After HDD clone the original HDD will not boot. Drive C: and D: is swapped

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kludermor

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Mar 29, 2011
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Hi
I wanted to make a backup of my HDD and therefor used an external Docking and Cloning station. ICY-BOX IB-120CL-U3
After the cloning was done, the clone would not boot, but I could recover to an early restore point using win8.1 advanced recovery options.

But strangely the original HDD would not boot either.
I would prefer not to use the restore point, as it is not up to date.

When using CMD under advanced recovery options, I noticed that C: is now reserved for system and D: is the partition containing all files. But how can I swap back.
I have tried:
Automatic recovery 3 times
bootrec.exe /fixmbr
bootrec.exe /fixboot
bootsect.exe /nt60 all /force
but C: and D: stays swapped and the computer won't boot.

I have only one HDD in the PC. Win8.1 is retail version.
I have access to a Paragon recovery disk and the Win8.1 install disk. I can plug the HDD in an external drive bay and get access to all files.

Could someone please help, since google is not giving an answer?
Many hours are lost if not recovered. I know I should make a backup.... But that was kind of what I was trying 🙁
Please help! (Did I say that already?)

Oh! And why did this thing happen? I only put two HDD in a cloning station in correct order and returned the HDD to the same PC after operation was complete.
 
Solution
Tom Tancredi
The security in Vista through 8 all prevent this sort of process unless your using BIT level copying, which is both very long to do and still not 100% reliable. Any other attempt will cause errors, some weird (like yours) because the 'security' built in is actually 'GOD' over the computer and not you (even in Administrator count is only Power User now). So when you attempt to access the files, especially when using a software solution, the OS doesn't hand over control even to Administrator to do things like this. That is why the ONLY known 100% solutions is using SysPrep to do 'cloning' of Windows now.

At this point because of.. things as they are, I believe your ONLY solution would be to wipe with DBAN the HDD and do a factory...
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The security in Vista through 8 all prevent this sort of process unless your using BIT level copying, which is both very long to do and still not 100% reliable. Any other attempt will cause errors, some weird (like yours) because the 'security' built in is actually 'GOD' over the computer and not you (even in Administrator count is only Power User now). So when you attempt to access the files, especially when using a software solution, the OS doesn't hand over control even to Administrator to do things like this. That is why the ONLY known 100% solutions is using SysPrep to do 'cloning' of Windows now.

At this point because of.. things as they are, I believe your ONLY solution would be to wipe with DBAN the HDD and do a factory install. All the 'old tricks' you tried to do 'broke' and 'confused' the system to the point now it isn't viable (as you see).
 
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Solution
Kind of hoped someone would chirp in with an easy solution 🙁 Well guess not. I will make use of the system restore point so I don't have to start all over but only loose 3-4 hours of setups

@Tom: Thanks for the reply.
Do you know if a ghost image made with paragon will give same bad results? Or do I have to SysPrep before? I just like to have a fresh backup of my system, that I can revert to when everything starts to slow down. The computer is used by many kids. And they sure know how to make a mess if I don't block all privileges. The sysprep thing is giving me some setup again. (Not much. But...)
 
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Yeah Ghost and all other solutions don't work (and actually Ghost is by Symantec actually).
No SysPrep is very complicated and wouldn't provide the solution your really seeking either, especially with all the device drivers and patches weekly issued now.

That said, per Microsoft for Windows 8, if you use the RESTORE function in Windows itself that can reimage your Windows without losing Data, but you always need to restore the Applications.
As noted here http://windows.microsoft.com/en-us/windows-8/restore-refresh-reset-pc

Now the best 'solution' is to make sure OneDrive is seeing your data (if your worried about pictures, documents, etc.) so when you do a restore of Windows it would pull from OneDrive the way 'things looked' but again not applications.

Being a parent I know what your saying, but ultimately you need to do a few things
1) you should block privileges so your mindful of what they are and aren't doing. Windows 8 comes with a 'okay' Adult limiter for children even to the point you can restrict hours of a day they can be on and so on.
2) Use the basics and weekly to monthly just 'clean and fix' it as I have to do for all our computers:

Did you install all Windows Updates? Including OPTIONAL except BING? Check them and repeat till ALL are installed.

Download and run Slim Drivers, install all the latest updates but you don't need to reboot until you do the last update

Go to www.filehippo.com
Download Malwarebytes do a CUSTOM scan and select your drives to do a full system scan (it does NOT do this by 'default' and AV doesn't pick up alot of malware) - this resolved almost ALL other similiar posts to date as most had Malware the AV didn't pick up.
Remove whatever AV your using and download AVIRA, AVG, Comodo or Panda and do a CUSTOM scan and select your drives to do a full system scan (it does NOT do this by 'default') - this repeatedly has resolved alot of people issue relying on MS Essentials.
Repeat the AV/Malware scans till the system comes up clean.

