Question Adding a 2nd GPU using an M.2 NVMe to PCIe 16x Riser

Loldude

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Mar 18, 2015
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Hey fellas!

I'm thinking about buying an RTX 3060 TI as a future upgrade for my PC.
My PC Build is the most common budget/mid-range build from a few years back:

AMD Ryzen 5 2600 (With Asus PRIME B350M-E)
Nvidia GeForce GTX 1060 6GB (Gigabyte WindForce 2x OC)
2x8GB 3200 HyperX DDR4 RAM CL 18 (shame its 18, I know)
Corsair VS650 ( 80 Plus White PSU rated 650W )

I've done some research and discovered the following:
  1. There's a Riser Card that could act as an adapter from an M.2 M key to PCIe x16
  2. Even an Overclocked RTX 3090 can run on PCIe 2.0 x16 with small performance loss.
  3. My motherboard has what seems to be a compatible M.2 M key Connector, capable running at PCIe 3.0 x4.
  4. My PSU is rated for enough power to accommodate my GTX 1060 6GB AND an RTX 3060 TI, according to this article.
  5. My PSU has just enough (2x 6/8 pin EPS/ATX12V) cables, the 1060 uses 1x 6 pin and the 3060 uses 1x 8 pin.
  6. According to the video at #2 - 4k 120 Hz needs around 4GB/s, a simple calculation yields that 1080p at 120 Hz needs a quarter of that,
just 1GB/s of PCIe bandwidth. My PCIe 3.0 x4 capable M.2 connector offers 4GB/s.
Quadruple than what my 1080p 120hz gaming will require if I decide to game on my GTX 1060 6GB using the Riser card.
Most probably I will use the 1060 for GPU Memory intensive tasks (not gaming, not mining but similar to mining), so bandwidth
plays even less of a role.

TDP: GTX 1060 6GB: 120W RTX 3060 TI: 200W with 330W spare for the motherboard, CPU, and actual GPU power draw.

So say I got that RTX 3060 TI, I have the PSU requirements, I can house it at my motherboard's normal PCIe 3.0 x16 slot,
and connect my older, GTX 1060 6GB using the riser card that I'll buy. Everything should work properly, right? well, here are:

My questions / concerns:

  1. Is there a difference between M.2 M and M.2 M2 keys (both support the 2280 form factor)?
  2. Is a 650W 80 Plus rated PSU really capable of handling my system + both GPUs when they are at full load? (stock clock rates)
  3. (This I could probably find out myself): Does the RAM CL18 relative high latency can significantly decrease
the performance of the 3060 TI for 1080p 120 / 144 Hz gaming?
4. Since the M.2 runs at PCIe standard, will my motherboard treat the GTX 1060 I will connect to it normally?
If the bandwidth is not an issue, everything should work normally, right? How about if the card isn't connected
to a monitor? Would that be an issue to use it for said GPU Memory intensive tasks? Again - NOT mining. Screw miners.
5. I have some more minor concerns about cooling, my Sharkoon Case seems to be big enough to store the motherboard,
the PSU, and the GPU at the bottom of it. But 2 GPUs on a 2 fan chassis seems like a possible thermal throttle scenario.
The cards themselves aren't rated for a very high TDP, only 320W combined, which is 30 less than an RTX 3090.
BTW - a recommended PSU for an RTX 3090 is 750W, using that ratio, 2 GPUs running at a total of 320W should have
a recommended PSU of 685W, which is very close to my 650W PSU.

That's pretty much about it. If I can pull this off, I can preserve my whole system, and upgrade JUST the GPU,
while keeping the older one functioning - which almost sounds too good to be true. Any other thoughts you guys have?
 

Endre

Respectable
Apr 30, 2019
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Hey fellas!

