64 bit system

[Guest]

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.flight-sim (More info?)

I am strongly considering going ahead and upgrading to an AMD 64 bit
system.

Due to the fact that I am a frequent upgrader, I don't mind smaller steps
than some. Right now, I do not see a real need to go 939/Nforce4/pci
express. I think I would rather wait a year or so when the kinks are worked
out.
However, I have heard good things about the performance of the socket 754
processer with an Nforce3 motherboard.
Yes, I know it is not as upgradeable for the future, but I don't mind
investing in a new motherboard/processor in the next year or two. I would
just like to get more bang for my buck now.

My system specs now:

Athlon XP 2800+ Barton, overclocked to 3200+ speeds.
1 gb of Corsair matched LL pc3200 ram.
ATI Radeon 9800 Pro 128 mb vid card. ( overclocked as well).
Audigy2 ZS
Asus A7N8X Deluxe Ver2 mb.

It's still a good system, but now I want better. I simply cannot go for too
long without upgrading, drives me nuts!! . I have been running AMD for
some time now, and want to stick with it.

I would be interested in any opinions, especially those that currently have
a socket 754 Athlon mb, or even socket 939.

My main performance interest - gaming, particularly flight sims. IL2, want
to get Lomac, EECH, have MSFS 2002, want to get 2004.

I figure I can go ahead and get a 754 mb and processor, continue to use the
Radeon 9800 pro, then upgrade the vid card to next generation when they come
down some in price and are more readily available - then, in a year to year
and a half, make the move to socket 939 and pci express.


Thanks,




--
Don Burnette

"When you decide something is impossible to do, try to stay out of the way
of the man that's doing it."

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.flight-sim (More info?)

After a lot of research, that's precisely the path I chose, Don, and I
skipped the 939 boards because of the reported difficulties they had
with more than one stick of RAM. While that problem may or may not have
been sorted out by now, the 754s looked strong enough to me. More
research ensued.

I finally selected DFI's LanParty UT nF3 250GB because: Japanese
capacitors, hence no risk of the shoddy ones from other venues; every
conceivable option for tinkering in the BIOS; designed by an industry
renowned engineer, newly acquired by DFI; full implementation of nF3
250GB available chipset features using all nVidia, no substitutes; and a
host of lesser things. I'm running the Athlon 64 3000 and a Gig of
PC3200 RAM. Not a record breaking rig, by any means, but a solid one
with a lot of throttle to it. Oh, and because it was nVidia and not VIA,
to which I think I'll never return.

This allowed me to re-use a lot of components that are just fine but may
be useless in a PCI express rig or on the new BTX style motherboards. I
still have my ATI 9600, for example, but am looking at the market to see
how far up the chain I can go for a reasonable price. For me, that's not
a whole lot more than US$200, and it used to be US$140 or so.

I made all these changes at the same time I switched from Win 98 to XP,
and the new chipset has its own learning curve, so I'm not yet in a
position to swear how wonderful it is for all possible applications. All
I can really say is nothing has disappointed me yet, but the nVidia
Network Access Manager and Firewall have presented some mysteries whose
answers haven't yet been revealed. But I'm plugging away at it.

My other machine is a Win 98 rig on the Asus A7N8X-X board with 512 MB
PC 3200 RAM (the maximum Win 98 can efficiently use) with a Barton XP
3000, 400 mhz fsb, so we come from reasonably similar backgrounds.

Check out that DFI board and read the reviews. Your plan is my plan, so
of course it makes perfect sense. <GRIN>

-Seadog

Don Burnette wrote:
> I am strongly considering going ahead and upgrading to an AMD 64 bit
> system.
>
> Due to the fact that I am a frequent upgrader, I don't mind smaller steps
> than some. Right now, I do not see a real need to go 939/Nforce4/pci
> express. I think I would rather wait a year or so when the kinks are worked
> out.
> However, I have heard good things about the performance of the socket 754
> processer with an Nforce3 motherboard.
> Yes, I know it is not as upgradeable for the future, but I don't mind
> investing in a new motherboard/processor in the next year or two. I would
> just like to get more bang for my buck now.
>
> My system specs now:
>
> Athlon XP 2800+ Barton, overclocked to 3200+ speeds.
> 1 gb of Corsair matched LL pc3200 ram.
> ATI Radeon 9800 Pro 128 mb vid card. ( overclocked as well).
> Audigy2 ZS
> Asus A7N8X Deluxe Ver2 mb.
>
> It's still a good system, but now I want better. I simply cannot go for too
> long without upgrading, drives me nuts!! . I have been running AMD for
> some time now, and want to stick with it.
>
> I would be interested in any opinions, especially those that currently have
> a socket 754 Athlon mb, or even socket 939.
>
> My main performance interest - gaming, particularly flight sims. IL2, want
> to get Lomac, EECH, have MSFS 2002, want to get 2004.
>
> I figure I can go ahead and get a 754 mb and processor, continue to use the
> Radeon 9800 pro, then upgrade the vid card to next generation when they come
> down some in price and are more readily available - then, in a year to year
> and a half, make the move to socket 939 and pci express.
>
>
> Thanks,
>
>
>
>

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.flight-sim (More info?)

Very good info, thanks Seadog, I will check it out.


--
Don Burnette

"When you decide something is impossible to do, try to stay out of the
way of the man that's doing it."


