Advice on build

[cosmopollo]

So I've finally decided I can no longer handle playing on my laptop (playing a shooter with 10-15 FPS can really get on your nerves, you know!). I'm trying to build a gaming rig of about €1000 (excl. monitor, keyboard, mouse, etc) with which I can play games like Overwatch, WoW and a heavily modded Skyrim on ultra graphics, but I expect more demanding games like Witcher 3 to only go up to high/mid settings.
I've been looking at the 'Best PC build $1000, but I've honestly got to say that only makes it more confusing for me. Everyone uses different parts, with some having a GPU that's half the entire budget, while others balance it out way more. Frankly, I don't know all that much about computers.
As a base I used an existing build from a friend and updated the parts to the current market. This is what I've come up with:

CPU: i5 4690 (€234,80)
GPU: MSi R9 380 4GB (€204)
Motherboard: Asus Z170 Pro Gaming (€147) Alternative: MSi Z97 PC Mate (€81)
RAM: Kingston HyperX Fury black/blu (€74,95)
Cooling: Cooler Master Hyper 212 EVO (€29,99)
HDD: Seagate Desktop HDD, 1TB (€51,29)
SSD: Kingston SSDNow UV400 120GB (€41,95) Alternative: Samsung 850 EVO 120GB (€69,90)
Power: Corsair RM550X (€99) Alternative: EVGA Supernova 750 (€124,80)
Casing: CM Scout Advanced II (€79) Alternative: CM Storm Enforcer (€69,90)
DVD-Reader: LG-GH24NSCO (€17,90)


Basically, I'd like to hear if this build makes sense. Are there parts that could use an upgrade, or parts that are just too good for the overall build? For example, from what I've read, I think the MSi motherboard should be good enough, but how will that affect the PC compared to the other one?

Don't be afraid to dumb things down. I'm really trying to create something solid here, but with all the available parts it's so easy to get lost. In the meantime I will keep reading the 'best PC build' thread to get some ideas; mainly looks for parts in the same price range as mine and compare their performance.

Thanks in advance!

 

[Mr Kagouris]

Well, first of all, Z170 boards use the LGA 1151 socket whereas Intel 4th gen CPUs are LGA 1150 (whoopsie daisy). Not a problem though since you should be going for the i5 6500 and DDR4 memory anyway.

UV400 SSDs are, for lack of a better phrase, a bit TOO budget-oriented. If you want something cheaper than an 850 Evo, go for an OCZ Trion 150.

For the power supply, assuming you only plan to use one graphics card, a 550W EVGA G2 (or P2 since they seem to have somehow priced them competitively) would be enough.

Case is really up to personal taste.

For cooling, consider a Cryorig M9i instead. The 212 Evo is good but quite honestly Cryorig's stuff looks awesome and provides similar or even better performance than most competitors.

For the GPU, don't go for any last-gen card. Go for either the Rx 470 or the Rx 480 (but don't buy the reference cards).

 

[logainofhades]

First off, that CPU and z170 motherboard are not compatible. (Z97 is.) Blizzard titles traditionally favor Nvidia graphics. You want at least a 240gb SSD. 120gb fills up way to fast. I also would recommend building with a current gen CPU. You get a future upgrade path. Gaming rig, you want to put more emphasis on GPU, as long as you have a decent CPU, and a quality PSU.

PCPartPicker part list / Price breakdown by merchant

CPU: Intel Core i5-6500 3.2GHz Quad-Core Processor (€207.10 @ Mindfactory)
Motherboard: Gigabyte GA-B150M-DS3H Micro ATX LGA1151 Motherboard (€74.53 @ Amazon Deutschland)
Memory: Crucial 8GB (2 x 4GB) DDR4-2133 Memory (€35.98 @ Amazon Deutschland)
Storage: A-Data Premier SP550 240GB 2.5" Solid State Drive (€59.99 @ Amazon Deutschland)
Storage: Western Digital Caviar Blue 1TB 3.5" 7200RPM Internal Hard Drive (€49.95 @ Amazon Deutschland)
Video Card: Gigabyte GeForce GTX 1070 8GB Windforce OC Video Card (€463.08 @ Mindfactory)
Case: BitFenix Nova ATX Mid Tower Case (€38.92 @ Amazon Deutschland)
Power Supply: XFX 550W 80+ Bronze Certified ATX Power Supply (€64.15 @ Amazon Deutschland)
Optical Drive: LG GH24NSC0 DVD/CD Writer (€14.59 @ Amazon Deutschland)
Total: €1008.29
Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available
Generated by PCPartPicker 2016-07-26 15:12 CEST+0200

 

[cosmopollo]

Haha, goes to show how much I actually know about this stuff. I already have some questions though. Both of you advise to use the i5 6500. However, CPUBoss shows i5 4690 scoring better on pretty much every test. Is there a reason the i5 6500 is better that I'm missing?

