[SOLVED] AIO vs NH-D14

[bumblebee953]

Hey y'all! I'm in the process of assessing upgrades to my mobo, cpu, and RAM and even though my NH-D14 has served me very well over the years, I'm kinda over the clunkiness of it when cleaning and dusting out my rig, on top of pains with choosing new RAM and having to worry about its clearance below the HSF. Also not super ashamed I'd like a little bit more RGB bling in my rig so going with AIO (not to mention the bling on the pump unit) can free up room for RGBs on the RAM.

I'm just now looking into AIOs and have read a few threads about the popular models like Corsair H100i and Kraken, but I haven't really seen much comparison between those and top-performing air coolers like my Noctua.

Is it worth it to make the transition? If this was 5-10 years ago I'd be a little nervous around AIOs but as I understand they've come a long way. But if the performance is noticeably worse then I'm a little hesitant. My case is Corsair 650D so I should have room for a properly top mounted AIO (ala Gamer Nexus vid).

Would be great to get some recommendations on the AIO models as well!


Thanks a bunch!

 

[Phaaze88]

'Worth it' is up to you alone to determine.
Look to 280mm performance models. Avoid the silent models; they give up too much fan power and will end up performing worse than the old D14.
The NH-D14 matches, or is better than the 240mm models, so skip those.

Air cooler pros:
+price to performance
+more compact
+fewer points of failure
+heatsink can still be cooled even if the cooler's fan(s) is dead

Air cooler cons:
-can't compete in the ultra high TDP space
-ram compatibility

AIO/CLC pros:
+ram compatibility
+cooling in the ultra high TDP space

AIO/CLC cons:
-price to performance
-chassis compatibility
-large
-more points of failure
-pump failure; a backup cooler is needed, otherwise the part being cooled thermal throttles with little to no effort

 

[bumblebee953]

Air cooler pros:
+price to performance
+more compact
+fewer points of failure
+heatsink can still be cooled even if the cooler's fan(s) is dead

Thanks for the input! But isn't air coolers generally less compact than AIOs? Air coolers usually have the fans together with the heat sinks and takes up a lot of room over the mobo. AIOs usually just have the pump right on the CPU with tubes connecting to the rad and fans which usually would be mounted where the case fans would be, away from the main mobo components, no?

 

[Phaaze88]

Thanks for the input! But isn't air coolers generally less compact than AIOs? Air coolers usually have the fans together with the heat sinks and takes up a lot of room over the mobo. AIOs usually just have the pump right on the CPU with tubes connecting to the rad and fans which usually would be mounted where the case fans would be, away from the main mobo components, no?

This is something I've been wanting to hear from you and other people: How do ya'll get to the conclusion that air coolers are larger? Look at the bigger picture:
A)I can handle my NH-D15S with one hand. Can't do that with an AIO/CLC, or I can stress the barbs attached to the water block and the radiator, depending on which end I'm holding up.

B)The NH-D15S is a 'big ol dual tower' heatsink with fans? Well, what is the radiator on the liquid cooler? A really long heatsink, if one could take the D15S' towers and lay them flat, back to back.

C)The AIO/CLC has 2 tubes extending from a water block to the radiator. Air cooler doesn't have that.

 

[bumblebee953]

A)I can handle my NH-D15S with one hand. Can't do that with an AIO/CLC, or I can stress the barbs attached to the water block and the radiator, depending on which end I'm holding up.

Fair point, but I think this is really only relevant when installing or uninstalling for maintenance.

B)The NH-D15S is a 'big ol dual tower' heatsink with fans? Well, what is the radiator on the liquid cooler? A really long heatsink, if one could take the D15S' towers and lay them flat, back to back.
C)The AIO/CLC has 2 tubes extending from a water block to the radiator. Air cooler doesn't have that.

Hmm I don't know if that's a fair comparison? The rad and fans would be mounted either on the top of the case or towards the front, far away from the main mobo components, reducing much of the clutter directly over the mobo. You have the water block wrapped compactly right over the CPU and that's it. Sure you have the tubes but that is still far less clutter than a hovering HS+fans.

 

[John Chesterfield]

I had to weigh up whether I wanted air or water cooling, went for air in the end and glad I did. Idles at 30c and runs all core load at 68c.

Also gives a nice industrial look too and won't ever leak.

 

[Phaaze88]

Fair point, but I think this is really only relevant when installing or uninstalling for maintenance.