Seadog wrote:
> After a lot of research, that's precisely the path I chose, Don, and I
> skipped the 939 boards because of the reported difficulties they had
> with more than one stick of RAM. While that problem may or may not
> have been sorted out by now, the 754s looked strong enough to me. More
> research ensued.
>
> I finally selected DFI's LanParty UT nF3 250GB because: Japanese
> capacitors, hence no risk of the shoddy ones from other venues; every
> conceivable option for tinkering in the BIOS; designed by an industry
> renowned engineer, newly acquired by DFI; full implementation of nF3
> 250GB available chipset features using all nVidia, no substitutes;
> and a host of lesser things. I'm running the Athlon 64 3000 and a Gig
> of PC3200 RAM. Not a record breaking rig, by any means, but a solid
> one with a lot of throttle to it. Oh, and because it was nVidia and
> not VIA, to which I think I'll never return.
>
> This allowed me to re-use a lot of components that are just fine but
> may be useless in a PCI express rig or on the new BTX style
> motherboards. I still have my ATI 9600, for example, but am looking
> at the market to see how far up the chain I can go for a reasonable
> price. For me, that's not a whole lot more than US$200, and it used
> to be US$140 or so.
> I made all these changes at the same time I switched from Win 98 to
> XP, and the new chipset has its own learning curve, so I'm not yet in
> a position to swear how wonderful it is for all possible
> applications. All I can really say is nothing has disappointed me
> yet, but the nVidia Network Access Manager and Firewall have
> presented some mysteries whose answers haven't yet been revealed. But
> I'm plugging away at it.
> My other machine is a Win 98 rig on the Asus A7N8X-X board with 512 MB
> PC 3200 RAM (the maximum Win 98 can efficiently use) with a Barton XP
> 3000, 400 mhz fsb, so we come from reasonably similar backgrounds.
>
> Check out that DFI board and read the reviews. Your plan is my plan,
> so of course it makes perfect sense. <GRIN>
>
> -Seadog
>
> Don Burnette wrote:
>> I am strongly considering going ahead and upgrading to an AMD 64 bit
>> system.
>>
>> Due to the fact that I am a frequent upgrader, I don't mind smaller
>> steps than some. Right now, I do not see a real need to go
>> 939/Nforce4/pci express. I think I would rather wait a year or so
>> when the kinks are worked out.
>> However, I have heard good things about the performance of the
>> socket 754 processer with an Nforce3 motherboard.
>> Yes, I know it is not as upgradeable for the future, but I don't mind
>> investing in a new motherboard/processor in the next year or two. I
>> would just like to get more bang for my buck now.
>>
>> My system specs now:
>>
>> Athlon XP 2800+ Barton, overclocked to 3200+ speeds.
>> 1 gb of Corsair matched LL pc3200 ram.
>> ATI Radeon 9800 Pro 128 mb vid card. ( overclocked as well).
>> Audigy2 ZS
>> Asus A7N8X Deluxe Ver2 mb.
>>
>> It's still a good system, but now I want better. I simply cannot go
>> for too long without upgrading, drives me nuts!! . I have been
>> running AMD for some time now, and want to stick with it.
>>
>> I would be interested in any opinions, especially those that
>> currently have a socket 754 Athlon mb, or even socket 939.
>>
>> My main performance interest - gaming, particularly flight sims. IL2,
>> want to get Lomac, EECH, have MSFS 2002, want to get 2004.
>>
>> I figure I can go ahead and get a 754 mb and processor, continue to
>> use the Radeon 9800 pro, then upgrade the vid card to next
>> generation when they come down some in price and are more readily
>> available - then, in a year to year and a half, make the move to
>> socket 939 and pci express. Thanks,

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.flight-sim (More info?)

"Don Burnette" <d.burnette@clothes.comcast.net> wrote in message
news:6P2dnTKDZZP_hnrcRVn-iQ@giganews.com...
> I am strongly considering going ahead and upgrading to an AMD 64 bit
> system.
>
> Due to the fact that I am a frequent upgrader, I don't mind smaller steps
> than some. Right now, I do not see a real need to go 939/Nforce4/pci
> express. I think I would rather wait a year or so when the kinks are
worked
> out.
> However, I have heard good things about the performance of the socket 754
> processer with an Nforce3 motherboard.
> Yes, I know it is not as upgradeable for the future, but I don't mind
> investing in a new motherboard/processor in the next year or two. I would
> just like to get more bang for my buck now.
>
> My system specs now:
>
> Athlon XP 2800+ Barton, overclocked to 3200+ speeds.
> 1 gb of Corsair matched LL pc3200 ram.
> ATI Radeon 9800 Pro 128 mb vid card. ( overclocked as well).
> Audigy2 ZS
> Asus A7N8X Deluxe Ver2 mb.
>
> It's still a good system, but now I want better. I simply cannot go for
too
> long without upgrading, drives me nuts!! . I have been running AMD for
> some time now, and want to stick with it.
>
> I would be interested in any opinions, especially those that currently
have
> a socket 754 Athlon mb, or even socket 939.
>
> My main performance interest - gaming, particularly flight sims. IL2,
want
> to get Lomac, EECH, have MSFS 2002, want to get 2004.
>
> I figure I can go ahead and get a 754 mb and processor, continue to use
the
> Radeon 9800 pro, then upgrade the vid card to next generation when they
come
> down some in price and are more readily available - then, in a year to
year
> and a half, make the move to socket 939 and pci express.
>

Don,

I have pretty much the same system that you have (expect I haven't OC my cpu
or video card). Have you seen that much of a gain by OC your cpu & video
card?

Here's my 2 cents on upgrading. Even if you upgrade to an AMD 64 system,
the ATI 9800 pro is still going to be the main bottleneck; especially in
graphic intense games like Doom 3 and HL2 (but since you didn't list them
this might be an issue). Not sure about LoMAC (it might be a cpu hog vs
video card) or MSFS 2002/4.

I'm been thinking about upgrading my system for the last 3 months. I was
just about ready to jump on the new AMD 64 3500 939 cpu & PCIe mbs. But
now they even have an AMD 3000 & 3200 socket 939 cpu out. Two features
with these cpus/mbs that I'm interested in is the dual DDR support with 939
socket & the PCIe video card support.

I don't know if you've looked at the Nvidia 6600 PCIe video card? It
doesn't cost and arm and a leg. And it provides some decent frame rates for
games.