Download and run SPECCY, copy and paste the first tab to show your idle temps

Open Computer, Can Air dust out the bunnies and use paint brush on the vents, coolers, fans, etc.


Lastly, TOTALLY FORGET ANYTHING YOU KNOW ABOUT XP, it doesn't mean squat now (Microsoft knows better than you / me 😛 ) in Vista/7/8 world.
 
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Thank you again. I have begun a long journey with sysprep. I'm reading a lot. It sure seems more complicated for win8.1 than on win7. But as far as I can read, it does let me keep installed settings and custom programs.
I'm glad its not my own main PC, as the risk of failure during sysprep is an issue if not set up correct.
 
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With respect to your initial post in which you described the problem you encountered re a disk-cloning operation that apparently ran amok, resulting in a corruption of the source disk, I can only say that I feel your pain.

While it's not terribly unusual that for one reason or another a disk-cloning operation will fail in that it does not create a viable clone on the destination disk, it is an extremely rare situation when the source disk is adversely affected in one way or another. While we have run into that situation over the years, it happens so infrequently that we hardly give it a thought when we clone a disk.

But it did happen to you and that's that. Unfortunately I do not have any productive advice to provide you in terms of returning your source disk back to a functional drive as it existed at the time prior to the disk-cloning operation. I suppose invoking System Restore will hopefully provide some relief and I take it you've probably gone that route by now.

I'm not a fan of those "cloning stations" although I'm not familiar with the particular ICY DOCK model you were using. The limited experience we've had with that type of device hasn't been particularly positive re their disk-cloning capabilities. I assume the disk-cloning program was provided by the device.

We do use a disk-cloning program routinely & frequently for comprehensive backups of our systems. We wouldn't be without it. In virtually every disk-cloning operation we undertake, the destination drive (the recipient of the clone) is connected either internally in the system (usually where a desktop PC is involved) or connected externally as a USB device. If connected as an external USB device, the destination drive is installed in a USB enclosure or docking station. All in all a rather simple & straightforward connection setup.

I mention all this only to encourage you not to give up on the disk-cloning process for future use as a comprehensive backup system. If you're interested I can provide you with some detailed info on the disk-cloning program we use and why we prefer this particular program.
 
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@ArtPog
Thank you for your reply. I have lost some faith in the cloning operation, but I really need an effective safe way to backup the entire PC and all the setups.
The cloning station is supposed to work without any software. Just insert 2 drives in the slots and clone from source to target. Well... but it didn't.
I would love to hear how you do it.
The sysprep and deployment method is a great way to do it as far as I can read, but its only for experts. And so far I'm stuck at reading about the method and gather my courage to finally do the operation.
 
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The disk-cloning program we have been routinely using for a fair number of years is the Casper program. I recommend the Casper disk-cloning program without reservation. During that time I've probably performed or participated in a few thousand disk-cloning operations with myriad PC systems. I've found the program quite effective with a straightforward design and friendly user interface that makes it easy-to-use even for inexperienced users. I've worked with many different disk-cloning programs and have found Casper to be superior to all of them.

The chief advantage of the Casper program - and it's a substantial one - is that it performs as a comprehensive backup system that a user can employ on a day-to-day basis should he/she choose. That's because of its extraordinarily fast disk-cloning speed when used on a routine/frequent basis (as the program should be used).

Casper contains a feature the developer titles "SmartClone" which allows the program to basically sense only the changes made in the system from one disk-cloning operation to the next one. This results in effectively speeding up the disk-cloning process from one operation to the next one. I generally clone my systems every few days - sometimes daily - and more times than not it takes me only a couple of minutes - frequently less than a minute - to complete the disk-cloning operation. Naturally the volume of data that's cloned, the user's system, the types of drives involved in the disk-cloning process will all have a bearing on the expenditure of time to complete the disk-cloning process.

As an example, just before composing this post, I cloned one of my SSDs containing total data of 135 GB. I had previously cloned that drive five days ago. While I hadn't made major changes in the system over that period of time I had done some housekeeping, i.e., modified, added, deleted a few programs, etc. - more or less the kinds of system/program changes a typical PC user would undertake. It took me about 50 seconds to clone the contents of that disk to another internally-connected HDD in my desktop machine. Had the source disk been a HDD rather than an SSD it would probably have taken a few seconds more, but probably still under a minute. If both the source & destination drives were HDD the disk-cloning operation would have taken somewhat longer. In any event, I think you can appreciate what an incentive this "operational speed" is for a user to maintain up-to-date comprehensive backups of his/her system, knowing that the expenditure of time to accomplish such will be generally trifling.

As I have stressed, the program functions best and its true value is only realized when it is used routinely & frequently as a comprehensive backup tool.