I'm thinking about buying an RTX 3060 TI as a future upgrade for my PC.
My PC Build is the most common budget/mid-range build from a few years back:

AMD Ryzen 5 2600 (With Asus PRIME B350M-E)
Nvidia GeForce GTX 1060 6GB (Gigabyte WindForce 2x OC)
2x8GB 3200 HyperX DDR4 RAM CL 18 (shame its 18, I know)
Corsair VS650 ( 80 Plus White PSU rated 650W )

I've done some research and discovered the following:
  1. There's a Riser Card that could act as an adapter from an M.2 M key to PCIe x16
  2. Even an Overclocked RTX 3090 can run on PCIe 2.0 x16 with small performance loss.
  3. My motherboard has what seems to be a compatible M.2 M key Connector, capable running at PCIe 3.0 x4.
  4. My PSU is rated for enough power to accommodate my GTX 1060 6GB AND an RTX 3060 TI, according to this article.
  5. My PSU has just enough (2x 6/8 pin EPS/ATX12V) cables, the 1060 uses 1x 6 pin and the 3060 uses 1x 8 pin.
  6. According to the video at #2 - 4k 120 Hz needs around 4GB/s, a simple calculation yields that 1080p at 120 Hz needs a quarter of that,
just 1GB/s of PCIe bandwidth. My PCIe 3.0 x4 capable M.2 connector offers 4GB/s.
Quadruple than what my 1080p 120hz gaming will require if I decide to game on my GTX 1060 6GB using the Riser card.
Most probably I will use the 1060 for GPU Memory intensive tasks (not gaming, not mining but similar to mining), so bandwidth
plays even less of a role.

TDP: GTX 1060 6GB: 120W RTX 3060 TI: 200W with 330W spare for the motherboard, CPU, and actual GPU power draw.

So say I got that RTX 3060 TI, I have the PSU requirements, I can house it at my motherboard's normal PCIe 3.0 x16 slot,
and connect my older, GTX 1060 6GB using the riser card that I'll buy. Everything should work properly, right? well, here are:

My questions / concerns:

  1. Is there a difference between M.2 M and M.2 M2 keys (both support the 2280 form factor)?
  2. Is a 650W 80 Plus rated PSU really capable of handling my system + both GPUs when they are at full load? (stock clock rates)
  3. (This I could probably find out myself): Does the RAM CL18 relative high latency can significantly decrease
the performance of the 3060 TI for 1080p 120 / 144 Hz gaming?
4. Since the M.2 runs at PCIe standard, will my motherboard treat the GTX 1060 I will connect to it normally?
If the bandwidth is not an issue, everything should work normally, right? How about if the card isn't connected
to a monitor? Would that be an issue to use it for said GPU Memory intensive tasks? Again - NOT mining. Screw miners.
5. I have some more minor concerns about cooling, my Sharkoon Case seems to be big enough to store the motherboard,
the PSU, and the GPU at the bottom of it. But 2 GPUs on a 2 fan chassis seems like a possible thermal throttle scenario.
The cards themselves aren't rated for a very high TDP, only 320W combined, which is 30 less than an RTX 3090.
BTW - a recommended PSU for an RTX 3090 is 750W, using that ratio, 2 GPUs running at a total of 320W should have
a recommended PSU of 685W, which is very close to my 650W PSU.

That's pretty much about it. If I can pull this off, I can preserve my whole system, and upgrade JUST the GPU,
while keeping the older one functioning - which almost sounds too good to be true. Any other thoughts you guys have?
This is interesting as an experiment, but I wouldn’t do it.
I’d rather sell that old video card and buy the best one that I can afford (RTX 3070/ 3070 Ti/ 3080 etc.)
 
Last edited:

Loldude

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Mar 18, 2015
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This is interesting as an experiment, but I wouldn’t do it.
I’d rather sell that old video card and buy the best one that I can afford (RTX 3070/ 3070 Ti/ 3080 etc.)
Wouldn't you say a 3070 is just not worth it?
Comparing 3070 to 3060 Ti:
Price is 26.8% higher: 930$ vs 1180$ USD (In my country, at least)
Performance is only around 16% better.

