Question A system to run 4-6 virtual machine at ones with a game being run in it and being stream out all happening at the same time.

Mar 8, 2019
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I'm looking to take a server like this one: https://www.ebay.com/itm/372598593925?ul_noapp=true

and turn it into a desktop but still can use the resource and it as a server managing multiple virtual machine through the os.

Things i like to be inform on:

Every video I see it seem like it take a min for a server to boot than a desktop,, it seem slower. So I'm worrying about the speed of the application running on the virtual machine.

I research putting a os on a server but they only show the iDRACC way and they never show the os environment just some console showing it been install.

The only thing stopping me from buying that item in the link is the lack of material of running a simple window, unbuntu, or any os on a server.
 
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COLGeek

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Adding a line like "All replies not welcome here!" is not the way to start a conversation or ask others for help/advice.

So, you want to run a server and VMs for desktop OSes. Is that correct?

Yes, booting up a server can take a bit of time as there are more services initialized when a server starts than with a typical desktop PC.

What OS do you intend to use as your primary server OS?
 

13thmonkey

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Bear in mind that this is a processor from 2011, so before i3/5/7-2xxxx, it's on a big node, and it's got quite a slow core speed.

In day to day use, i'd expect the speed to be perfectly fine, but It's going to get hot, and very noisy, the low profile cooler will need very high fan speeds to keep the temps down.
 
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Adding a line like "All replies not welcome here!" is not the way to start a conversation or ask others for help/advice.

So, you want to run a server and VMs for desktop OSes. Is that correct?

Yes, booting up a server can take a bit of time as there are more services initialized when a server starts than with a typical desktop PC.

What OS do you intend to use as your primary server OS?
Man.. what os??? Server machine don't seem to be as capable and flexible as a simple laptop that one can put any os on as long as it compatible. Either window or unbuntu.

Bear in mind that this is a processor from 2011, so before i3/5/7-2xxxx, it's on a big node, and it's got quite a slow core speed.

In day to day use, i'd expect the speed to be perfectly fine, but It's going to get hot, and very noisy, the low profile cooler will need very high fan speeds to keep the temps down.
will do you have a machine in mind??? And any info of the topic?
 

13thmonkey

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Any server will run loud. That's why they are kept in a server room. They run loud because they are made to be dense, with small heat sinks etc. so you can fit many in a rack.

It's a pre modern core i set of cores, so clock for clock maybe 60% of a current core, so that 2.4Ghz, is probably about 1.6Ghz in a modern processor, so flat out each core is running at modern idle speeds.
 
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Everyone say hyper-v have better performance than other vmware. I'm just running a few virtual machine that can run as smooth like a intel i3 2.50ghz 8gb ram on a 64bit machine laptop that run window 10 or unbuntu os doing things that teypical users do on them like video recording, internet surfing, maybe a game or two or what ever game comes in the os themselves. Need a good number of cores like 12 or over and good amount of ram like 128gb. I'll say since in theory each core operate as a computer processor so have about 12 or more with hyper threading enable and 128gb of ram should do it. I like a server machine for security with raid3-6 and data back up concern. so no stress on losing any data. I like the system to have hot swap and at least 6 to 8 drive bay. I never handle server machine before but it seem to fit the requirement I'm looking for beside the worry about graphic.

but seeing how it can be difficult finding much resource on how to handle them. I might just get a tower server or a couple of old desktop computers and connect them all together so os management will be dundment but doable.
 
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Any server will run loud. That's why they are kept in a server room. They run loud because they are made to be dense, with small heat sinks etc. so you can fit many in a rack.