Here's 3 Hardware sites that I use when I'm thinking of upgrading.

http://www.sharkyextreme.com/index.php
http://www.anandtech.com/
http://www.tomshardware.com/

This link shows a nice road map for the AMD 64 processors
http://www.anandtech.com/cpuchipsets/showdoc.aspx?i=2303

Note: most online hardware web sites don't use the games that you've listed
when they do benchmark results. So this makes it a little harder to
determine if you need to get an AMD 64 3500 vs 3000. Or whether to get
video card X vs card Y.

If you do upgrade let us know the before and after results.

Old Dog

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.flight-sim (More info?)

OldDog wrote:
> "Don Burnette" <d.burnette@clothes.comcast.net> wrote in message
> news:6P2dnTKDZZP_hnrcRVn-iQ@giganews.com...
>> I am strongly considering going ahead and upgrading to an AMD 64 bit
>> system.
>>
>> Due to the fact that I am a frequent upgrader, I don't mind smaller
>> steps than some. Right now, I do not see a real need to go
>> 939/Nforce4/pci express. I think I would rather wait a year or so
>> when the kinks are worked out.
>> However, I have heard good things about the performance of the
>> socket 754 processer with an Nforce3 motherboard.
>> Yes, I know it is not as upgradeable for the future, but I don't mind
>> investing in a new motherboard/processor in the next year or two. I
>> would just like to get more bang for my buck now.
>>
>> My system specs now:
>>
>> Athlon XP 2800+ Barton, overclocked to 3200+ speeds.
>> 1 gb of Corsair matched LL pc3200 ram.
>> ATI Radeon 9800 Pro 128 mb vid card. ( overclocked as well).
>> Audigy2 ZS
>> Asus A7N8X Deluxe Ver2 mb.
>>
>> It's still a good system, but now I want better. I simply cannot go
>> for too long without upgrading, drives me nuts!! . I have been
>> running AMD for some time now, and want to stick with it.
>>
>> I would be interested in any opinions, especially those that
>> currently have a socket 754 Athlon mb, or even socket 939.
>>
>> My main performance interest - gaming, particularly flight sims.
>> IL2, want to get Lomac, EECH, have MSFS 2002, want to get 2004.
>>
>> I figure I can go ahead and get a 754 mb and processor, continue to
>> use the Radeon 9800 pro, then upgrade the vid card to next
>> generation when they come down some in price and are more readily
>> available - then, in a year to year and a half, make the move to
>> socket 939 and pci express.
>>
>
> Don,
>
> I have pretty much the same system that you have (expect I haven't OC
> my cpu or video card). Have you seen that much of a gain by OC your
> cpu & video card?
>
> Here's my 2 cents on upgrading. Even if you upgrade to an AMD 64
> system, the ATI 9800 pro is still going to be the main bottleneck;
> especially in graphic intense games like Doom 3 and HL2 (but since
> you didn't list them this might be an issue). Not sure about LoMAC
> (it might be a cpu hog vs video card) or MSFS 2002/4.
>
> I'm been thinking about upgrading my system for the last 3 months.
> I was just about ready to jump on the new AMD 64 3500 939 cpu & PCIe
> mbs. But now they even have an AMD 3000 & 3200 socket 939 cpu out.
> Two features with these cpus/mbs that I'm interested in is the dual
> DDR support with 939 socket & the PCIe video card support.
>
> I don't know if you've looked at the Nvidia 6600 PCIe video card? It
> doesn't cost and arm and a leg. And it provides some decent frame
> rates for games.
>
> Here's 3 Hardware sites that I use when I'm thinking of upgrading.
>
> http://www.sharkyextreme.com/index.php
> http://www.anandtech.com/
> http://www.tomshardware.com/
>
> This link shows a nice road map for the AMD 64 processors
> http://www.anandtech.com/cpuchipsets/showdoc.aspx?i=2303
>
> Note: most online hardware web sites don't use the games that you've
> listed when they do benchmark results. So this makes it a little
> harder to determine if you need to get an AMD 64 3500 vs 3000. Or
> whether to get video card X vs card Y.
>
> If you do upgrade let us know the before and after results.
>
> Old Dog


I do see some gain from overclocking my system, in Pacific Fighters for
example, I may gain 3-5 fps. In 3d Mark 2003, perhaps 200-300 points.
I guess I do it more to get as much out of my system as I can, plus to me
it's fun. I enjoy tweaking memory settings, fsb, cpu multiplier, video
card,etc. I have been overclocking my systems ( I build my own) since the
Celeron 300A. I have never had a problem by doing this, but it is not for
the faint hearted..

I have really struggled with the 754 versus 939, and PCIe versus AGP. I have
about convinced myself 754 is the way to go for me for the short term. PCIe
is new, socket 939 is new, Nforce4 has just come out and it is new, etc.
Plus of course, the price of these components are fairly high. By my way of
thinking, if I was going to invest and upgrade my system to last somewhat
long term, then waiting a few months and going with the 939-Nforce4-PCIe
would be the way to go. But as mentioned, I can't go too long without
upgrading something, so I am thinkin 754 with a Nforce3 mb for me would be
the way to go - cheaper, faster, and should be a nice improvement over what
I currently have. Yes, I would lose the dual ddr performance, from what I
have read though it is only about a 5% performance boost at best. I also
have read that currently , PCIe does not offer any performance gain versus
AGP, but down the road certainly it will. It also looks like Nvidia, and
possibly ATI, are going to be able to develop a PCIe-AGP bridge for their
chips.