Secondly, both of you are saying I should get DDR4 instead of DDR3. Again, I really don't know enough about this, but from what I've read DDR3 is still better because DDR4 isn't compatible with a lot of stuff and doesn't outperform DDR3 on lower end PC's like my own.

I don't know if this even makes sense what I'm saying. What I mean is, could you perhaps explain a bit more why your recommend these parts? Sorry for being computer illiterate.

 

[Mr Kagouris]

The reason CPUBoss (which is not an entirely accurate source of comparison) shows the 6500 losing is because it's not the 6th gen counterpart to the 4690. The 6th gen counterpart of the 4690 is the i5 6600. However the clock speed difference is tiny between the i5 6500 and the 6600 and definitely not worth the extra money.

You have a few misconceptions about DDR4. DDR4 is superior in every way, and compatibility comes down to how new DDR4 is. Skylake is the first consumer-grade CPU lineup to feature DDR4 support, up to now it's been limited to Intel's enthusiast-grade X99 platform. DDR4 use will only become more widespread as Intel's upcoming Kabylake and Cannonlake CPUs, and AMD's upcoming Zen CPUs, all will only support DDR4. There's also no way for DDR3 to outperform DDR4 regardless of how "lower end" a PC is (and your build is not low end, it's mid-end). This is because DDR4 inherently offers much higher memory bandwidth. Additionally, with Skylake you're very limited going with DDR3 and will have significantly more difficulty upgrading RAM in the future as DDR4 is the new mainstream standard, causing DDR3 availability to eventually thin out and prices to go up.

 

[n0ns3ns3]

1000 euro build is far from "low-end" PC
The question is what monitor are you using ?
The build suggested by logainofhades is very nice (though i'd throw away the optical drive and use DDR4-2400), but it's intended for 1440p (or at least 1080p@144Hz) monitors with GTX 1070.
The i5 6500 has lower clock, that's why you see the advantage of 4690 over it.
DDR4 is faster and is compatible with newer platforms.
So to make it simple, i5-6600K + Z170 MB + GTX 1060 seems to answer your demand.

 

[logainofhades]

CPU boss is not very accurate way of doing a CPU comparison. The i5 6500 is on the latest platform, giving you an upgrade path. 4690's platform is dead. Not sure what that incompatible stuff is about, for ddr4. As long as the motherboard supports it, it doesn't matter. DDR3's days are numbered. AMD is switching to DDR4, with its next gen platform.

 

[Mr Kagouris]

I'm not sure downgrading to a GTX 1060 to upgrade the CPU is such a good idea, regardless of whether or not the GTX 1070 is overkill for 1080p right now.

 

[n0ns3ns3]

I'm not sure downgrading to a GTX 1060 to upgrade the CPU is such a good idea, regardless of whether or not the GTX 1070 is overkill for 1080p right now.

It's not downgrading, it's building more balanced build. I also explained where the 1070 is suitable.
For the games OP mentioned, 1060 will provide well over 60FPS on 1080p monitor with maxed out settings.
Also, the CPU usually used for much longer period than GPU (2-3 times with average gamer)
I have the 1070, and currently have 1920x1200@60Hz monitor - it is overkill. I got the 1070 since i do plan to get 3440x1440p@75Hz or higher monitor in the next 6 months.

 

[logainofhades]

I would not downgrade to a GTX 1060, vs a GTX 1070, just to overclock. Clock speed doesn't matter as much as it used to, with Intel builds. Getting the better GPU now, means that much longer till it needs replaced. By the time an i5 6500 needs upgraded, the OP would need a new system.

 

[n0ns3ns3]

There are enough CPU intensive games out there. And K version at least gives a way to go to 4.3-4.5GHz to keep CPU relevant for few years.
I see no reason to go with 1070 with less than i7 - it will be wasted (unless used with really high res monitor)

 

[logainofhades]

Except that there is little difference, between an i5 and an i7, in 99.9999% of games out there.

 

[n0ns3ns3]

Crysis 3 would be the oldest i know.
Any DX12 or Vulcan game will benefit from extra threads, so while the 99.9 is true, it is much less within current games.

 

[Mr Kagouris]

If we were to use DX12 and Vulkan as the basis for choosing then OP might as well opt for an Rx 480 and an FX CPU. Since as of yet however we're not at the point of completely disregarding DX11, i5 6500 + GTX 1070 is the best combo for both the present and the near future.

