Question 5600x + 280mm AiO high temps

[RoyDaniels]

Case: Cooler Master NR200P Max (built in 280mm AiO)
Mainboard: Gigabyte B550i Aorus Pro Ax
CPU: AMD Ryzen 5 5600x
GPU: Asus Rog Strix 3070 OC

Ambient temp: 25c

Hello,

I've been going through a lot of threads and I've seen many posts about this very issue, though many seem to use the stock cooler
and have even better temps than me.
My idle temps are 45c-60c and on startup it even reaches like 75c for some time before it goes down.
Yes I've seen that this CPU is supposedly safe under 95c and is "normal"
but no way others get like 35c idle and 70c on load with the stock cooler and here I am with my 280mm AiO looking like a fool.
I also read that it's a supposed issue with Gigabyte and/or their temp sensors but some people with different mainboards seem to have the same issue.
Cinebench r23 / AIDA 64 10 min run reach 83c max with 4440Mhz on all cores (it doesn't even make use of the full boost clock speed).
In CSGO I have temps like 70c-75c with CPU usage of maybe 20-30%.
I have remounted the pump 3 times already, pump speed 100%, no changes. Windows power plan set to balanced.
Also I don't want to play around curve optimizer and undervolting and stuff that I read about because I simply shouldn't need to in the first place.

 

[John Chesterfield]

Also I don't want to play around curve optimizer and undervolting and stuff that I read about because I simply shouldn't need to in the first place.

Okay then.

/thread

 

[John Chesterfield]

You might think that's a flippant response, but it's the answer to your problem. And if you don't want to consider it because you 'shouldn't have to', then nobody can really help you because you're constrained with that small case, those temps without tweaking seem normal.

 

[Phaaze88]

Too many variables to account for, like:
Differences in room ambients
The variable motherboard Load Line Calibration and voltage curves
Personal fan curves
Hardware in use
Background tasks running, some of which use hardware acceleration(if enabled)
etc.

4440Mhz on all cores (it doesn't even make use of the full boost clock speed)

Today's cpus clock speeds scale up/down depending on how many cores are active. Both Intel and AMD do this.

 

[RoyDaniels]

You might think that's a flippant response, but it's the answer to your problem. And if you don't want to consider it because you 'shouldn't have to', then nobody can really help you because you're constrained with that small case, those temps without tweaking seem normal.

My small case is not a factor since my GPU is not even in usage using cinebench. I did the same testing opening my case and having my radiator outside the case, the temps dropped like 2-3c.

 

[John Chesterfield]

My small case is not a factor since my GPU is not even in usage using cinebench. I did the same testing opening my case and having my radiator outside the case, the temps dropped like 2-3c.

Okay, I don't know anything about this kinda stuff. I get better temps with an air cooler with twice as many cores at higher frequencies and twice as many threads than what you are running, how do you think I managed that?

ANY SFF case is a factor, but you clearly know better so crack on. I'll not bother replying here anymore.

 

[RoyDaniels]

Okay, I don't know anything about this kinda stuff. I get better temps with an air cooler with twice as many cores at higher frequencies and twice as many threads than what you are running, how do you think I managed that?

ANY SFF case is a factor, but you clearly know better so crack on. I'll not bother replying here anymore.

Okay buddy I bought a new case, we'll see if things will improve.

 

[hotaru.hino]

A few thoughts on the matter:

• If the CPU temps are a single value, then from Ryzen processors they typically report the hottest part of the processor. It's likely the average die temperature is a good 10C or lower.
• The advertised turbo boost speed is for a single core workload. It doesn't reflect all core turbo boost.
• Regarding not using PBO Curve Optimizer "because you shouldn't need it", sure, you shouldn't, but AMD, NVIDIA, and Intel ship their parts with an aggressive V-F curve so they can guarantee any given part, from the most luckiest of silicon lottery winners down to the "it'll die if you so much as change anything from defaults", runs as advertised.

 

[logainofhades]

Make sure you didn't overtighten, or under-tighten the mounting screws, for the AIO. I overtightened mine, when I first built my Ryzen rig, with an x570 aorus pro wifi itx, and a cryorig A40.