Video card - I am struggling here also. Part of me wants to seriously
consider the Nvidia 6800 gt or ultra. Mainly due to Pixel Shader 3 , which
Pacific Fighters utilizes for perfect water. However, that is the only game
so far that I know of that really utilizes that technology - and, from what
I am reading on the forums, folks claim that even with the 6800, trying to
run perfect water really pulls the fps down to almost unplayable.
Plus, right now, I am an ATI fan. I used to be Nvidia, but when the 9700 Pro
came out , I switched, and have been very pleased. Then I went to the 9800
Pro, selling my 9700 on Ebay. I really like the way these cards handle AA,
and the colors and 2d to me look better. I don't think I am quite ready to
move back to Nvidia. I would like to get the X800XL when it becomes
available, but would want to wait until prices come down some.

I don't know, perhaps I should get the 6800 as a short term card. I will be
reformatting or repairing XP Pro when I put new mb in anyways, and that
would be a good time to switch to Nvidia. Then later, when MS releases it's
64 bit XP Pro , that would be a good time I guess to go back to ATI . See
how I like to analyze?

I got my annual bonus yesterday ( had a great year last year), so I will be
upgrading here fairly soon. I am also getting the Uber2nxt gimball mod with
Hall sensors for my Cougar, so you can see my main gaming for now is flight
sims .

Thanks for the links, I will check them out. I normally use NewEgg for my
hardware.

I'll let y'all know when I have the components, then I will benchmark this
sytem before shutting her down for the final time, and then benchmark the
new 64 bit system once it is up and running, and give the comparisons.

Thanks,

--
Don Burnette

"When you decide something is impossible to do, try to stay out of the
way of the man that's doing it."

 

[am]

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.flight-sim (More info?)

"Don Burnette" <d.burnette@clothes.comcast.net> wrote in message
news:B7WdndKMs7lLoHTcRVn-oQ@giganews.com...
>
>
> I do see some gain from overclocking my system,


I see some positive gain from it. I have a P 4 3.20E
(stepping stone 0) running at 3.81, with ram set at
2.5, 3, 3, 5. Notice a significant gain from running at
3.20 !! Gain about 5 - 7 fps in online dogfights, offline
about the same. My video card is a lowly Gainward
FX 5900 Ultra.
Abit mb, water cooled socket 478 CPU, Northbridge,
1 gig Corsair ram

I like this thread as my friend wants me to build him a
new system, and has been looking at the new Athalon
chips, FX 53, and FX 55 (?)
I will see what happens




































--
Only A Gentleman Can Insult Me And A True Gentleman Never Will

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.flight-sim (More info?)

"Don Burnette" <d.burnette@clothes.comcast.net> wrote in message
news:B7WdndKMs7lLoHTcRVn-oQ@giganews.com...
> OldDog wrote:
<snip>
> Video card - I am struggling here also. Part of me wants to seriously
> consider the Nvidia 6800 gt or ultra. Mainly due to Pixel Shader 3 , which
> Pacific Fighters utilizes for perfect water. However, that is the only
game
> so far that I know of that really utilizes that technology - and, from
what
> I am reading on the forums, folks claim that even with the 6800, trying to
> run perfect water really pulls the fps down to almost unplayable.
> Plus, right now, I am an ATI fan. I used to be Nvidia, but when the 9700
Pro
> came out , I switched, and have been very pleased. Then I went to the 9800
> Pro, selling my 9700 on Ebay. I really like the way these cards handle AA,
> and the colors and 2d to me look better. I don't think I am quite ready to
> move back to Nvidia. I would like to get the X800XL when it becomes
> available, but would want to wait until prices come down some.
>

I was a big Nvidia fan too back with the first GeForce cards. But they
dropped the ball with those newer cards that came after the Geforce 4.
While I'm happy with the ATI 9800 pro, I think Nvidia is getting back on
track with the 6800 & 6600 video cards. So it'll be interesting to see
which card down the road I'll go with.


> I don't know, perhaps I should get the 6800 as a short term card. I will
be
> reformatting or repairing XP Pro when I put new mb in anyways, and that
> would be a good time to switch to Nvidia. Then later, when MS releases
it's
> 64 bit XP Pro , that would be a good time I guess to go back to ATI .
See
> how I like to analyze?
>

I use to like to analyze....but now it just gives me a headache. All them
numbers, charts, graphs....

> I got my annual bonus yesterday ( had a great year last year), so I will
be
> upgrading here fairly soon. I am also getting the Uber2nxt gimball mod
with
> Hall sensors for my Cougar, so you can see my main gaming for now is
flight
> sims .
>

Someone has got some $ burning a hole in their pocket. I can run most of
my games ok at 1024 rez with med-hi details. But then there's games like
LoMAC. For some reason I can't even play it at 640 rez with low details.
That's when I pull up the web sites and start pricing AMD 64 4000 cpus with
dual 6800 video cards.

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.flight-sim (More info?)

--
Don Burnette

"When you decide something is impossible to do, try to stay out of the way
of the man that's doing it."

"AM" <SCTUSER@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:vtqdneF26vEJzHfcRVn-og@comcast.com...
>
> "Don Burnette" <d.burnette@clothes.comcast.net> wrote in message
> news:B7WdndKMs7lLoHTcRVn-oQ@giganews.com...
>>
>>
>> I do see some gain from overclocking my system,
>
>
> I see some positive gain from it. I have a P 4 3.20E
> (stepping stone 0) running at 3.81, with ram set at
> 2.5, 3, 3, 5. Notice a significant gain from running at
> 3.20 !! Gain about 5 - 7 fps in online dogfights, offline
> about the same. My video card is a lowly Gainward
> FX 5900 Ultra.
> Abit mb, water cooled socket 478 CPU, Northbridge,
> 1 gig Corsair ram
>
> I like this thread as my friend wants me to build him a
> new system, and has been looking at the new Athalon
> chips, FX 53, and FX 55 (?)
> I will see what happens
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> --
> Only A Gentleman Can Insult Me And A True Gentleman Never Will
>

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.flight-sim (More info?)