I'm set on the 3060 Ti simply because it leads in price to performance at this time.
Also, team red (AMD) is not a choice for me when it comes to a new GPU, I need Ampere based GPU.
 

Zerk2012

Titan
Ambassador
Hey fellas!

I'm thinking about buying an RTX 3060 TI as a future upgrade for my PC.
My PC Build is the most common budget/mid-range build from a few years back:

AMD Ryzen 5 2600 (With Asus PRIME B350M-E)
Nvidia GeForce GTX 1060 6GB (Gigabyte WindForce 2x OC)
2x8GB 3200 HyperX DDR4 RAM CL 18 (shame its 18, I know)
Corsair VS650 ( 80 Plus White PSU rated 650W )

I've done some research and discovered the following:
  1. There's a Riser Card that could act as an adapter from an M.2 M key to PCIe x16
  2. Even an Overclocked RTX 3090 can run on PCIe 2.0 x16 with small performance loss.
  3. My motherboard has what seems to be a compatible M.2 M key Connector, capable running at PCIe 3.0 x4.
  4. My PSU is rated for enough power to accommodate my GTX 1060 6GB AND an RTX 3060 TI, according to this article.
  5. My PSU has just enough (2x 6/8 pin EPS/ATX12V) cables, the 1060 uses 1x 6 pin and the 3060 uses 1x 8 pin.
  6. According to the video at #2 - 4k 120 Hz needs around 4GB/s, a simple calculation yields that 1080p at 120 Hz needs a quarter of that,
just 1GB/s of PCIe bandwidth. My PCIe 3.0 x4 capable M.2 connector offers 4GB/s.
Quadruple than what my 1080p 120hz gaming will require if I decide to game on my GTX 1060 6GB using the Riser card.
Most probably I will use the 1060 for GPU Memory intensive tasks (not gaming, not mining but similar to mining), so bandwidth
plays even less of a role.

TDP: GTX 1060 6GB: 120W RTX 3060 TI: 200W with 330W spare for the motherboard, CPU, and actual GPU power draw.

So say I got that RTX 3060 TI, I have the PSU requirements, I can house it at my motherboard's normal PCIe 3.0 x16 slot,
and connect my older, GTX 1060 6GB using the riser card that I'll buy. Everything should work properly, right? well, here are:

My questions / concerns:

  1. Is there a difference between M.2 M and M.2 M2 keys (both support the 2280 form factor)?
  2. Is a 650W 80 Plus rated PSU really capable of handling my system + both GPUs when they are at full load? (stock clock rates)
  3. (This I could probably find out myself): Does the RAM CL18 relative high latency can significantly decrease
the performance of the 3060 TI for 1080p 120 / 144 Hz gaming?
4. Since the M.2 runs at PCIe standard, will my motherboard treat the GTX 1060 I will connect to it normally?
If the bandwidth is not an issue, everything should work normally, right? How about if the card isn't connected
to a monitor? Would that be an issue to use it for said GPU Memory intensive tasks? Again - NOT mining. Screw miners.
5. I have some more minor concerns about cooling, my Sharkoon Case seems to be big enough to store the motherboard,
the PSU, and the GPU at the bottom of it. But 2 GPUs on a 2 fan chassis seems like a possible thermal throttle scenario.
The cards themselves aren't rated for a very high TDP, only 320W combined, which is 30 less than an RTX 3090.
BTW - a recommended PSU for an RTX 3090 is 750W, using that ratio, 2 GPUs running at a total of 320W should have
a recommended PSU of 685W, which is very close to my 650W PSU.

That's pretty much about it. If I can pull this off, I can preserve my whole system, and upgrade JUST the GPU,
while keeping the older one functioning - which almost sounds too good to be true. Any other thoughts you guys have?
Don't do that!