 

[Karadjgne]

Not all silicon is equal. That's a fact well known to both AMD and Intel and every ram/ssd vendor on the planet. Some cpus require slightly higher voltages, amperages in the same cpu type. Some don't. Amd/Intel isn't about to voltage test and tweak for minimum acceptable performance. What they do instead is jack up the stock default settings high enough to cover any and all cpus, no matter how lousy the silicon is. That way at stock, they can claim certain guarantees and limit rmas.

It therefore becomes incumbent upon the user to tweak any settings for better performance. That's called OC. Doesn't matter if it's undervolting, changing fan curves, setting xmp profiles, it's all OC.

You took the side panels off, remount Ed the pump, set for 100%, even took the aio out, temps dropped 2-3°C. That's not a case size issue, it's not an airflow issue, that's a high voltage issue or fan curve issue or half dead pump issue. Nothing to do with the case. It's a 65w cpu with a 300w capacity cooler.

PBO does nothing if you aren't exceeding AMD stock limits for PPT, EDC, EPT.

Gigabyte is well known for pushing limits and likes to mess with/ignore AMD/Intel recommended settings, so make sure your bios is up to date, then check the 3 PBO status and cpu voltages with Ryzen Master.

Both tubes should feel the same temp on that aio, with that cpu, even pushed to its limits you'd be lucky to see 2°C difference in temps between the tubes, if the aio is working correctly.

Ryzen only uses 1 core, rotating, at idle, so the entire load of background tasks, services and processes is lumped on 1 core. The rest are inactive. With Intel, all cores are idle, with the load split between all, so see a much lower hottest core amount. That means Ryzens can easily see 40-60°C at idle, since it's just one core, but with a minimal load, like moving the mouse, temps will drop as the idle load now hits all cores, until going back to idle state.

Should use balanced power plan, performance only benefits static OC.

I have an R/T. It's rated at 0-60mph in 5.0seconds. If I get in the car, start the engine, put it in drive and go, it does 0-60mph in about 7.0 seconds. To get the car anywhere close to its rated 5.0seconds requires I also manually enable Sport Mode and then use the paddle shifters to manually change gears, even though it's an automatic transmission.

"Shouldn't have to" does not apply when you decide you want better than what you have. Your pc is running to default spec, including temps. If you want better, it's on you to make changes in its behavior, because out-of-the-box performance is guaranteed to be only One thing. Default.

 

[RoyDaniels]

Not all silicon is equal. That's a fact well known to both AMD and Intel and every ram/ssd vendor on the planet. Some cpus require slightly higher voltages, amperages in the same cpu type. Some don't. Amd/Intel isn't about to voltage test and tweak for minimum acceptable performance. What they do instead is jack up the stock default settings high enough to cover any and all cpus, no matter how lousy the silicon is. That way at stock, they can claim certain guarantees and limit rmas.

It therefore becomes incumbent upon the user to tweak any settings for better performance. That's called OC. Doesn't matter if it's undervolting, changing fan curves, setting xmp profiles, it's all OC.

You took the side panels off, remount Ed the pump, set for 100%, even took the aio out, temps dropped 2-3°C. That's not a case size issue, it's not an airflow issue, that's a high voltage issue or fan curve issue or half dead pump issue. Nothing to do with the case. It's a 65w cpu with a 300w capacity cooler.

PBO does nothing if you aren't exceeding AMD stock limits for PPT, EDC, EPT.

Gigabyte is well known for pushing limits and likes to mess with/ignore AMD/Intel recommended settings, so make sure your bios is up to date, then check the 3 PBO status and cpu voltages with Ryzen Master.

Both tubes should feel the same temp on that aio, with that cpu, even pushed to its limits you'd be lucky to see 2°C difference in temps between the tubes, if the aio is working correctly.

