[SOLVED] Aircooler or AIO for 10850K 5.0Ghz all cores

[edo101]

I was set on getting an air cooler. Set and forget type deal as I always have. I had a Silver Arrow SBE on my i7-930 for 8 years. Worked and still works. Never had to change out anything.

I haven't upgraded in 10 years and never saw the hype of AIOs. But people tell me that to try and achieve 5.0Ghz on all cores for a 10850K, you'd need better than Air cooling. My eyes for aircoolign was on the Noctua 15 or the Be Quiet: https://www.newegg.com/be-quiet-dark-rock-pro-4-bk022/p/13C-001F-00027

My concern with AIOs is their longestivity, leakage and possible increased maintenance. How long do they last and what do I typically have to replace? is it some special liquid they use or just distilled water?

 

[Phaaze88]

1)They can last from 1 to 8 years.

2)Leaks aren't as common as they once were.
Most leaks today are caused by users.

3)You typically replace the entire unit, except for the fans that still work. The vast majority of hybrid coolers aren't intended to be refilled nor serviced by the user, so when that pump dies, it's pretty much time to kick the whole thing to the curb.
Very cost inefficient.
Also, since most of them are mixed metal - copper cold plate and aluminum radiator - corrosion is also a thing once the corrosion inhibitors in the fluid expire. So a dying/dead pump isn't the only thing to watch out for later.

4)It's usually a mixture of glycol(biocide), water, and corrosion inhibitor, unless otherwise specified.

But people tell me that to try and achieve 5.0Ghz on all cores for a 10850K, you'd need better than Air cooling.

If 'everyone' didn't get pulled into overclocking like it's some kind of feature - it isn't - you could do just fine on air if you ignore the 'call to overclock'.
I say 'everyone', because people who normally don't/didn't do it, seem to want to do it now like it's a necessity or something. There's more 'help me with overclocking' threads than there's ever been in the last few years... it's gotten ridiculous.

Today's cpus are very power efficient.
But when people want to run these chips past their default specs, and throwing power efficiency out the window... what happens afterwards should be obvious.
In the Tom's Hardware review of the 10850K, their sample was able to draw almost 300w of power from overclocking. That's not small...
There's hard limits to what air coolers can reasonably handle, and the i9s can easily exceed that barrier when overclocking.

My eyes for aircoolign was on the Noctua 15 or the Be Quiet: https://www.newegg.com/be-quiet-dark-rock-pro-4-bk022/p/13C-001F-00027

Either of those coolers is fine if you ignore overclocking.

 

[edo101]

1)They can last from 1 to 8 years.

2)Leaks haven't been a thing since they first came out. They were pretty bad then.
Most leaks today are caused by users.

3)You typically replace the entire unit, except for the fans that still work. The vast majority of hybrid coolers aren't intended to be refilled nor serviced by the user, so when that pump dies, it's pretty much time to kick the whole thing to the curb.
Very cost inefficient.
Also, since most of them are mixed metal - copper cold plate and aluminum radiator - corrosion is also a thing once the corrosion inhibitors in the fluid expire. So a dying/dead pump isn't the only thing to watch out for later.

4)It's usually a mixture of glycol(biocide), water, and corrosion inhibitor, unless otherwise specified.



If 'everyone' didn't get pulled into overclocking like it's some kind of feature - it isn't - you could do just fine on air if you ignore the 'call to overclock'.
I say 'everyone', because people who normally don't/didn't do it, seem to want to do it now like it's a necessity or something. There's more 'help me with overclocking' threads than there's ever been in the last few years... it's gotten ridiculous.

Today's cpus are very power efficient.
But when people want to run these chips past their default specs, and throwing power efficiency out the window... what happens afterwards should be obvious.
In the Tom's Hardware review of the 10850K, their sample was able to draw almost 300w of power from overclocking. That's not small...
There's hard limits to what air coolers can reasonably handle, and the i9s can easily exceed that barrier when overclocking.


