AGP Platform Analysis, Part 1: New Cards, Old System

Zephyn

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Awsome topic! :D There are still quite a few people running around on these old AGP rigs (me included) :oops:

Actually sadly this test setup is almost identical to my setup at home
2800+ Barton, 1.5 gig of high pro ram (well at the time anyways) and I am running the 7800 GS because I got it for a killer price.

This is a good review if you are holding off on upgrading until the 64 Vista has some external support and DX10 is in a good swing and there is a better market for DX10 cards.

I think that a small bottleneck is also the ram in the case of this review though. I am testing out Vanguard SOH (yes the NDA dropped) and I found the game nearly unplayable on my setup without that extra bit of RAM. With the extra ram the game is quite playable and I get simmilar framrates to everyone else with all setups. (Yes I understand that is because the games code is in about as good of shape as Rosie from the view)

So I am able to play newer titles in 1280x1024 just fine with the review setup nothing wrong with this atm.

anyways just my 2 cents 8)
 

Slobogob

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Nice article and a much needed one since, as mentioned, the bottlenecking is a common topic of discussions. I´m already eager to read Part 2.
 

CNeufeld

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We see what the new generation of AGP cards can do for an Athlon XP 2500
I think whoever put the graphs in the article was drunk, though. :) All the pages I looked at had the high resolution graph at the top of the page, where they were talking about the low resolution results. And vice-versa.

Clint
 

AgentJadeD

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Im curious to see what test setups they are going to use for the high end CPUs. Cause when I upgraded from a P4 2.67 to the Core2Duo E6600 my FPS jumped almost 40%. Im still running AGP, and have a PCI-E 16x slot but running at 4x. So I think I might make the upgrade to a AGP card again.
 

Datman

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Radeon X1950 PROOnline Price: ~$240
Codename: R580, 90 nanometer technology :?:
36 pixel shaders, 8 vertex shaders, 12 texture units, 12 raster operations processors
256-bit external memory bus (512-bit internal ring bus)
575 MHz core, 690 MHz DDR (1380 MHz effective) memory
80 nm


Wouldn't of minded seeing the European / Australian Gainwood 7800GS+ (20 or 24 PP) in the tests.
Maybe in part 2 then.
 

AdmiralSCL

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OH YES. I love this article. I am awaiting my tax monies to get me a 1950pro with 512DDR3. Great card. I would also like to see the gainward cards. But being in the US it is very costly to get those cards. But I would like to see what I am missing.

Great article!!


There MANY AGP users still out there.
 

icepop456

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Is it too much to ask for them to include a recent PCI-E system for comparison? One could argue that some of the games were GPU limited. I understand that is not the case, but it would be nice to have a graph showing what these GPUs are really able to do.
 

sojrner

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I still have my xp2700/AIW9700pro system up and kicking on newer games. Yes, I bought my current system the begining of last year to replace it but I still love my ol' 9700pro. I got that one (the AIW) right when it came out (a few months after the first 9700pro) and it still runs like a top. I do have it oc'd a bit but what a stellar card.

Good to see how that "old" stuff stacks up... Very good info. Well done Cleeve. 8)
 

MickK

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Wouldn't of minded seeing the European / Australian Gainwood 7800GS+ (20 or 24 PP) in the tests.Maybe in part 2 then.
Agreed that BFG 7800 is a pretty crap card, and is only mediocre compared with the competition.

The NVIDIA AGP daddy is the Gainward Bliss (Gainward BLISS GeForce 7800 GS "Goes Like Hell" 512MB GDDR3 TV-Out/Dual DVI - AGP) which has a 7900 GS GPU at 500Mhz and has 512MB of GDDR3 memory at 1400Mhz. Also has 20 shaders over the poor old BFG which only has 16.

If you are going to give it to the ATI card in the review at least put it up against the best NVIDIA AGP card out there, not that piece of dog food that you have used.

You will pay extra for the Gainward but if you want to be able to do some decent gaming on your old AGP rig then you may as will spend the extra 40 pounds for it.

EDIT: added the exact name of the card I was referring to.
 

Talon

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Very interesting article. I should be getting my Sapphire 1950Pro512 any time now, probably today. It will take me a day or two (kids under my feet) to do it but I was thinking of running 2-3 benchmarks of my own just to see what happens.


Zephyn, I'm not sure 100% its the memory limited you completely. Sure 512mb more won't hurt you but look at my setup below. I am in beta for Vanguard as well and its seldom what I'd call smooth. I assume and truly hope a good amount of the remaining beta will be heavy on optimization because as it stands now even a middling system based on their specs seems to chug fairly badly. Of course it doesn't help me that I picked a half-elf character because of the lore and my whole starting area is in perpetual never-ending rain :( I need to try an orc or something LOL.
 

cleeve

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Wouldn't of minded seeing the European / Australian Gainwood 7800GS+ (20 or 24 PP) in the tests.
Maybe in part 2 then.
*sigh*

Me too. I fought hard to get one. They didn't want to send one to north america for some kind of jurisdictional reason.

We're still trying, but I have little hope at this point. :(

In the PCIe side though, I find the X1950 PRO beats the 7900 GS more often than not, so if you folks on the other side of the pond have the choice but the X1950 PRO is notably cheaper it's probably your best bet anyway.
 

