Question 7800x3D returned. Which option would you choose: 13700k, 13600k or 5800x3D?

SydB12

Prominent
Feb 10, 2023
23
5
515
Hi, after spending 3 weeks researching PC components (I wasted a lot of time finding a mobo w/o intel ethernet chip + spdif), I decided to build a new gaming system around a 7800x3D for the next 4-5 years. Despite my last 2 systems being a 3570k and 8600k (both oc'ed and paired with a 1050ti and 1070), this time I decided to give a chance to red team due to the efficiency/performance of x3D architecture. All components were packed over my desk, waiting for the GPU to arrive, but after seeing all the issues that AM5 platform is having... I decided to return CPU+mobo+RAM, cancel the order for the 7900xtx, and plan something new. I might have panicked, but it is how it is. This was the original build for 2790€:
  • CPU: 7800x3D
  • mobo: x670e Steel Legend
  • RAM: G.Skill 32gb ddr5, 6000, cl30 (expo)
  • case: 5000D airflow (to have the chance to go custom liquid cooling in the future)
  • PSU: rm1000x shift (cheaper than the non-shift model when i bought it)
  • GPU: 7900xtx Sapphire nitro+
  • cooler: Thermaltake PE 120se
And now I'd like to know your opinion between the 3 clear options that I see for my re-build. The idea is to keep case + PSU, and then depending on the build, keep the CPU cooler and maybe even upgrade the GPU. The 3 options I'm considering are:

OPTION (A): build around a 13700k which, although being a modern CPU, I'm not so happy about it when compared with the gaming price/performance/TDP that the 7800x3D was offering. Also, I believe I'd need to replace the PE 120se cooler (maybe for a Noctua NH-D15 or even some 360 aio), as the intel CPU runs hotter. The build would be then 2680€ (110€ cheaper than the original):
  • CPU: 13700k
  • mobo: z790
  • RAM: 32gb 6400 cl32 xmp
  • case: 5000D airflow
  • PSU: rm1000x shift
  • GPU: 7900xtx Sapphire nitro+
  • cooler: Noctua nh-d15
OPTION (B): build around a 13600k instead of 13700k for pure gaming. I think I could keep the PE 120se cooler in this scenario. But then, by choosing this route I could aim for a 4090 instead of the 7900xtx, with a final build cost of 3230€ (440€ over the original build which, although it could be within my budget, is starting to be a bit too much for my taste. Anyway, I'd choose this route if is the best):
  • CPU: 13600k
  • mobo: z790
  • RAM: 32gb 6400 cl32 xmp
  • case: 5000D airflow
  • PSU: rm1000x shift
  • GPU: 4090
  • cooler: Thermaltake PE 120se
OPTION (C): build around a 5800x3D with the drawback of being an older platform that I'd be building from scratch (the only thing I could use from my current intel build is the RAM and I'd only need to get 16gb cheap 3200 ddr4 to swap for it). Adding a 4090 here as well. And in 2-3 years I could just change mobo+cpu (which together cost almost the same as the 7800x3D). The build would cost 3015€ ("only" 225€ more than the original):
  • CPU: 5800x3D
  • mobo: b550
  • RAM: 32gb ddr4, 3600, cl16 (already owned)
  • case: 5000D airflow
  • PSU: rm1000x shift
  • GPU: 4090
  • cooler: Thermaltake PE 120se
IMHO, I think I prefer OPTION (C), as I believe the 4090 is a monster (an expensive one, though), and the cpu performance difference for pure gaming compared with the intel routes is not so large. What do you think? What would you do?
 

SydB12

Prominent
Feb 10, 2023
23
5
515
What country are you located (and no Europe is not a country, it's a continent), and what components do you already have?
ES.
Except the CPU, which is already refunded, and the GPU, I have everything packed and waiting to return some of those components depending on the final build option.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Why_Me
ES.
Except the CPU, which is already refunded, and the GPU, I have everything packed and waiting to return some of those components depending on the final build option.
Something like this for starters.