It's a pre modern core i set of cores, so clock for clock maybe 60% of a current core, so that 2.4Ghz, is probably about 1.6Ghz in a modern processor, so flat out each core is running at modern idle speeds.
i just need a system that going to run vms. I'm just running a few virtual machine that can run as smooth like a intel i3 2.50ghz 8gb ram on a 64bit machine laptop that run window 10 or unbuntu os
 

13thmonkey

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and that processor is the same as an i3 at 1.6Ghz, admittedly an i3 with many many cores, but single thread perf is still important. That's what it will be like, whether that is enough for you is a different question.
 

kanewolf

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I'm looking to take a server like this one: https://www.ebay.com/itm/372598593925?ul_noapp=true

and turn it into a desktop but still can use the resource and it as a server managing multiple virtual machine through the os.

Things i like to be inform on:

Every video I see it seem like it take a min for a server to boot than a desktop,, it seem slower. So I'm worrying about the speed of the application running on the virtual machine.

I research putting a os on a server but they only show the iDRACC way and they never show the os environment just some console showing it been install.

The only thing stopping me from buying that item in the link is the lack of material of running a simple window, unbuntu, or any os on a server.

Don't reply if you can't provide some link, picture, and good material shading light on this topic. I don't want no opinion base answer or you just telling me what you doing all your own system which aid no help to my current problem.
RAM testing on servers IS slower than testing on desktops. Hardware testing for four CPU sockets is more extensive than a single socket desktop. Servers are not expected to be powered off. So the boot time doesn't really matter. The stability of the hardware is what is important.
A four socket motherboard requires either Windows Server, Linux or Windows 10 Workstation.
2U servers are LOUD. They do not work well in home environments. Garage or basement, maybe. Bedroom, not good.
Installing an OS on a server can be tricky. You need a driver for that RAID controller as part of the install image, or you need to be able to install the driver as part of the OS install.

What do you expect to do with your Virtual hosts? VMs do need lots of RAM, but don't need as much CPU resources, typically.
 
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RAM testing on servers IS slower than testing on desktops. Hardware testing for four CPU sockets is more extensive than a single socket desktop. Servers are not expected to be powered off. So the boot time doesn't really matter. The stability of the hardware is what is important.
A four socket motherboard requires either Windows Server, Linux or Windows 10 Workstation.
2U servers are LOUD. They do not work well in home environments. Garage or basement, maybe. Bedroom, not good.
Installing an OS on a server can be tricky. You need a driver for that RAID controller as part of the install image, or you need to be able to install the driver as part of the OS install.

What do you expect to do with your Virtual hosts? VMs do need lots of RAM, but don't need as much CPU resources, typically.
Having 12 virtual machine setup to receive video stream to record and stream out to a website to be viewed by others that can communicate with each other through a chat room that is control by a server machine... I repeated it so many times I can put it in one line of sentence now lol. or have a machine that is a super computer and a server in one with swap out hot drive and raid3-6 support.





from my research an i7 with 4 core or more with hyper threading plus 36gb of ram can run to my ideal up to 4-6 with good performance, all of this runing as many Ubuntu/CentOS/Debian versions/instances under HyperV. I like a system that comes with hot swap drives and raid2-6 for data lose concern to my who system not just my database but my whole system itself to backup(is that possible?). This is why I also ask for a server machine to connect to it too unless the system is a power computer and a server machine with hot swap and raid6 for data concern lose. The hard drive should be a ssd 1Tb of space and with the ability expand for more space by adding up to 6 additional drive of each being any size of gb up to 1tb each, giving me 7tb of space... and compact that can fit in a closet.

On another note how about something like this:

HP Z620 Workstation, 2x Intel Xeon E5-2670 2.6GHz Eight Core CPU's, 96GB memory, 256GB SSD, 1TB Hard Drive, NVIDIA Quadro 600, Windows 7 Professional Installed (Certified Refurbished)

https://www.amazon.com/Workstation-Professional-Installed-Certified-Refurbished/dp/B07CWXXGTT/ref=sr_1_2?qid=1552502821&refinements=p_n_feature_five_browse-bin%3A13580787011&s=pc&sr=1-2


.