Ryzen only uses 1 core, rotating, at idle, so the entire load of background tasks, services and processes is lumped on 1 core. The rest are inactive. With Intel, all cores are idle, with the load split between all, so see a much lower hottest core amount. That means Ryzens can easily see 40-60°C at idle, since it's just one core, but with a minimal load, like moving the mouse, temps will drop as the idle load now hits all cores, until going back to idle state.

Should use balanced power plan, performance only benefits static OC.

I have an R/T. It's rated at 0-60mph in 5.0seconds. If I get in the car, start the engine, put it in drive and go, it does 0-60mph in about 7.0 seconds. To get the car anywhere close to its rated 5.0seconds requires I also manually enable Sport Mode and then use the paddle shifters to manually change gears, even though it's an automatic transmission.

"Shouldn't have to" does not apply when you decide you want better than what you have. Your pc is running to default spec, including temps. If you want better, it's on you to make changes in its behavior, because out-of-the-box performance is guaranteed to be only One thing. Default.

I'm a bit late but thanks for that very informative text.
I do have another case now with 9 fans total, more space and better airflow and indeed my temps remain basically the same,
I guess I'll have a lil' bit of overclocking to do then.
While gaming I am about 10c cooler though which is very likely thanks to my now front mounted radiator on intake so my GPU heat doesn't rise into the before top mounted radiator anymore.

 

[JeffreyP55]

Case: Cooler Master NR200P Max (built in 280mm AiO)
Mainboard: Gigabyte B550i Aorus Pro Ax
CPU: AMD Ryzen 5 5600x
GPU: Asus Rog Strix 3070 OC

Ambient temp: 25c

Hello,

I've been going through a lot of threads and I've seen many posts about this very issue, though many seem to use the stock cooler
and have even better temps than me.
My idle temps are 45c-60c and on startup it even reaches like 75c for some time before it goes down.
Yes I've seen that this CPU is supposedly safe under 95c and is "normal"
but no way others get like 35c idle and 70c on load with the stock cooler and here I am with my 280mm AiO looking like a fool.
I also read that it's a supposed issue with Gigabyte and/or their temp sensors but some people with different mainboards seem to have the same issue.
Cinebench r23 / AIDA 64 10 min run reach 83c max with 4440Mhz on all cores (it doesn't even make use of the full boost clock speed).
In CSGO I have temps like 70c-75c with CPU usage of maybe 20-30%.
I have remounted the pump 3 times already, pump speed 100%, no changes. Windows power plan set to balanced.
Also I don't want to play around curve optimizer and undervolting and stuff that I read about because I simply shouldn't need to in the first place.

Something isn't right. Before upgrading my 5600x to a 5950x the 5600x with a 280 AIO idled at 31 degrees. The 5950x? 50 degrees. 5950x is a little more busy compared to a 5600x

 

[RoyDaniels]

Something isn't right. Before upgrading my 5600x to a 5950x the 5600x with a 280 AIO idled at 31 degrees. The 5950x? 50 degrees. 5950x is a little more busy compared to a 5600x

Which mainboard do you use? Since I've seen many complain about high ryzen temps with a Gigabyte mainboard (which I have) but it might just as well be bad luck with silicone lottery or voltage issues like Karadjgne has mentioned. It's definitely not my pump because I've used 3 different AiOs with this mainboard-cpu combo.

 

[JeffreyP55]

Which mainboard do you use? Since I've seen many complain about high ryzen temps with a Gigabyte mainboard (which I have) but it might just as well be bad luck with silicone lottery or voltage issues like Karadjgne has mentioned. It's definitely not my pump because I've used 3 different AiOs with this mainboard-cpu combo.

Asus TUF gaming X570-Pro Wifi.

 

[JeffreyP55]

One other thing. I would never run a high performance PC in a little wienie case. I prefer full tower cases. Your needs we vary but give the rig breathing room.

 

[Karadjgne]

One other thing. I would never run a high performance PC in a little wienie case. I prefer full tower cases. Your needs we vary but give the rig breathing room.

Wheras I'd never run aircooling in a Full Tower, only a custom loop. Full towers have a massive internal volume of air, and thats what gets warmed by the heat sources like gpu, chipset heatsinks, VRM's, ram etc.

