the GPU yet as it blocks the second M2 spot. The build went relatively smoothly. There isn't much clearance at the top of the case for the AIO fans + radiator. But I was able to plug things in by installing the the left and centre fans after mounting the radiator to the top and making the AIO Pump and CPU Fan connections.

@Aeacus Thanks again for all of your tremendous help!! Hopefully, this thread helps others, too.

I'll post again once I actually install the OS. 😛