The cost of the program is $49.99. AFAIK, it can be obtained only through download from the developer's website...http://www.fssdev.com
In my opinion the $49.99 expenditure pales in insignificance when compared with the benefits derived.

There is a 30-day trial version of the Casper program available at...
https://www.fssdev.com/products/casper/trial/

The trial version is slightly crippled in that it doesn't contain the "partition resizing" capability that the commercial version has. As an example, let's say the source disk is a 500 GB drive and contains 310 GB of total data and the destination disk is a 1 TB drive. The trial edition program will create a partition of 500 GB on the destination disk containing, of course, the 310 GB of data, however the remaining disk space on the 1 TB disk will be unallocated. So as you can see it's practically a inconsequential "restriction" since it's simple to utilize Disk Management to extend the 500 GB partition to encompass the entire available disk space of the 1 TB disk in this example. Other than that rather minor restriction the trial edition will give one an accurate picture of the commercial version.

In terms of a backup system I think we would both agree that there's nothing better for a PC user to have other than a bit-for-bit up-to-date copy of one's system that contains the COMPLETE contents of that system including the OS, all programs, and all of the user's precious data residing on his or her day-to-day working drive. So that in the event that drive becomes unbootable or dysfunctional for any reason or becomes mechanically/electrically defective, users will have at hand a true copy of their once fully functional drive where ALL the data is immediately accessible and no "recovery" process is needed to completely restore their systems virtually immediately. This can be relatively easy to achieve through the use of the right disk-cloning program.

Anyway, if your interest has been piqued, give the Casper 30-day trial version a go.

 
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Thanks for info on Casper. But I already bought Paragon 14. And I don't need the incremental backups. I need a fresh install with all my setups I can revert to when something is not working as intended. I have no important data stored on the PC only lots of programs and games with different setups.

When I sysprep the PC, can I then make a clone of the drive with paragon (or other disc image software) and use this to restore my PC?
I have read about sysprep and WINPE but I have now read 3-4 different articles, and the process and commands are not the same. There are similarities but they all involve lots of commands written in WINPE's command window.
A clone made with Paragon after the sysprep process seems a lot simpler.
 
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Just some final brief comments re this issue...

1. Understand that the Casper disk-cloning program does not create "incremental backups". It creates a fully-functional clone of the source drive with no "incremental" files. A clone is a clone is a clone.

2. You indicate your primary need is for the disk-cloning program to restore the system to its previous functional state after the system has malfunctioned because a program just installed or some system configuration change has caused this malfunction or corruption of the system. We continually use Casper for this purpose.

As an example, say, (as in your situation) you've been fiddling around with that Sysprep tool and you've learned (as thousands, millions?) of other users before you that it can be a nightmare to use in order to accomplish your objective. So now you want to revert your system to its previous state. If prior to invoking the Sysprep process you used Casper to clone your drive to your usual destination disk you would then have at hand a precise copy of your "good" system. And you could then either use the cloned disk as your boot disk or (more usually) clone back the contents of the cloned disk to your day-to-day working boot drive.

We do this quite frequently with Casper - usually takes us less than 3 minutes for the disk-cloning operation - frequently less than a minute. We encourage users to follow your example in cloning their working drive prior to making major (and sometimes even minor!) changes in their current system. It's a fabulous safety device.

I would be interested to see how the Paragon 14 program compares with Casper in this regard so please let me know.
 
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@artpog
I successfully managed to restore my system using the sysprep and WINPE with DISM. I now have an image I can revert to should anything go wrong. I'm now able to experiment without loosing any work.
Since the restore process with WINPE required lots of commands in CMD and DISKPART, I think I would rather prefer the cloning method of the syspreped system, using Casper, Paragon or any other cloning software. But in my case the Paragon software, as I have already bought it.

But during my long read I came upon an automated way of deploying the image using batch files to ease all of the typing. I have 12 computers at work needing regular attending, so the sysprep is a new way for me to distribute all settings and installed programs to all computers at once, and then just type in the WIN8.1 product key on each machine. Brave new world!
Now I'm working on making my backup HDD bootable with WINPE, and having it contain the image, and the batch file for automated install. All the computers got a hot swap HDD tray, so I would like to just plug in the backup HDD in the different computers and type install.

So I got a question: Instead of creating a Bootable USBdrive containing WINPE or Paragon, could I use a HDD instead of the USBdrive and then copy the image to this HDD. Thereby having image and bootprogram on the same unit?
Now I plug in the USBdrive with paragon or WINPE and boot from this and then locate the image on the backup HDD plugged in the hot swap tray.
 
