[SOLVED] All exhust fans?

Apr 3, 2020
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Do you guys think an all exhust fan configuration would work on a h510 NZXT case? I understand the dust will build up, but besides that is there any risks?
 
Thanks, and honestly this is my first build and i went with a cheap case to get better hardware, and i watched tests and this case is utter garbage at cooling, but i knew the two case fans included were enough to keep the system cool, but being a beginner, i HAD to have RGB (lol). The other two exhust fans, not where the original ones came, are just for an asthetic purpose, since testing shows that those intake fans would be useless. Also, considering the air would take the path of least resistance, it would not suck all of its air through an intake one foot away, that also has a hard right angle before being exposed to outside air. From what i think, it would just suck the air from the vent holes right but the GPU, or through the bottom of the case, it just makes more sense. In addition overclocking is not in my future, and i have been running folding at home at max levels and my CPU is on the warm side, but nothing alarming, since it only has a stock cooler. While folding the case temp was also only a few degrees higher than ambient temps so i think i am good unless you have any counters tp my claims.
Well, if it works satisfactory for you, good for you but it's not optimal although much better than nothing. I commented about all intake because they can be directed to certain area which exhaust can't.
 
Do you guys think an all exhust fan configuration would work on a h510 NZXT case? I understand the dust will build up, but besides that is there any risks?
No, it's not good for any case, you need a directed air stream thru the case and that can be achieved only by having almost equal intake and exhaust in right place(s). Even all intake is better than all exhaust.
 

Darkbreeze

Titan
Moderator
No, that's not how you cool ANY case. Period.

Front, side and bottom fans must ALWAYS be intake fans, and all rear and top fan locations must be exhaust fan orientations, for all ATX tower style cases. There may be a VERY FEW exceptions out there running specialty niche configurations, but those are not the norm and I don't recommend doing that in any case, regardless of the case model, if it is an ATX tower style case.

You run an all exhaust configuration with exhaust fans in all fan locations and you are going to have very crappy cooling performance, and probably ruin something.

Now, depending on the hardware, if you wanted to run ONLY a rear and top-rear fan, as exhaust, you might be able to get away with that so long as you had no fans installed in the remaining fan locations, but you sure as heck don't want to go installing exhaust fans everywhere.
 

Darkbreeze

Titan
Moderator
Even all intake is better than all exhaust.
No, it isn't. If it was, then OEMs that include only one fan would include an intake fan rather than just a single exhaust fan in the rear fan location. And case manufacturers would do the same.

It is HARD to push air through a system that has no exhaust fans helping to reduce the internal resistance (pressure) and out the fan grills, but it is EASY for a fan to expel air directly out it's own fan grill as an exhaust fan and then by virtue of the pressure differential the outside ambient air will easily and automatically rush in through the empty front fan locations (And any other available holes) to fill the void and repeat the cycle.

Much like the string theory. It's very easy to PULL a string. Try pushing one sometime.
 
No, it isn't. If it was, then OEMs that include only one fan would include an intake fan rather than just a single exhaust fan in the rear fan location. And case manufacturers would do the same.

It is HARD to push air through a system that has no exhaust fans helping to reduce the internal resistance (pressure) and out the fan grills, but it is EASY for a fan to expel air directly out it's own fan grill as an exhaust fan and then by virtue of the pressure differential the outside ambient air will easily and automatically rush in through the empty front fan locations (And any other available holes) to fill the void and repeat the cycle.

Much like the string theory. It's very easy to PULL a string. Try pushing one sometime.
OEMs put exhaust fans only for convenience and in coegsistence with CPU cooler and PSU. I have reversed fans on numerous horizontal mini HP desktops with better results.
 

Darkbreeze

Titan
Moderator
We'll have to agree to disagree on that. It's not sound fundamental aerodynamics or pressure theory, but don't have time or inclination to argue it here today.