I would think that's still relevant. Being too rough with the liquid cooler could lead to leaks.
Get rough with an air cooler and one is more likely to cut themselves. You'd have to take a dremel to the heatpipes to make it leak.

Hmm I don't know if that's a fair comparison? The rad and fans would be mounted either on the top of the case or towards the front, far away from the main mobo components, reducing much of the clutter directly over the mobo. You have the water block wrapped compactly right over the CPU and that's it. Sure you have the tubes but that is still far less clutter than a hovering HS+fans.

POV, which is subjective.
You're taking a heatsink + fan(s) and relocating it, so it looks less imposing. So instead of a block over the mobo, there's now 2 blocks - a small one and a much larger one with fans on it - and they're connected by 2 tubes like something out of a sci-fi film.

Clutter over the mobo?
Subjective POV again.
I've got both an NH-D15S in here along with a Fractal Design Celsius S36 on the gpu, and the D15S looks 'neater' to me.
Let's not forget the additional cable clutter AIOs/CLCs bring... SATA, 4pin, 3pin, and micro USB cables, all for the pump, LEDs, and fans - even more cable clutter if the fans can't be connected to the pump for some reason.
Air cooler typically has just one cable for each fan - an LED model would have 2.

 

[punkncat]

The "trend" as of late has been for influencers to suggest using air cooling. AIO have a tendency to fail after a few years where an air cooler can only need a fan. I would suggest that some of these monstrosity block air coolers have been hanging sideways on a mobo for a few years people will recall a few things....

My build pretty much told me it needed to be water cooled. I went through several coolers and such to end up with not only an AIO, but a butt load of fans in the case (and thanks goodness) Phanteks came out with the mesh front cover version of the otherwise awesome case with poor thermals.
I worry a bit about pump failure or leaks. Hope it doesn't happen. Actively monitor CPU temps at all times and it's been awesome. My 2700X rarely see's 60C under the most intense loads. I customized my fan curves within that and by and large the only noise I hear from my case are the power supply and GPU fans, still being air cooled. The other major advantage being that the area where I sit is now much cooler, in general. If I game for a LONG period of time it will get hot like it did the first few minutes of air cooling.

.02

 

[Zerk2012]

Had air went to water, back to air and no plans to ever go back to water.

Air similar performance until you get into the really expensive AIO's, nothing to go wrong but a fan failure then you could just put a case fan their to get by. In theory it could last forever.

AIO life span about 5 years, small chance of leaking and killing parts, still has the potential fan failure, usually louder, if the pump goes out your PC is 100% down.

Nothing wrong with Big air I think mine looks rather good in my PC.

 

[bumblebee953]

Nothing wrong with Big air I think mine looks rather good in my PC.

Not sure how you got your cooler to completely clear the RAM slots. My NH-D14 covers every single RAM slot. With only 44mm clearance under the cooler, RGB Ram selection is realy limited (not to mention kinda pointless cuz they'd be blocked by the cooler).

 

[Phaaze88]

That's merely a difference in design. While both the NH-D14 and R1 Universal have a thick and thin fans, the R1 Universal was made with the heatpipes leaning back. Although, this design does run into compatibility issues on the HEDT platforms.

 

[Zerk2012]

Not sure how you got your cooler to completely clear the RAM slots. My NH-D14 covers every single RAM slot. With only 44mm clearance under the cooler, RGB Ram selection is realy limited (not to mention kinda pointless cuz they'd be blocked by the cooler).

I can see all 4 of my ram slots and add or remove from all slots without messing with the cooler.

Some people like the clean looks of a AIO, to each their own I buy Air have down AIO, went back to air. If you like the cleaner look of a AIO then that is for you everybody has different likes.

RGB memory was nothing to me that is why I bought none. I upgraded the motherboard, memory, processor, and added the WD M.2 drive along with the MC case everything else was reused.

Looking to add a 1440p ultrawide, new 3800 video card and replace my 5 year old PSU whenever the prices get right again.

Their really no right or wrong answer, You will see your PC everyday, I will never see your PC so it's all up to the user. I built PC's for people that don't even consider using a side window or any LED crap because they don't like it I'm not one to judge.

 

[bumblebee953]

I can see all 4 of my ram slots and add or remove from all slots without messing with the cooler.

Are there other recommended air coolers like yours that frees up the RAM slots?

 

[Phaaze88]

Are there other recommended air coolers like yours that frees up the RAM slots?

