Adding new SSD to existing RAID 1 SSDs

[Damien8]

Hello,

I currently have 2 SSDs in RAID 1 (mirroring). I want to upgrade my PC (probably with Samsung 850 EVO or PRO), but I don't want to screw things up, since I'm prone on being a giant idiot at times. 😉

Anyways, am I going to be able to just connect new SSD and make a fresh OS install on it (without RAID), but leave my 2 current RAID 1 SSDs in there, to still be able to access data on them? What if I remove them and later put them back in?

Is that going to work or not? Also, if needed, am I still going to be able to boot from them? My mind says no problem, but better safe than sorry.

A fresh install always gives me headaches, so I want to still be able to access old data for some time, before I make sure everything is set up correctly. I have my most important data backed up, obv., but there's always some minor things that I forget. Then, after some weeks, I'm just going to format old SSDs and remove RAID.

Thanks!
Regards,
Damien

 

[Damien8]

So, essentially, my question is indeed so stupid that it doesn't even warrant any answer?

My understanding is that the 2 SSDs in RAID 1 array act as 1 drive (that's just duplicated), so removing them (and later putting them back) shouldn't matter. Or does it somehow possibly damage any data?

 

[etm100]

@Damien8... I have built 2 RAID-5 systems using the intel RAID chip on the MOBO. Based on my understanding of the way the setup works, we're dealing with a whole lot more than just an simple OS install and RAID driver install.
First: Does your MOBO and BIOS allow having multiple parallel modes (IDE/AHCI + RAID) drives running simultaneously? If yes, are you running a hardware or a software RAID array? If it's a hardware RAID, then you will probably be able to insert a new IDE/AHCI mode disk and have it declared as bootable in the BIOS. If Software RAID, well, tough: no joy, EOD.
Second: If the above fits (multiple parallel modes + hardware RAID), after declaring your new IDE/AHCI mode drive bootable in the BIOS, you will have on BIOS POST one IDE/AHCI mode bootable drive and your RAID array... Now you can install your OS on the IDE/AHCI drive. However, your new OS install will need the RAID drivers to "see" the RAID array... and now it gets tricky.
Third: Each hardware RAID array assigns an "ID" number to each member disk. This makes each array unique with its own "ID" number. This is managed at the BIOS level. So, if your OS recognizes the RAID array from the BIOS, it is possible you will see the RAID disk in your OS disk volume manager after installing the RAID driver. You may even get so lucky as to actually be able to access the data on the RAID volume, if you're installing the same OS in the new IDE/AHCI disk as in the RAID array... we're talking chance and magic here, ok?

IMO, don't chance it.
Make a backup of your RAID volume on a single IDE disk; build your disk volumes as you wish from scratch; import your data from your backup... and no chances taken.
The thing is, when you start playing with RAID volumes, one has to consider that volume build as a one-way ticket because of the different intertwined levels of hardware and software. Lots of people build RAID volumes on home machines for the wrong reasons.
Bottom line: the simpler, the better.

 

[Damien8]

An amazing answer/post! Thanks!

First: Does your MOBO and BIOS allow having multiple parallel modes (IDE/AHCI + RAID) drives running simultaneously

I'm not sure. MOBO is ASUS P6X58-E WS.

However, now there's another problem. I was just checking how everything is configured in BIOS and remembered that my MOBO has 6 SATA 3.0 Gb/s ports, but there are also 2 SATA 6.0 Gb/s ports using Marvell® 9128 PCIe SATA6Gb/s controller.
Only the 6 SATA II ports were shown in Main BIOS and SATA configured as [IDE] in "Storage Configuration". That's because my current RAID 1 SSDs are using those 2 SATA III ports. To access that configuration I need to enter RAID BIOS.

So I guess I'm going to have to break the array anyways if I want to free one SATA 6Gb/s port for the new SSD, right?

The thing is, when you start playing with RAID volumes, one has to consider that volume build as a one-way ticket because of the different intertwined levels of hardware and software. Lots of people build RAID volumes on home machines for the wrong reasons.
Bottom line: the simpler, the better.

Yeah. When I was setting up RAID 1 I thought I'm going to need it, but now I realized it's not necessary, since I can just set up regular backups. Situation is also different since you can now have various things set up online, so a fresh OS install isn't such a headache. Last, but not the least, 3 or 4 years ago SSDs were thought as unreliable. Turns out that was wrong, at least in my case.

 

[etm100]

@ Damien8, Asus MOBOs can come with 2 RAID-capable chipsets: Intel & Marvell. Intel runs the 6 SATA ports you see in the BIOS, Marvell runs the 2 "turbo" ports (different color sockets).
"Storage configuration" shows the Intel controlled ports because they are non-RAID. The RAID array ports are shown in a dedicated screen on POST and should be managed from there.

