AGP 8X or PCI Express

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I've been a way from the computer building seen for a while and
don't fully understand PCI express. I'm wanting to upgrade my video
card and there are more PCI express cards out there than AGP. Do I need
a new board to run a pci express graphics card? If so then that cuts
$80 bucks off my graphics card upgrade. I was planning to spend around
$300. So then will a $220 pci express card beat a $300 AGP card? I know
there are tons of variations of each but just in general.

Thanks guys
 
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Bitstring <1110581677.597266.118790@l41g2000cwc.googlegroups.com>, from
the wonderful person Mad_Unit <benclark2002@hotmail.com> said
>I've been a way from the computer building seen for a while and
>don't fully understand PCI express. I'm wanting to upgrade my video
>card and there are more PCI express cards out there than AGP. Do I need
>a new board to run a pci express graphics card?

Yes. And possibly a new CPU and memory, depending on what you currently
have.

>If so then that cuts
>$80 bucks off my graphics card upgrade. I was planning to spend around
>$300. So then will a $220 pci express card beat a $300 AGP card? I know
>there are tons of variations of each but just in general.

No.

Well actually 'maybe', since AGP cards are now getting to be
expensive/rare/specialty items, but IMO the reason the PCIE card will
win is because it's cheaper (because the volume is supposed to be
higher, of because the manufacturers are trying to kick-start sales, or
whatever), not because PCIE is a magic solution to anything that an AGP
card was suffering from.

Each to their own, but I'd never spend $300 for a graphics card. That's
too close to the bleeding edge, and you know it'll be $150 or so for the
same thing before you've got much of anything that actually needs it.

--
GSV Three Minds in a Can
SC recommends the use of Firefox; Get smart, or get assimilated.
 
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agp wont be rare or specality for years. 90% of the market still uses agp
wont go away for at least a year or so.
"GSV Three Minds in a Can" <GSV@quik.clara.co.uk> wrote in message
news:bYthkbDTgjMCFARw@from.is.invalid...
> Bitstring <1110581677.597266.118790@l41g2000cwc.googlegroups.com>, from
> the wonderful person Mad_Unit <benclark2002@hotmail.com> said
>>I've been a way from the computer building seen for a while and
>>don't fully understand PCI express. I'm wanting to upgrade my video
>>card and there are more PCI express cards out there than AGP. Do I need
>>a new board to run a pci express graphics card?
>
> Yes. And possibly a new CPU and memory, depending on what you currently
> have.
>
>>If so then that cuts
>>$80 bucks off my graphics card upgrade. I was planning to spend around
>>$300. So then will a $220 pci express card beat a $300 AGP card? I know
>>there are tons of variations of each but just in general.
>
> No.
>
> Well actually 'maybe', since AGP cards are now getting to be
> expensive/rare/specialty items, but IMO the reason the PCIE card will win
> is because it's cheaper (because the volume is supposed to be higher, of
> because the manufacturers are trying to kick-start sales, or whatever),
> not because PCIE is a magic solution to anything that an AGP card was
> suffering from.
>
> Each to their own, but I'd never spend $300 for a graphics card. That's
> too close to the bleeding edge, and you know it'll be $150 or so for the
> same thing before you've got much of anything that actually needs it.
>
> --
> GSV Three Minds in a Can
> SC recommends the use of Firefox; Get smart, or get assimilated.
 
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On 11 Mar 2005 14:54:37 -0800, "Mad_Unit" <benclark2002@hotmail.com> wrote:

>I've been a way from the computer building seen for a while and
>don't fully understand PCI express. I'm wanting to upgrade my video
>card and there are more PCI express cards out there than AGP. Do I need
>a new board to run a pci express graphics card?

Yes it's a new interconnect standard with completely different signalling.

> If so then that cuts
>$80 bucks off my graphics card upgrade. I was planning to spend around
>$300. So then will a $220 pci express card beat a $300 AGP card? I know
>there are tons of variations of each but just in general.

No, for any given GPU, the performance is still much the same between AGP
and PCIe. The latest GPUs are natively PCIe and to make an AGP card,
require a bridge chip which increases the price by ~$30. Also note that
the AGP versions require auxiliary 12V power from a drive power
connector... fugly!

--
Rgds, George Macdonald
 
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Bitstring <QxuYd.35454$Im.13979@okepread01>, from the wonderful person
Anthony <aevansjr3@cox.net> said
>agp wont be rare or specality for years. 90% of the market still uses agp
>wont go away for at least a year or so.

1) So I exercised a slight amount of hyperbole. Just go and look at
recent graphics cards, and you'll see that PCI-E is what the market is
pushing.

2) Your newsreader is broken and fails to trim signatures properly.
There is a fix available.

--
GSV Three Minds in a Can
SC recommends the use of Firefox; Get smart, or get assimilated.
 
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Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.chips (More info?)

Its pushing but wont be much of a push took AGP years to take over PCI and
it will take PCI express years to take over agp. Look at the 6600 and 6200
series being released to agp when they didnt really want to. Most of the
market is agp and will be for awhile. Now this time 2006 or 7 I could see
getting a PCI express mothearboard but till then AGP is still the way to go
performances between the 2 right now is negilible. (sp) so I say stick wtih
AGP for now.



"GSV Three Minds in a Can" <GSV@quik.clara.co.uk> wrote in message
news:dXEQ3JF3CtMCFAwq@from.is.invalid...
> Bitstring <QxuYd.35454$Im.13979@okepread01>, from the wonderful person
> Anthony <aevansjr3@cox.net> said
>>agp wont be rare or specality for years. 90% of the market still uses agp
>>wont go away for at least a year or so.
>
> 1) So I exercised a slight amount of hyperbole. Just go and look at
> recent graphics cards, and you'll see that PCI-E is what the market is
> pushing.
>
> 2) Your newsreader is broken and fails to trim signatures properly. There
> is a fix available.
>
> --
> GSV Three Minds in a Can
> SC recommends the use of Firefox; Get smart, or get assimilated.
 
