Accuracy VS Damage

G

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Archived from groups: alt.games.coh (More info?)

I created the following crude little model to demonstrate the
differences between slotting Accuracy and Damage.

You have five cards, with initially blank faces. You then get
nine dots to spread out among their faces, any way you wish.
Battles will be simulated by shuffling the cards and turning them
over, one by one. Against tougher opponents, you are allowed to
turn over fewer cards.

Slotting all accuracy is like spreading out your dots as evenly
as possible, two on four cards, one on one card. That means
there are five possible permutations:

(1 2 2 2 2)
(2 1 2 2 2)
(2 2 1 2 2)
(2 2 2 1 2)
(2 2 2 2 1)

In a four card simulation, you'll draw seven dots 4/5 of the time, and
eight dots 1/5 of the time.

In a three card simulation, you'll draw five dots 3/5 of the time,
and six dots 2/5 of the time.

In a two card simulation, you'll draw three dots 2/5 of the time, and
four dots 3/5 of the time.

In a one card battle, you'll get one dot 1/5 of the time, and two
dots 4/5 of the time.

It's a balanced, predictable strategy. You go very far towards
removing chance from your battles, which means fewer unpleasant
surprises. Foes that you've beaten once, you will almost
certainly beat again.

Slotting all damage is like centralizing your dots, all on one
card. That also leaves five permutations:

(9 0 0 0 0)
(0 9 0 0 0)
(0 0 9 0 0)
(0 0 0 9 0)
(0 0 0 0 9)

This strategy is more powerful the weaker your opponent. Versus
strong ones, you'll start having many battles where you do no
damage.

Four cards: 9 dots 4/5, 0 dots 1/5.
Three cards: 9 dots 3/5, 0 dots 2/5.
Two cards: 9 dots 2/5, 0 dots 3/5.
One card: 9 dots 1/5, 0 dots 4/5.

This is a risky strategy. It whoops up on the lower level foes.
If you're an AoE blaster grabbing XP against green and blue groups
in a hazard zone, it's almost certainly what you want.

Against a powerful, dangerous opponents your performance will
fluctuate wildly. You'll never be certain you can win, but
sometimes you will perform feats that other strategy cannot dream
of.

Look at the two strategies side by side:

Four cards:
Acc 7 7 7 7 8
Dam 9 9 9 9 0

Damage is better 4/5 of the time.

Three cards:
Acc 6 6 6 5 5
Dam 9 9 9 0 0

Damage is better 3/5 of the time.

Two cards:
Acc 3 3 4 4 4
Dam 9 9 0 0 0

Accuracy is better 3/5 of the time

One card:
Acc 2 2 2 2 1
Dam 9 0 0 0 0

Accuracy is better 4/5 of the time.

At low levels, except as certain kinds of Blasters, you are more
evenly matched against your opponent than you will be at higher
levels, when you start to overpower him regularly .That's why
accuracy is of more help than damage at low levels.
*cough* exceptions).

A mixed strategy, for example: 3 3 1 1 1, will prove best against
mid-level opponets, with the two card draw. Try it and see.

There are some flaws in this simulation. In practice, accuracy
has a theshold over which it cannot increase. The way this would
work in the simulation is you would have to remove dots from your
cards the weaker your opponent gets.

In addition, the probabilities are not the same. In this
simulation, each draw is effected by the previous one. In the
game, they are not connected (except for the streak-breaker,
which means missing several times in a row increases your chance
to hit, which slightly benefits the Damage strategy). In the
game, you can have a mere 20% chance to hit and still hit five
times in a row. That can never happen with this card simulation.

In City of Heroes, your damage is more heavily docked than your
accuracy against higher level opponents. Here's the current
table:

+Levels Hit% Dam%
0 75 100
1 68 90
2 61 80
3 55 65
4 48 48
5 41 30
6 34 15
7 25 8
8 11 5
9 6 4
10 5 3
11 5 2
12+ 5 1

For example, at +4 levels, your accuracy has been reduced by
45.3%, your damage by 52.0%.

This suggests that perhaps damage is more valuable against higher
level foes than accuracy. But the simulation above shows why that
may not be the case.

--
Neil Cerutti
 
Archived from groups: alt.games.coh (More info?)