Noctua NH-D15S, NH-U12A
Thermalright Le Grand Macho RT, Macho Rev C., Silver Arrow T8
Scythe FUMA 2, Ninja 5(if not overclocking)

 

[bumblebee953]

Noctua NH-D15S, NH-U12A
Thermalright Le Grand Macho RT, Macho Rev C., Silver Arrow T8
Scythe FUMA 2, Ninja 5(if not overclocking)

Ok you guys have convinced me to stay with air coolers. But I still want to update my NH-D14. I just hate its RAM incompatibility.
I like NH-D15 due to its close industrial-like design to the D14 but with stepped fins to allow for better RAM compat. The Chromax.black version also looks really slick. But I read that I'd need to remove the front fan otherwise it's still going to be very little room for RAM, which would make it more like a NH-D15S.
Is single fan NH-D15 in fact less powerful than NH-D15S? Or the same? I just really dig the black look but looks like they aren't going to come up with black version for NH-D15S until 2021 Q1.
Same goes for the NH-U12A on the color (also not a biggest fan of the overall look of it). Also wondering about its performance compared to the NH-D15 and NH-D15S...I'm guessing double-fan NH-D15 is going to be the best out of the 3 for performance?

 

[Phaaze88]

Performance(from top to bottom):
NH-D15: the best performer, but not significantly so, and available in black. The downside is front fan ram compatibility.

NH-D15S: IMO, this is superior to the D15 because it fits a wider selection of chassis and motherboards(without a chance of blocking the top PCIe slot).
Plus the difference between single and dual fan is almost non-existent - you might see a 3C difference with ultra high power consuming cpus at full load.
The downside is just the color scheme. I'm aware it's not everyone's cup of tea.

NH-U12A: Now, this cooler LOOKS expensive, especially if one doesn't know what they're getting, which is 140mm class cooler performance in a 120mm class package.
Downsides are that it's not going to beat the big boys at the ultra high end, and the color scheme.

 

[bumblebee953]

Performance(from top to bottom):
NH-D15: the best performer, but not significantly so, and available in black. The downside is front fan ram compatibility.

NH-D15S: IMO, this is superior to the D15 because it fits a wider selection of chassis and motherboards(without a chance of blocking the top PCIe slot).
Plus the difference between single and dual fan is almost non-existent - you might see a 3C difference with ultra high power consuming cpus at full load.
The downside is just the color scheme. I'm aware it's not everyone's cup of tea.

I think for the NH-D15 (again really digging the black ver) if I moved the front fan up, it may still allow for enough RAM clearance. With the CPU cooler clearance calculation from Noctua website, 140mm fan + 64mm ram (typical RGB) - 7mm (rough height of socket and CPU) = 179mm CPU cooler clearance requirement in my case. My case allows for up to 185mm so it may work out fine. I just don't know exactly how far up the fan can be moved up the heatsink tower.

But if I had to use the NH-D15 in single fan mode, what is the performance difference between that and an NH-D15S. As I understand NH-D15S is basically just a NH-D15 in single fan mode? Or are there actually other differences?

 

[Phaaze88]

NH-D15, without moving the front fan, has 32mm of clearance for ram. Account for 1mm of space, because you don't want the fan to directly touch the ram due to vibrations; they can damage the socket over time.
So it accommodates naked or low profile ram. For taller modules, you'll have to increase the height for every mm over 31mm.

Your chassis allows up to, but not exactly, 185mm - let's use 184mm to be on the safe side.
184-165=19. The front fan can be raised 19mm from the cooler's default 165mm height.

That just leaves the height of whatever your ram is. A few examples:
G. Skill Trident Z: 44mm. G. Skill conveniently has the heights for their kits listed in their FAQs.
44-31=13, +165=178mm, still fits.

Corsair Dominator Platinum: 55mm.
55-31=24, +165=189mm, that's a no-go.

Corsair Vengeance RGB Pro: 51mm.
51-31=20, +165=185mm, that's also no good.

But if I had to use the NH-D15 in single fan mode, what is the performance difference between that and an NH-D15S. As I understand NH-D15S is basically just a NH-D15 in single fan mode? Or are there actually other differences?

None. The offset heatsink design is the only major difference.

 

[bumblebee953]

NH-D15, without moving the front fan, has 32mm of clearance for ram. Account for 1mm of space, because you don't want the fan to directly touch the ram due to vibrations; they can damage the socket over time.
So it accommodates naked or low profile ram. For taller modules, you'll have to increase the height for every mm over 31mm.

