A10-7850K or AMD FX 8350? On a Budget.

[Niral DMello]

(I Haven't assembled a Lo-mid end PC in 5 years, hence very rusty, please bare with me. Please correct me if I'm wrong or mixed up)

Was able to basket'ed a A10-7850K @ $172.7 on a flash sale online, it's otherwise priced @ $196.5 . After Booking it I realized the AMD FX 8350 is priced @ $215.9.

Now I'm wondering If I should cancel and get the FX 8350, both are clocked at 4GHZ, but the later being an octa core is really making me re-think my decision.

The aim of the rig is a bit of Blender 3d based animations, and Gimp/Inkscape editing. And a bit of gaming. Now I've seen a video of YouTube running a A10-7850k based rig and playing min and medium settings with descent frame rate. Without a a dedicated or cross fire GPU. That was the reason I hastily booked the APU in the first place, but now I'm wondering if it's the best way to go.

I planning to go for: (Any and all feedback is welcome)

MSI A88X-G45 GAMING Motherboard
Antec ASK-4000B-U3 Mid Tower Cabinet (Or any other cabinet around that range?)
Corsair VS550 550 Watt PSU or Corsair VS450
Kingston HyperX FURY Memory DDR3 8 GB PC (HX318C10F/8) or shall I go for 4GB x 2 (Or as I plan to upgrade to another 8GB DIMM in the future)
Seagate Barracuda 2 TB Desktop Internal Hard Drive (ST2000DM001) or 1TB Depending on Budget
Cooler Master Hyper TX3 EVO Cooler
A Optical drive

I hope Iv'e not missed anything, If I have, please correct me.


In the future I plan to upgrade the RAM with another DIMM if I got the 8GB DIMM way.
As well as an SSD or another 2TB or 1 TB and Raid it.

And a Dedicated GPU maybe a AMD/ATI 270x/280x in 6-12 months (Saving on the $200+ on a GPU for now and investing the same in a power supply cabinet and cooling, which I will not have to upgrade in the future. Would a 450W or 550W PSU be sufficient?)

I'm not a gamer anymore, haven't played a game in over 3 years. Might want to give GTA-V, Far Cry 3 /4 a shot, but playable is good enough. I remember playing and finishing Max Payne on a PIII 800MHZ without a GPU, and frame dropping to 4-7FPS during explosions, then a friend gifted me his old GeFore MX 200 32mb Card, On which i replayed Max payne and was not only able to complete the game quicker because of the 25+fps, but actually enjoy the game. Hence I'm a person who makes do with what I have at my disposal.

Hope you all can help me out in this situation.

Thanks in advance.

P.s. The YouTube Link I mentioned Earlier: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J2cxUAH1cWg

To Admin/Moderators, please remove link If it's not permitted. As in the forum rules, there was not mention if YouTube links were permitted or not. Thanks

 

[Suztera]

With a FX 8350, you need a graphic card to get any display at all. There are no integrated graphics. Also you need a decent motherboard to pair it with, especially if you plan to overclock. The minimum I would spend would be Gigabyte 970A UD3P or MSI 970 Gaming.If you definitely getting a mid-range gpu later on, The FX 8350 will be better if you already have an old graphic card to use first.



I would not use Corsair VS series for a gaming rig. Neither Corsair CX or CS series. Go with a XFX 550W or Seasonic 520/620W.

If you take the A10-7850k, getting fast ram like 2400Mhz will help in games.
With your youtube link, the pc setup is different from yours. The 2400Mhz ram and the graphic on that cpu is overclocked.
Also note that the MSI A88X-G45 has decent gaming benchmarks but falls in CPU benchmarks.

 

[Niral DMello]

Thanks for the reply.

With a FX 8350, you need a graphic card to get any display at all. There are no integrated graphics. Also you need a decent motherboard to pair it with, especially if you plan to overclock. The minimum I would spend would be Gigabyte 970A UD3P or MSI 970 Gaming.If you definitely getting a mid-range gpu later on, The FX 8350 will be better if you already have an old graphic card to use first..

Yes, When I originally came across the FX 8350. I thought about getting a 250x to strike a balance with the budget (do not have a card that can be used). But then realized, would need to cut back on other components. Hence was wondering if it was worth the loss of quality on other components.