And no, that's not why OEMs do it. They do it because EXPANSIVE testing has shown that it is the best, cheap way, to offer acceptable levels of cooling without having to invest any more than is absolutely necessary. If putting that fan in the front made it cool better and didn't cost them any more than putting it in back as an exhaust does, you can be sure that is what they would do. It is no easier, or harder, to put it in either location, for them.
 

madmatt30

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Ambassador
I think we're traditionalists here when it comes to cooling.

The issue is the h510 has a design that isn't traditional
I had a conversation on another thread about these solid fronted nzxt cases.
Introducing intake fans on the front does absolutely nothing for cooling at all, they're awful for any kind of aio setup, they're not cases I'd personally recommend.

The best possible fan configuration in them absolutely appears to be the stock one nzxt supply with 2 exhausts, one rear, one rear top.

Nothing needs to be added or changed, it will only worsen internal cooling.

You will NEVER get great temps in these cases, only acceptable ones at best
 
Apr 3, 2020
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I think we're traditionalists here when it comes to cooling.

The issue is the h510 has a design that isn't traditional
I had a conversation on another thread about these solid fronted nzxt cases.
Introducing intake fans on the front does absolutely nothing for cooling at all, they're awful for any kind of aio setup, they're not cases I'd personally recommend.

The best possible fan configuration in them absolutely appears to be the stock one nzxt supply with 2 exhausts, one rear, one rear top.

Nothing needs to be added or changed, it will only worsen internal cooling.

You will NEVER get great temps in these cases, only acceptable ones at best
No, it's not good for any case, you need a directed air stream thru the case and that can be achieved only by having almost equal intake and exhaust in right place(s). Even all intake is better than all exhaust.
No, that's not how you cool ANY case. Period.

Front, side and bottom fans must ALWAYS be intake fans, and all rear and top fan locations must be exhaust fan orientations, for all ATX tower style cases. There may be a VERY FEW exceptions out there running specialty niche configurations, but those are not the norm and I don't recommend doing that in any case, regardless of the case model, if it is an ATX tower style case.

You run an all exhaust configuration with exhaust fans in all fan locations and you are going to have very crappy cooling performance, and probably ruin something.

Now, depending on the hardware, if you wanted to run ONLY a rear and top-rear fan, as exhaust, you might be able to get away with that so long as you had no fans installed in the remaining fan locations, but you sure as heck don't want to go installing exhaust fans everywhere.

Thanks, and honestly this is my first build and i went with a cheap case to get better hardware, and i watched tests and this case is utter garbage at cooling, but i knew the two case fans included were enough to keep the system cool, but being a beginner, i HAD to have RGB (lol). The other two exhust fans, not where the original ones came, are just for an asthetic purpose, since testing shows that those intake fans would be useless. Also, considering the air would take the path of least resistance, it would not suck all of its air through an intake one foot away, that also has a hard right angle before being exposed to outside air. From what i think, it would just suck the air from the vent holes right but the GPU, or through the bottom of the case, it just makes more sense. In addition overclocking is not in my future, and i have been running folding at home at max levels and my CPU is on the warm side, but nothing alarming, since it only has a stock cooler. While folding the case temp was also only a few degrees higher than ambient temps so i think i am good unless you have any counters tp my claims.
 
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Thanks, and honestly this is my first build and i went with a cheap case to get better hardware, and i watched tests and this case is utter garbage at cooling, but i knew the two case fans included were enough to keep the system cool, but being a beginner, i HAD to have RGB (lol). The other two exhust fans, not where the original ones came, are just for an asthetic purpose, since testing shows that those intake fans would be useless. Also, considering the air would take the path of least resistance, it would not suck all of its air through an intake one foot away, that also has a hard right angle before being exposed to outside air. From what i think, it would just suck the air from the vent holes right but the GPU, or through the bottom of the case, it just makes more sense. In addition overclocking is not in my future, and i have been running folding at home at max levels and my CPU is on the warm side, but nothing alarming, since it only has a stock cooler. While folding the case temp was also only a few degrees higher than ambient temps so i think i am good unless you have any counters tp my claims.
Well, if it works satisfactory for you, good for you but it's not optimal although much better than nothing. I commented about all intake because they can be directed to certain area which exhaust can't.
 