AM wrote:
> "Don Burnette" <d.burnette@clothes.comcast.net> wrote in message
> news:B7WdndKMs7lLoHTcRVn-oQ@giganews.com...
>>
>>
>> I do see some gain from overclocking my system,
>
>
> I see some positive gain from it. I have a P 4 3.20E
> (stepping stone 0) running at 3.81, with ram set at
> 2.5, 3, 3, 5. Notice a significant gain from running at
> 3.20 !! Gain about 5 - 7 fps in online dogfights, offline
> about the same. My video card is a lowly Gainward
> FX 5900 Ultra.
> Abit mb, water cooled socket 478 CPU, Northbridge,
> 1 gig Corsair ram
>
> I like this thread as my friend wants me to build him a
> new system, and has been looking at the new Athalon
> chips, FX 53, and FX 55 (?)
> I will see what happens


I am really torn. Yesterday I was convinced socket 754 / Nforce3 was the way
to go. Matter of fact, I already have the motherboard - Asus, cpu - 3400 XP
64, heatsink - Thermalrite , and Lai Lin case in my basket at Newegg.
Now I am thinking of waiting couple of months and going with socket 939/pci
express.
*^%#@

I most likely will end up with my original plan, I still would like to see
the dust settle and intitial bugs worked out on the 939/nforce4.


--
Don Burnette

"When you decide something is impossible to do, try to stay out of the
way of the man that's doing it."

 

[am]

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.flight-sim (More info?)

"Don Burnette" <d.burnette@clothes.comcast.net> wrote in message
news:-tidnXGfb6IiEHfcRVn-iQ@giganews.com...

>
> I most likely will end up with my original plan, I still would like to see
> the dust settle and intitial bugs worked out on the 939/nforce4.
>
>

You mean something like this ?

AMD Athlon 64 3500+ Processor Socket 939 & Asus A8N-SLI Deluxe nForce 4 SLI
Athlon 64(FX) Skt939 Motherboard Retail Bundle ***Free 2nd Day***

http://www.zipzoomfly.com/jsp/ProductDetail.jsp?ProductCode=80717-R-240418

For $465.00. Hmmm... not bad......



I honestly dont know what to do, I am used to building Intel only
so far, this is all new to me My friend definately has the $$$, so
I will se if this (and a lot more) will do for starters.

Personally this spring, I'm shooting for a new box as well.......






































--
Only A Gentleman Can Insult Me And A True Gentleman Never Will

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.flight-sim (More info?)

AM wrote:
> "Don Burnette" <d.burnette@clothes.comcast.net> wrote in message
> news:-tidnXGfb6IiEHfcRVn-iQ@giganews.com...
>
>>
>> I most likely will end up with my original plan, I still would like
>> to see the dust settle and intitial bugs worked out on the
>> 939/nforce4.
>
> You mean something like this ?
>
> AMD Athlon 64 3500+ Processor Socket 939 & Asus A8N-SLI Deluxe nForce
> 4 SLI Athlon 64(FX) Skt939 Motherboard Retail Bundle ***Free 2nd
> Day***
> http://www.zipzoomfly.com/jsp/ProductDetail.jsp?ProductCode=80717-R-240418
>
> For $465.00. Hmmm... not bad......
>
>
>
> I honestly dont know what to do, I am used to building Intel only
> so far, this is all new to me My friend definately has the $$$, so
> I will se if this (and a lot more) will do for starters.
>
> Personally this spring, I'm shooting for a new box as well.......


Well, I just ran some numbers, and have two wish lists at NewEgg.
One for socket 754/Nforce3, and the other for socket 939/Nforce4 Ultra ( pci
express)

Both upgrades include a full tower Lai Lin silver alum case, and both
include a Radeon X800 Pro video card ( agp for 754, and pci express for
939).

The 939/Nforce4 comes it right at 1200 bucks.
The 754/Nforce3 comes in right at 1000 bucks.

Based on the small price difference, I think the way to go now would be
socket 939/Nforce4. My only hesitation would be the fact it is newer
technology, and I wonder if there are any major bugs with it. One thing I
like about this 939 mb, is it has 3 pci slots in addition to the 2 pci
express x16 slots, and the 2 pci express X1 slots. So I can stil utilize my
pci audigy2 zs soundcard.

Of course, I could cut out the x800 pro on the socket 754, as it is agp and
I could use my existing 9800 pro, which would really cut the cost down on
the 754 setup, and add better video card later. Can't quite do that with the
939 as I would need the pci express video card.




--
Don Burnette

"When you decide something is impossible to do, try to stay out of the
way of the man that's doing it."

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.flight-sim (More info?)

The luxury of choices is its own agony, eh, Don?

When I chose the 754 route detailed above, I did so only after reading
board reviews on 754s and 939s (features, physical layout, memory
compatibility, etc.) at Anandtech, Tom's and Extreme Tech and more than
a half dozen others, downloading and reading the actual motherboard
manuals to see the BIOS options for myself, checking memory
compatibility, reading up on chip sets at the manufacturers' sites, and
reading heavily in half a dozen hardware forums, both private and those
of manufacturers (see VIA's if endless agony fascinates you). I spend
way too much time as a troubleshooter even with stable gear, and don't
want to end up with an arrow in my back drooling over cutting edge gear
that frustrates me to death.

For me, the combination of savings and rock solid performance made the
754 using an nForce3 250GB a hugely desired choice. The savings realized
by that set of options will make me less reluctant to upgrade in the
future when stability issues have been resolved in 939 boards and when
some graphics technology is developed that needs and can use the extra
bandwidth of PCI express (which I believe from my reading is not used by
any graphics card on the market today).

When I bought this stuff back in October, the Antec Sonata case with
True 380 ps cost $60 net on sale locally, the AMD 64 3000 PIB proc cost
$159, the 2 512 MB Corsair PC 3200 sticks of RAM cost $158 and the DFI
mobo cost $115. That's $482. Everything else was re-cycled from the
previous rig, including the ATI 9600. That leaves me with $518 savings
over what you costed out at $1000, for which I could buy a wastefully
expensive top end graphics card, and maybe even another stick of RAM !