If I go with the FX will I be able to Sacrifice on Ram speed since there will be an addition 4 physical cores or will that create a bottleneck? And Motherboard? so that other components can be accommodated.

Q. When I do upgrade with a discreet GPU and the APU's GPU will be disabled will there be an additional boost to the CPU as the GPU functionality is not using any resources anymore? As AMD does advertise the A10-7850k as 12 cores (4 physical and 8 logical). Hence will the 8 logical boost performance close to the FX? As FX clearly has an advantage with the 8 physical. The AMD marketing strategy has confused me.

I would not use Corsair VS series for a gaming rig. Neither Corsair CX or CS series. Go with a XFX 550W or Seasonic 520/620W.

Would that make a big difference? Was under the impression if the watt requirement is calculated, while an extra overhead is added to the calculation taking the build quality into consideration, hence even a generic PSU would work just fine. Example: If the calculation works out to 490W a 550-650w Generic PSU would do the job, while precautionary measure are taken between the wall socket and PSU. As that's what I've pretty much done in the past while working on budgets below $400.

I could be a wrong there. Please do correct me.

If you take the A10-7850k, getting fast ram like 2400Mhz will help in games.
With your youtube link, the pc setup is different from yours. The 2400Mhz ram and the graphic on that cpu is overclocked.
Also note that the MSI A88X-G45 has decent gaming benchmarks but falls in CPU benchmarks

ASUS A88XM-A Motherboard (By opting for this I can invest amount saved in the Corsair Vengeance Pro 2)
Corsair Vengeance Pro 2 X 4GB - 2133Mhz DDR3 8 GB PC (CMY8GX3M2A2133C11 - Black) (Unable to find the Radeon r9 2400Mhz in my area)
Corsair VS650 650 Watt PSU (If you had a choice between the VS650 and the Seasonic 520W, which would you go for and why?)

let's say Far Cry 4 @ 1024 x 768 30 fps from the above, lol i don't even know if Far Cry supports the res?

Assuming I'm stuck with the A10-7850K would the above changes make sense? I Don't think I would be overclocking anyway. Have had bad experiences in the past. If I drop the gaming bit completely and keep my fingers crossed, will it be descent enough for Blender/After Effects/Photoshop/Inkscape ? Don't have very high expectations as long as I don't have to wait 4 hours for a 240 frame render to complete in blender.


Thanks once again.

 

[Suztera]

With ram 1600Mhz is fine, go for 1866mhz if it is the same price for a 1600Mhz. You won't notice a difference. Ram speed is less important in rendering, you do want enough ram to render at a given resolution. So getting a single 8GB stick allows you to get another in the future to make 16GB ram.
A10-7850k advertise the cpu and gpu cores together hence 12 total. It is slightly weaker than a FX 8350.
FX 8350 has 4 modules since they are not dedicated cores so two cores will share the same cache.

Corsair VS series and CX series aren't built with the same quality as a Seasonic 520W.
I would go Seasonic 520W over a Corsair VS 650. A generic 550W probably won't power 500W on the 12 V rails unlike a quality psu, maybe 380 watts.
Fary Cry 4 will support a 1024 x 768 resolution.

The A10- 7850k is an ok cpu for light rendering.
There more info with this review:
http://www.tomshardware.co.uk/a10-7850k-a8-7600-kaveri,review-32867-10.html

With a FX 8350 you can pretty much match rendering performance with an i5 4690k or even an i7. For gaming, it is also a better cpu.

If you gonna do rendering for a living, get the FX 8350 and save up for a better graphic card later on if you want gaming.

 

[Narcissistic_Martyr]

Doesn't blender use CUDA cores for certain types of rendering? If so an fx8320 set to 4GHz and a used GTX580 for $100 would probably be your best bang for buck atm. You'd have trouble at 1080p with the most recent games (the 3GB version would help and will let you render bigger things), but medium settings would do fine I suspect. You can add more GTX580s as well if you've got the power and cooling for them to further improve rendering time. However, I'd double check that on a blender related forum to make sure since I don't use the program.