And yes, a GTX 1070 would be "wasted" now but you could make that argument for the GTX 670 a few years ago as well. If you had to choose between a 2nd-gen unlocked i5 and a GTX 660 and a 2nd-gen locked i5 and a GTX 670 right now, which would you choose?

 

[logainofhades]

Not to mention the titles discussed are not DX12.

 

[n0ns3ns3]

I'd choose an unlocked i5. clock for clock it's almost the same as the newest.
Again, I'm not against 1070 - the question if the OP really needs it - there will be no game in the next couple of years that will challenge it on 1080p@60Hz.
The CPU on the other hand can be challenged.
It is very easy to upgrade the GPU. Basically there are no compatibility issues. You can put any modern GPU into any MB with PCIe slot - sounds like 10 years.
But with CPUs it is more complicated since sockets change and your MB is not supporting newer gen. So the complete upgrade is required (CPU+MB and likely the RAM too). So IMHO, picking the unlocked CPU is important, and picking an i7 CPU for high end GPU is even more important.

 

[Mr Kagouris]

Except the LGA 1151 socket is relatively new. It's going to have one more CPU line introduced to it (Kabylake) before Intel presumably changes socket yet again, and considering that Haswell-R CPUs are still widely available it's not hard to imagine Kabylake still being fairly available 2-4 years from now. If DX12 and Vulkan thread utilization makes i7s really useful for gaming OP will have plenty of time to upgrade with no need for different motherboards or RAM, and a locked i7 will undoubtedly be cheaper than a GPU upgrade.

 

[n0ns3ns3]

Except that GPUs is really meant to be upgraded after 3-4 years
And to end this discussion - here are some numbers and examples:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s42gvVS77dU
Pay attention - that guy using i5-4690K @4.4GHz - thats way faster than i5-6500

 

[Mr Kagouris]

Ooh, nice, a YouTube video, I can link those too! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GX5gRN2sNaw

Pay attention - that guy is using an i5-6400, way slower than the 6500.


Also when a GPU "is meant to be upgraded" depends on each person's needs and financial situation, not some arbitrary number.

 

[cosmopollo]

Thanks for all the input! Still looking into all the suggested parts, as I've already noticed some are not available in my country (Netherlands). I'll put my remarks/questions in bulletpoints for clarity:

- I indeed plan to use a 1080p 60Hz screen and it will be a very long time before I will upgrade that.
- People are talking about overclocking. Is that considered a requirement and if so: Is it hard and wouldn't I need a better cooling system?
- I knew the GPU was crucial, but I didn't think it'd play such an immense role in the budget. You guys are debating about 1060 vs 1070. It may be important to add the gigabyte 1070 is €501 and the gigabyte 1060 is €326. Quite a big difference!
- The difference in price of CPU is quite small, on the other hand: i5 6500 is €211 and i5 6600 is €233.
-Logain's build only has 8GB of RAM. Somehow that feels wrong, or is RAM not as important as I think it is?


What I've updated so far:
- Processor: i5 6600 (€233,90)
- GPU: Gigabyte GeForce GTX 1060 G1 Gaming (€326)
- Motherboard: Gigabyte GA-B150M-D3H (€84,90)
- RAM: PNY Anarchy 16GB MD16GK2D4240015AB (€64)
- Cooling: Cryorig M9i (€32,98)
- HDD: Seagate Desktop HDD, 1TB (€51,29)
- SSD: OZC Trion 150 240GB (€69,99)
- Power: Corsair RM550X (€99)
- Case: CM Scout Advanced II (€79)
- DVD-Reader: LG-GH24NSCO (€17,90)

TOTAL: €1060
I want to stay around the €1000 mark. This works, but adding a 1070 would add €200 which would be above my budget.

Also, I really appreciate all the effort you guys put in, thanks!

 

[Mr Kagouris]

If you're gonna go with the mid-range GPU go for an aftermarket (e.g. Sapphire Nitro) Rx 480. It's just as capable as the 1060 in DX11 but more future-proof due to the considerable performance gain from DX12 and Vulkan.

As for RAM capacity, it's more about what you need versus having as much as possible. 8GB RAM is enough, but 16GB gives you more headroom and you won't need to upgrade for quite a while for very little extra cost.

If the price difference between the 6500 and 6600 is that small for you and you're getting an aftermarket cooler, definitely go for it. I was assuming you'd use the stock cooler, but with an aftermarket one you'll have no trouble hitting the CPU's Turbo Boost clocks which are a fair bit higher on the 6600 than on the 6500.