Talon

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Have to agree there. I was thinking while reading the article why didn't they try the Mac-daddy of AGP even if it is only sold in europe. Would have still been an interesting inclusion.

I also feel a 3.0Ghz equivalent CPU would have been more appropriate given the cheap and easy upgrades to older CPUs now so that most could probably have that if they hung onto their current system this long. I knew some games would bottleneck on a 2.5. Still a great and interesting article, those are just personal changes I would have made were I able to do such a test.

There is always part 2 though which I'll be anxiously awaiting, although by then I'll have my 1950Pro512 in hand by then. :)
 

Talon

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I see, well I'm sure we're all really appreciative that you tried so hard. A for effort eh?

It was very exciting seeing the Prey and Oblivion tests though. With my higher CPU I imagine I can only do better than that and my 6800GT was struggling on those two games to give me smooth play. I actually set them both aside due to this and when my new card arrives I will surely put both of those games through more playtime again since it will be a better experience.
 

cleeve

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I also feel a 3.0Ghz equivalent CPU would have been more appropriate given the cheap and easy upgrades to older CPUs now so that most could probably have that if they hung onto their current system this long. I knew some games would bottleneck on a 2.5. Still a great and interesting article, those are just personal changes I would have made were I able to do such a test.
Actually, Paul and myself discussed that. I didn't have time, but I wanted to OC the 2500+ to 3200+ and do a full benchmark run.

Just for interest's sake, I did overclock the CPU for a quick FEAR bench just to see, and it didn't make a notable difference.
 

atp777

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We see what the new generation of AGP cards can do for an Athlon XP 2500
I think whoever put the graphs in the article was drunk, though. :) All the pages I looked at had the high resolution graph at the top of the page, where they were talking about the low resolution results. And vice-versa.

Clint

lol, I was wondering about that too. Anyways, I want to see them on a faster proc since I'm running a P4 3.2GHz Northwood FSB800 and Dual Channel DDR400. I'm thinking of getting a 7600GT to replace my crapola 9800SE.
 

Talon

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I also feel a 3.0Ghz equivalent CPU would have been more appropriate given the cheap and easy upgrades to older CPUs now so that most could probably have that if they hung onto their current system this long. I knew some games would bottleneck on a 2.5. Still a great and interesting article, those are just personal changes I would have made were I able to do such a test.
Actually, Paul and myself discussed that. I didn't have time, but I wanted to OC the 2500+ to 3200+ and do a full benchmark run.

Just for interest's sake, I did overclock the CPU for a quick FEAR bench just to see, and it didn't make a notable difference.

Thanks for the info. Hmm wonder if the change in FSB and memory would make any noticable change on the real deal then. Likely it would make little if any. Maybe that means the 1950Pro is truly as far as AGP "should" be pushed if that is the case. A little disheartening but at least I know I'll still get a good boost at 1280x1024 from my old 6800GT in many games. Hopefully if things go well I'll finish that new system build by summer anyway and the wife can inherit my current.
 

Talon

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Oh Cleeve, one more thing that I'm sure many are wondering about. When can we expect Part 2? Not to rush or anything but we'd love to see further info on this hot topic. Thank you again for the work you've done.
 

Datman

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Wouldn't of minded seeing the European / Australian Gainwood 7800GS+ (20 or 24 PP) in the tests.
Maybe in part 2 then.
*sigh*

Me too. I fought hard to get one. They didn't want to send one to north america for some kind of jurisdictional reason.

We're still trying, but I have little hope at this point. :(

In the PCIe side though, I find the X1950 PRO beats the 7900 GS more often than not, so if you folks on the other side of the pond have the choice but the X1950 PRO is notably cheaper it's probably your best bet anyway.
Thanks for trying. 8)
Hope they change their mind, soon.
I'm interested in part 2, the test system will be close to mine this time. :D
Keep up the fine work.

The 7800GS+ 20PP is about $560~$570 Australian, 24PP doesn't show up anymore.
The X1950 Pro is about $340~$350 Aust., much better buy IMO.
We get somewhat shafted Downunder with prices. :evil:
 

Talon

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Good grief, do you get sore after buying something in Australia?

Oh thanks for that clip below. Thats what I'm talking about, the REAL deal, very nice indeed. 8O


To Cleeve:

Thanks for the answer. Now I'm anxious for the month to end. Thanks for making me wish part of my life away ! lol :D
 
I purchased a Powercolor X1950 AGP card from Newegg and when I got it installed I started having random lock up problems on XP 64 bit. I thought it was my install of XP 64 bit so I tried XP 32 bit as a completely fresh install. This also caused random lock ups. The system is an Asus A8V Deluxe, AMD FX-60, 2G ram, Thermaltake Purepower 480 watt ps, Adaptech 19160 SCSI card, Fujitsu SCSI 73G HD. I have been looking for some power specs on the X1950 AGP card to verify that there isn't a problem there but I can't believe that to be an issue. Everything I have tried to troubleshoot the problem points right back at the video card being bad.

I hope no one else is seeing this problem but if you are please send me an email with what you have seen/done to fix it if you did.

Ahnilated.
 

sandok

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Do either the Powercolor or Sapphire AGP 1950 Pro cards offer full HDCP support including the crypto-rom needed? A lot of boards that say they have HDCP support listed in the specs or on the box dont have the crypto-rom so arent fully HDCP compliant.
 

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