You don't have to break your RAID array from the Marvell controlled SATA ports in order to install your third SSD...
You can directly plug your new SSD into any of the Intel controlled SATA ports shown in the BIOS "Storage configuration" section.

Samsung provides a utility that will transfer all (ALL) of your data from an existing and older disk volume to the new SSD. This utility comes bundled in their CD-Rom delivered with their SSDs. This also means your new SSD must have an equal or larger GB capacity than the existing RAID volume.
In this case, you simply plug in the SSD (one of the Intel ports), run the utility, and you wind up with all of your stuff in the new SSD. Then you can decide on what you want to do with the older RAID volume.

Oh! You must decide on the mode (IDE or AHCI) for your new SSD in the BIOS b e f o r e moving data accross into the new SSD.
Which mode? Up to you, but I would follow the recommendations in the SSDs instructions... Usually AHCI these days.
But, once again: it's up to you. Just figure out the consequences and try to predict if you can live with them or not.

BTW... SSD technology is a lot more mature now than then, so less surprises... However, never do RAID 5 on SSDs, the constant random read/writes crowds them in a hurry... Some guys call doing this "making a brick factory"... a real SSD killer.

SO: Backup your data (not an OS backup); install the SSD on an Intel controlled port; declare IDE/AHCI mode in BIOS; run the CD-provided utility (if Samsung, but most brands have this); decide what you want to do with your RAID array.

On the OS-backup: Windows will require the s a m e disk volume for reinstall because of license rights looking at the disk ID thing. When running a single disk, you can change the number to fit your license and hardware requirements. With a RAID volume, you're going to be playing against security protocols, and will most likely loose access to your data. Going from RAID to normal would cause a security protocol conflict with the ID thing. I wouldn't do it (OS backup).

Hope this helps.

 

[Damien8]

Again lots of very useful information! Much appreciated!

On the OS-backup: Windows will require the s a m e disk volume for reinstall because of license rights looking at the disk ID thing. When running a single disk, you can change the number to fit your license and hardware requirements. With a RAID volume, you're going to be playing against security protocols, and will most likely loose access to your data. Going from RAID to normal would cause a security protocol conflict with the ID thing. I wouldn't do it (OS backup).

Is this an issue only with OEM licences or also full retail licences?

 

[etm100]

@ Damien8, I was talking about the Windows Backup & Restore utility found in the Windows Maintenance Center.
It does a great job, and sure beats having to buy a 3rd party's software, but... it's kind of "basic"... yet gets the job done.
With this utility, you can restore just about any files in the backup to the disk volume you installed Windows in - provided the disk hardware and firmware are undamaged so that you are operating on the same disk where the OS was installed. If, however, you are facing a damaged drive, then you can "rescue" your data and install on a new disk from the backup. You will have to solve the ID thing, and you will need your install disks and code.

Third party backup software may allow a less tedious "emergency restore". If you want to go down that road, please yourself, but do invest time in understanding what you're actually buying, and how it really will come out to unfold once you're faced with chaos. Disks do die. That's a given.

Full and OEM software are the same as far as the program is concerned; they are different as far as the software license fine print goes.

In the "full" (off the shelf) version, the person buying the OS is the end user. The end user is just that: he cannot "sell" the OS to another person. Under the OEM license, the buyer is considered to be an intermediary firm (provided the firm legally exists and has an assembler and/or wholesaler status)... simply put: the buyer is not the end user. As a consequence, the wholesaler receives a less expensive copy of the OS, so that the OS may be sold at the same suggested retail price whether it's off the shelf, or already installed in the machine's bootable disk.
An end user can purchase an OEM copy on the condition the same end user is acting as an assembler (as stated in the License agreement) albeit a non-commercial assembler... hence the obligation to purchase one of the basic computer components together with the OS (CPU, Disk ... sometimes DRAM ... usually not GPU).
Windows has a subroutine on boot which flags any change in the hardware. It calls these changes "upgrades", and may require a re-install (depending on the upgrade).
Depending on the "upgrade," re-install is sometimes needed because of driver discrepancies, yet always required by the License agreement... and you have a limited number of re-installs... and that's why you have to call in to their voice server to get the ad hoc re-install codes.

So, to answer your question in short: no program difference between OEM and retail licenses. Just get ready to call in and prove your copy is legit.

I wish you good luck with your project!

 

[Damien8]

I wish you good luck with your project!

I didn't have access to this account for a week, but I just wanted to thank you for your help! I had no idea about these "Data Migration" services that Samsung and others provide, thanks for pointing it out. It sure made everything very easy.

 

[etm100]

Glad I could help !

If you're going to put your data on another partition than the one Windows is in, the windows backup won't be the best.
You need to decide on image or clone backup.
Considering you're running off of an SSD, I would go the Clone route, because it allows you to simply replace your faulty SSD with the clone SSD, and you're up and flying in no time (just a physical switch).

Have fun with your new setup!