Age Of AR Dawning: Meta 2 AR Glasses Now Shipping

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Jeff Fx

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I'll accept a tether, since it allows a larger FOV and more complex apps and games than a self-contained unit can handle, but it would be nice if they could work with the people who make a wireless adapter for the Vive to untether this HMD.
 

bit_user

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Tether is a deal-breaker for many AR apps. This is one thing MS got right, and the tradeoff vs rendering horsepower is probably the main reason why it's so much lower spec than Meta (in terms of resolution, FoV, etc.).

Have you tried that adapter? I'm pretty sure its latency is no better than anything else we've heard about, recently. In other words: too high.
 

problematiq

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The adapter is not using 802.11a/b/g/n/ac it's using 802.11ad (60ghz, 6.75 Gbit/s) it does add latency but so little it's not noticeable.
 

bit_user

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13 ms definitely is a noticeable amount of latency, in VR.

Let me know when you've tried it. That's all I'm saying.
 

SockPuppet

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You have a MAXIMUM of 20 milliseconds from the time the user moves their head, to the time the screen needs to be updated and firing a photon at the user's eye. 20ms for the entire render pipeline. this device adds AT LEAST 10ms to the equation in perfect conditions. That's half of your VR latency budget right there.

Some day, we will have wireless connections from HMD to PC that don't add latency. That day isn't going to be for at least two more years.
 

bit_user

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I'd put money on something before then.

If you can do ATW in the HMD, then that buys you a lot. Since the HMD contains the sensors, it can use the very latest position information.

Beyond that, I think using some simple form of video compression and transmitting one eye at a time would be the next obvious improvements. But these are things you really want to do inside the video card. So, that will require a new generation of GPUs, with a new interface connector. And that is probably at least 2 years away.
 

d_kuhn

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I'm all for more resolution... but I'm skeptical that Meta is going to really match the capabilities that Hololens brings to the table. Even ignoring the crippling tethering problem, there's a lot going on under the hood of hololens, it'll be very interesting to see if the Meta will REALLY outgun it. I've not had a chance to play with Meta so am interested to hear what users think... but the demos I've seen online completely lack the sense of 'connectedness' to the outside world that is inherent in Hololens. The display tech they use also seems like it's going to be limited. It has resolution but it appears to be bouncing the images off a polarized film to the eye - that's going to result in a 'less dense' image. It'll be great at semi-transparent objects... but it will struggle with opaque objects. Hololens also struggles with opaque when the background is very bright but is MUCH better than the other AR approaches I've tried (that use polarizers). In any case... very cool that there's competition, I think AR is AT LEAST as interesting as VR... and competition is always a good thing.
 

John_561

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13 thousandths of a second is noticeable to you? What, are you frickin Data from STtNG that you notice that little of a time parcel? XD Happy NY all. <3

 

bit_user

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You don't perceive it as a delay between action and event. It's perceived at a sub-conscious level. When latency gets too high, VR becomes nauseating to the user.

The reason for making you feel sick is that a lot of poisons, in the natural world, cause a similar delay between movement and perception. So, the brain detects this and triggers your body to vomit the poisonous thing you probably just ate.

Unfortunately, that evolutionary benefit works against us on laggy VR systems.

BTW, what we're talking about is not 13 ms of absolute latency, but 13 ms of additional latency, on top of what the VR system already had. That's how long it takes to transmit a frame @ the bitrate quoted by problematiq.
 

John_561

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Ahh, thank you for the clarity. I was gonna try Oculus today for the first time but the demo dude wasn't at Best Buy. The rep I talked to said they had to have someone there to keep people from falling and backing into stuff! haha They have Vive at Microcenter and we have one locally so I'm gonna try there next.

 
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