AIO vs Air Cooling CPU and GPU

[rich9573]

I'm going to build a new gaming PC when ZEN comes out (I know planning ahead). I want it to be small micro atx and quiet. I am currently trying to work out if I should air cool my cpu and gpu or water cool it (not custom). Currently I have some questions so any help on this would be awesome and I'm always looking to learn

1 - Is air cooling a cpu quieter than AIO? If I did go for an air cooler I would probably go for something more like the Be Quiet Shadow Rock Slim as I don't like the look of the Big Block air coolers.

Btw I don't really plan on overclocking as I want to keep with the quiet theme.

2 - I might treat myself to a M.2 SSD With this build (Not really required but I like new tech). However I have heard they have a thermal throttling:

issue.https://www.pugetsystems.com/labs/articles/Samsung-950-Pro-M-2-Throttling-Analysis-776/

Therefore would It be better If I had AIO cpu and gpu coolers to help keep the heat outside of the case to reduce this issue?

 

[n0ns3ns3]

It really depends on:
> Ambient temperature
> GPU TDP
> CPU TDP
> Case airflow.
> component selection (fans, radiators, pump, AIR cooler, GPU cooler type)
So within a good airflow optimized case with 3 intake and 3 exhaust (quality) fans, the difference between air and liquid is very small.
For the SFF build (especially mini ITX) I'd go for the liquid due to the airflow restrictions within the case if the build is used for high end gaming. That's due to the fact that liquid cooling removes the heat from the case while air cooler rely on case airflow to remove the heat from the case.
Of course liquid cooling might be from slightly to seriously more expensive.
You can achieve your goal by going either way, really depends on your preference.
I had similar doubts long time ago, and eventually went liquid and never look back. If done right, it is safe, much more efficient and quieter solution.
Regarding your M.2 question - generally, this throttling is not a big issue. You can avoid it by making sure that the mount is not located under the GPU exhaust and that your case have good airflow (if you go air cooling). There are also heat-sinks that can be mounted on the SSD that will help to keep it cool.

 

[Jester Maroc]

Liquid cooling works best in small ITX kind cases as those cases generally have compromised their airflow because of their form factor.

1) Air cooling is quieter than liquid cooling.

2) Yes, this can happen but it is very unlikely that you will generate such high amounts of heat if you use this solution https://www.pugetsystems.com/labs/articles/Samsung-950-Pro-M-2-Additional-Cooling-Testing-795/. It all depends on your overall build and what components your have plus what kind of airflow your case can provide.

 

[n0ns3ns3]

^ 1 is not entirely true.

 

[Eximo]

All varies on how it is setup really. There is a lot you can do to prioritize noise over performance if so inclined.

1) Custom water cooling - With lots of radiator space and big/quiet fans it can be very quiet and achieve the best temperatures

2)Big Air cooling - 140mm CPU fans are nearly silent at a reasonable price, GPUs with 2 or 3 fans with a large heatsink will run passive at low loads and be relatively quiet under full load. The case will need decent airflow to accommodate axial cooled GPUs.

2)Premium All-in-one - Some of these are pretty good, but are over $100 and up to $150 for the best ones. About the same as big air though.

3)Air cooling - Standard downdraft and smaller rifle coolers can be quite loud under a heavy load. Standard blower style GPUs are generally quite loud as well.

4)Off the shelf All-in-one - Usually 120mm fans made for performance not silence, smaller aluminum radiators are not that effective resulting in more fan RPM and louder noise.

GPU All-in-one adapters are actually not bad. GPUs are a lot bigger than CPUs, and it makes the block very effective at cooling. Almost as effective as a full cover custom GPU block, at least for the GPU temps. Overall overclocking is more effective with a full cover block to keep the memory and VRMs cool as well.

 

[rich9573]

Thanks all for your replies and input!

I plan on it being a small Micro Atx build not as small as an ITX as it seems to have too many compromises. I think I'm going to buy a AIO probably the Kraken x41 with a G10 or if the RX 490 has a custom water cooling system already built maybe go for that. Either way It seems that liquid cooling the GPU makes sense.

n0ns3ns3 you mention about doing liquid right, are you able to elaborate on that? Thanks

Thanks for the info on the throttling, it would be such a waste to buy it then under perform by 30% etc. I think if I can keep the GPU heat out then there should be no issue

Now to decide between Air cooling the cpu or AIO. Thanks for your input and I think i'll have to wait till I decide on the case then make my decision. However I there reason why i'm not going for liquid custom system is the maintenance and I might be moving this pc around a little and I don't really want all that trouble.

 

[n0ns3ns3]

Done right means right component selection. like calculating the radiator size and selecting correct fans.
For example I use a single custom loop with 120+240 rads for both CPU and GPU - it easily handles the over 300watts TDP. And the GPU remains well below 50C (typically around 40-42C) under load.
If you were not locked on AMD, i'd suggest to look at EK Predator which is expandable and maid of high quality components.
There are similar solutions from alphacool and swiftech that have AMD mountings.
The maintenance of custom loop is next to 0 if you are not using colored liquid. But unlike with sealed loops, you can swap components, expand and add liquid if needed. With sealed loop you will have to replace the kit if pump dies or when the liquid evaporated too much - and it will eventually.
For the small build, I'd go for mini ITX with the Fractal Design Define S nano case.
If you are all in for the sealed kits, go with Arctic - somehow they managed to make the best performing, quitest kits in this category.
https://www.arctic.ac/worldwide_en/accelero-hybrid-iii-140.html# for GPU - there is a smaller sibling.
https://www.arctic.ac/worldwide_en/liquid-freezer-120.html for CPU - there is a larger sibling with 240 rad.

