[SOLVED] Alder Lake with Win10 for gaming?

Iso4

Prominent
Sep 5, 2020
17
0
510
0
I'm eyeing a new gaming build. I don't want to use Windows 11 but I know that the 11th gen intel CPUs have problems with power and running hot. If you use Alder Lake with Win10 for gaming, what has your experience been like? Have you run into any bugs or problems?
 
Last edited:

geofelt

Titan
Do we know how much of a performance dip this could cause yet?

We know that there is no meaningful performance dip.

A 6th gen processor doesn't sound encouraging. I don't understand how these CPUs work but I would expect better than 6th generation performance.
I aimed to point out that even the E cores are no slouch when it comes to performance.
Their benefit comes into play when running heavy multitasking apps that can use all cores.
For more single threaded tasks like games, the faster cores will be used by design.
They would be used more frequently even by chance because there ate more high performance threads available than E threads.

Any hesitance to win 11 should come from those who are on 10 and have no good reason to go to 11 and possibly uncovering a fault that impacts what they already have.

On balance, on a new build, I would opt for windows 10.
 
The only problem with using Windows 10 is it treats all of the cores the same. So in theory if it put a computation heavy thread on an E-core, you'll have a dip in performance for as long as it's there. And it's unlikely Windows 10's scheduler will be updated to take x86 hybrid CPUs into account.
 

Iso4

Prominent
Sep 5, 2020
17
0
510
0
The only problem with using Windows 10 is it treats all of the cores the same. So in theory if it put a computation heavy thread on an E-core, you'll have a dip in performance for as long as it's there. And it's unlikely Windows 10's scheduler will be updated to take x86 hybrid CPUs into account.
By dip in performance, do you mean relative to its performance on 11? Or are we talking about the PC hanging or frames going down?
 

geofelt

Titan
By dip in performance, do you mean relative to its performance on 11? Or are we talking about the PC hanging or frames going down?
Relative to 11.
And even the E cores are perhaps as capable as a 6th gen processor anyway.
Windows now knows about hyperthreading and AMD core structure. I would imagine that they would improve their scheduling some.

The VBS (Virtualization-Based Security) capability is more likely to be what some are worried about.
It is an extra protection layer that is optional.
It can run on win10 or win11 It can be enabled or disabled in the bios.
Here is an article on the subject if you are worried:

My interpretation... no impact 10 vs.11.
Enabling VBS on intel 11/12gen or ryzen can have an impact. Probably not needed.
 
I'm eyeing a new gaming build. I don't want to use Windows 11 but I know that the 11th gen intel CPUs have problems with power and running hot. If you use Alder Lake with Win10 for gaming, what has your experience been like? Have you run into any bugs or problems?
It looks like if you use a 12th gen and want the best perf your going to w11.
Something to do with the scheduler.
Run that through google and do some reading.
 

Iso4

Prominent
Sep 5, 2020
17
0
510
0
The only problem with using Windows 10 is it treats all of the cores the same. So in theory if it put a computation heavy thread on an E-core, you'll have a dip in performance for as long as it's there. And it's unlikely Windows 10's scheduler will be updated to take x86 hybrid CPUs into account.
Do we know how much of a performance dip this could cause yet?

Relative to 11.
And even the E cores are perhaps as capable as a 6th gen processor anyway.
A 6th gen processor doesn't sound encouraging. I don't understand how these CPUs work but I would expect better than 6th generation performance.
 
Last edited:

geofelt

Titan
Do we know how much of a performance dip this could cause yet?

We know that there is no meaningful performance dip.

A 6th gen processor doesn't sound encouraging. I don't understand how these CPUs work but I would expect better than 6th generation performance.
I aimed to point out that even the E cores are no slouch when it comes to performance.
Their benefit comes into play when running heavy multitasking apps that can use all cores.
For more single threaded tasks like games, the faster cores will be used by design.
They would be used more frequently even by chance because there ate more high performance threads available than E threads.

Any hesitance to win 11 should come from those who are on 10 and have no good reason to go to 11 and possibly uncovering a fault that impacts what they already have.

On balance, on a new build, I would opt for windows 10.
 