and a




HP Z820 Workstation Intel Xeon 16 Core 2.6GHz 128GB RAM 500GB Solid State Drive + 2TB Hard Drive Dual NVIDIA Quadro FX 3800 Graphics CD/DVDRW Windows 10 Pro 64-bit (Certified Refurbished)

https://www.amazon.com/Workstation-Graphics-Windows-Certified-Refurbished/dp/B07CWWYS6Q/ref=sr_1_3?qid=1552502821&refinements=p_n_feature_five_browse-bin%3A13580787011&s=pc&sr=1-3




What I been trying to do I felt I needed the power of a server machine but just say <<edited>> the server for now and get it when I can just play with it but instead focus on a desktop tower power horse. At first all search result for 12 core and 128ram kept showing 6-8 and 8-64rams so I though I just go down half. But if I get something like the one above and a couple of cheap laptop size screen or a big screen to stake all the window next to reach other... since this is a workstation I'm guessing it design to be on 24 hours and with the ram a ssd and 2tb hard drive with a graphics card and running window 10 pro on a 64bit... it seem like this is what i need since I can work in a desktop environment with the power of a server. but again I'm asking your opinion on this or anyone else who don't mind.
 
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Mar 8, 2019
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Any server will run loud. That's why they are kept in a server room. They run loud because they are made to be dense, with small heat sinks etc. so you can fit many in a rack.

It's a pre modern core i set of cores, so clock for clock maybe 60% of a current core, so that 2.4Ghz, is probably about 1.6Ghz in a modern processor, so flat out each core is running at modern idle speeds.
Hey you had me thinking and I wanted to ask how you know it drop the clock speed? Do clock speed drop over time on computers? or was you comparing to core in today world and that compare to core in today world those cores will rate up to having a 1.6ghz or just by comparing them they are 1.6ghz slower than there counterpart?

How about something like this:

HP Z620 Workstation, 2x Intel Xeon E5-2670 2.6GHz Eight Core CPU's, 96GB memory, 256GB SSD, 1TB Hard Drive, NVIDIA Quadro 600, Windows 7 Professional Installed (Certified Refurbished)

https://www.amazon.com/Workstation-Professional-Installed-Certified-Refurbished/dp/B07CWXXGTT/ref=sr_1_2?qid=1552502821&amp;refinements=p_n_feature_five_browse-bin%3A13580787011&amp;s=pc&amp;sr=1-2

and a

HP Z820 Workstation Intel Xeon 16 Core 2.6GHz 128GB RAM 500GB Solid State Drive + 2TB Hard Drive Dual NVIDIA Quadro FX 3800 Graphics CD/DVDRW Windows 10 Pro 64-bit (Certified Refurbished)

https://www.amazon.com/Workstation-Graphics-Windows-Certified-Refurbished/dp/B07CWWYS6Q/ref=sr_1_3?qid=1552502821&amp;refinements=p_n_feature_five_browse-bin%3A13580787011&amp;s=pc&amp;sr=1-3
 

USAFRet

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This for your video capture and streaming enterprise?
 
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COLGeek

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Man.. what os??? Server machine don't seem to be as capable and flexible as a simple laptop that one can put any os on as long as it compatible. Either window or unbuntu.



will do you have a machine in mind??? And any info of the topic?
Servers are not laptops, nor desktops. They are intended to be workhorses, chugging along 24/7 performing their tasks. This questions you are asking would imply you might be better served by starting small, gaining some experience, and then expanding.

What is your "server" budget? How many users will you have accessing the system at any given time? What speed of service will your ISP provide? How much storage do you need for files/videos/captures? Is this a hobby sort of thing or a money making thing? There are many more such questions....

Any of the hardware solutions you asked about above can meet some level of performance. Really a matter of your budget and your needs.

Regarding OS choice, go Linux (something like Ubuntu Server) and save some money and increase your skills. Just a recommendation.
 

USAFRet

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Beyond "12 VM's!", you've never identified what software you'll be using for this capture and streaming.