I would sell the 1060 and buy a quality power supply the VS is not one.
 
Reactions: Archaic59

Loldude

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Mar 18, 2015
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Care to elaborate? What does it mean the power supply is not quality one? If I follow through with my plan,
will it damage any parts of my system? Or is it just the increased power draw due to 80+ efficiency?
Edit: I heard 2012 VS series were awful, seems like my PSU is from 2017. Is it still a horrible choice for multi-GPU setup?
If so tell me how come. Will it just cause premature failures on the GPUs?
Would love for more concrete answers, as in, don't do X because of Y.
 
Last edited:
Care to elaborate? What does it mean the power supply is not quality one? If I follow through with my plan,
will it damage any parts of my system? Or is it just the increased power draw due to 80+ efficiency?
Edit: I heard 2012 VS series were awful, seems like my PSU is from 2017. Is it still a horrible choice for multi-GPU setup?
If so tell me how come. Will it just cause premature failures on the GPUs?
Would love for more concrete answers, as in, don't do X because of Y.
It means it's NOT a quality unit. If it was the one from 2012 and you used it for those two gpus, then you would be able to witness first hand how can a house fire, start.

To determine if a PSU has proper protections, can output the rated efficiency and possibly go beyond that, specific expensive hardware/tools are used and test being done on it.

Since not everyone can afford them or has the knowledge and expertise to use them, a tier list has been created.
Your unit is under Tier D.

The VS series from Corsair are the worst and should be avoided in a gaming rig. Their proper use are office PCs with iGPU at best.

Considering the Nvidia series 3000 have huge power spikes and are known to trip even some of the best PSUs, your VS is at trouble even with just the 3060 ti.
 

Endre

Respectable
Apr 30, 2019
854
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Wouldn't you say a 3070 is just not worth it?
Comparing 3070 to 3060 Ti:
Price is 26.8% higher: 930$ vs 1180$ USD (In my country, at least)
Performance is only around 16% better.

I'm set on the 3060 Ti simply because it leads in price to performance at this time.
Also, team red (AMD) is not a choice for me when it comes to a new GPU, I need Ampere based GPU.
My point is that multi-GPU setups don’t work well, especially when they are not of the exact same model.

I’d just buy the best video card that I can afford (the RTX 3070 was just an example).
 
Care to elaborate? What does it mean the power supply is not quality one? If I follow through with my plan,
will it damage any parts of my system? Or is it just the increased power draw due to 80+ efficiency?
Edit: I heard 2012 VS series were awful, seems like my PSU is from 2017. Is it still a horrible choice for multi-GPU setup?
If so tell me how come. Will it just cause premature failures on the GPUs?
Would love for more concrete answers, as in, don't do X because of Y.
The VS is bottom of the line PSU made from cheap parts. You really should be using something of much higher quality for an RTX 3xxx series video card. Sell the 1060 and get a better power supply.
 
Are you really going to test your luck/put at risk a RTX 3060 TI (with the price it has and how hard its to come by them) with a "strange"ebay cable from unknown brand to plug it to an m.2 slot?
My answer: I woulnd't, probably thats a solution for a notebook, not a desktop.

As for he PSU, if you plan to upgrade your GPU to RTX 3xxx then I agree with everyone that wrote get a better quality unit, from tier A or B ( https://forums.tomshardware.com/threads/psucultists-psu-tier-list-rev-14-8-12-07-2021.3624094/ )
 

Zerk2012

Titan
Ambassador
Care to elaborate? What does it mean the power supply is not quality one? If I follow through with my plan,
will it damage any parts of my system? Or is it just the increased power draw due to 80+ efficiency?
Edit: I heard 2012 VS series were awful, seems like my PSU is from 2017. Is it still a horrible choice for multi-GPU setup?
If so tell me how come. Will it just cause premature failures on the GPUs?
Would love for more concrete answers, as in, don't do X because of Y.
What are you even going to try to rig that card up to do? All you said was to take some load off the other card it don't really work like that.