Link that shows GTX580 performance on CUDA enabled blender work loads compared to CPU and some other GPUs

 

[Niral DMello]

With ram 1600Mhz is fine, go for 1866mhz if it is the same price

for a 1600Mhz. You won't notice a difference. Ram speed is less important in rendering, you do

want enough ram to render at a given resolution. So getting a single 8GB stick allows you to

get another in the future to make 16GB ram.
A10-7850k advertise the cpu and gpu cores together hence 12 total. It is slightly weaker than a

FX 8350.
FX 8350 has 4 modules since they are not dedicated cores so two cores will share the same

cache.

Corsair VS series and CX series aren't built with the same quality as a Seasonic 520W.
I would go Seasonic 520W over a Corsair VS 650. A generic 550W probably won't power 500W on the

12 V rails unlike a quality psu, maybe 380 watts.
Fary Cry 4 will support a 1024 x 768 resolution.

The A10- 7850k is an ok cpu for light rendering.
There more info with this review:
http://www.tomshardware.co.uk/a10-7850k-a8-7600-kaveri,review-32867-10.html

With a FX 8350 you can pretty much match rendering performance with an i5 4690k or even an i7.

For gaming, it is also a better cpu.

If you gonna do rendering for a living, get the FX 8350 and save up for a better graphic card

later on if you want gaming.

Sorry about the delayed response. Have been researching info on system setup. Have learnt

Faster isn't always better. Found the benchmarks below in which the 1866Mhz beats the 2133Mhz

(In a few cases)

http://www.pugetsystems.com/labs/articles/AMD-A10-7850K-Performance-Review-

529/#ImpactofRAMSpeedonGamingPerformance

Yes the Fx 8350 is a stronger CPU, though it seems HSA Foundation has released version 1.0 specification and the Kaveri matches those specifications 95%. In terms or real world figures will have to wait and watch. Assuming HSA is incorporated into OS's, applications and games we could be looking at premium performances from APU's on a budget. In no scenario does any APU out perform a CPU+GPU even on a budget. I have gone with my gut feeling and put my money on the AMD A10-7850K. Hoping the HSA will buy me some time even after the adding discrete GPUs.

You are right, PSU efficiency ratings seems to be taken into consideration. The Corsair VS series seem to have a 80% efficiency rating, where as CX has an advertised 85%(Minimum efficiency not advertised) and Seasonic S12II Bronze Series have a rating of 85% with a minimum of 82% at different loads. But the price is a concern, A CX series 500 watt is 2/3rd the price of a Seasonic 520Watt.

the math for a PSU calculation seems to be: PSU watt * Effeciancy rating = Theoritical Real world wattage. Hence a Seasonic 520w * 85% = 442watts(Maximum) 426.4Watts(Minimum).

The question that I'm still puzzled about is why do GPU manufacturers recommend a 500W+ PSU or 600watt+ PSU? What do they take into consideration to mention the minimum requirements? What if someone is using multiple GPU's? Or powering a heavily cooled system? That is the main concern holding me back from finalizing a PSU.

Finalized components so far:

A10-7850K
ASRock FM2A88X Extreme6+ Motherboard

UN-finalized components:

RAM
CASE
Cooling solution
PSU
HDD
SSD (will a 32GB or 64 GB be sufficient? for windows 7 or 8 or 10? and/or dual boot Ubuntu/windows)

To Moderator: Not closing the question at the moment, will close once the build is finalized. As it will help people with the same questions about APU's vs CPU's in the future.

 

[Niral DMello]

Doesn't blender use CUDA cores for certain types of rendering? If so an fx8320 set to 4GHz and a used GTX580 for $100 would probably be your best bang for buck atm. You'd have trouble at 1080p with the most recent games (the 3GB version would help and will let you render bigger things), but medium settings would do fine I suspect. You can add more GTX580s as well if you've got the power and cooling for them to further improve rendering time. However, I'd double check that on a blender related forum to make sure since I don't use the program.

Link that shows GTX580 performance on CUDA enabled blender work loads compared to CPU and some other GPUs

From what I've come to understand is that the 'Cycles Render' was released in 2011, and over the years CUDA has had a more stable specification, hence the Blender developers gave first preference to CUDA and that's why is has a more mature/stable state than OpenCL. Though the future looks brighter for OpenCL, in certain benchmarks it out performs CUDA though by a miniscule margin .

