[SOLVED] 9700k vs 3700x, is lower perfomance worth it for future-proofing?

alexswede

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I've been saving up for a new gaming rig for a while now, and was waiting for the thrid gen ryzen chips to launch before making my decision. But after tons of benchmarks and other forum posts it seems that the 3700x isnt quite up to par with Intels 9700k in terms of gaming. Thinking about pure cost, the difference is only about 40$ where i live between a 3700x build (x570/x470 gaming F mobo, wraith prism cooler, trident z neo ram, rog strix 2080 super, based on msrp) and a 9700k build (z390 gaming F, trident z rgb, dark rock pro 4, rog strix 2080 super). My question is, for a purely gaming rig, is it worth making the leap to the x570 for PCIE 4.0 and newer m.2 compatibility, but having lesser performance compared to a 9700k?
 
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Bob Bobson

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I would say 3700X is worth it. Some time ago 9600K was enough, but than it started to cap at 100% and having some bad low 1% fps drops. 3600 is also 6 core but 12 thread and nothing like htat happens. I think same thing can happen with 9700K.

Also it is possible that because new consoles will (supposedly) have 8c/16 CPUs, games might be better optimized for multi thread.

Also x570 is not neccesary, B450 is enough for 3700X
 
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alexswede

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I would say 3700X is worth it. Some time ago 9600K was enough, but than it started to cap at 100% and having some bad low 1% fps drops. 3600 is also 6 core but 12 thread and nothing like htat happens. I think same thing can happen with 9700K.

Also it is possible that because new consoles will (supposedly) have 8c/16 CPUs, games might be better optimized for multi thread.

Also x570 is not neccesary, B450 is enough for 3700X
How long will b450 still be relevant do you think?
 

Bob Bobson

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How long will b450 still be relevant do you think?
What do you mean relevant. It can handle 3rd gen ryzens. And PCIe 4 gen is not something most people will need. If you mean the socket on the B450 for future CPUs. By the time you need new CPU, so couple of years from now, you will probably need a new mobo as well, with AM5 socket.
 

alexswede

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What do you mean relevant. It can handle 3rd gen ryzens. And PCIe 4 gen is not something most people will need. If you mean the socket on the B450 for future CPUs. By the time you need new CPU, so couple of years from now, you will probably need a new mobo as well, with AM5 socket.
Any mobo that works specifically well with the 3700x in terms of gaming? I also need something with flashback bios since i dont have an AMD chip lying around
 

Bob Bobson

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Any mobo that works specifically well with the 3700x in terms of gaming? I also need something with flashback bios since i dont have an AMD chip lying around
First, check if some of your closest techshops down offer bios update, every one of those in MY vicinity does so for 4-8 bucks. If not, MSI boards offer something called bios usb flashback. To update bios, you don´t need CPU, just an USB stick with correct BIOS. If all that is too much hassle for you, X570 motherboards are the way to go. For example this one https://www.amazon.com/GIGABYTE-X570-AORUS-PCIe4-0-Motherboard/dp/B07SVRZGMX .

Currently 9700K is BETTER in gaming then 3700X, but in my opinion, 3700X is the safer choice in to the future.
 
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"Easy" provided you cool it down something fierce - by the time you get your extra 15%, your cost has doubled.
His cooling solution listed in the initial post is sufficient for this. So, it does not double as you try in insinuate. It is actually $40 as he stated.
 

rigg42

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"Easy" provided you cool it down something fierce - by the time you get your extra 15%, your cost has doubled.
Yeah this the problem with this argument. It's not just the the CPU cost its the platform cost. Almost any b350/b450/x370/x470 motherboard will easily handle the 3700x in terms of power delivery and give you all the performance the CPU is reasonably capable of while using the included box cooler. You are stuck with z370/z390 and need to more carefully scrutinize the power delivery when overclocking an 8 core Intel CPU. Even if you make the x570 vs Z390 argument, while the boards might cost about the same, you are still saving another $100 on a cooler. Unless you win the silicon lottery you aren't getting to a stable 5ghz on a cooler less expensive than that with safe operating temps.

