a couple of rules clarifications...

Toggle sidebar Toggle sidebar
G

Guest

Guest
Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.magic.rules (More info?)

# 1: my opponent plays a Dreams Grip (entwined) and announces his
intent to tap one of my creatures, and untap one of his creatures. can
i play a Shunt or a Deflection at this time to change the target, or
does it become impossible for me to do becasuse of the fact that the
Dreams Grip now has two targets?

#2: in my playgroup there is a need for clarification regarding damage
and how long damage stays relevent to a creature. for example... if a
creature is used as a blocker in combat (lets say it's a 0 / 4
creature) and it takes 3 points of damage during the combat damage
resolution. when does that damage go away? it is my understanding that
the damage stays on the creature for the remainder of the turn, however
other have the thought that it only stays on until the begining of the
next phase.

thank you in advance for clearing these up,

-Cannibal-
 
Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.magic.rules (More info?)

Cannibal wrote:

> does it become impossible for me to do becasuse of the fact that the
> Dreams Grip now has two targets?

Yep.

> it is my understanding that the damage stays on the creature for
> the remainder of the turn, however other have the thought that it
> only stays on until the begining of the next phase.

Damage remains until end of turn.

--
Gravity: it's not just a good idea, it's the law.
 
Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.magic.rules (More info?)

Cannibal wrote:

> # 1: my opponent plays a Dreams Grip (entwined) and announces his
> intent to tap one of my creatures, and untap one of his creatures. can
> i play a Shunt or a Deflection at this time to change the target, or
> does it become impossible for me to do becasuse of the fact that the
> Dreams Grip now has two targets?

Dream's Grip
{U}
Instant
Choose one -- Tap target permanent; or untap target permanent.
Entwine {1} (Choose both if you pay the entwine cost.)

Shunt
{1}{R}{R}
Instant
Change the target of target spell with a single target.

Deflection
{3}{U}
Instant
Change the target of target spell with a single target.

No, an entwined Dream's Grip has two targets and can't be Shunted or
Deflected. A non-entwined DG can be, though.
>
> #2: in my playgroup there is a need for clarification regarding damage
> and how long damage stays relevent to a creature.

Damage is removed from all creatures at the end of the turn. Until
then, it's relevent.

> for example... if a
> creature is used as a blocker in combat (lets say it's a 0 / 4
> creature) and it takes 3 points of damage during the combat damage
> resolution. when does that damage go away?

At the end of the turn.

> it is my understanding that
> the damage stays on the creature for the remainder of the turn, however
> other have the thought that it only stays on until the begining of the
> next phase.

You are correct and they are not.
>
> thank you in advance for clearing these up,
>
> -Cannibal-

--
Christopher Mattern

"Which one you figure tracked us?"
"The ugly one, sir."
"...Could you be more specific?"
 
Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.magic.rules (More info?)

Cannibal, worshipped by llamas the world over, wrote...
> # 1: my opponent plays a Dreams Grip (entwined) and announces his
> intent to tap one of my creatures, and untap one of his creatures. can
> i play a Shunt or a Deflection at this time to change the target, or
> does it become impossible for me to do becasuse of the fact that the
> Dreams Grip now has two targets?

Both of those spells specifically say they can only target a spell with
a single target. Since an Entwined Dream's Grip has two targets, it is
not a legal target, though it would be in either non-Entwined version.

Shunt
{1}{R}{R}
Instant
Change the target of target spell with a single target.

Dream's Grip
{U}
Instant
Choose one -- Tap target permanent; or untap target permanent.
Entwine {1} (Choose both if you pay the entwine cost.)


> #2: in my playgroup there is a need for clarification regarding damage
> and how long damage stays relevent to a creature. for example... if a
> creature is used as a blocker in combat (lets say it's a 0 / 4
> creature) and it takes 3 points of damage during the combat damage
> resolution. when does that damage go away? it is my understanding that
> the damage stays on the creature for the remainder of the turn, however
> other have the thought that it only stays on until the begining of the
> next phase.

It stays until the end of the turn, specifically the Cleanup step.
 
Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.magic.rules (More info?)

On Mon, 12 Apr 2004 00:19:46 -0400, Cannibal <cannibal@cox.net> wrote:
># 1: my opponent plays a Dreams Grip (entwined) and announces his
>intent to tap one of my creatures, and untap one of his creatures. can
>i play a Shunt or a Deflection at this time to change the target, or
>does it become impossible for me to do becasuse of the fact that the
>Dreams Grip now has two targets?

Dream's Grip U Instant
Choose one -- Tap target permanent; or untap target permanent. / Entwine 1 (*)

Entwined this has two targets, correct, so isn't a legal target for anything
whose target specification is "target spell with a single target", correct.
Deflection or Shunt can't target an Entwined Dream's Grip.

>#2: in my playgroup there is a need for clarification regarding damage
>and how long damage stays relevent to a creature.