PCPartPicker Part List

CPU: *Intel Core i7-13700F 2.1 GHz 16-Core Processor (€369.50 @ Coolmod)
Motherboard: *MSI MAG B760 TOMAHAWK WIFI ATX LGA1700 Motherboard (€210.80 @ Neobyte)
Storage: *Crucial P5 Plus 2 TB M.2-2280 PCIe 4.0 X4 NVME Solid State Drive (€148.99 @ Amazon Espana)
Total: €729.29
Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available
*Lowest price parts chosen from parametric criteria
Generated by PCPartPicker 2023-04-30 22:11 CEST+0200
 

SydB12

Prominent
Feb 10, 2023
23
5
515
Something like this for starters.
PCPartPicker Part List

CPU: *Intel Core i7-13700F 2.1 GHz 16-Core Processor (€369.50 @ Coolmod)
Motherboard: *MSI MAG B760 TOMAHAWK WIFI ATX LGA1700 Motherboard (€210.80 @ Neobyte)
Storage: *Crucial P5 Plus 2 TB M.2-2280 PCIe 4.0 X4 NVME Solid State Drive (€148.99 @ Amazon Espana)
Total: €729.29
Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available
*Lowest price parts chosen from parametric criteria
Generated by PCPartPicker 2023-04-30 22:11 CEST+0200
Why the non-k version of the 13700? And why not a 13600k if I am going to use this pc only for gaming?
 
Why the non-k version of the 13700? And why not a 13600k if I am going to use this pc only for gaming?
The locked i7 gives near identical performance as the unlocked i7 while running cooler and costing less.

https://ark.intel.com/content/www/u...700kf-processor-30m-cache-up-to-5-40-ghz.html
Processor Base Power: 125W
Maximum Turbo Power: 253W

https://www.intel.com/content/www/u...-30m-cache-up-to-5-20-ghz/specifications.html
Processor Base Power: 65W
Maximum Turbo Power: 219W

The locked 12 gen i7 vs the unlocked 12 gen i7.

i712700.jpg
 
  • Like
Reactions: SydB12
Keep in mind the Intel is a dead end platform just like am4. If upgradeability is a concern, am5 is the way to go. From what I’m seeing they think they’ve already figured out the issues and have been pouring out patches. But it’s up to you. Keep in mind the next Intel CPUs will likely require a new motherboard so you won’t get to upgrade again. With am5 you may be able to drop in a faster cpu in a couple of years.
 
D

Deleted member 2838871

Guest
Keep in mind the Intel is a dead end platform just like am4. If upgradeability is a concern, am5 is the way to go. From what I’m seeing they think they’ve already figured out the issues and have been pouring out patches. But it’s up to you. Keep in mind the next Intel CPUs will likely require a new motherboard so you won’t get to upgrade again. With am5 you may be able to drop in a faster cpu in a couple of years.

Exactly this.

I got unlucky when my Ryzen blew up last week. Didn't cost me anything though and was replaced and updates have been released to remedy the situation.

Am I paranoid that it will happen again? Not at all... but I do know this... whenever I decide to upgrade my CPU in the next few years I won't be buying a new motherboard. ;)
 
Well, that's assuming AMD or its board partners learned their lesson with Zen 3 support on Socket AM4.

Unless AMD mandates all board partners to support Zen 6 on early AM5 boards (which good luck trying to do), we'll just be in the same poop show. I'd imagine a lot of them would hold off any sort of compatibility updates until the last second just to pad out new board sales.
 
  • Like
Reactions: SydB12
Anything you can buy today can be considered dead end.
In two years, there will be new gen processors and motherboards.
Any of the 13th gen processors you listed would be a very big jump over the 8600K.
At any price point, you mostly get what you pay for.
No longer can you get something for nothing via overclocking.
Parts are binned. If a 13600K chip could handle a good overclock, it would have been used in a 13700K or even 13900K.
Gamers now look to the default turbo mechanism to boost a couple of cores past what an all core overclock could do.
One if the factors is cpu temperature.
Here is an interesting article on how a13900K does with less than top cooling.

If you play multiplayer, then the number of cores(processing threads) becomes important.
Otherwise, it is the single thread performance that counts most.
Look up the passmark numbers for your candidates:
I5-8600K 6 10179/2613
I5-13600K 20 38442/4187
I7-13700K 24 34431/4347
R7-5800X3D 16 27553/3120

If your games are fast action and high resolution, pay more for the graphics card.

Buy what you think you will need for now and plan, perhaps for a graphics card upgrade if you are a gamer.
 
I think amd promised support for 3 years on am5. Case in point, I was running an old b350 board from 2017-18 and used it until earlier this year until I accidentally fried it. Granted I picked up a cheap b450 board just to get my system running again.

That said, considering I got that life span out of the that system, as I was running a 5000 series cpu in there, I got my money’s worth. If am5 has 2-3 years left you should be able to install something like a ryzen 9000 series cpu down the road.