 

[n0ns3ns3]

Sounds like a practical choice here is the price in Germany, should be very close to yours:
PCPartPicker part list / Price breakdown by merchant

CPU: Intel Core i5-6600K 3.5GHz Quad-Core Processor (€240.02 @ Amazon Deutschland)
CPU Cooler: CRYORIG M9i 48.4 CFM CPU Cooler (€33.00)
Motherboard: Gigabyte GA-Z170N-WIFI Mini ITX LGA1151 Motherboard (€133.01 @ Amazon Deutschland)
Memory: G.Skill Ripjaws V Series 16GB (2 x 8GB) DDR4-2400 Memory (€68.99 @ Amazon Deutschland)
Storage: OCZ TRION 150 240GB 2.5" Solid State Drive (€63.90 @ Amazon Deutschland)
Storage: Seagate SV35.5 1TB 3.5" 7200RPM Internal Hard Drive (€61.03 @ Mindfactory)
Video Card: Zotac GeForce GTX 1060 6GB Mini Video Card (€286.99 @ Amazon Deutschland)
Case: Cooler Master Storm Scout 2 Advanced ATX Mid Tower Case (€79.00)
Power Supply: Corsair RMx 550W 80+ Gold Certified Fully-Modular ATX Power Supply (€99.00)
Optical Drive: LG GH24NSC0 DVD/CD Writer (€14.59 @ Amazon Deutschland)
Other: EVGA GTX 1060 SC GAMING
Total: €1079.53
Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available
Generated by PCPartPicker 2016-07-26 22:08 CEST+0200

I have changed it only a bit (ignore the memory change if you like) to make it capable of overclocking (K CPU + Z170 mother board).
You might find a cheaper (around 100euro) Z170 MB.
Overclocking is not mandatory, but very nice to have and really not complicated - you even have software provided by manufacturers to do so. It can give you 15-25% CPU performance boost in case of need. that equals to 2-3 generations (2-4 years) improvement on intel CPUs since Core introduction.
Regarding the video card - 326 is kinda expensive, I put a Zotac card as an example of what it supposed to cost. And it will perform the same as the one you selected. Personally, I'd go for the EVGA card i put in "other" - they have best warranty and service. Also the do their products very well.
GL

 

[logainofhades]

If you're gonna go with the mid-range GPU go for an aftermarket (e.g. Sapphire Nitro) Rx 480. It's just as capable as the 1060 in DX11 but more future-proof due to the considerable performance gain from DX12 and Vulkan.

I would have agreed, on the RX 480, but the titles the OP is playing, specifically the Blizzard ones, heavily favor Nvidia.

 

[cosmopollo]

If you're gonna go with the mid-range GPU go for an aftermarket (e.g. Sapphire Nitro) Rx 480. It's just as capable as the 1060 in DX11 but more future-proof due to the considerable performance gain from DX12 and Vulkan.

I would have agreed, on the RX 480, but the titles the OP is playing, specifically the Blizzard ones, heavily favor Nvidia.

You´ve mentioned this before and it´s not the first time I´ve heard it. How much of a difference are we talking here? A difference of 5 FPS or a difference of 15?

Picking a card is so hard!

@n0ns3ns3 the card you've mentioned is still €335 here! Also, if I may ask a side question: what's the difference between a mini like this and a regular, besides size? Also, will any card with '1060' in it do? I've found a Asus TURBO-GTX1060-6G for €300.

 

[n0ns3ns3]

You´ve mentioned this before and it´s not the first time I´ve heard it. How much of a difference are we talking here? A difference of 5 FPS or a difference of 15?

Picking a card is so hard!

@n0ns3ns3 the card you've mentioned is still €335 here! Also, if I may ask a side question: what's the difference between a mini like this and a regular, besides size? Also, will any card with '1060' in it do? I've found a Asus TURBO-GTX1060-6G for €300.

Here is the thing - you want axial cooler (like in Gigabyte and Zotaca and EVGA and other Asus cards). This specific card has "blower cooler". While there is a use for them, they are generally louder and keep the card at higher temperatures.
I showed you how much this card supposed to cost, they are hard to find, and sometimes overpriced. took me 2 weeks to hunt my card for the actual price. It really depends on your willingness to spend 50euro or invest them in something else
As for the RX 480 vs GTX 1060 - there are 3 games that favored RX 480, 2 of them sponsored by AMD
Generally GTX 1060 is ~15% faster, cost the same, run at lower temperature, uses less power, offers better overclock and have some nice SW like Geforce experience and shadowplay.
P.S.
Pay attention - the MB i suggested is mini ITX, you will be better with conventional ATX sized board with 8 power phases.
I know they are out there for 100 euro, just wasn't sure were to look for them in Holland.