Question A few questions about upgrading CPU.

[Infratical]

To start off, this is my current PC build that I've had since 2016: https://pcpartpicker.com/list/Tt6dKB

Since the Ryzen 3000 series are releasing soon, I wanted to go ahead and upgrade my CPU to the 3700 or 3700x. I realize that I need to change my motherboard to a Ryzen compatible board, but besides that, would anything else cause me any issues during this upgrade?

 

[Obakasama]

I would say the main one would be reinstalling Windows to be on the safe side.

 

[PC Tailor]

Installing Windows 7 on a Ryzen setup will be difficult as it is as technically Microsoft doesn't support W7 on newer systems. Usually it is just a case of getting the appropriate USB drivers or having to use a PS/2 peripheral (but it won't have a PS/2 port) - and I'm not sure how this will apply with the 3000 series.

Also I believe windows updates blocks updates to systems running anything other than W10, and can only by bypassed with an unofficial patch.

 

[Infratical]

Yeah that's 100% fine with me. I planned on completely formatting my harddrive and installing the latest version of windows 10.

 

[PC Tailor]

Is the RAM you have a 2x8GB from one RAM pack or 2 seperate RAM modules that are the same model but from a different pack?

Yeah that's 100% fine with me. I planned on completely formatting my harddrive and installing the latest version of windows 10.

Understood, just saw W7 so thought I'd mention!

 

[Infratical]

I actually have 4, 4GB RAM total. It's that same exact brand/model though.

 

[Obakasama]

The usual advice is not to mix and match RAM (even if same brand, model and type), as there's a possibility of errors. So keep that in mind in cases there are odd issues which crop up.

 

[PC Tailor]

I actually have 4, 4GB RAM total. It's that same exact brand/model though.

If it is RAM from different packs - whilst it is working now, it could run in to the common error of compatibility problems on a new platform. As above states, best practice should always be new RAM modules from the same pack, as RAM is only guaranteed in the form sold (being the same make/model/timings is irrelevant unfortunately).

So I've read this assuming you mean these modules have come from different packs entirely.

The fact that they all work normally together now is a good sign, but just be open to the risk that on a new platform entirely, they might not work so nicely. There is no real way to tell at this point until it's tried, and again, should hopefully be fine, but it's a bet.

 

[Infratical]

It's the same RAM. All four of them are the exact same.

 

[Karadjgne]

Doesn't matter. That's just a paint job. Ram sticks are made up of IC chips. Those chips are made of silicon. There's only so many chips that can be made from any particular silicon sheet, this is called a batch. Each sheet of silicon has slightly different properties due to slightly different impurities, silicon can only get so pure. Some batches have slightly more iron or aluminium or copper or zinc etc than others. So each batch is different from the next. Whomever makes that ram, collects each batch, sticks it on the pcb, puts a heatsink and label on it, according to kit size, tests 2 or 4 or 8 sticks for compatability, boxes them and sends them to whomever ordered them. Mass production.

You could buy 4 sticks seperately, from the same shelf, at the same store, at the same time and have all 4 sticks be the exact same on the outside, but totally different on the inside. You see the 5 primary timings, the 14-15-15-36 2T numbers. What you don't see is the 40+ other numbers in the secondary and tertiary timings. These numbers are affected, sometimes greatly, by the impurities in the silicon.

2/4/8 stick blister packs are factory tested for compliance and compatability. Owning 4x sticks not from 1 pack means that you now become the tester, they were never factory tested to work together. Sometimes they work perfectly, sometimes they may need slight speed or timing or voltage adjustments to work right, sometimes they do not work at all. Identical sticks are just a paint job. Absolutely no guarantees to any ability to work together.

And different motherboards have different cpus and different memory controllers at different speeds and different voltages, so when 4 individual sticks might work on one motherboard just fine, may not even work right on a seriously different difference like Intel to Ryzen switch.

 

[Infratical]

Ok, so having to buy new RAM is a potential possibility. Would inserting my current RAM into the new motherboard damage anything while testing to see if it works?

 

[Karadjgne]

Nope. No different than you sticking your foot in a shoe to see how it fits. You'd have to something seriously nuts to break a toe.

Ddr4 is ddr4. Physically it's all the same. The differences are all internal, under the heatsinks and inside the IC chips. Because there is absolutely no guarantee that non-kit, individual sticks will work, the opposite is also true. There's also no guarantee that they won't work just fine. Even a possibility that they OC better on the new board.

The only guarantee is from a factory kit. They'll take 2 or 4 or 8 sticks from the thousands produced daily, and test them until they find a working set. The ones that don't work after so many tests, they sell as individual sticks. So to guarantee a working set, it's recommended a new purchase buy all the ram in 1 kit, so 2x8Gb or 4x4Gb in 1 package. Since you still have viable ram, and aren't purchasing more for size update, go ahead and test it out, not gonna hurt at all. If it works, great! If it doesn't, try tweaking the dram voltage up 0.05v, or bumping System Agent (has multiple names, you'd have to look it up for your bios) up very slightly (1.7 to 1.75 etc) or maybe dropping timings by 1-1-1-4 or so. If it still doesn't work, there's an in compatability somewhere and you'll need to replace the ram.