According to this, zen 5 could be a jump vs zen 4. What will zen 6 look like? If you can indeed drop a zen 6 for example into the board later, the am5 platform is worth looking into.

 
Had not seen that. If that’s true then that is good news. I’ve been saying before I upgrade my am4 platform I was waiting for Intel 14th gen or ryzen 8000 series. If 14th gen is the same socket and allows ddr4 and is a decent improvement I may have to consider it. Not that ddr5 is too expensive these days but I do have a nice 32gb ddr4 kit.
 

Karadjgne

Titan
Ambassador
Every platform becomes a dead end, sooner or even sooner than that, never later. Even AM4 only lasted a few years, wasn't as adaptable as AMD had hoped, so even the X370 class mobo's were more expensive and did less overall than the cheaper B550.

Very few ppl actually upgrade the cpu when it comes to Intel. By the time the platform is 2+ years old, you'd be better off getting a 13400 than upgrading from a 11400 to 11700.

So afaiac, upgrade and dead end platforms as a thought in buying are worthless.

OC is effectively dead. With the power modern cpus can bring to bear, there's very little gain with OC, maybe an extra 200MHz if you are lucky. Locking cores is pointless, huge waste of power and excessive heat, for no gain and possibly a loss in fps since turbo on lesser core counts can exceed what the locked core value can remain stable at.

That puts the 65w class cpus like the 13700 as a much better overall value compared to the K sku cpus. Far easier to cool for almost identical performance, making them far more adaptable to different size cases, even down to mITX.

Same goes for Amd. Couple of bios tweaks for memory, a little undervolting and leave the rest well enough alone.

The X3D cpus are essentially the same as their non 3D counterparts, except in games that actually can take advantage of the higher Lcache. No different to games that benefit from DLSS or benefit from higher clock speeds etc. So depending on the exact equipment, it's possible to get better than normal fps in some games, others will be just average and some can see massive gains.

But you don't buy a pc to fit a specific game, because the next big thing will be different. So get what gives decent overall performance and forget about the exact fps because that only counts as a benchmark and you can't see the difference.
 
  • Like
Reactions: SydB12 and Why_Me
D

Deleted member 2838871

Guest
So afaiac, upgrade and dead end platforms as a thought in buying are worthless.

For me coming from 10th Gen it just made more sense to go with AM5 over 13th Gen. Sure the future upgrades with it being a new platform played a part in my decision… but not as big a part as the power draw and thermals did.

To each their own. It’s great to have choices.

Far easier to cool for almost identical performance,

You nailed it. 👍
 
  • Like
Reactions: SydB12

_dawn_chorus_

Honorable
Aug 30, 2017
558
56
11,090
Why the non-k version of the 13700? And why not a 13600k if I am going to use this pc only for gaming?
Imho, NEVER, go with an F CPU. If for some reason your GPU fails or needs an RMA, the 30 dollars or whatever currency is going to seem like chump change compared to being completely unable to use your system for that time. You are already spending ~3000.. just go for the extra 30 and call it insurance.

NOTE: The non K version is not the same as an F version in case you aren't familiar. F versions have no onboard graphics processor so you NEED a GPU to get any visual input rendering a system without a GPU useless.
 

SydB12

Prominent
Feb 10, 2023
23
5
515
Well, after seeing all your answers, it seems I'm considering another cpu candidate for my pure gaming build: 7600x. What do you think?