I disagree that ACC is more important against lower level enemies.
Quite the contrary, it's more important against higher level enemies.
The game already gives you an almost 100% chance to fight lower level
enemies, ACC is just wasted. On the other hand, against higher level
enemies you have 50% or less chance to hit (less chance the higher the
level difference), so the more ACC the better.
 
Archived from groups: alt.games.coh (More info?)

well you gotta see each power details (not in the game, I see them
through programs like herobuilder or hero maker whatever I forgot
name). Some powers add ACC, others substract. I normally add ACC to
attacks that have ACC penalties, also to area attacks and to long
recharge attacks (I don't want to miss on a thing that takes me 2
minutes to recast)
Now on non-damaging attacks I do add ACC, like hold for controllers, or
the hit/heals some defenders have. For them hitting is more important
than whatever damage comes from the power.
 
Archived from groups: alt.games.coh (More info?)

Neil Cerutti <neil.cerutti@tds.net> looked up from reading the entrails
of the porn spammer to utter "The Augury is good, the signs say:

>I created the following crude little model to demonstrate the
>differences between slotting Accuracy and Damage.
<snip loads of math>
>+Levels Hit% Dam%
>0 75 100
>1 68 90
>2 61 80
>3 55 65
>4 48 48
>5 41 30
>6 34 15
>7 25 8
>8 11 5
>9 6 4
>10 5 3
>11 5 2
>12+ 5 1

And here you have shown exactly why I used 2 accuracy SOs per attack on
Shadeling.
That +66% Acc meant that I still reached the 95% accuracy cap vs +6
enemies.
[This came in very handy during respec trials when I wasn't at the max
level of the group and faced lots of +4s.]

Practically though, any more than +4 cuts your damage so much fights
become excessively tedious for little gain.

>For example, at +4 levels, your accuracy has been reduced by
>45.3%, your damage by 52.0%.
>
>This suggests that perhaps damage is more valuable against higher
>level foes than accuracy. But the simulation above shows why that
>may not be the case.

Two Accuracy is all anyone would need on a daily basis - some of the
debuffing mobs that are also +levels might require more.
This is usually where a build-up type power got used to boost accuracy
more.
Thinking specifically of CoT Death Mages on PI, who really nail you with
acc debuffs - a real pain to fight if they're several levels higher than
you as well.

Xocyll
--
I don't particularly want you to FOAD, myself. You'll be more of
a cautionary example if you'll FO And Get Chronically, Incurably,
Painfully, Progressively, Expensively, Debilitatingly Ill. So
FOAGCIPPEDI. -- Mike Andrews responding to an idiot in asr
 
Archived from groups: alt.games.coh (More info?)

In article
<1105629296.685306.94200@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>, wolfing
wrote:
> I disagree that ACC is more important against lower level
> enemies.

I didn't mean to say that it was. In fact, I showed the opposite.

But there *is* a marked increase in debt for me if I slot no
accuracy with a low level character, and I tried to briefly
discuss it, because it isn't demonstrated by the model.

The reason, I believe, is hit point scaling of enemies. You
simply don't need much damage to defeat enemies when you are low
level, but you do need to hit them.

For example, at first through fifth level, Brawl is often an
effective attack, requiring only 5 or 6 applications to down an
enemy. By level 20, whittling away with Brawl is totally
impractical.

> Quite the contrary, it's more important against higher level
> enemies.

Right.

> The game already gives you an almost 100% chance to fight lower
> level enemies, ACC is just wasted.

Have you tried that approach? I have, and I really did dislike
it.

> On the other hand, against higher level enemies you have 50% or
> less chance to hit (less chance the higher the level
> difference), so the more ACC the better.

Right.

--
Neil Cerutti
 
Archived from groups: alt.games.coh (More info?)

In article
<1105639698.758519.196020@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>, wolfing
wrote:
> well you gotta see each power details (not in the game, I see
> them through programs like herobuilder or hero maker whatever I
> forgot name). Some powers add ACC, others substract. I
> normally add ACC to attacks that have ACC penalties, also to
> area attacks and to long recharge attacks (I don't want to miss
> on a thing that takes me 2 minutes to recast) Now on
> non-damaging attacks I do add ACC, like hold for controllers,
> or the hit/heals some defenders have. For them hitting is more
> important than whatever damage comes from the power.

We definitely agree. There was confusion in my original post
between fighting "lower-level" opponents, i.e., those that are
-1, -2, or -3, and fighting when you are just low level.

--
Neil Cerutti