When I move on to my next rig, I won't feel like I'm wasting a lot of
money letting this one go, and this one does everything I ask of it with
no trouble. I could even overclock it to the next galaxy and back if I
felt like it, and it wouldn't complain, but I'm flat tired of being a
computer fixer and just want to be a user, if you know what I mean. I
want to drive the car, not just have visitation rights with it in the shop.

Everybody has their own priorities, but that's the set of philosophies
that drive my choices.

-Seadog



Don Burnette wrote:
> AM wrote:
>
>>"Don Burnette" <d.burnette@clothes.comcast.net> wrote in message
>>news:-tidnXGfb6IiEHfcRVn-iQ@giganews.com...
>>
>>
>>>I most likely will end up with my original plan, I still would like
>>>to see the dust settle and intitial bugs worked out on the
>>>939/nforce4.
>>
>>You mean something like this ?
>>
>>AMD Athlon 64 3500+ Processor Socket 939 & Asus A8N-SLI Deluxe nForce
>>4 SLI Athlon 64(FX) Skt939 Motherboard Retail Bundle ***Free 2nd
>>Day***
>>http://www.zipzoomfly.com/jsp/ProductDetail.jsp?ProductCode=80717-R-240418
>>
>>For $465.00. Hmmm... not bad......
>>
>>
>>
>>I honestly dont know what to do, I am used to building Intel only
>>so far, this is all new to me My friend definately has the $$$, so
>>I will se if this (and a lot more) will do for starters.
>>
>>Personally this spring, I'm shooting for a new box as well.......
>
>
>
> Well, I just ran some numbers, and have two wish lists at NewEgg.
> One for socket 754/Nforce3, and the other for socket 939/Nforce4 Ultra ( pci
> express)
>
> Both upgrades include a full tower Lai Lin silver alum case, and both
> include a Radeon X800 Pro video card ( agp for 754, and pci express for
> 939).
>
> The 939/Nforce4 comes it right at 1200 bucks.
> The 754/Nforce3 comes in right at 1000 bucks.
>
> Based on the small price difference, I think the way to go now would be
> socket 939/Nforce4. My only hesitation would be the fact it is newer
> technology, and I wonder if there are any major bugs with it. One thing I
> like about this 939 mb, is it has 3 pci slots in addition to the 2 pci
> express x16 slots, and the 2 pci express X1 slots. So I can stil utilize my
> pci audigy2 zs soundcard.
>
> Of course, I could cut out the x800 pro on the socket 754, as it is agp and
> I could use my existing 9800 pro, which would really cut the cost down on
> the 754 setup, and add better video card later. Can't quite do that with the
> 939 as I would need the pci express video card.
>
>
>
>

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.flight-sim (More info?)

Ok, cool!

Thanks for the info on your research and experience.

I am going with the tried and true - the 754 with the Nforce2 250 mb.
I don't need to spend that much anyways, and in about a year or so when the
939/Nforce4/PCI express both comes down in price and some early bugs worked
out, I won't mind upgrading to it.

I could save money and keep my case, I will be using everything else, cept I
may go ahead with the vid card - but I really want the Lai Lin case for
cooling, and I plan on building my daughter that lives with me an
inexpensive system utilizing my current case, mobo, and cpu.

Thanks for sharing that info Seadog,



--
Don Burnette

"When you decide something is impossible to do, try to stay out of the
way of the man that's doing it."




Seadog wrote:
> The luxury of choices is its own agony, eh, Don?
>
> When I chose the 754 route detailed above, I did so only after reading
> board reviews on 754s and 939s (features, physical layout, memory
> compatibility, etc.) at Anandtech, Tom's and Extreme Tech and more
> than a half dozen others, downloading and reading the actual motherboard
> manuals to see the BIOS options for myself, checking memory
> compatibility, reading up on chip sets at the manufacturers' sites,
> and reading heavily in half a dozen hardware forums, both private and
> those of manufacturers (see VIA's if endless agony fascinates you). I
> spend
> way too much time as a troubleshooter even with stable gear, and don't
> want to end up with an arrow in my back drooling over cutting edge
> gear that frustrates me to death.
>
> For me, the combination of savings and rock solid performance made the
> 754 using an nForce3 250GB a hugely desired choice. The savings
> realized by that set of options will make me less reluctant to
> upgrade in the future when stability issues have been resolved in 939
> boards and when some graphics technology is developed that needs and
> can use the extra bandwidth of PCI express (which I believe from my
> reading is not used by any graphics card on the market today).
>
> When I bought this stuff back in October, the Antec Sonata case with
> True 380 ps cost $60 net on sale locally, the AMD 64 3000 PIB proc
> cost $159, the 2 512 MB Corsair PC 3200 sticks of RAM cost $158 and
> the DFI mobo cost $115. That's $482. Everything else was re-cycled
> from the previous rig, including the ATI 9600. That leaves me with
> $518 savings over what you costed out at $1000, for which I could buy
> a wastefully expensive top end graphics card, and maybe even another
> stick of RAM !
> When I move on to my next rig, I won't feel like I'm wasting a lot of
> money letting this one go, and this one does everything I ask of it
> with no trouble. I could even overclock it to the next galaxy and
> back if I felt like it, and it wouldn't complain, but I'm flat tired
> of being a computer fixer and just want to be a user, if you know
> what I mean. I want to drive the car, not just have visitation rights with
> it in the
> shop.
> Everybody has their own priorities, but that's the set of philosophies
> that drive my choices.
>
> -Seadog
>
>
>
> Don Burnette wrote:
>> AM wrote:
>>
>>> "Don Burnette" <d.burnette@clothes.comcast.net> wrote in message
>>> news:-tidnXGfb6IiEHfcRVn-iQ@giganews.com...
>>>
>>>
>>>> I most likely will end up with my original plan, I still would like
>>>> to see the dust settle and intitial bugs worked out on the
>>>> 939/nforce4.
>>>
>>> You mean something like this ?
>>>
>>> AMD Athlon 64 3500+ Processor Socket 939 & Asus A8N-SLI Deluxe
>>> nForce 4 SLI Athlon 64(FX) Skt939 Motherboard Retail Bundle ***Free
>>> 2nd Day***
>>> http://www.zipzoomfly.com/jsp/ProductDetail.jsp?ProductCode=80717-R-240418
>>>
>>> For $465.00. Hmmm... not bad......
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> I honestly dont know what to do, I am used to building Intel only
>>> so far, this is all new to me My friend definately has the $$$, so
>>> I will se if this (and a lot more) will do for starters.
>>>
>>> Personally this spring, I'm shooting for a new box as well.......
>>
>>
>>
>> Well, I just ran some numbers, and have two wish lists at NewEgg.
>> One for socket 754/Nforce3, and the other for socket 939/Nforce4
>> Ultra ( pci express)
>>
>> Both upgrades include a full tower Lai Lin silver alum case, and both
>> include a Radeon X800 Pro video card ( agp for 754, and pci express
>> for 939).
>>
>> The 939/Nforce4 comes it right at 1200 bucks.
>> The 754/Nforce3 comes in right at 1000 bucks.
>>
>> Based on the small price difference, I think the way to go now would
>> be socket 939/Nforce4. My only hesitation would be the fact it is
>> newer technology, and I wonder if there are any major bugs with it. One
>> thing I like about this 939 mb, is it has 3 pci slots in
>> addition to the 2 pci express x16 slots, and the 2 pci express X1
>> slots. So I can stil utilize my pci audigy2 zs soundcard.
>>
>> Of course, I could cut out the x800 pro on the socket 754, as it is
>> agp and I could use my existing 9800 pro, which would really cut the
>> cost down on the 754 setup, and add better video card later. Can't
>> quite do that with the 939 as I would need the pci express video
>> card.