Damage is removed from all permanents in Cleanup step each turn. (It stays
on players forever, but that's not really relevant.)

>for example... if a
>creature is used as a blocker in combat (lets say it's a 0 / 4
>creature) and it takes 3 points of damage during the combat damage
>resolution. when does that damage go away?

During Cleanup step. Exactly the same time that "until end of turn"
effects wear off, in fact; if this was actually a 0/1 blocker with +0/+3
until end of turn, from a Gift of the Woods on it, the +0/+3 wears off at the
same time the 3 damage is removed, so it goes directly from being a 0/4 with
three damage on it to being an undamaged 0/1.

>it is my understanding that
>the damage stays on the creature for the remainder of the turn, however
>other have the thought that it only stays on until the begining of the
>next phase.

You're much closer than they are. It stays on the creature until cleanup
step, unless something regenerates the creature (using a regen shield
taps the creature, removes it from combat, and removes all damage from it)
before that time.

Dave
--
\/David DeLaney posting from dbd@vic.com "It's not the pot that grows the flower
It's not the clock that slows the hour The definition's plain for anyone to see
Love is all it takes to make a family" - R&P. VISUALIZE HAPPYNET VRbeable<BLINK>
http://www.vic.com/~dbd/ - net.legends FAQ & Magic / I WUV you in all CAPS! --K.
 
Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.magic.rules (More info?)

"Risser Family" <news@nospam.com> writes:
> Won't a Duskworker get removed from combat the moment it's blocked,
> since regeneration removes it from combat?

,----[ Oracle ]
| Duskworker
| {4}
| Artifact Creature
| 2/2
| Whenever Duskworker becomes blocked, regenerate it.
| {3}: Duskworker gets +1/+0 until end of turn.
`----

No. Saying "Regenerate X" (somewhat unintuitively, especially for
those used to older rules) just sets up a shield that will replace its
next destruction.

,----[ Magic Comprehensive Rules ]
| 419.6b Regeneration is a destruction-replacement effect. The word
| "instead" doesn't appear on the card but is implicit in the
| definition of regeneration. "Regenerate [permanent]" means "The next
| time [permanent] would be destroyed this turn, instead remove all
| damage from it, tap it, and (if it's in combat) remove it from
| combat." Abilities that trigger from damage being dealt still
| trigger even if the permanent regenerates.
`----

So, when it gets blocked, and its triggered ability resolves, a shield
gets set up that will stop the next time it would be destroyed
(replacing the destruction with removing damage from it, tapping it,
and removing it from combat). If it wouldn't get destroyed this turn,
the shield won't do anything in particular and goes away during
Cleanup step.

Hopefully this clears things up. Your last question was about
prevention/replacement effects as well, so you may want to take a look
at section 419 in the Comprehensive Rules (available at
http://www.wizards.com/magic/comprules) for the full gory details on
how they work.

--
Peter C.
A chicken is an egg's way of producing more eggs
 
Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.magic.rules (More info?)

Hey, this reminded me of another question.
Won't a Duskworker get removed from combat the moment it's blocked, since
regeneration removes it from combat?

***
Duskworker
Artifact Creature {4}
Whenever Duskworker becomes blocked, regenerate it.
{3}: Duskworker gets +1/+0 until end of turn.
2/2
***


"David DeLaney" <dbd@gatekeeper.vic.com> wrote in message
news:slrnc7lro0.s3n.dbd@gatekeeper.vic.com...
> On Mon, 12 Apr 2004 00:19:46 -0400, Cannibal <cannibal@cox.net> wrote:
> ># 1: my opponent plays a Dreams Grip (entwined) and announces his
> >intent to tap one of my creatures, and untap one of his creatures. can
> >i play a Shunt or a Deflection at this time to change the target, or
> >does it become impossible for me to do becasuse of the fact that the
> >Dreams Grip now has two targets?
>
> Dream's Grip U Instant
> Choose one -- Tap target permanent; or untap target permanent. / Entwine
1 (*)
>
> Entwined this has two targets, correct, so isn't a legal target for
anything
> whose target specification is "target spell with a single target",
correct.
> Deflection or Shunt can't target an Entwined Dream's Grip.
>
> >#2: in my playgroup there is a need for clarification regarding damage
> >and how long damage stays relevent to a creature.
>
> Damage is removed from all permanents in Cleanup step each turn. (It stays
> on players forever, but that's not really relevant.)
>
> >for example... if a
> >creature is used as a blocker in combat (lets say it's a 0 / 4
> >creature) and it takes 3 points of damage during the combat damage
> >resolution. when does that damage go away?
>
> During Cleanup step. Exactly the same time that "until end of turn"
> effects wear off, in fact; if this was actually a 0/1 blocker with +0/+3
> until end of turn, from a Gift of the Woods on it, the +0/+3 wears off at
the
> same time the 3 damage is removed, so it goes directly from being a 0/4
with
> three damage on it to being an undamaged 0/1.
>
> >it is my understanding that
> >the damage stays on the creature for the remainder of the turn, however
> >other have the thought that it only stays on until the begining of the
> >next phase.
>
> You're much closer than they are. It stays on the creature until cleanup
> step, unless something regenerates the creature (using a regen shield
> taps the creature, removes it from combat, and removes all damage from it)
> before that time.
>
> Dave
> --
> \/David DeLaney posting from dbd@vic.com "It's not the pot that grows the
flower
> It's not the clock that slows the hour The definition's plain for anyone
to see
> Love is all it takes to make a family" - R&P. VISUALIZE HAPPYNET
VRbeable<BLINK>
> http://www.vic.com/~dbd/ - net.legends FAQ & Magic / I WUV you in all
CAPS! --K.
 
Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.magic.rules (More info?)

Risser Family <news@nospam.com> wrote:

> Hey, this reminded me of another question.
> Won't a Duskworker get removed from combat the moment it's blocked, since
> regeneration removes it from combat?

No.

419.6b Regeneration is a destruction-replacement effect. The word
"instead" doesn't appear on the card but is implicit in the definition
of regeneration. "Regenerate [permanent]" means "The NEXT time
[permanent] would be destroyed this turn, instead remove all damage from
it, tap it, and (if it's in combat) remove it from combat." Abilities
that trigger from damage being dealt still trigger even if the permanent
regenerates. [emphasis on NEXT added by me]
--
Daniel W. Johnson
panoptes@iquest.net
http://members.iquest.net/~panoptes/
039 53 36 N / 086 11 55 W
 
Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.magic.rules (More info?)

On Mon, 12 Apr 2004 23:28:23 GMT, Risser Family <news@nospam.com> wrote:
>Hey, this reminded me of another question.
>Won't a Duskworker get removed from combat the moment it's blocked, since
>regeneration removes it from combat?

No.

Why?

Because "regenerate this" doesn't do ANYTHING to "this" other than set up
the replacement effect, the 'regeneration shield'.

_Using_ that shield - having something try to destroy 'this' and having the
shield get used up replacing that - taps 'this', removes it from combat and
removes all damage from it.

_Making_ the shield in the first place doesn't do any of that.

[And even if it did this wouldn't happen "the moment it's blocked", as the
ability of Duskworker is triggered and goes on the stack after blockers are
declared and waits to resolve, like all else that uses the stack. The shield
_does_ get made before combat damage ever gets to go on the stack at all -
but just making the shield doesn't yank the Duskworker out of combat.]

Dave
--
\/David DeLaney posting from dbd@vic.com "It's not the pot that grows the flower
It's not the clock that slows the hour The definition's plain for anyone to see
Love is all it takes to make a family" - R&P. VISUALIZE HAPPYNET VRbeable<BLINK>
http://www.vic.com/~dbd/ - net.legends FAQ & Magic / I WUV you in all CAPS! --K.
 
Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.magic.rules (More info?)

Chris Mattern sez:

<<
>Cannibal wrote:
>
>> # 1: my opponent plays a Dreams Grip (entwined) and announces his
>> intent to tap one of my creatures, and untap one of his creatures. can
>> i play a Shunt or a Deflection at this time to change the target, or
>> does it become impossible for me to do becasuse of the fact that the
>> Dreams Grip now has two targets?
>
>Dream's Grip
>{U}
>Instant
>Choose one -- Tap target permanent; or untap target permanent.
>Entwine {1} (Choose both if you pay the entwine cost.)
>
>Shunt
>{1}{R}{R}
>Instant
>Change the target of target spell with a single target.
>
>Deflection
>{3}{U}
>Instant
>Change the target of target spell with a single target.
>
>No, an entwined Dream's Grip has two targets and can't be Shunted or
>Deflected. A non-entwined DG can be, though.
>
>>

I wonder...will we ever get a multiple-target Deflection? I know it'd both
have to be worded carefully and have reminder text that a spell can't target
the same thing twice, but it's possible...


----
"Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar."
--Sigmund Freud
"Sometimes a cake is just a cake."
--Deanna Troi, Star Trek: TNG: "Phantasms"
 
Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.magic.rules (More info?)

djaxmann@aol.computer (Andy Jakcsy) writes:
> I wonder...will we ever get a multiple-target Deflection? I know
> it'd both have to be worded carefully and have reminder text that a
> spell can't target the same thing twice, but it's possible...

Well, we already have Fork, Mirari, and Mischievous Quanar, which copy
a spell and let you change all its targets. And Psychic Battle lets a
random player change all the targets.

--
Peter C.
Red meat is not bad for you. Fuzzy green meat is bad for you.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

TRENDING THREADS

Latest posts

Share this page

COMPANY
RESOURCES
FOLLOW
Top Bottom