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You will have to run Sysprep before, and if you image with a sector based imaging tool like Ghost, you will capture the entire disk (including partition information). You would be better off using DISM to make an image of only the operating system partition and then deploying it from WinPE with DISM (or a full deployment solution like the Microsoft Deployment Toolkit). With that said, a fresh installation is still likely the easiest and safest route.
 
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No offense, but I would think a "Official Microsoft Representative" wouldn't provide inaccurate information.
Symantec Ghost stop supporting Windows when Vista was released because the methodology it utilized, used the 'hack' technique of elevated administrator rights, which was removed in Vista going forward (as I noted the underlying security system of Windows was completely changed from XP to post-Vista OSes). All other attempts to circumvent the /way/ Vista-forward security locked and denied access to key files (security) were unable in any sector based imaging tools to function, as they would try to /mimic/ the sector caused the OS to review what it saw and fail to load when restored.

The only tools to date which work near or 100% of the time is Microsoft's Sysprep, and very small handful of true bit-level imaging software (usually very expensive and limited to Corporate / Business level budgets). While I had hoped by the time Windows 7 certification (as I am certified) would demonstrate or suggest /Partner/ solutions, that did not change from as I noted. With the way Windows 8.1 Update is now designed, even the Microsoft briefings (please Google the Microsoft Technical briefings) state if Sysprep or a Bit-Level solution is not utilized (aka Corp/Business level solution) the current methodology is the use of OneDrive to VirtualBackup the 'data' which is the most important thing Microsoft customers care about, and then use either the Windows 8 Recovery / Restore methodology from the OEM image (again a tool exclusive to only OEMs) or hand install all the software all over again and OneDrive will auto restore your data.

As said, current Windows OSes do not provide a handy way to 'image' a point 'like Ghost' did, and that sort of process is no longer utilized with the Windows 8 Recovery / Restore methodology.
 
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Yeah basically you have to totally forget anything you know or did under XP when you go post-Vista.
As this is your /job/ I would HIGHLY recommend you invest in the current Windows Deployment course from Microsoft, otherwise you will continue to do a disservice to your employers without the proper knowledge.

In a nutshell the /normal/ method would be to create a baseline series of images, say one for Finance but a different one for Call Center computers. That computer would then be Sysprepped as the /base/ image of only the OS and key specific software. You would /not/ at all include antivirus or patches and such as this increases the baseline image too large.

Then you would place the images on a server under Active Directory (here is a example of how to package out on 2008 edition to desktops https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JRNCgvZs5v4) using policies. Now that has changed as you mentioned with the new Windows Store method and DISM methodologies. These provide the best way to do exactly as you said you did (10 computers) and make sure they address either the policy of how the computer will be used, or the policy of the /user/ of the computer and what it should / shouldn't be able to do. Usually some form of DELL Management tool that accesses or you have previously set the hardware to check PXE first if no OS is found, it would then autoaccess the server and install the OS based on your criteria you push to that machine as I noted above.

While this seems complex (first time it is) it becomes much easier through implementations as you now can work on 10 separate computers automatically rather then wasting time one... machine... at.. a ... time.. setting up each one individually. Again as in my other post, post-Vista installations due to the changes in security prevents the old 'Ghost' method and is rapidly changing (you may want to hold off as Windows10 is to be released any day soon) .
 
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Thanks for all help and comments. The Win8.1 deployment is smooth sailing now. But now my former win7 sysprep and deployment method is failing. I used Paragon before to backup and restore the syspreped win7 disk without any fuzz, but now it fails more than 75% of the time. maybe its time to look at the "Casper" program. Its all up hill.
 
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In the context of deployment, Ghost usually refers to Ghost Solution Suite, the enterprise deployment tool (which is still supported by Symantec), not the backup utility that you are describing.

Sysprep itself is not an imaging tool. You cannot make an image with Sysprep, you can only prepare an environment for a customer or for imaging with it. To image the environment you need an imaging tool like ImageX (Windows Vista and Windows 7) or Deployment Image Servicing and Management (DISM) (Windows 8 and newer). Better yet, you need a deployment solution that incorporates an imaging tool and manages the deployment process, like MDT.
Recovery Images (used by Windows 8.1 Refresh and Reset) are by no means a technology available only to OEMs. You can easily customize your recovery image with RecImg, see How to create a system image to refresh your Windows 8 PC.

 
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Wow month later to reply.... ><

Anyhow, yes large scale (Corp, OEM, etc.) is outside of Tom's Hardware Forums, as you can see the OP is NOT stating how to do so in a Enterprise environment, but is a common home user / geek / nerd trying to overcome the current structure implemented by the changes since Vista was released (in comparison to the same techniques used with XP) which is impossible for the 'average user' to accomplishment.

I think, again, before you speak about a solution you should "know your audience". Your advice was inaccurate to the people your speaking to (OP) and not for 'mainstream' customers.
 
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