Either of those coolers is fine if you ignore overclocking.

https://www.newegg.com/be-quiet-liquid-cooling-system/p/2YM-0069-00004

This one says its refillable? @Phaaze88 . I'm not an OC nut but I want the advertised boost. SO 5.0Ghz on all cores. I wont go past that

 

[Phaaze88]

https://www.newegg.com/be-quiet-liquid-cooling-system/p/2YM-0069-00004

This one says its refillable?

Aye, there aren't too many models like that.

I'm not an OC nut but I want the advertised boost. SO 5.0Ghz on all cores.

5.0ghz on all cores isn't advertised at all for this cpu.
This is what's advertised for that cpu: https://ark.intel.com/content/www/u...0850k-processor-20m-cache-up-to-5-20-ghz.html
A couple things not shown there are:
-The all core turbo is 4.8ghz.
-Thermal Velocity Boost is only active up to 70C.

 

[madchemist83]

I'm with set it and forget it crowd. Aio look nice however and do get you better temps but as people pointed out unless you overclocking you don't need it.

 

[edo101]

I'm with set it and forget it crowd. Aio look nice however and do get you better temps but as people pointed out unless you overclocking you don't need it.

Well I wanna get 5 Ghz on all cores lol. I guess that's overclocking

 

[madchemist83]

But what's the reason ? My friend has 10900k with 5.2 ghz OC and Noctua cooler and no issues. It does run relatively hotter but nothing crazy.
What is the rest of your system looks like ? Are you overclocking to get more fps in games, just so you can score higher on benchmarks or to improve productivity of other software? Imo AIO are either for looks or better benchmark scores, or unless you absolutely need the best performance of your computer for work or gaming and you are also constantly maintain that quality.

 

[edo101]

But what's the reason ? My friend has 10900k with 5.2 ghz OC and Noctua cooler and no issues. It does run relatively hotter but nothing crazy.
What is the rest of your system looks like ? Are you overclocking to get more fps in games, just so you can score higher on benchmarks or to improve productivity of other software? Imo AIO are either for looks or better benchmark scores, or unless you absolutely need the best performance of your computer for work or gaming and you are also constantly maintain that quality.

I simply want 5.0 Ghz for gaming only. I have some 3D Vision games that rely on strong single core performance. 5.0 just seems like a good fine numbre to round off on lol. Not 4.8Ghz always feeling like im 200mhz away from 5.0

People keep saying AIOs are better than air. What I see myself doing if possible is to set my 10850K to 5,0Ghz all cores. Then reduce it to 4.8ghz when I'm not gaming. I don't know if this is possible. To conserve power, I'd like to drop down to 4.8Ghz when I'm not gaming and go up to 5.0 when I am gaming. Nothing more. I don't need to go beyond 5.0Ghz

It's like my i7-930. I set that thing from 2.8Ghz to 4.0 all cores and left it on my Silver Arrow.

I don't have the rest of system yet. I am debating grabbing a Z490 board...an Asrock Taichi or Gigabyte Auros since those adverstise pci--e-4. My mobos will be in the 230 to 330 price range.

Ram is the Patriot Viper 4GHz CL19. (apparently it can be fine tuned to lower times at this same clock) @madchemist83

I don't want to do AIO if I don't have to. I have always used air and preferred a set and forget it method, but I see there are 2 AIOs that are refillable for longetivity

 

[Phaaze88]

People keep saying AIOs are better than air.

No idea who those folks are, but that's not universally true.
Both have their strengths and weaknesses, and well... it's nice to have more options.

What I see myself doing if possible is to set my 10850K to 5,0Ghz all cores. Then reduce it to 4.8ghz when I'm not gaming. I don't know if this is possible. To conserve power, I'd like to drop down to 4.8Ghz when I'm not gaming and go up to 5.0 when I am gaming.

