Build Advice AIO or DH15?

[eiryh]

Hey there. Next week I am getting all of my pc parts. The only thing I have not yet ordered is the AIO, I got the DH15 in the mail today, but I am ready to send it back if the AIO is the much superior choice. I researched a bunch and even posted in r/pcbuild and I am getting A LOT of mixed replies. Some say Air Cooling is absolutely fine with the i9, some say that it will go insane and always run at 100 degrees. Most people do say that I should get an AIO, never had one before and I am kinda scared of it leaking and wrecking my build.

The build:
GPU: 4080 FE
CPU: 13900k
PSU: be quiet! Straight Power 11 Platinum 1000W
RAM: 32GB DDR5 6000 (2x16GB)
MOTHERBOARD: MSI PRO z790-P DDR5
COOLER: Noctua NH-D15 / DeepCool LS720 360mm (LT is not available)
FAN: Artic F14
CASE: NZXT H7 FLOW
SSD: Samsung 980 Pro 2TB

Use: programming, gaming, streaming and 15000 browser tabs, etc.

 

[Aeacus]

CPU: 13900k

With this CPU, NH-D15 works,
Noctua compatibility: https://ncc.noctua.at/cpus/model/Intel-Core-i9-13900K-1642

However, even when you go with AIO, you still would be running your CPU at 95-100C. <- This is the "norm" with that CPU.

From TH review:

"Raptor Lake exposes the most robust overclocking features and the highest frequency ceilings we've seen with modern chips. We've heard that most units can manage 5.7 GHz all-core p-core overclocks on 360mm AIOs, and we reached 5.5 GHz on Core i7 and 5.6 GHz on Core i9 and i5, all with a 280mm Corsair H115i watercooler. We optimized the voltages carefully, but do note that we often peaked at ~96-98C during stressful applications — right below the 100C throttle point. For reference, we regularly hit 100C at stock settings with our 280mm cooler, as you can see above in the multi-threaded stress test with the Core i9-13900K. However, the chip did regularly hit 5.8 GHz, as advertised, during lightly threaded work (second slide), and we didn't experience nearly as much of a cooling challenge with the Core i7 and i5 models."

Source: https://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/intel-core-i9-13900k-i5-13600k-cpu-review/3

As far as NH-D15 fares, here's nice review with NH-D15 vs several AIOs,
link: http://www.relaxedtech.com/reviews/noctua/nh-d15-versus-closed-loop-liquid-coolers/1

 

[eiryh]

With this CPU, NH-D15 works,
Noctua compatibility: https://ncc.noctua.at/cpus/model/Intel-Core-i9-13900K-1642

However, even when you go with AIO, you still would be running your CPU at 95-100C. <- This is the "norm" with that CPU.

I will absolutely limit the CPU to 253W. Heard that can lower the temps by a pretty good amount. From what I've heard with the limit it doesn't go above 85 degrees and very rarely hits 100 under heavy load. Any truth to that?

 

[bill001g]

Limiting the power and maybe changing some of the other boost settings is how you keep a 13900k in control. After the fact it does not make much difference but if you were considering doing this before you purchased a 13900k you would then need to ask how does the performance of a limited 13900k compare to a lessor priced CPU chip say a 13900 non "K". In a way it is like if you purchased a cpu based on how it runs using liquid nitrogen.

It all depends on what you are doing. It seems most gaming use of a 13900k does not even use a fraction of the cpu capacity the heat never is a issue.

The problem with a 13900k is even if you buy a big 360 aio you still need to be aware of the temps. We need some long term data to see if can actually run a cpu near 100c for years and it not affect the failure rate as the vendors claim.

Best if you monitor for a while and see how often you are hitting max temps doing your normal work load. If it doesn't hit it very often then you likely can just use it. If it hits the temp limits a lot then you need to decide how much performance hit will you actually see if you limit the cpu in a way that it does not hit the max as often.

 

[eiryh]

It all depends on what you are doing. It seems most gaming use of a 13900k does not even use a fraction of the cpu capacity the heat never is a issue.

Does that mean if I don't use maximum CPU load I shouldn't worry about anything or?

I want to get this CPU because I do not upgrade my pc for years and years. This is my first upgrade after 8 years. I would love for my pc to stay capable for as long as possible. I heard that I probably don't "need' the i9 and would be fine with an i7, but to put it blunt, I want the i9 because I will most likely upgrade my GPU once new gen comes out.

 

[bill001g]

If you look at the benchmarks they run on 13900k pretty much only things that attempt to run all cores at max cause the heat. The one they use to overheat a cpu is always blender but that is very much a special case.
Games gain much more from the single core boost rates since they are not very good at using lots of cores. So it is much easier to keep the heat under control when less cores are running at max.

This is purely a money thing. You can just buy a 13900k and make it into a 13900 with power setting in the bios. Then if you ever would need the extra you can change it back to 13900k settings.