My case is 12.7L, before stuff, so somewhere around 4-5L of air at most now. A standard sized mid-tower is closer to 40L, a Full tower can hit closer to 60L and a super tower hits upto 90L.

A single average 120mm fan can fully exchange the air in my case in a matter of seconds. (I have 4 fans). Takes roughly 2 minutes in a mid tower, almost 4 minutes in a Full and 10 minutes in a Super. All the while that air is being heated by the gpu especially. As case temps go up, aircooling uses those temps as the ambient base, so if it's 40°C inside the case, gpu and cpu aircooling will be no lower than @ 41°C no matter what cooler or fans.

Bigger does not necessarily mean better, mATX and mITX have by far the best cooling possibilities as they generally fit at least 2-3x 120mm fans. Then it's upto the case design as to how much of that is blocked off or obstructed.

 

[JeffreyP55]

Wheras I'd never run aircooling in a Full Tower, only a custom loop. Full towers have a massive internal volume of air, and thats what gets warmed by the heat sources like gpu, chipset heatsinks, VRM's, ram etc.

My case is 12.7L, before stuff, so somewhere around 4-5L of air at most now. A standard sized mid-tower is closer to 40L, a Full tower can hit closer to 60L and a super tower hits upto 90L.

A single average 120mm fan can fully exchange the air in my case in a matter of seconds. (I have 4 fans). Takes roughly 2 minutes in a mid tower, almost 4 minutes in a Full and 10 minutes in a Super. All the while that air is being heated by the gpu especially. As case temps go up, aircooling uses those temps as the ambient base, so if it's 40°C inside the case, gpu and cpu aircooling will be no lower than @ 41°C no matter what cooler or fans.

Bigger does not necessarily mean better, mATX and mITX have by far the best cooling possibilities as they generally fit at least 2-3x 120mm fans. Then it's upto the case design as to how much of that is blocked off or obstructed.

I upgraded to an 360mm radiator liquid CPU cooler which keeps the the 5950x very happy. Front case fan sucking air and exiting the rear case fan and 3 AIO cooler fans mounted where the cooler radiator should be mounted. Full tower cases can move a lot of air setup properly. Expensive electronics chassis air flow diagnostics with different configuration is a must. We do a DIY diagnostics.
Edit: I would never run my old 5600x or the 5950x with air cooling. It would be murder for the 5950x.

 

[JeffreyP55]

Besides AMD being cheap mothers.. Why do think the 5950x comes without a factory air cooler?

 

[Karadjgne]

Besides AMD being cheap mothers.. Why do think the 5950x comes without a factory air cooler?

Money. Same with Intel.

Few years back, all mainstream cpus came with a cooler, AMD even went so far as to include (well, you paid for it 🤣) a 120mm AIO with the FX 9 series. Problem was capacity. Those coolers did not have enough.

Modern Amd coolers are 130-150w capacity, built by CoolerMaster. That's plenty for a 65w Ryzen and keep it within temp ranges. Not necessarily the temps you will approve of, but plenty according to the cpu.

So, Money is the deciding factor. Neither AMD nor Intel want to waste money on a cpu cooler that's either going to be left in the box unused, thrown away, or end up on eBay. They get no return on the investment and like Amd's failures with the FX9's, have a hard time charging extra and getting ppl to buy it, just to waste money when they toss that feeble 120mm AIO on eBay.

Liquid cooling is not magic. It does the exact same job as air cooling, within expected ranges. A hyper212 is the same 140w as the Wraith, albeit quieter. The NH-D15 is the same 250w as most 240mm AIO's. The difference is that's airs limit whereas a 360mm AIO generally hits in the 300w range. A full custom loop rad can hit 500w with a 60mm thick 360mm rad. That's Capacity. Efficiency is a whole different aspect, that sets some coolers like the NH-D15 apart from others. But below the capacity threshold, the NH-U12S is actually more efficient, more affective and for a 150w cooler gets better temps on a 65w Ryzen than the NH-D15 does.