This would require you to either:
-enter bios every time you wanted to make those changes
-open up some 3rd party program to do it instead

You've also got another wrench in the plan: You have to win the silicon lottery. 10850Ks do NOT have high 5.0ghz capable samples:

Comet Lake	All Core SSE Frequency	All Core AVX2 Frequency	Per Core Frequency	All Core Die Sense Vcore	Power Limit	% Capable
10850K	4.80GHz	4.70GHz	6C+100MHz 3C+200MHz	1.130V	210W	100%
10850K	4.90GHz	4.80GHz	6C+100MHz 3C+200MHz	1.150V	220W	Top 57%
10850K	5.00GHz	4.90GHz	6C+100MHz 3C+200MHz	1.170V	230W	Top 6%

Source: https://siliconlottery.com/pages/statistics
You've got less than 1/10th of a chance of nabbing one such sample.

 

[edo101]

No idea who those folks are, but that's not universally true.
Both have their strengths and weaknesses, and well... it's nice to have more options.


This would require you to either:
-enter bios every time you wanted to make those changes
-open up some 3rd party program to do it instead

You've also got another wrench in the plan: You have to win the silicon lottery. 10850Ks do NOT have high 5.0ghz capable samples:

Comet Lake	All Core SSE Frequency	All Core AVX2 Frequency	Per Core Frequency	All Core Die Sense Vcore	Power Limit	% Capable
10850K	4.80GHz	4.70GHz	6C+100MHz 3C+200MHz	1.130V	210W	100%
10850K	4.90GHz	4.80GHz	6C+100MHz 3C+200MHz	1.150V	220W	Top 57%
10850K	5.00GHz	4.90GHz	6C+100MHz 3C+200MHz	1.170V	230W	Top 6%

Source: https://siliconlottery.com/pages/statistics
You've got less than 1/10th of a chance of nabbing one such sample.

Well it looks like I should shoot for a good AIO then. Looking at the AF II 360 mm option now @Phaaze88
https://www.newegg.com/arctic-cooling-liquid-freezer-ii-360-liquid-cooling-system/p/N82E16835186249

 

[Phaaze88]

The radiator on the Liquid Freezer 2 series is thicker than most others. Make sure it will fit in your chassis.

 

[edo101]

The radiator on the Liquid Freezer 2 series is thicker than most others. Make sure it will fit in your chassis.

That I don't know. This is my case though which is arriving Wednesday: http://www.phanteks.com/Eclipse-P500A-DRGB.html
@Phaaze88

 

[edo101]

The radiator on the Liquid Freezer 2 series is thicker than most others. Make sure it will fit in your chassis.

Looks like it will and looks like I might have to settle for the 280 MM version of that cooler. The 360 MM is sold by some company I've never heard of through Amazon and Newegg @Phaaze88

 

[Phaaze88]

: http://www.phanteks.com/Eclipse-P500A-DRGB.html

95mm of clearance in the front, 65mm of clearance at the top. You're clear either way you want to mount it.

The 360 MM is sold by some company I've never heard of through Amazon and Newegg

Ah, the bloody 3rd party sellers - of which there are many.
They tend to gouge the price, to varying degrees.
Sold and shipped by Newegg/Amazon is best.
Sold by 3rd party and shipped by Newegg/Amazon is ok.
The ones you really should avoid are sold and shipped by 3rd party sellers.

 

[edo101]

95mm of clearance in the front, 65mm of clearance at the top. You're clear either way you want to mount it.


Ah, the bloody 3rd party sellers - of which there are many.
They tend to gouge the price, to varying degrees.
Sold and shipped by Newegg/Amazon is best.
Sold by 3rd party and shipped by Newegg/Amazon is ok.
The ones you really should avoid are sold and shipped by 3rd party sellers.

Yeah. I ordered it through Amazon through the selller hot deals for less. I also bought the 280 MM version directly through amazon for wait and see. The difference between the 280 and 360 are like 2to3 degrees max.