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On Sat, 12 Mar 2005 11:21:27 +0000, GSV Three Minds in a Can
<GSV@quik.clara.co.uk> wrote:

>Bitstring <QxuYd.35454$Im.13979@okepread01>, from the wonderful person
>Anthony <aevansjr3@cox.net> said
>>agp wont be rare or specality for years. 90% of the market still uses agp
>>wont go away for at least a year or so.
>
>1) So I exercised a slight amount of hyperbole. Just go and look at
>recent graphics cards, and you'll see that PCI-E is what the market is
>pushing.

That depends on which end of the market you look at - at the very top end,
there is no shortage of AGP... because there's a bunch of gamers out there
who have to upgrade at every notch. In the mid-range, say FX6600GT, AGP
was slow to get started but it is easly found now at a slight price
premium. At the low end, which implies fresh builds, AGP is pretty much
dead.

>2) Your newsreader is broken and fails to trim signatures properly.
>There is a fix available.

I don't know if later versions of mine have been fixed but I'm not even
going to bother to look - upgrades are often too painful.:)

--
Rgds, George Macdonald
 
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On Sat, 12 Mar 2005 08:13:03 -0600, "Anthony" <aevansjr3@cox.net> wrote:

>Its pushing but wont be much of a push took AGP years to take over PCI and
>it will take PCI express years to take over agp. Look at the 6600 and 6200
>series being released to agp when they didnt really want to. Most of the
>market is agp and will be for awhile. Now this time 2006 or 7 I could see
>getting a PCI express mothearboard but till then AGP is still the way to go
>performances between the 2 right now is negilible. (sp) so I say stick wtih
>AGP for now.

Using the life history of dying technology is no way to forecast the future,
son.

You're way off.
 
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>> ... it will take PCI express years to take over agp.

> daytripper <day_trippr@REMOVEyahoo.com> wrote:
> Using the life history of dying technology is no way
> to forecast the future, ...

Besides, you have to look at all the historical
examples.
- PCI: still with us
- ISA: took many years to go
- VLB: gone in a flash
- EISA: gone even faster than VLB

My guess is that new graphics chips are already going
onto PCIe first, then (maybe) being back-ported to AGP.
Within 18 months, the backporting will cease. Within
36 months, AGP will be off the market.

--
Regards, Bob Niland mailto:name@ispname.tld
http://www.access-one.com/rjn email4rjn AT yahoo DOT com
NOT speaking for any employer, client or Internet Service Provider.
 
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Bitstring <opsni839d6ft8z8r@news.individual.net>, from the wonderful
person Bob Niland <email4rjn@yahoo.com> said
>>> ... it will take PCI express years to take over agp.
>
>> daytripper <day_trippr@REMOVEyahoo.com> wrote:
>> Using the life history of dying technology is no way
>> to forecast the future, ...
>
>Besides, you have to look at all the historical
>examples.
> - PCI: still with us
> - ISA: took many years to go
> - VLB: gone in a flash
> - EISA: gone even faster than VLB

You missed MCA!

>My guess is that new graphics chips are already going
>onto PCIe first,

They are .. like I said, the makers as busy backing PCIE big time.

> then (maybe) being back-ported to AGP.
>Within 18 months, the backporting will cease. Within
>36 months, AGP will be off the market.

I sort of doubt that, given the after market size .. although I guess
PCI graphics cards (not PCI-e) could cover quite a bit of that. What I
=do= believe will happen (already is) is that AGP cards will be at a
considerable premium to the PCI-E versions, and with a much reduced
selection of makers, chipsets, and performance options.

--
GSV Three Minds in a Can
SC recommends the use of Firefox; Get smart, or get assimilated.
 
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Using a finger dipped in purple ink, GSV Three Minds in a Can <GSV@quik.clara.co.uk> scribed:

>>Besides, you have to look at all the historical
>>examples.
>> - PCI: still with us
>> - ISA: took many years to go
>> - VLB: gone in a flash
>> - EISA: gone even faster than VLB
>
>You missed MCA!

MCI??






--

The truth is out there,

but it's not interesting enough for most people.
 
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>>> Besides, you have to look at all the historical
>>> examples.
>>> - PCI: still with us
>>> - ISA: took many years to go
>>> - VLB: gone in a flash
>>> - EISA: gone even faster than VLB

>> You missed MCA!

Indeed I did.

> Never anonymous Bud <newskat@katxyzkave.
> MCI??

No. MCA - MicroChannel Architecture. IBM's proposed
replacement for ISA. It competed with EISA and VLB.
All three lost out to PCI.

MCA was one of IBM's several initiatives in the PS/2
timeframe that were intended to both evolve the PC
infrastructure, and recapture IP control of that
infrastructure.

That MCA is unheard of today, and the IBM-Lenova deal,
tells you how that all worked out.

--
Regards, Bob Niland mailto:name@ispname.tld
http://www.access-one.com/rjn email4rjn AT yahoo DOT com
NOT speaking for any employer, client or Internet Service Provider.
 
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Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.chips (More info?)

Anthony wrote:

>Its pushing but wont be much of a push took AGP years to take over PCI and
>it will take PCI express years to take over agp.

But PCI is not a "video bus" like AGP is. It's a general-purpose bus,
and it be with us long after AGP fades to oblivion.

The long life of PCI cannot be used to predict a long life for AGP.
 
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