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.flight-sim (More info?)

Just to stir the pot a little more.

What if a user got a new 939 cpu/mb system and there were a few "bugs" with
it? Does that mean down the road that they hope the companies releases an
update?

I guess in this case there's "two" possible fixes: one from the mb company
and one from the BIOS people? While I've read a little about flashing a
BIOS, I've never done it. And does either fix/update require having to
reinstall Windows, patch, flash, .... reinstall all programs?

"Don Burnette" <d.burnette@clothes.comcast.net> wrote in message
news:JKKdnf78YpRVeHfcRVn-1Q@giganews.com...
> Ok, cool!
>
> Thanks for the info on your research and experience.
>
<snip>

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.flight-sim (More info?)

I think you raise two different kinds of issues, although they can overlap.

The bugs you refer to can basically either be bad equipment or a poorly
programmed BIOS. For example, BIOS can control how well different kinds
and amounts of RAM are recognized and accepted by a mobo, but so can a
poorly designed or implemented chipset. There, either hardware or BIOS
may be at fault. A few years ago, mobo makers used some pretty poor
capacitors on their boards, causing endless problems. Japanese
capacitors have a sterling reputation, so I favor those even if the
other suppliers have begun to get their acts in shape.

BIOS, being a program, is easier to fix, and BIOS revisions come out
frequently. Same goes with chipset drivers. Flashing a BIOS is reputed
to be difficult, but it's not. It's just dangerous because the process
has to be done exactly right and has to finish. A power interruption can
ruin your BIOS and render the board useless. That's the only real danger
(other than operator error). It only takes a minute or two for the
reprogramming to run its course, and you gamble the electricity won't
fail during that time. Installing new chipset drivers runs no such risk.

In the case of the failing capacitors, quite a few manufacturers of
motherboards instituted quiet full exchange and replacement programs.

In both cases, hardware and BIOS, it all comes from the mobo maker. They
specify to the BIOS people what they want.

Flashing your BIOS to upgrade it is the only step you take in a BIOS
replacement. You don't have to reinstall anything else. You just have to
follow the specific instructions scrupulously. I've done it a couple of
times, most recently two days ago. Upgrading motherboard chipset drivers
also requires no other re-installations of anything.

If you received a hardware fix, it would mean a getting new board of
virtually the same kind, but the BIOS and chipset drivers should remain
the same, so that, too, probably wouldn't require anything to be
re-installed.

Getting to the real nub of your question, if the hardware hasn't failed
mechanically and is physically operating as it was designed to operate,
then any inadequacies it may present are not going to be fixed for you
at someone else's expense. You will need to buy a better board. If the
inadequacies can be remedied by a mere upgrade of the chipset drivers
and/or by a BIOS upgrade, then, yes, you must hope the mobo maker
chooses to provide that. Chipset drivers come from chipset makers,
though, and they control whether to provide an update of their drivers,
while the choice about providing a new BIOS is purely that of the mobo
maker.

Such hardware inadequacies are often addressed by mobo makers releasing
Revisions of motherboards, but newly released Revisions do not entitle
the owner of the previous Revision to a free replacement, unless
(generally speaking) you can make some sort of claim of fraud concerning
the advertised capabilities of the prior Revision.

In the specific case of the 939 boards and their finicky RAM appetites,
the mobo makers cover themselves by specifying exact model numbers of
exact sticks of RAM that they have tested and found to work. Use
something even slightly different and all bets are off, you're on your
own. In case you can't find or afford what they used, your only real
alternative is to buy direct from Crucial, using their memory selector
function. If you use that, Crucial guarantees the RAM will work or your
money back. What they don't guarantee, and it's the real problem with
939 boards, is that the memory will work if installed in more than one
bank at a time. Of course, you could always just buy one gigantic stick
of RAM, but then you can't utilize the alleged benefits of dual-channel
memory access, one of the primary reasons for choosing a 939 board over
a 754 one in the first place.