 

[Infratical]

Ok thanks a lot for the information!

One last thing, would you consider a GPU upgrade to maybe a GTX 1070, or the CPU upgrade discussed before to be more of an improvement that is worth the money.

 

[Karadjgne]

Not a 1070. Nvidia has all but stopped production of that gpu entirely, it's replacement is the 1660ti which gets better results in 1080p, similar in 1440p and slightly worse in 4k. Since neither of those cards is really 4k viable, that's a moot point. The 1660ti is just over half the price of the 1070.

The current 600w builder is plenty for a 1660ti, which only requires a 450w psu. The 1070 is better off with at least a decent 550w, of which that builder 600 isn't.

 

[Infratical]

So would the GPU upgrade to the 1660ti be more wise for my current build, or the CPU?

 

[Karadjgne]

Neither. Both. The Rx 390 does very well at 1080p. The i5-6500 is decent.

Question is, what's lacking? If you are trying to get 144fps on 1080p monitor in more modern games, the cpu is lacking. If wanting to go 1440p ultra, but have a 60Hz monitor, then the gpu is lacking. If wanting 144fps and 1440p, then both are lacking. If 4k, the cpu is enough for 60fps mostly, but the gpu is seriously lacking. Are all your games 8 thread optimized and you are getting tanked by a quad thread cpu?

Figure out what your goal is, and that'll tell you what could use replacing. It's not like either is particularly bad both are decent and it's not an obvious mismatch like a 9700k and 750ti or a 6400 and 2080ti

 

[InvalidError]

Nvidia still hasn't figured out where it wants to go with its "Super" refresh, so I'd at least wait a couple of weeks to see what it is going to be about and the effects on the remainder of the market. If Nvidia decides that it needs to fix its lacklustre RTX shipment numbers, there may be some decent price cuts in the not-too-distant future.

 

[Infratical]

Neither. Both. The Rx 390 does very well at 1080p. The i5-6500 is decent.

Question is, what's lacking? If you are trying to get 144fps on 1080p monitor in more modern games, the cpu is lacking. If wanting to go 1440p ultra, but have a 60Hz monitor, then the gpu is lacking. If wanting 144fps and 1440p, then both are lacking. If 4k, the cpu is enough for 60fps mostly, but the gpu is seriously lacking. Are all your games 8 thread optimized and you are getting tanked by a quad thread cpu?

Figure out what your goal is, and that'll tell you what could use replacing. It's not like either is particularly bad both are decent and it's not an obvious mismatch like a 9700k and 750ti or a 6400 and 2080ti

My goal would be 1080p, which is more than enough for me, at 144fps with modern games. So CPU it is then.

 

[Karadjgne]

Ok. So you settled on cpu. How far are you going? A move from 6thgen i5 to 6th or 7thgen i7 is more of a side grade than a worthwhile upgrade. So that really means a move from your i5 to something like either a 9700k or Ryzen 3600/3700 to be worth investing in.

Which means new mobo, definitely better cooling, definitely faster ram, not just the cpu.

 

[Infratical]

Ok. So you settled on cpu. How far are you going? A move from 6thgen i5 to 6th or 7thgen i7 is more of a side grade than a worthwhile upgrade. So that really means a move from your i5 to something like either a 9700k or Ryzen 3600/3700 to be worth investing in.

Which means new mobo, definitely better cooling, definitely faster ram, not just the cpu.

Yeah the Ryzen 3700x is where I was headed originally. Didn’t know the RAM would be necessary, but that’s fine too.

 

[Karadjgne]

Ryzen loves fast ram, loves it. The Ryzen version of Hyperthreading is called Infinity Fabric. Ryzens use the IF to communicate between the cores. The speeds of the IF are based on the speeds of the ram. You can literally get a 20% performance boost just by moving from 2133MHz to 3200MHz ram.

No info yet as to where Zen2 will go with ram, but 1000 series was 2133 base, 2000 series is 2666MHz base, so more than likely the 3000 series will be 3200MHz base with performance boosts higher by using 3466 or 3600MHz ram. The 2400MHz you have is ok for kabylake, but will drag your performance way down on Zen2.

 

[InvalidError]

The Ryzen version of Hyperthreading is called Infinity Fabric.

No, the Ryzen 'version' of hyperthreading is simply SMT which is the generic industry term for multiple threads per core. IF is the bus that AMD uses between CCX, chiplets and sockets to stitch everything together and has absolutely nothing to do with multi-threading.

 

[Infratical]

Well I’ll look into RAM as well then. Thanks a lot for the information.