You say you have enough connectors but you have 2X 6+ 2 pin connectors on a single cable my Seasonic is designed the same way and states for over 250 watts to use 2 cables not the split one.

52A on the 12 volt rail so 624 true watts.

It's true they changed them a bit but still a old design, only a 3 year warranty that shows what they think of the parts used today the standard is really 10 for a high quality PSU.

The protection on the 12 volt rail is not even set right.

In the end it's your PC you can do whatever you wish with it.

https://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/corsair-vs650-psu,6017-6.html

EDIT use it for the 3060ti if you wish (not something I would do) but in no way would I push it to try to run both cards and as stated I see no purpose at all to try to add the 1060.
 
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Loldude

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What are you even going to try to rig that card up to do? All you said was to take some load off the other card it don't really work like that.

You say you have enough connectors but you have 2X 6+ 2 pin connectors on a single cable my Seasonic is designed the same way and states for over 250 watts to use 2 cables not the split one.

52A on the 12 volt rail so 624 true watts.

It's true they changed them a bit but still a old design, only a 3 year warranty that shows what they think of the parts used today the standard is really 10 for a high quality PSU.

The protection on the 12 volt rail is not even set right.

In the end it's your PC you can do whatever you wish with it.

https://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/corsair-vs650-psu,6017-6.html

EDIT use it for the 3060ti if you wish (not something I would do) but in no way would I push it to try to run both cards and as stated I see no purpose at all to try to add the 1060.
I see what you mean. Not sure what split cable you're talking about, the PSU has 2 8-pin cables coming out of it as it is. The purpose or the idea was to use both cards at the same time, the GTX for Heavy GPU Memory computing and the RTX just for display or gaming, too.
I've done some research and found that my PSU is really not recommended for a 2 GPU setup. Too bad I didn't know that a couple years back and would have bought something beefier.

In no way I stated I would like the 2nd GPU to "take some load off" the first GPU. No clue how you got to that from black on white text,
once again, the point is to use them both at the same time for DIFFERENT TASKS. 1 for gaming, the other lets say even rendering a vegas 4k video, for your better understanding. They don't have to interact with each other, pretty much ever.

Anyhow, regardless of the PSU, do you see any other issues?
 

Loldude

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It means it's NOT a quality unit. If it was the one from 2012 and you used it for those two gpus, then you would be able to witness first hand how can a house fire, start.

To determine if a PSU has proper protections, can output the rated efficiency and possibly go beyond that, specific expensive hardware/tools are used and test being done on it.

Since not everyone can afford them or has the knowledge and expertise to use them, a tier list has been created.
Your unit is under Tier D.

The VS series from Corsair are the worst and should be avoided in a gaming rig. Their proper use are office PCs with iGPU at best.

Considering the Nvidia series 3000 have huge power spikes and are known to trip even some of the best PSUs, your VS is at trouble even with just the 3060 ti.
Why would anyone spend money on a 650W PSU for a PC with an iGPU?
Correct me if I'm wrong, an office PC shouldn't do any heavy tasks.
Meaning it shouldn't have power hungry components to need 300-600W.
Meaning if we slap this PSU on PC that consumes 100W we are actually wasting wattage,
since the efficiently is rated for 20% load at its first step, starting ONLY at 130W.

I've done some research regarding PSUs after the comments here, it seems like the sweet spot is 40 %to 60% load,
that's when you get the most efficiency. By going 450W PSU you save some money buying it,
and then you draw power more efficiently throughout the lifespan of that PC/PSU.

If this is all true - and please correct me if I'm wrong - why the hell PSUs like the VS650 exist??
 

Loldude

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The VS is bottom of the line PSU made from cheap parts. You really should be using something of much higher quality for an RTX 3xxx series video card. Sell the 1060 and get a better power supply.
If I had a better PSU, one that is suited for mutli-GPU setup. WILL THIS WORK???