I might just roll with the 280MM if i don't get a shipping update by next week. or go and get the 360Mm from ebay seller?:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/ARCTIC-COO...379820?hash=item46a6fe13ec:g:NZcAAOSwLIpecE1Z

 

[geofelt]

Your case is excellent for air cooling.
I would be inclined to try your trusty silver arrow.
I think it will do just fine.
It is a twin tower cooler that is similar to the noctua NH-D15 coolers.
Those coolers are suitable for a i7-10850K according to the noctua suitability chart:
https://ncc.noctua.at/cpus/model/Intel-Core-i9-10850K-1208
The only thing stronger than your current cooler will be a 360 aio.

If you decide on aio cooling,
look at this video on issues with aio mounting.

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BbGomv195sk

 

[edo101]

Your case is excellent for air cooling.
I would be inclined to try your trusty silver arrow.
I think it will do just fine.
It is a twin tower cooler that is similar to the noctua NH-D15 coolers.
Those coolers are suitable for a i7-10850K according to the noctua suitability chart:
https://ncc.noctua.at/cpus/model/Intel-Core-i9-10850K-1208
The only thing stronger than your current cooler will be a 360 aio.

If you decide on aio cooling,
look at this video on issues with aio mounting.

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BbGomv195sk

The Silver Arrow is old as hell lol. I don't think it has LGA 1200 brackets? And sadly the heatsink is back in Portland while I'm in Texas for the holidays

 

[Phaaze88]

@edo101
The weaknesses of hybrid coolers lie in the pump speed and the size of the copper finstack on the other side of the cold plate that you can't see.
That's why there are many cases of 280mm rivaling 360mm ones, with the latter having an edge if the heat load is high enough.

Also:
LGA 1200 = LGA 115x. The socket dimensions are the same.

 

[edo101]

@edo101
The weaknesses of hybrid coolers lie in the pump speed and the size of the copper finstack on the other side of the cold plate that you can't see.
That's why there are many cases of 280mm rivaling 360mm ones, with the latter having an edge if the heat load is high enough.

Also:
LGA 1200 = LGA 115x. The socket dimensions are the same.

Mm so you're saying 115x brackets fit 1200? Damn If only i had known that before i left PDX. The issue is my socket was 1366. Is 1366 = 115x =1200? Cause i lost track of other brackets the cooler came with

 

[Phaaze88]

No, 1366 has different socket dimensions.
Sorry, I forgot you were moving from a different socket than 115x ones.

 

[mdd1963]

Well I wanna get 5 Ghz on all cores lol. I guess that's overclocking

That pretty much leaves out an air cooler, barring some new Noctua with 4 stacks and 5 fans!

 

[Darkbreeze]

2)Leaks haven't been a thing since they first came out. They were pretty bad then.
Most leaks today are caused by users.

Sorry Phaaze, I'm going to have to disagree with you here. I WILL agree that they are much LESS COMMON than they used to be, but they still happen, and it's really not all THAT infrequent either. It's not super common, but I would definitely not call it rare.

In the last two years I have, myself, seen several threads on this forum alone where a relatively new model AIO with fewer than six months of use had developed hardware damaging leaks, and one of them was actually on a moderator system that ended up killing some hardware including the motherboard. So it absolutely still happens even if it's not nearly as common as it was for early adopters. I certainly wouldn't tell anybody NOT to go with an AIO because of a fear of leaks, but I equally wouldn't try to lead them to believe it's not still 100% a possibility to be aware of and monitor for so that it could be detected early if it does occur.

It's unlikely, but so is getting a flat tire on the way to the store, and that happens every day. The fact that we don't always hear about every flat tire doesn't change the fact that it's happening all around us.

 

[Phaaze88]

@Darkbreeze
Poor choice of words on my part. I didn't mean to convey that they don't happen anymore - I will edit that post.

I still believe that most leaks today are caused by the end user.

 

[Darkbreeze]

Yes, I agree, end users are the cause of MANY and maybe even MOST problems that happen, regardless of what the subject matter is. Still, other problems happen too and we don't want to ever lose sight of that fact or pretend like all problems are caused by end users because we certainly know that is equally not true. Just wanted to clarify, not contradict you in any way.