The Tom's Hardware site did a very thorough study of the original crop
of 939 boards and their ability to use various kinds and combinations of
RAM last year. It was enough to make one swear off adult beverages
entirely. <GRIN> Hope that helps,

-Seadog

OldDog wrote:
> Just to stir the pot a little more.
>
> What if a user got a new 939 cpu/mb system and there were a few "bugs" with
> it? Does that mean down the road that they hope the companies releases an
> update?
>
> I guess in this case there's "two" possible fixes: one from the mb company
> and one from the BIOS people? While I've read a little about flashing a
> BIOS, I've never done it. And does either fix/update require having to
> reinstall Windows, patch, flash, .... reinstall all programs?

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.flight-sim (More info?)

Thanks for the info Seadog.

While I've done the mb driver updates, I've never updated the BIOS. I've
read about if power is lost you're hosed, I've just never bothered with
checking for updates to the BIOS since most of my games run ok. Except for
LoMAC. 🙁

Plus you brought up two items that I had forgotten about. One being the
reliability of the hardware on the mb (capictors, chips, resistors, ....).
The other issue being what RAM chips are know to work with a mb.

So many things to consider when building a pc.... I think I'm going to just
use iBuy or Velocity and let someone else mess with configuring the system.
I've lost enough hair these last 20+ years messing with computers.

http://www.ibuypower.com/mall/lobby.htm

http://www.velocitymicro.com/

Anyone buy from these 2 before? I'd go with FalconNW or Alienware if my
lottery tickets are winners this time.


"Seadog" <seadog@nunyabidness.com> wrote in message
news:0BEGd.2678$2e7.2188@newssvr12.news.prodigy.com...
> I think you raise two different kinds of issues, although they can
overlap.
>
> The bugs you refer to can basically either be bad equipment or a poorly
> programmed BIOS. For example, BIOS can control how well different kinds
> and amounts of RAM are recognized and accepted by a mobo, but so can a
> poorly designed or implemented chipset. There, either hardware or BIOS
> may be at fault. A few years ago, mobo makers used some pretty poor
> capacitors on their boards, causing endless problems. Japanese
> capacitors have a sterling reputation, so I favor those even if the
> other suppliers have begun to get their acts in shape.
>
> BIOS, being a program, is easier to fix, and BIOS revisions come out
> frequently. Same goes with chipset drivers. Flashing a BIOS is reputed
> to be difficult, but it's not. It's just dangerous because the process
> has to be done exactly right and has to finish. A power interruption can
> ruin your BIOS and render the board useless. That's the only real danger
> (other than operator error). It only takes a minute or two for the
> reprogramming to run its course, and you gamble the electricity won't
> fail during that time. Installing new chipset drivers runs no such risk.
>
> In the case of the failing capacitors, quite a few manufacturers of
> motherboards instituted quiet full exchange and replacement programs.
>
> In both cases, hardware and BIOS, it all comes from the mobo maker. They
> specify to the BIOS people what they want.
>
> Flashing your BIOS to upgrade it is the only step you take in a BIOS
> replacement. You don't have to reinstall anything else. You just have to
> follow the specific instructions scrupulously. I've done it a couple of
> times, most recently two days ago. Upgrading motherboard chipset drivers
> also requires no other re-installations of anything.
>
> If you received a hardware fix, it would mean a getting new board of
> virtually the same kind, but the BIOS and chipset drivers should remain
> the same, so that, too, probably wouldn't require anything to be
> re-installed.
>
> Getting to the real nub of your question, if the hardware hasn't failed
> mechanically and is physically operating as it was designed to operate,
> then any inadequacies it may present are not going to be fixed for you
> at someone else's expense. You will need to buy a better board. If the
> inadequacies can be remedied by a mere upgrade of the chipset drivers
> and/or by a BIOS upgrade, then, yes, you must hope the mobo maker
> chooses to provide that. Chipset drivers come from chipset makers,
> though, and they control whether to provide an update of their drivers,
> while the choice about providing a new BIOS is purely that of the mobo
> maker.
>
> Such hardware inadequacies are often addressed by mobo makers releasing
> Revisions of motherboards, but newly released Revisions do not entitle
> the owner of the previous Revision to a free replacement, unless
> (generally speaking) you can make some sort of claim of fraud concerning
> the advertised capabilities of the prior Revision.
>
> In the specific case of the 939 boards and their finicky RAM appetites,
> the mobo makers cover themselves by specifying exact model numbers of
> exact sticks of RAM that they have tested and found to work. Use
> something even slightly different and all bets are off, you're on your
> own. In case you can't find or afford what they used, your only real
> alternative is to buy direct from Crucial, using their memory selector
> function. If you use that, Crucial guarantees the RAM will work or your
> money back. What they don't guarantee, and it's the real problem with
> 939 boards, is that the memory will work if installed in more than one
> bank at a time. Of course, you could always just buy one gigantic stick
> of RAM, but then you can't utilize the alleged benefits of dual-channel
> memory access, one of the primary reasons for choosing a 939 board over
> a 754 one in the first place.
>
> The Tom's Hardware site did a very thorough study of the original crop
> of 939 boards and their ability to use various kinds and combinations of
> RAM last year. It was enough to make one swear off adult beverages
> entirely. <GRIN> Hope that helps,
>
> -Seadog
>
> OldDog wrote:
> > Just to stir the pot a little more.
> >
> > What if a user got a new 939 cpu/mb system and there were a few "bugs"
with
> > it? Does that mean down the road that they hope the companies
releases an
> > update?
> >
> > I guess in this case there's "two" possible fixes: one from the mb
company
> > and one from the BIOS people? While I've read a little about flashing
a
> > BIOS, I've never done it. And does either fix/update require having to
> > reinstall Windows, patch, flash, .... reinstall all programs?