Your chassis allows up to, but not exactly, 185mm - let's use 184mm to be on the safe side.
184-165=19. The front fan can be raised 19mm from the cooler's default 165mm height.

That just leaves the height of whatever your ram is. A few examples:
G. Skill Trident Z: 44mm. G. Skill conveniently has the heights for their kits listed in their FAQs.
44-31=13, +165=178mm, still fits.

Corsair Dominator Platinum: 55mm.
55-31=24, +165=189mm, that's a no-go.

Corsair Vengeance RGB Pro: 51mm.
51-31=20, +165=185mm, that's also no good.


None. The offset heatsink design is the only major difference.

Great! Thanks very much! I had my eyes on the G.Skill for a while already anyway!

 

[geofelt]

NH-D15s is a high compatibility version of the NH-D15.
It will clear tall ram heat spreaders like trident-Z
One not so obvious change is that the NH-D15s is slightly offset to clear graphics card backplates mounted in the first pcie x16 slot.
When I had a NH-D14 in a previous build, I needed a cardboard shim to insulate the cooler from my graphics card.

 

[xx12amanxx]

I don't know if this has been mentioned but another important thing to consider is your locations ambient temperature. AIO will perform better in environments where the ambient temp is high like in rooms with poor air conditioning. Air coolers work very well when the ambient temperature is low but once it increases their capacity to displace heat becomes more obvious.

 

[bumblebee953]

When I had a NH-D14 in a previous build, I needed a cardboard shim to insulate the cooler from my graphics card.

I've never had an issue with graphics card compat on my NH-D14. Is it a huge issue for a lot of graphics cards? I don't see GPU compat lists on Noctua website so I wonder if there is some reference somewhere for some of that compat?

 

[geofelt]

I've never had an issue with graphics card compat on my NH-D14. Is it a huge issue for a lot of graphics cards? I don't see GPU compat lists on Noctua website so I wonder if there is some reference somewhere for some of that compat?

It is a motherboard compatibility issue, if anything.
Noctua web site has a motherboard compatibility section for each card that can tell you what issues there are, if any for a specific motherboard.

 

[bumblebee953]

It is a motherboard compatibility issue, if anything.
Noctua web site has a motherboard compatibility section for each card that can tell you what issues there are, if any for a specific motherboard.

Ahh yeah I realized that right after my last reply and looked at the mobo compat list on Noctua. Looks like it'd be ok with the MSI Z490 Gaming Edge Wifi I was eyeing (initally my heart jumped because it said it was incompat until I realized I was looking at the micro-ATX version Z490M). Thanks for headsup!

 

[rubix_1011]

Coming from someone who has watercooled for 19 years and also covers cooling for Tom's Hardware:

I'd rather use a great air cooler than an AIO in nearly every instance, but there are some decent ones out there. The majority of the AIO superiority comes from people thinking that liquid is better than air cooling because custom watercooling often has been (traditionally, over time) so, since an AIO is liquid, it must also follow this rule.

Wrong. AIOs work on the same principles as custom watercooling, just to a lesser degree of performance and capability. Really need people to understand that there isn't a rule that Water > Air, because it isn't always true.

The issue is, most people think AIOs are all very different from one another - they really aren't. The majority of the pumps are actually produced by 2 different primary OEMs: Asetek and CoolIT. There are a couple others which are not. The only real difference are what fans are used for the radiator, any software they use for their UI suite and the bits of colored plastic and RGB on the pump, hiding the Asetek or CoolIT pump beneath.

Nearly every single AIO that I test or photograph now is nearly identical to the AIOs I did before.

Also, think of this: Even the largest AIOs (360mm) have 10-20mL of fluid in them. It's a very small volume of coolant. Also, nearly every AIO has some air left inside when it is sealed...none of them are 100% filled with coolant. If you can shake it and hear sloshing, there is air...you cannot slosh something which has 100% coolant or 0% air.

My custom watercooling loop, by comparison, has about 0.85-0.90 liters of coolant overall. Coolant volume does not indicate performance as any fluid volume will reach working equilibrium, but more to the point that AIO pumps move a trickle of coolant while my D5 pump moves over 1 gallon/3.8 liters per minute. I once tested the flow of a Corsair H110i and it was around 0.1- 0.2 liters per minute. Newer AIO pumps likely move a bit more, though.