Pile on top of that you will need to purposefully become CPU bound by using a lower resolution or reducing quality settings to see any significant advantage and this whole argument starts to fall apart. If value doesn't matter to you and maximizing FPS at all cost is your goal then sure. If you are buying a $1200 2080 ti for a pure gaming build then buy a 9900k and everything else you need to overclock it and be happy. There is nothing wrong with that. If you care at all about the value of your CPU purchase the 3700x makes more sense than the 9700k. You could easily save $200 or more on the cost of the CPU, motherboard, and cooler.
 
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Yeah this the problem with this argument. It's not just the the CPU cost its the platform cost. Almost any b350/b450/x370/x470 motherboard will easily handle the 3700x in terms of power delivery and give you all the performance the CPU is reasonably capable of while using the included box cooler. You are stuck with z370/z390 and need to more carefully scrutinize the power delivery when overclocking an 8 core Intel CPU. Even if you make the x570 vs Z390 argument, while the boards might cost about the same, you are still saving another $100 on a cooler. Unless you win the silicon lottery you aren't getting to a stable 5ghz on a cooler less expensive than that with safe operating temps.

Pile on top of that you will need to purposefully become CPU bound by using a lower resolution or reducing quality settings to see any significant advantage and this whole argument starts to fall apart. If value doesn't matter to you and maximizing FPS at all cost is your goal then sure. If you are buying a $1200 2080 ti for a pure gaming build then buy a 9900k and everything else you need to overclock it and be happy. There is nothing wrong with that. If you care at all about the value of your CPU purchase the 3700x makes more sense than the 9700k. You could easily save $200 or more on the cost of the CPU, motherboard, and cooler.
OP already has 2 builds. The intel build is $40 more expensive. And honestly, you don't need the silicon lottery to hit 5ghz. 5.3 yea, 5, no.
 

rigg42

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OP already has 2 builds. The intel build is $40 more expensive. And honestly, you don't need the silicon lottery to hit 5ghz. 5.3 yea, 5, no.
Yeah and he's picked out an x570 board that costs $100 more than he needs to spend. The X570 TUFF is pretty much the exact same motherboard with different cosmetics. Not to mention the majority of b450 motherboards would run a 3700x just fine. I didn't say you need to win the lottery to do 5ghz. I said you need hit the lottery to do it with good temps. The chances of that CPU hitting 90 c with a 5ghz OC (on that cooler when heavily stressed) are very likely.
 
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I'm not here to sit and compare all sorts of ins and outs. OP had a pretty straight forward scenario put forward regarding two builds; for gaming. The Intel takes the cake, its already well established by all reviews out.
 

alexswede

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I'm not here to sit and compare all sorts of ins and outs. OP had a pretty straight forward scenario put forward regarding two builds; for gaming. The Intel takes the cake, its already well established by all reviews out.
So in terms of futureproofing and hyper threading on amd's side vs gaming perfomance right now, its still worth it to go intel?
 

rigg42

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I'm not here to sit and compare all sorts of ins and outs. OP had a pretty straight forward scenario put forward regarding two builds; for gaming. The Intel takes the cake, its already well established by all reviews out.
Did you consider the OP might be interested in comparing the ins and outs before dropping a pile of his money on a computer? This is a discussion forum. We're having a discussion. Intel takes the cake in CPU bound scenarios. If the OP is able to see the benefit of this than Intel might make some sense. This depends on the resolution and refresh rate of the monitor as well as the games and settings. Avg frame rate isn't the be all end all either. Consistent frame times can be just as important to end user experience. Coming up short on threads could be an Issue in this regard down the road.

The other part of his question was related to value. There is clearly more to the value argument then what the OP may have realized when he started this thread. His initial perception of the value proposition and what the value proposition actually is are 2 different things.
 

Bob Bobson

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So in terms of futureproofing and hyper threading on amd's side vs gaming perfomance right now, its still worth it to go intel?
No, go AMD, cheaper, better in futureproofing, hyperthreading and power consumption/TDP. Also if you game on 1440p or will game, the difference between the two will be even smaller.

Like I said, there was a time when i5 9600K was totally fine, a year down the road, it caps at 100% in some games resulting in BAD fps drops.