Reasons to choose the 7600x:
  • Runs cooler & uses less power than intel 13600 (k/no-k).
  • Is a newer platform compared to 5800x3D.
  • Performs similar to 5800x3D and 13600k.
  • I already have the rest of the components packed at home (mobo, ram, cpu cooler).
  • Costs half than 7800x3D and moving to a 8000x3D (or 9000x3D) in 2 years (at the end of platform cycle, as with 5800x3D now) will be "cheaper". Basically, Id be using the 7600x as "provisional" cpu until the x3D tech in AM5 is way more mature.
  • Even if the AM5 x3D issues were 100% solved, I believe I'd enjoy a better gaming experience with 7600x/4090 than with 7800x3D/7900xtx. (7800x3D/4090 is beyond my budget). Gaming at ultra 1440p@240hz & 4k@144hz.
Reasons not to choose 7600x:
  • I'm not sure if I'll see relevant cpu bottlenecks when paired with a 4090. I'm hoping for insignificant ones for the next 2 years, until the end of AM5 life-cycle.
  • Is still AM5 platform and this is one of my reasons behind returning my original 7800x3D. It seems that the non-x3D cpus are less susceptible to the burn-up issues.
  • For the same price I could build with a 13600k.
  • I could spend 90/140€ more and go for 7700x/13700 instead, but then I'll be 550/600€ already over my original budget. And at this point... the 7900xtx becomes again the practical choice. I'm not even sure if these cpu upgrades are even worth it for my purposes.
  • At the time of replacing this cpu with the 8000x3D /9000x3D, its second hand resell value will probably be much worse than 5800x3D (or even intel).
TBH, I'm tired of this whole explosion&burn-up situation... Same with intel ethernet mobo chips, with GPU faulty connectors... Planning the last 2-3 builds in my life were smooth, fun and entertaining experiences. Now..., I feel exhausted, angry, robbed, concerned and with the feeling that manufacturers are not giving a big F about their customers. Otherwise they would have tested with more attention/care/(love?) their expensive "early access" hardware. Sorry for the rant... I just want to enjoy, as I've done for over 30 years, with my favorite hobby...
If you have any suggestions about the build, I'll be thankful to hear them. Ty
 
Last edited:
Well, after seeing all your answers, it seems I'm considering another cpu candidate for my pure gaming build: 7600x. What do you think?

Reasons to choose the 7600x:
  • Runs cooler & uses less power than intel 13600 (k/no-k).
  • Is a newer platform compared to 5800x3D.
  • Performs similar to 5800x3D and 13600k.
  • I already have the rest of the components packed at home (mobo, ram, cpu cooler).
  • Costs half than 7800x3D and moving to a 8000x3D (or 9000x3D) in 2 years (at the end of platform cycle, as with 5800x3D now) will be "cheaper". Basically, Id be using the 7600x as "provisional" cpu until the x3D tech in AM5 is way more mature.
  • Even if the AM5 x3D issues were 100% solved, I believe I'd enjoy a better gaming experience with 7600x/4090 than with 7800x3D/7900xtx. (7800x3D/4090 is beyond my budget). Gaming at ultra 1440p@240hz & 4k@144hz.
Reasons not to choose 7600x:
  • I'm not sure if I'll see relevant cpu bottlenecks when paired with a 4090. I'm hoping for insignificant ones for the next 2 years, until the end of AM5 life-cycle.
  • Is still AM5 platform and this is one of my reasons behind returning my original 7800x3D. It seems that the non-x3D cpus are less susceptible to the burn-up issues.
  • For the same price I could build with a 13600k.
  • I could spend 90/140€ more and go for 7700x/13700 instead, but then I'll be 550/600€ already over my original budget. And at this point... the 7900xtx becomes again the practical choice. I'm not even sure if these cpu upgrades are even worth it for my purposes.
  • At the time of replacing this cpu with the 8000x3D /9000x3D, its second hand resell value will probably be much worse than 5800x3D (or even intel).
TBH, I'm tired of this whole explosion&burn-up situation... Same with intel ethernet mobo chips, with GPU faulty connectors... Planning the last 2-3 builds in my life were smooth, fun and entertaining experiences. Now..., I feel exhausted, angry, robbed, concerned and with the feeling that manufacturers are not giving a big F about their customers. Otherwise they would have tested with more attention/care/(love?) their expensive "early access" hardware. Sorry for the rant... I just want to enjoy, as I've done for over 30 years, with my favorite hobby...
If you have any suggestions about the build, I'll be thankful to hear them. Ty
For 4K gaming the 7600x is more than enough cpu power. This video doesn't show 4k but even at 1440p the FPS output is quite close. At 4k really the become almost identical.

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R1rJU-EwVlE
 
  • Like
Reactions: SydB12
D

Deleted member 2838871

Guest
  • Is still AM5 platform and this is one of my reasons behind returning my original 7800x3D. It seems that the non-x3D cpus are less susceptible to the burn-up issues.

Your paranoia is showing. :ROFLMAO: :ROFLMAO:

Personally I think you should purchase the 7800x3D and go with it. With the recent resolutions your chances of experiencing the burn-up are virtually nil...

... and this advice is coming from someone who already experienced it.

If I was that worried about it I would have swapped out for Intel 13th gen when I had the chance. :ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO:
 
If you want to go with the 7600x go for it. You could probably even check into the non x chips since I don’t think they push the envelope quite as hard but you still get most of the performance.

Truthfully unless you are running a really high end box though you might be hard pressed to tell a difference. Example, I’ve got a ryzen 5 5500 in a PC now with a 6700xt and even at 1440p it’s fine until I get in a spending mood.