Given that a common $250 home surveillance system can capture and display video streams from 4 or 8 IP cameras at once, with one OS and to a single drive...I am absolutely not convinced that all these VM's are needed.
 
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Beyond "12 VM's!", you've never identified what software you'll be using for this capture and streaming.

Given that a common $250 home surveillance system can capture and display video streams from 4 or 8 IP cameras at once, with one OS and to a single drive...I am absolutely not convinced that all these VM's are needed.
look at this computer for me and tell me you think it good enough and can the site be trusted to buy from and return it if it fail to meet my expectation.

https://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?item=9SIAC0F8UP4871

A few in mind is simplescreenrecorder, ods studio, Camtasia Studio a few others but maybe out of the top consideration. if one fail the meet expectation we'll try another one but they all should do very well... let just say camtasia or ods studio we using.. let do that one just so we can have one to settle on but honest they all should do the job and the other not mention which would work very well too! so it could end up being simplescreenrecorder to match the os if we do linux... or all of them since multiple virtual machine will be running, but let do obs studio since it can work in both window and linux with a little work environment. So with this software it'll be use to receive the stream record it and... or I was consider doing it with server logic just to write it out and have it flowing in the code and not through a third party, that way I can have even more control and security... let just stick with obs as a common media which doesn't imply obstacle as it would be doing it custom and having to explain how I'm doing everything just so you can get an ideal of how much workload is being put on everything so.. with that software i'll be receiving a stream recording it and while I'm recording it the server could be streaming it out or I could probable configure obs to stream it out but than i would have to... so yeah that it... I like to do this a couple times from 6-12 if possible or just start out small and do 3-6 that way i don't have to spend so much money up front.. I could even find a brand new system.. 3-6 would require from what you guess had taught me 6-8 cores nad about 48 ram or a little more to have for the main system so 64 which is still cheap!!! So!! Please answer all above questions plus if you can provide me with a brand new machine that have 8cores 64rams ssd 250gb(how much storage do you think i would need for the system it self cause i wanted to see about looking into getting a nas! so that if it possible to just back up my whole system and to use the nas as storeage for the video so it'll hold to important data the recording and the whole system it self in cause of hardware failer and we can just switch to a new machine and kick right back off after installing everything from the nas). and i know i could get a 500gb hdd for the same price or cheaper but i want that speed! hell if you can find a 500gb or higher and everything else included for under $1000 brand new I'll buy it!!! if I can get it brand new and feel like i got a deal and everything just going to work no worries and customer service will be nice to me cause it is new! so 8 cores(with hyper threading to give me 16cores!!!) 64ram(I think 8gb ram is good for each since that what i have on the machine i ran the first simulation on), 250gb and up sdd... but look the machine i link to look at it and tell me what you think cause i'm considering buying it since it does comes with a 30 days return policy that plenty of time to see if the machine does meet my expectation hell i should know in one day if it does and the other days are just to see if it holding up okay or giving out to some degree... is it being consistent with it performance. I look forward to hearing back from you. and the other guy too this should have some of his answer.

https://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?item=9SIAC0F8UP4871
 
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Have you looked into something like Wirecast? Multi camera and streaming in one package, on one system.
https://www.telestream.net/wirecast/store.asp


Maybe even OBS can do it
View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8UtXvJq-l5M
you giving me every other recommend than what i ask for and i gave you all information you ask for.

I have but two question for you... what do you think of the two following machine one used and the other brand new:

this one is brand new include 64gb ram six core going at 2.5ghz with a 256gb ssd

https://www.amazon.com/Dell-Precision-T5610-Workstation-Pre-Install/dp/B06X93FTV8/ref=sr_1_12?qid=1552527166&refinements=p_n_feature_five_browse-bin:13580787011,p_n_condition-type:2224371011,p_36:-100000&rnid=2421879011&s=pc&sr=1-12

or the used one that include 128gb ram an 8 core processor going at 2.9ghz and a 2tb hard drive

https://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?item=9SIAC0F8UP4871

give your honest recommendation on those two machine even if you say keep searching these two arent good and wont meet your requirement.
 