Though was wondering does CUDA restrict the coupling of a certain type of CPU (in my case A10-7850K) with an nVidia card? Or any AMD/Intel coupled with a CUDA enabled nVidia card would do the Job?

 

[Suztera]

Well the difference between 1600Mhz and 2133Mhz is significant

They state higher wattage due to the low quality "700W" that actually can only output 400W on the 12V rails. A decent 550W psu will be fine for any single graphic card build. For an APU, it consumes less wattage than a build with a dedicated gpu.
CX5000 is sub-standard quality. Seasonic is top tier quality. I would go with a Seasonic where possible.

SSD : I would try to gor for at least 128GB but the sweet spot currently is 256GB if you want some large files on the SSD.

HDD is pretty standard, either Western Digital or Seagate.
Cooling: cooler master 212 EVO
Case: is subjective
Ram: most brands like Kingston or Gskill is fine. For a cpu, 1600 or 1866Mhz CAS 9 is prefered. For an APU, 2133Mhz.

 

[Niral DMello]

Well the difference between 1600Mhz and 2133Mhz is significant

They state higher wattage due to the low quality "700W" that actually can only output 400W on the 12V rails. A decent 550W psu will be fine for any single graphic card build. For an APU, it consumes less wattage than a build with a dedicated gpu.
CX5000 is sub-standard quality. Seasonic is top tier quality. I would go with a Seasonic where possible.

SSD : I would try to gor for at least 128GB but the sweet spot currently is 256GB if you want some large files on the SSD.

HDD is pretty standard, either Western Digital or Seagate.
Cooling: cooler master 212 EVO
Case: is subjective
Ram: most brands like Kingston or Gskill is fine. For a cpu, 1600 or 1866Mhz CAS 9 is prefered. For an APU, 2133Mhz.

Thanks once again.

Have ordered the Kingston V300 240 GB.
About to order the Kingston Hyperx Savage Gaming Ram 8gb Ddr3 2133mhz Cl11 Pc3-17000 1.6v, but do not see it on the Mother Board support list. http://www.asrock.com/mb/AMD/FM2A88X%20Extreme6+/?cat=Memory
Do I need to worry about compatibility? Or have a chance of facing issues?

 

[Suztera]

Well the difference between 1600Mhz and 2133Mhz is significant

They state higher wattage due to the low quality "700W" that actually can only output 400W on the 12V rails. A decent 550W psu will be fine for any single graphic card build. For an APU, it consumes less wattage than a build with a dedicated gpu.
CX5000 is sub-standard quality. Seasonic is top tier quality. I would go with a Seasonic where possible.

SSD : I would try to gor for at least 128GB but the sweet spot currently is 256GB if you want some large files on the SSD.

HDD is pretty standard, either Western Digital or Seagate.
Cooling: cooler master 212 EVO
Case: is subjective
Ram: most brands like Kingston or Gskill is fine. For a cpu, 1600 or 1866Mhz CAS 9 is prefered. For an APU, 2133Mhz.

Thanks once again.

Have ordered the Kingston V300 240 GB.
About to order the Kingston Hyperx Savage Gaming Ram 8gb Ddr3 2133mhz Cl11 Pc3-17000 1.6v, but do not see it on the Mother Board support list. http://www.asrock.com/mb/AMD/FM2A88X%20Extreme6+/?cat=Memory
Do I need to worry about compatibility? Or have a chance of facing issues?

Motherboards manufacturer don't have the time to test every single ram out there. It should be compatible but if you worried, get something off the motherboard compatibility list.

 

[Niral DMello]

Thanks again.

Got the A10-7580K today.
Now waiting on the:
ASRock FM2A88X Extreme6+ Motherboard
Kingston V300 240 GB
Kingston Hyperx Savage Gaming Ram 8gb Ddr3 2133mhz Cl11 Pc3-17000 1.6v

WD 2tb HDD
Planning to get the Antec X1-T (Do I need to get a 2.5 inch to 3.5 inch bracket for this case separately?)

The Seasonic is breaking my budget, Instead of corsair can I opt in for a Antec VP500PC 500W PSU or Cooler Master Power Supply B500 500 Watts PSU? at least for the moment, till I don't get a 270x or 280x GPU?

 

[Niral DMello]

Does the Seasonic ECO 500watt look good in my case?