Nothing of that sorts happens on R5 3600 (6c/12t).
I would assume same thing can happen in the future between 9700K as 8c/8t and 3700x as 8c/16t
 
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alexswede

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Did you consider the OP might be interested in comparing the ins and outs before dropping a pile of his money on a computer? This is a discussion forum. We're having a discussion. Intel takes the cake in CPU bound scenarios. If the OP is able to see the benefit of this than Intel might make some sense. This depends on the resolution and refresh rate of the monitor as well as the games and settings. Avg frame rate isn't the be all end all either. Consistent frame times can be just as important to end user experience. Coming up short on threads could be an Issue in this regard down the road.

The other part of his question was related to value. There is clearly more to the value argument then what the OP may have realized when he started this thread. His initial perception of the value proposition and what the value proposition actually is are 2 different things.
using a 1440p 144hz monitor
 

alexswede

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No, go AMD, cheaper, better in futureproofing, hyperthreading and power consumption/TDP. Also if you game on 1440p or will game, the difference between the two will be even smaller.

Like I said, there was a time when i5 9600K was totally fine, a year down the road, it caps at 100% in some games resulting in BAD fps drops.

Nothing of that sorts happens on R5 3600 (6c/12t).
I would assume same thing can happen in the future between 9700K as 8c/8t and 3700x as 8c/16t
Using a 1440p 144hz monitor so amd defintely seems like the right choice in the current market. The wraith prism that comes with the 3700x seems to be good enough for gaming so i do save quite a bit on that end aswell. Thanks everyone for your answers!
 

alexswede

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You'll be looking at 0-15 more average FPS with a 2080 ti (depending on the game) if you use ultra settings. The lower you move down the GPU tier the less FPS advantage you will see.
gonna wait until i see 2080 super vs 2080 ti before deciding on the gpu, but yeah the fps difference doesnt really seem like it matters to much, aslong as it meets the requirements for using a 144hz at its max potential
 
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Bob Bobson

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gonna wait until i see 2080 super vs 2080 ti before deciding on the gpu, but yeah the fps difference doesnt really seem like it matters to much, aslong as it meets the requirements for using a 144hz at its max potential
Yup, i RMAed my GPU, so now im waiting for 2080 Super launch, hopefully i will snatch one before they sell out

Hoping for EVGA XC Ultra gaming
 
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Bob Bobson

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You'll be looking at 0-15 more average FPS with a 2080 ti (depending on the game) if you use ultra settings. The lower you move down the GPU tier the less FPS advantage you will see.
Well, higher the resolution, the more GPU bound the output is, the less the difference in FPS between the two GPUs will be. Also 2700X average FPS went up as it matured, i suspect same thing will happen with 3rd gen
 

alexswede

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Well, higher the resolution, the more GPU bound the output is, the less the difference in FPS between the two GPUs will be. Also 2700X average FPS went up as it matured, i suspect same thing will happen with 3rd gen
What is your view on x470 vs x570 for gaming? is it worth to get an x570 board for future proofing?
 

Bob Bobson

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What is your view on x470 vs x570 for gaming? is it worth to get an x570 board for future proofing?
X570 has only two advatages, stronger VRM and PCIe 4 gen. And unless you plan to buy the top GPU in 2-4 years who knows for extreme price (at which point rest of your system would be a bottleneck) then you don´t need either of those. Proper B450 with 6 phases is more than enough. PCIe 4 gen is only good for gen 4 NVMe drives, which offer little to none speed difference in pretty much all real world scenarios and are more expensive. B450 is just fine. Preferably some from MSI with bios flashback option.
 

alexswede

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X570 has only two advatages, stronger VRM and PCIe 4 gen. And unless you plan to buy the top GPU in 2-4 years who knows for extreme price (at which point rest of your system would be a bottleneck) then you don´t need either of those. Proper B450 with 6 phases is more than enough. PCIe 4 gen is only good for gen 4 NVMe drives, which offer little to none speed difference in pretty much all real world scenarios and are more expensive. B450 is just fine. Preferably some from MSI with bios flashback option.
Thanks for the quick answer! In the end i think im gonna go with the Rog strix X570 gaming-F since my local tech shop has a nice sale on it, and the B450 boards that im looking at are missing some key features i would like to have for my rig.
 

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