Not sure Win10 will even support quad socket...(HyperV sure will, but, you'd then need a host OS to administer it)

I see there is a special Win10 Pro for Workstations that supports quad socket...

https://www.extremetech.com/computing/254031-microsoft-launches-new-windows-10-variant-windows-10-pro-workstations

That's a VERY good price on that server you linked...; probably more than you need, but, at that cost and with that amount of RAM, if it works, I'd probably hit it!

Heck you could always remove 2 CPUs and corresponding RAM (and sell them off) to make it work with WIn10 Pro, or, better yet....just buy WIn10 Pro for Workstations....
 
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Not sure Win10 will even support quad socket...(HyperV sure will, but, you'd then need a host OS to administer it)

I see there is a special Win10 Pro for Workstations that supports quad socket...

https://www.extremetech.com/computing/254031-microsoft-launches-new-windows-10-variant-windows-10-pro-workstations

That's a VERY good price on that server you linked...; probably more than you need, but, at that cost and with that amount of RAM, if it works, I'd probably hit it!

Heck you could always remove 2 CPUs and corresponding RAM (and sell them off) to make it work with WIn10 Pro, or, better yet....just buy WIn10 Pro for Workstations....
which one? They both have window 10 pro and with that I can use window native virtual ware. Link the link back to me or something so I know what you talking about. According to the information to the link below:



https://superuser.com/questions/959888/how-many-physical-sockets-does-windows-10-support

and here

https://answers.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/forum/windows_10-win_upgrade/windows-10-versions-cpu-limits/905c24ad-ad54-4122-b730-b9e7519c823f?auth=1

and window home edition have a limit on ram of 128 but not window pro it ram get top off at 2tb:


why you point out work station? cause I want multiple virtual machine running at the same time? Plus like I said window pro seem to have native virtual ware a and since it seem hyperV is more for server environment anyway. Again which link are you talking about with the computer? link it back to me.
 
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Listen up! To anyone who can just give me your honest opinion on the three machine below and tell me which is the best one for me or should I keep searching.

this one?

https://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?item=9SIAC0F8UP4871



or this one?

https://www.amazon.com/Workstation-Graphics-Windows-Certified-Refurbished/dp/B07CWWYS6Q/ref=sr_1_3?qid=1552502821&amp;refinements=p_n_feature_five_browse-bin%3A13580787011&amp;s=pc&amp;sr=1-3



or this one?

https://www.amazon.com/Workstation-Professional-Installed-Certified-Refurbished/dp/B07CWXXGTT/ref=sr_1_2?qid=1552502821&amp;refinements=p_n_feature_five_browse-bin%3A13580787011&amp;s=pc&amp;sr=1-2



To better help ya help me who ever give their honest opinion on the three machine and which one would be the best for my use case or you tell me to keep searching I'll mark your reply as the answer.
 

13thmonkey

Titan
Moderator
To better help us help you, a BA does nothing.

Those are all modern class processors, personally I'd go for the Z620, 16 real cores, and 32 threads, the 96GB of ram is a shame, 128 would be nice. But it'll get you started.

As to whether it is right for your application, no idea, it's a nice balance of power out of the three, no dual GPU that you won't need, so it's the best of the bunch.

Since we can't model what you are doing all you can do is estimate which has the most grunt, and if that is within your budget then that's your best choice right now. Your software, doing your things, might need more, might need less, might be serviced by some other simpler hardware, a VM for each stream seems excessive imo. However consider the likely cost of other solutions, a decently powered desktop would be similar, some specific hardware likely to be similar or a bit less.

If you were going to have to spend big money to see if this worked then you'd put more effort in up front, seeing how scaling from 1 to 4 streams worked on a test machine. But for this money, it'll do what it does, it'll cost you more to find out than to buy this and try it.
 
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