AGP...no more in future?

Crashman

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While we can't be certain, it does look that way. AGP cards should stick around a long time on the low end though.

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G

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Do you think this means the end of all the PCi card. If so those this means every DELL/Hp/IBm will come with some AGP?
Id like to see PCI vid card disapear but they serve their purpose as long as these major manufacturer dont include Agp in every PC...
 

cdpage

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I guess we'll have for a time some boards the will have PCI, AGP, PCI-X, PCI-Express maybe even all on one board...

i would guess that those boards would retain there value for some time.



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Crashman

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Low demand will limit choices for PCI cards even further. But as more companies drop PCI products the rest will pick up their customers. AGP cards will be around but probably only up to the midrange at first, and only on the low end in a couple years. The 9800XT will probably be as good as AGP gets.

Dell uses AGP slots on some boards and not on others. Same with HP and IBM. FEWER of these will include AGP from this point onward, they'll move from PCI to PCI-Express. Probably future major brand cheap systems will have no PCI-Ex x16 slots for performance cards though, just x1 slots for modems, etc. And there will probably be low end x1 video cards replacing most of the low end PCI cards.

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Crashman

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If Omid has his way we'll all see slotless miniboxes that aren't upgradeable.

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Don't most of the initial PCI-EX slots have the backwards capability of PCI (they look like PCI-X slots).

I wouldn't be surprised if they keep 1 or 2 of these slots on all mainstream boards for the short term. That way you get the maximum PCI-EX slots accesible through the back, but also maintain some backwards compatibility.

Also aren't most MOBOs supposed to come with both 16XG PCI-EX and 1 AGP slot? From all the news/previews/rumours I've read so far that seems to be the case.

Can't wait! I want my Socket 939 mobo with all the goodies right now! :cool:


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Nights_L

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cuz i'm thinking of buying a new card, there is no problem for me to wait, however if future cards won't be based on AGP, then i wish to buy it now..
looks like wait it's a better idea?
 
The current situation appears that the R420 will be AGP based, and the R423 (to follow a month or two later) will be PCI-EX based. They will likely provide another High end AGP refresh (the R450?) before moving to all PCI-EX. The mid-level and low end cards I would expect to keep AGP options 'til at least 2005.

Of course beyond the R420, that's just a guess.


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Crashman

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No. But I've seen mockups of boards that had PCI and x1 brackets for the same slot position. Remembering boards that had PCI and ISA sharing a slot position as well.

No, PCI-EX and AGP are not compatable technologies, I've read SiS is looking for a workaround.

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Crashman

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I don't know what the future will hold, that is as far as when companies will drop the old products. But if you build now, your PC will be new enough to live through the entire transition when you'll have to replace it when you want an upgrade. And if you build later, you'll be able to get a discount on the old technology perhaps.

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Nights_L

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get a discount on the old technology
mmmm... :eek: now i wonder if i should wait or not
i'm looking toward Radeon9600 (no pro), cuz there is no fan on it (i want my pc be as silent as possible..)
but after i read VGA ChartIII, i saw there is a big performance drop from Radeon9600np to Radeon9600Pro, so i'm wondering if i should get that or not, although 9600np is still faster than 8500(which is what i have) in most of the benchmarks
 

Crashman

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Get the 9600 Pro and send it to me, I'll attach a large passive sink (large enough not to require a fan) and send it back. The Pro runs very cool on minimal cooling thanks to it's low energy draw.

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Crashman

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Yes! Very powerful throw away computers equiped with the best graphics for a specific purpose and nothing else! And when the system no longer cuts it, you can buy another! w00t!

IMO we (as in, those who upgrade our own machines) will always need a graphics slot and one other slot minimum. And since you want at least 1 extra slot, current boards would require 1 AGP and 2 PCI slots minimum. That's why I fight the SFF/Flex craze as I do. But with double-wide graphics cards being an option, that means 3 PCI slots using current technology. Double wide cards won't even FIT in an SFF box. With PCI1 being covered with a card, that means 3PCI slots provide 2 usable slots, which means for the enthusiast nothing smaller than MicroATX will do!

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Nights_L

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how large? 4/5 of my PCI slots are already in used..is that gonna occupy one first PCI slot?
but thanks a lot, that's a good idea..thinking about it ^^
another thing is that, i'm not a hardcore gamer, my current video card 8500 serves me perfectly, except that it's making noise.., so i guess the 9600np should do the job as well..
 
You could get an Sapphire R9600PRo Ultimate Edition, it uses the passive Zalman heatsink. They also make an XT version. In case you wanted the performance and quiet. Prices aren't the 'cheapest' but not bad. And if money is no object then I'd suggest and R9800Pro or XT version of the same card. But you say you're not a gamer so the R9600Pro version should give you nice benifits.


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Double wide cards won't even FIT in an SFF box.
Except the HORNET. But I'm not sure if that is a Micro ATX or not.

It's a nice little cube with room to expand, but they still have the PSU issue. Should change a bit with the 350watt AMD64 model (difference of draw between A64 and P4/XP isn't 100 watts so should allow some overhead as long as it's a relatively 'good' PSU). I like the size, but personally I would prefer a LARGE cube (bigger than a 36 pack) for airflow and room to grow.

The BTX format should change this a fair amount. And the addition of PCI-EX will allow us to 'stack' connectors.


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Crashman

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Hehe, you don't want to use the first slot anyway, it makes your card hot. Especially if it's passively cooled.

Last I looked a good, full featured 9600 cost $135, while the 9600 Pro cost $150. Performance gain to the Pro is nearly 30%!

But even the Pro can be passively cooled. It just needs a larger sink. I would have used a Pentium 1 sink on it, modified slightly to fit the card.

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ghent123

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From what I have read so far about PCI-Express, AGP and Express can't be on the same board.
Quote from http://www.pcstats.com/

"To further depreciate the value of your very expensive AGP cards, PCI-Express X16 and 8x AGP slots cannot coexist on the same motherboard. That's okay, considering ATI and NVIDIA will have essentially stopped producing high-end AGP graphics cards by the end of Q2:2004 anyway..."

I'm unable to find any info from NVIDIA's or ATI's web site to confirm this, but I can highly see this coming.

I'm sure PCI-Express is going to do the same thing as AGP did for video card industry when it first came out. Didn't take long at all for most people to hope onto the wagon. The only thing that I believe will be the hard part to over coming is the upgrading to a new MB. Since AMD and Intel both have new CPU's out or coming out with a new Pin size. I believe a lot of people are going to wait to upgrade to a new system because of this, which could hurt the computer industry or give it a nice kick in the behind which has been needed for some time.

It's just how much is people willing to spend for a new MB, CPU and Video card at the same time. Don't forget about RAM, most of the new CPU coming out need at least DDR400 to run like people want to. It's a little $$$ to get all these parts at one time. Might as well buy a new system.
 

Nights_L

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yeah, that's what I learned from VGA Chart III, performance gain is 30%
I just think of it, is that possible to cool my 8500 passively with only a larger sink as well?
 

Crashman

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Yes it is, as long as it's not an All In Wonder card.

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Crashman

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Some were glued, others pinned. If there are no pins at the edge you have to force it and glue on another.

I'm very good at this!

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