For example the 7600 non x can be found here for 227.


When you look though on the specs, the x model runs at 4.7ghz, max of 5.3ghz. The non x is 3.8ghz, max 5.1.

You might be hard pressed to tell the difference. If you were using the non x, and just gaming, it should turbo as needed, especially if you have good cooling. The 200mhz on the top end I would think would be a minuscule difference. But that would get you going. Then you can upgrade to zen 5 or 6. One review I saw said the 7600x is about 5% faster, but you figure the x would probably run hotter and 5% isn’t really a big deal imo.
 
Last edited:

Karadjgne

Titan
Ambassador
I'm not sure if I'll see relevant cpu bottlenecks when paired with a 4090. I'm hoping for insignificant ones for the next 2 years, until the end of AM5 life-cycle.
Barking up the wrong tree for the wrong reasons. The cpu is responsible for fps instruction output. The gpu is responsible for fps visual output. Those 2 different fps are Never identical. If the cpu puts out 500fps and the gpu can only render 200fps at 4k, that's a gpu bottleneck, even if the gpu is a 4090ti.

You'll run into games that are hyper crazy detailed, especially online games with high player drops, massive spell affects, bloom, shadows, lighting affects etc and that might reduce the cpu fps output to 100fps, but the gpu could handle upto 200fps. That's a cpu bottleneck, even if the cpu was a 13900k or 7800X3D.

So depending on the actual game played, your personal settings, resolution, just switching games will go from a gpu bottleneck to a cpu bottleneck or vice-versa. It's going to happen, even with the best, most expensive, fastest equipment.

Worrying about bottlenecks is pointless, there's always a bottleneck, somewhere, and it changes with every game as to amount and degree. The cpu will output whatever it outputs, the gpu will either deal with it or not.
 

SydB12

Prominent
Feb 10, 2023
23
5
515
Barking up the wrong tree for the wrong reasons. The cpu is responsible for fps instruction output. The gpu is responsible for fps visual output. Those 2 different fps are Never identical. If the cpu puts out 500fps and the gpu can only render 200fps at 4k, that's a gpu bottleneck, even if the gpu is a 4090ti.

You'll run into games that are hyper crazy detailed, especially online games with high player drops, massive spell affects, bloom, shadows, lighting affects etc and that might reduce the cpu fps output to 100fps, but the gpu could handle upto 200fps. That's a cpu bottleneck, even if the cpu was a 13900k or 7800X3D.

So depending on the actual game played, your personal settings, resolution, just switching games will go from a gpu bottleneck to a cpu bottleneck or vice-versa. It's going to happen, even with the best, most expensive, fastest equipment.

Worrying about bottlenecks is pointless, there's always a bottleneck, somewhere, and it changes with every game as to amount and degree. The cpu will output whatever it outputs, the gpu will either deal with it or not.
Thank you for your insight. So, 7900xtx or 4090? And which cpu between 13600(-/k), 7600(-/x), 7800x3D or 5800x3D would you pair with your desired GPU?

Among those options, and consirering I could only pair the 7800x3D with the 7900xtx, I want the best combo to play to play all types of games for as long as possible (i.e., 4 to 5 years struggling the less as possible), at 1440p@240hz and 4k@144hz.
 
Last edited:
D

Deleted member 2838871

Guest
So, 7900xtx or 4090?

4090 is far superior if your wallet can handle it.

I want the best combo to play to play all types of games for as long as possible (i.e., 4 to 5 years struggling the less as possible), at 1440p@240hz and 4k@144hz.

4K 144hz? Good luck. Not even the 4090 will get there on recent AAA titles. I've tested it on my 120hz OLED. Games like Hogwarts and Last of Us on Ultra the 4090 was hitting 90-100 fps. I don't see how 144 is possible. Keep in mind I'm not using DLSS.

I don't see a difference between 60 and 120 though so I run at 60 which the 4090 can handle without much issue.
 
Thank you for your insight. So, 7900xtx or 4090? And which cpu between 13600(-/k), 7600(-/x), 7800x3D or 5800x3D would you pair with your desired GPU?

Among those options, and consirering I could only pair the 7800x3D with the 7900xtx, I want the best combo to play to play all types of games for as long as possible (i.e., 4 to 5 years struggling the less as possible), at 1440p@240hz and 4k@144hz.

For 4k the 7600x is all the money you need to spend as far as a cpu.