From a discussion called "Adding a 2nd GPU using an M.2 to PCIe 16x Riser"
we REALLY drifted into "Your PSU Sucks and shouldn't work for the current setup you have"
But what about the idea? what about the riser card? what about the bandwidth?

I have 7/7 comments here completely ignore my questions and reply "sell your GPU"
or "sell your PSU".

Gee, that's helpful for me to understand PCIe bandwidth caps on graphics cards.

Don't get me wrong, I appreciate your input, but it completely disregards most of my input.
So what's the point? I now know that VS series are trash and I can burn stuff down if I continue
with my plan. Anyone can offer Any information about the rest of it?
 
Why would anyone spend money on a 650W PSU for a PC with an iGPU?
Correct me if I'm wrong, an office PC shouldn't do any heavy tasks.
Meaning it shouldn't have power hungry components to need 300-600W.
Meaning if we slap this PSU on PC that consumes 100W we are actually wasting wattage,
since the efficiently is rated for 20% load at its first step, starting ONLY at 130W.
That's the whole point I am making. It's not good for anything that really need wattage or anything that is powerful (performance wise) enough to need more power.
I am not saying you SHOULD use it for an office PC, I am saying DON'T use it for anything other than that.

why the hell PSUs like the VS650 exist??
Why does Fiat has the Cinquecento (500) when it also has the Punto? Why does Ford has the Mondeo when it also has the Mustang?
Your question has a very similar answer.

If I had a better PSU, one that is suited for mutli-GPU setup. WILL THIS WORK???

From a discussion called "Adding a 2nd GPU using an M.2 to PCIe 16x Riser"
we REALLY drifted into "Your PSU Sucks and shouldn't work for the current setup you have"
But what about the idea? what about the riser card? what about the bandwidth?
I can speak for myself that my knowledge, experience and expertise are not adequate to answer you so I simply answered what I was certain and waited for other to fill the blanks. Maybe someone else did the same.
My guess is that with a better PSU it will work (3060Ti in the PCIe slot and 1060 on the riser) but you will most probably know if you try it and noone can answer being certain unless they haave already tried it. Most people would change the motherboard instead though.

But you still need to answer this:
What are you even going to try to rig that card up to do? All you said was to take some load off the other card it don't really work like that.
If your answer is for gaming, then you will get the exact same answer from me, as the people above. Don't do it, just sell the 1060 and use the 3060Ti.
The short version is that multi GPU is not supported in the vast majority of games and most of the time it has issues and greatly increases the requirements for power and cooling.
Long version..... Honestly, search this forum and you will find countless other threads about it.
 

Loldude

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That's the whole point I am making. It's not good for anything that really need wattage or anything that is powerful (performance wise) enough to need more power.
I am not saying you SHOULD use it for an office PC, I am saying DON'T use it for anything other than that.


Why does Fiat has the Cinquecento (500) when it also has the Punto? Why does Ford has the Mondeo when it also has the Mustang?
Your question has a very similar answer.


I can speak for myself that my knowledge, experience and expertise are not adequate to answer you so I simply answered what I was certain and waited for other to fill the blanks. Maybe someone else did the same.
My guess is that with a better PSU it will work (3060Ti in the PCIe slot and 1060 on the riser) but you will most probably know if you try it and noone can answer being certain unless they haave already tried it. Most people would change the motherboard instead though.

But you still need to answer this:

If your answer is for gaming, then you will get the exact same answer from me, as the people above. Don't do it, just sell the 1060 and use the 3060Ti.
The short version is that multi GPU is not supported in the vast majority of games and most of the time it has issues and greatly increases the requirements for power and cooling.
Long version..... Honestly, search this forum and you will find countless other threads about it.
CTRL+F "GPU MEMORY INTENSIVE TASK" on this post. I mentioned it a couple times, maybe vegas rendering.
 

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