After a quick lookup of the cost of a 13900 and 13900k on microcenter even though there is over $100 difference in list price the price they sell them for is $519 and $529 which is basically the same if you ignore that you get a crappy factory cooler with the 13900.

Note the 13900 is actually designed to run with that factory cooler so using better cooling means you can tune the 13900k above the recommended 13900 settings and still keep it well in control.

 

[Phaaze88]

Keep the D15 and get an AIO/CLC(if still desired), that way, you have something to fall back on when the liquid cooler fails, or shows signs of it.

https://www.techpowerup.com/review/deepcool-ls720-aio-360-liquid-cpu-cooler/10.html
Looks like it wasn't as good on their Intel test bed compared to their AMD one, but that's normal; coolers doing better/worse on one platform Vs the other, but almost no one covers it.
Also, the use of proprietary fan connectors will put off some folks.

 

[geofelt]

Much depends on what you plan to do.
If your use is gaming, then only a few cores will turbo up to the max and will not generate too much heat.
OTOH, if you are an overclocker or you run multithreaded batch apps, you will generate heat that needs to be dissipated.
A curiosity of the 13900K is that it tries to run at 100c.
Intel’s i9-13900K supports Adaptive Boost Technology (ABT), which allows Core i9 processors to dynamically boost to higher all-core frequencies based upon available thermal headroom and electrical conditions. This allows multi-core loads to operate at up to 5.5ghz if the necessary amount of thermal dissipation is there. This feature works in a way that actively seeks high temperatures: If the chip sees that it is running below the 100-degree C threshold, it will increase its performance and power consumption until it reaches the safe 100C limit, thus sustaining higher clocks (and providing better performance) for longer periods.
Here is a study using various levels of coolers:
https://www.tomshardware.com/features/intel-core-13900k-cooling-tested

If your ram has tall heat spreaders, the NH-D15 may be impacted and the NH-D15s would be better.
One thing I like about air is that it addresses the cooling needs of the motherboard vrm's and the graphics card.

And, there is a required firmware level to keep the 2tb Samsung 980 from premature wear.
Run Samsung magician to check and apply the firmware update if necessary.

Lastly, for such a top end build, why not spring for the I9-13900KS?
About $130 more.
https://www.newegg.com/intel-core-i9-13900ks-core-i9-13th-gen/p/N82E16819118446?quicklink=true

It is a well binned processor and should be able to perform better at any given power level.

 

[Aeacus]

Overall, i'd go with NH-D15 and limit the CPU wattage. Depending on the use of a CPU, you could limit it to 125W/200W/300W, depending on how much NH-D15 can cool it.

For example:
Let's say NH-D15 can keep temps around 80-90C with 300W limit, on your usage. But if you like to see lower temps, you could limit it instead to 200W.

All-in-all, here are the positive sides of both (air and AIO) CPU cooling methods;

Pros of air coolers:
less cost
less maintenance
less noise
far longer longevity
no leakage risks
doesn't take up case fan slots
additional cooling for the RAM and MoBo VRMs
CPU cools down faster after heavy heat output

Pros of AIOs:
no RAM clearance issues*
no CPU clearance issues
CPU takes longer time to heat up during heavy heat output (about 30 mins)
* on some cases, top mounted rad can give RAM clearance issues

While how the CPU cooler looks inside the PC depends on a person. Some people prefer to see small AIO pump in the middle of their MoBo with tubing going to the rad while others prefer to see big heatsink with fans in the middle of their MoBo.

Main difference between AIO and air cooler is that with AIO, you'll get more noise at a higher cost while cooling performance remains the same.
I already linked the good article, where you can read the results, where king of air coolers (Noctua NH-D15) was put against 5x high-end AIOs, including former king of AIOs (NZXT x61 Kraken).

Personally, i'd go with air coolers every day of the week. With same cooling performance, the pros of air coolers outweigh the pros of AIOs considerably. While, for me, the 3 main pros would be:
1. Less noise.
Since i like my PC to be quiet, i can't stand the loud noise AIO makes. Also, when air gets trapped inside the AIO (some AIOs are more prone to this than others), there's additional noise coming from inside the pump.
2. Longevity.
Cheaper AIOs usually last 2-3 years and high-end ones 4-5 years before you need to replace it. While with air coolers, their life expectancy is basically unlimited. Only thing that can go bad on an air cooler is the fan on it. If the fan dies, your CPU still has cooling in form of a big heatsink. Also, new 120mm or 140mm fan doesn't cost much and it's easy to replace one. While with AIOs, the main thing that usually goes bad is the pump itself. And when that happens, your CPU has no cooling whatsoever. Since you can't replace pump on an AIO, you need to buy whole new AIO to replace the old one out.
3. No leakage risks.
Since there's liquid circling inside the AIO, there is always a risk that your AIO can leak. While it's rare, it has happened. It's well known fact that liquids and electronics don't mix.