 

[Eximo]

I currently have a Swiftech H240-X, added a thick 120mm radiator from XSPC and run two GTX980 and a very warm i7-4770k on it, should be around 600W dissipation, and it only cost me about $250 with added fittings. I spent a little too much on full cover blocks at $130 each I think, very nice though from XSPC. You can pick up cards from EVGA, and I think MSI now, that already have full cover water blocks from EK on them. A little more expensive then standard cards, but the work is done for you.

The arctic accelero hybrid is actually a pretty good product, particularly the newer model with the heatsink. The older one came with loose heat sinks to install manually. G10 bracket is okay, but it is only a fan blowing on the rest of the card. Try to pick a card that has some sort of VRM heatsinks already. Adding ram sinks can also help.

 

[rich9573]

Thank again for the replies.

I'll have a look into all the options in depth tonight as you've both opened some for me.

Before researching it would it be better to have the EK Predator [Swiftech looks like a pain to get in the uk unfortunately] something that would both cool the CPU and GPU in one loop or have 2 separate systems like the arctic coolers linked above (temp, noise etc). So comparing the 2 options below:

1- EK Predator to cpu to gpu back to EK Pred

would i need another 120mm rad in between the cpu and gpu and maybe a res?

2- Accelero Hybrid III-140 and Liquid Freezer 240 for example.

The cost for the 2nd option seems less however as u said option 1 does give me more options. Out of the two what one would give better performance i.e. temps and noise? If the other is better in both cases then I would be willing to put the extra money in.

Also I decided against going for a fully custom liquid unit as I would be moving this around a little and didn't want to have to bleed it and have to worry about it. Just for peace of mind I wouldn't have to do that with option 1 would i?
This is all assuming I go for the itx build with a Nano S as I had been looking at that case before

Thanks for the info on the G10 I can definitely see the arctics having the edge over it. And thanks again I super appreciate both your help!

 

[n0ns3ns3]

Look at alphacool they are based in europe and have some awesome kits as well.
EK predator is custom loop. just pre assembled. it is made exactly of the same components.
For GPU+CPU combo a 240 rad is minimum. I'd recommend 360 or 240+120 to have lower speed vents.
Now regarding GPU cooling. You need to take care of the GPU, VRAM and VRM. So an expensive solution is full cover block that is made specifically for your card (you need to check before buying the card if there is one). that is most convenient but most expensive solution 100-130 euro for the block alone.
you can go with more universal solution that will be valid for the next card as well. a GPU block only and heatsinks for the VRAM and VRM.
I personally have something in between. A single nvidia universal GPU+RAM block for x70, x80, x80ti, Titan cards + VRM block.
And don't be afraid of custom loops. If you use flexible tubing and everything (pump and res) is mounted, nothing will happen to your system when moved.
Here are kits and GPU solutions
http://www.alphacool.com/shop/sets-und-systems/?p=1
http://www.alphacool.com/shop/gpu-cooler/?p=1

Here is an awesome Define S nano build:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6VMtJEjiMxA

 

[rich9573]

Man i love the look of those gpu blocks..... haha maybe my budget is slowly going out the window (it always seems to). Oh I've always seen fixed tube builds and never custom liquid.

1 - Is custom more expensive than a pred kind of build? Just trying to work this out as the alphacool kit is £240 ish

http://www.alphacool.com/shop/sets-und-systems/16244/alphacool-nexxxos-cool-answer-240-d5/ut-set?c=20541

then add an additional NexXxoS ST30 rad to go ontop of the case. Then some tubing, the gpu block and some extra coolant. All coming to a total of £420 roughly. This would have an extra 120mm rad in the loop what should help. The one thing I don't like about the kit is just visual preference to the right in the case it would be nice to fill that with a res like the build you sent me on youtube rather than a block leaving that empty space. I know this is going to increase my cost even higher but something like this

https://www.overclockers.co.uk/ek-water-blocks-ek-kit-x240-high-performance-watercooling-kit-wc-895-ek.html

2 -The pred would mean no maintenance, well minimum. I read somewhere that You have to clean out a custom build every 6-12 months. Would this be the case or if you get good coolant just leave it for longer? The price difference between option 1 and 2 seems to be kinda minimal.

Or I could just go for an air cooler on my cpu and just have a closed loop for my gpu what would probably cost £200 with a hybrid system. Although the top option will look awesome and perform alot better.....

BTW to me you are a legend!!! thanks for all this help!

 

[n0ns3ns3]

Maintenance is required when you use colored liquid.
I use distilled water as it is the best thing out there
I replace it ~once a year since over time liquid become conductive and in case of spill can cause some damage.

Kits are usually a bit cheaper than buying every part separately.
Don't expect a decent loop to cost less than 300-400$