...And it's unlikely Windows 10's scheduler will be updated to take x86 hybrid CPUs into account...
Source?
Windows 10 will be fully supported by Microsoft through 2024. I find it highly unlikely that Microsoft won't, eventually, enable the thread director in Windows 10.
Especially since it already exists in the latest Windows 10 kernel binary. (Yes, the latest Windows 10 and Windows 11 use the same kernel binary)
 
Source?
Windows 10 will be fully supported by Microsoft through 2024. I find it highly unlikely that Microsoft won't, eventually, enable the thread director in Windows 10.
Especially since it already exists in the latest Windows 10 kernel binary. (Yes, the latest Windows 10 and Windows 11 use the same kernel binary)
Do you have any source that both W10 and W11 are using the same kernel binary? Because they aren't the same version. Windows10 is on version 19044.1387 (Source). Windows 11 is on 22000.348 (Source)

There's also the practical matter of support. With Windows 11 out, is there any reason for Microsoft to devote just as much resources on feature updates than security updates? Not to mention, schedulers are a core part of the OS; making a major change to that may impact the rest of the OS in unexpected ways.

Do we know how much of a performance dip this could cause yet?
A 6th gen processor doesn't sound encouraging. I don't understand how these CPUs work but I would expect better than 6th generation performance.
If we went by this https://www.techpowerup.com/review/alder-lake-windows-10-performance/3.html, we could say "almost no impact." However they only measured average frame rates. I'd imagine the performance impact would be more in the form of sudden spikes in frame time.
 
Do you have any source that both W10 and W11 are using the same kernel binary? Because they aren't the same version. Windows10 is on version 19044.1387 (Source). Windows 11 is on 22000.348 (Source)
There's also the practical matter of support. With Windows 11 out, is there any reason for Microsoft to devote just as much resources on feature updates than security updates? Not to mention, schedulers are a core part of the OS; making a major change to that may impact the rest of the OS in unexpected ways.
None that I can share but you are missing something in those version numbers. 10.0.19044.1387 and 10.0.22000.348, respectively. ;)
Understood on the practical front. My point is that the heavylifting has already been done. The thread director is already there - just dormant.
 

Iso4

Prominent
Sep 5, 2020
17
0
510
0
I aimed to point out that even the E cores are no slouch when it comes to performance.
Their benefit comes into play when running heavy multitasking apps that can use all cores.
For more single threaded tasks like games, the faster cores will be used by design.
They would be used more frequently even by chance because there ate more high performance threads available than E threads.

Any hesitance to win 11 should come from those who are on 10 and have no good reason to go to 11 and possibly uncovering a fault that impacts what they already have.

On balance, on a new build, I would opt for windows 10.
Thanks for this info, it makes me feel a lot better about going with 12th gen and windows 10.
 

Karadjgne

Titan
Ambassador
Windows10 and Windows 11 use the same kernel base. They are essentially the same program except Win11 has some added programming and some removed programming, and a slightly different look. It also means the scheduler activated in Win11 for 12th gen use, is also present in Win10, it's just disabled by Microsoft and won't be activated until after Microsoft and Intel start profiting from Win11 sales. Gotta justify the money invested.

Win10 is about as bug free as it'll ever get. Microsoft is past the point of really trying to support 10 as a platform. Win11 is new enough that many of its bugs are yet to be found, or fixed if known. It's really not going to hurt to wait until most of the bugs are fixed.
 

Karadjgne

Titan
Ambassador
Then it's not the same program. That's like saying Edge and Chrome are the same program.
It's more like saying the red Camero with the black rims and SS stripes and 350/350 and spoiler is the same car as the blue Camero with the silver rims and SS decals and 350/350 without spoiler. Same base car, different look. The changes and tweaks can affect performance, but underneath they are intrinsically the same thing.

Comparing Edge to Chrome is like comparing a Mustang to a Camero, the only thing in common being the Sports Car moniker. Both are search engines but the coding is entirely different. Win11 is based on Win10, same coding, Microsoft just enabled the scheduler (its available but disabled in Win10) and changed the look of some of the things, like moving Start to the center instead of on the left edge. Any performance gains are due to minor code tweaks that could just as easily have been done to Win10, but Microsoft chose to call the new look and tweaks Win11 instead.

Most bugs in Win11 now are due to those tweaks and the affects on some software, especially game engines and previously the scheduler being enabled for 12th gen intel affecting Ryzens use of fclock.
 
Reactions: alceryes

ASK THE COMMUNITY