With a 142w stock socket limit, the 5950x does just fine with Big Air, well under the 250w average, it's only when you enable PBO, add the 200MHz boost clock and set the cpu free of power restrictions or add any static OC which dissolves that 142w socket limit, that's when Big Air can run into issues, as capacity becomes a limiting factor and efficiency coefficient deltas get way smaller.

 

[RoyDaniels]

Besides AMD being cheap mothers.. Why do think the 5950x comes without a factory air cooler?

I mean, if you're buying the totl CPU I don't think you're gonna be using it with a stock cooler, it would be foolish to include one.

 

[JeffreyP55]

I mean, if you're buying the totl CPU I don't think you're gonna be using it with a stock cooler, it would be foolish to include one.

Correct answer. I would not use a heat pipe monster air cooing either on a 5950x.

 

[Karadjgne]

Correct answer. I would not use a heat pipe monster air cooing either on a 5950x.

Me either, but I prefer liquid cooling, even used a 120mm Corsair H55 on a i5-3570k with great results, even OC'd. Have a Cryorig R1 Ultimate on a i7-3770k OC'd to 4.6GHz and am not a fan, much louder than the nzxt X61 280mm AIO it used to be under until the fans finally failed.

 

[JeffreyP55]

Me either, but I prefer liquid cooling, even used a 120mm Corsair H55 on a i5-3570k with great results, even OC'd. Have a Cryorig R1 Ultimate on a i7-3770k OC'd to 4.6GHz and am not a fan, much louder than the nzxt X61 280mm AIO it used to be under until the fans finally failed.

The EVGA 280MM cooling the 5600x was very loud. It was in the same room as my AV system. Cooler noise level was ridiculous. Then when I replaced the 5600x with a shiny new 5950x. Bought a 360mm ID-COOLING Auroflow x360 which is almost silent. Not a well know company but it works great. Hopefully it will live for awhile. I will know immediately if it fails. The 5950's thermal protection will shut it down quickly.

 

[Karadjgne]

ID Cooling is actually very well known, in Europe, Asia etc, not so well known in the US cuz that's tackling the giants at home, like CoolerMaster, Corsair etc. They have some decent stuff at pretty decent prices, but they aren't really a tech leader like CM or Corsair or Noctua, they are more about production than R&D. They wait for the patents to run out, take a cooler design, reimagine it to their purposes and sell the heck out of it.

Yes, the Evga is actually one of the best performance, but that comes at the cost of louder fans, a trade off since Evga doesn't put too much R&D into fan designs. ID Cooling looked around for a decent, quiet fan, and stuck it on a standard aio rad (there's only like 6 actual OEMs for those rads, so everyone uses basically the same thing). Asetek is the pump OEM and have their patents locked down harder than Fort Knox.

Should last somewhere around 6 years or so, and by that time you'll be looking for something new anyway.

 

[JeffreyP55]

ID Cooling is actually very well known, in Europe, Asia etc, not so well known in the US cuz that's tackling the giants at home, like CoolerMaster, Corsair etc. They have some decent stuff at pretty decent prices, but they aren't really a tech leader like CM or Corsair or Noctua, they are more about production than R&D. They wait for the patents to run out, take a cooler design, reimagine it to their purposes and sell the heck out of it.

Yes, the Evga is actually one of the best performance, but that comes at the cost of louder fans, a trade off since Evga doesn't put too much R&D into fan designs. ID Cooling looked around for a decent, quiet fan, and stuck it on a standard aio rad (there's only like 6 actual OEMs for those rads, so everyone uses basically the same thing). Asetek is the pump OEM and have their patents locked down harder than Fort Knox.

Should last somewhere around 6 years or so, and by that time you'll be looking for something new anyway.

In the old days of OC I had a radiator, small reservoir, German built submersible fish tank pump and CPU/GPU blocks. I used water wetter because it didn't restrict the wide rage of temperatures. Never use poly glycol for cooling. It doesn't allow for high and low temp protection. Just hope whatever the liquid compoud in my cooler doesn't start to cake ugliness.