Apr 3, 2020
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30
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Well, if it works satisfactory for you, good for you but it's not optimal although much better than nothing. I commented about all intake because they can be directed to certain area which exhaust can't.
For sure, once a new case is in the budget it will be the first thing to buy that away i can have a proper setup with 3 intake and 2 exhust. But for now this is what i got, and i was mainly concerned if i was going to fry or destroy something.
 

madmatt30

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Ambassador
Thanks, and honestly this is my first build and i went with a cheap case to get better hardware, and i watched tests and this case is utter garbage at cooling, but i knew the two case fans included were enough to keep the system cool, but being a beginner, i HAD to have RGB (lol). The other two exhust fans, not where the original ones came, are just for an asthetic purpose, since testing shows that those intake fans would be useless. Also, considering the air would take the path of least resistance, it would not suck all of its air through an intake one foot away, that also has a hard right angle before being exposed to outside air. From what i think, it would just suck the air from the vent holes right but the GPU, or through the bottom of the case, it just makes more sense. In addition overclocking is not in my future, and i have been running folding at home at max levels and my CPU is on the warm side, but nothing alarming, since it only has a stock cooler. While folding the case temp was also only a few degrees higher than ambient temps so i think i am good unless you have any counters tp my claims.
Im with CountMike, I'm not going to make any counter claims on a build that's not mine or I haven't seen in the flesh.

If temps are acceptable they're acceptable.

I'll likely never use any of the solid fronted nzxt cases in any builds (meaning never) because they don't conform to my needs or beliefs when it comes to case cooling.

The best thing that can be said about them is they work (just) at acceptable levels.

So much better options about for the same or less money though.
 
Apr 3, 2020
34
0
30
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Im with CountMike, I'm not going to make any counter claims on a build that's not mine or I haven't seen in the flesh.

If temps are acceptable they're acceptable.

I'll likely never use any of the solid fronted nzxt cases in any builds (meaning never) because they don't conform to my needs or beliefs when it comes to case cooling.

The best thing that can be said about them is they work (just) at acceptable levels.

So much better options about for the same or less money though.
ok thanks once again, any suggestions for cases i have an atx size motherboard.
 

madmatt30

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ok thanks once again, any suggestions for cases i have an atx size motherboard.
If you already own it and temps are acceptable just use it.

I'm not an advocate of wasting money unnecessarily.

That said if you do already own in and wanted rgb honestly what you should have done is bought a cheap led strip or two and an aftermarket rgb cooler
 

FoxVoxDK

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Jul 5, 2014
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There are many different views and takes on how to supply cold air or remove warm air to/from a case.

Generally, the big problem with most fans that we have available in our cases are generally of very little force/power, with VERY scattered air flow, combined with little to no actual air channeling.
Being able to move a lot of air, does not mean a fan has the pressure to maintain that flow of air, and the fans that do are by my generation named "screamers", they are violent, dangerous and supremely loud things, and is typically shielded by metal wire, they have absolutely no business in the average users home.
They are often used in server racks though, with a very specific air-channel that passes everything on its violent rush through the drawer/slide.

The most important thing you can achieve in almost any case is the simple act of moving stale or "stuck" air in your case. Hot air will, slowly, very slowly rise and from your components point of view may as well be standing still.
And this is where I wish the Gospel of the almighty and all knowledgeable Steve would be taken seriously; we need side intakes, and we love mesh fronts. But that's not always enough.

Take my case as an example. It's a HAF X, I have owned this case for 10 years, I have a 230mm fan in the front, a 200mm on the side and on top I have 2x200mm fans, below those is a Fractal S36 with 3 Arctic p12s.
The 200mm fans are great air movers as long as they don't have to work hard, the amount of intake and exhaust fans are equal and thus without a lot of interference you have movement that resembles something that COULD channel air, with acceptable if not spectacular airflow. That facts though? There is no where near enough power in those fans to push the air up. Thus, there's no real channel of air here, just "hit this bit with fresh air and hopefully push warm air away".

So how do we get that warm air to the top of the case to be exhausted? The 2x200mm will definitely try to remove any warm air that is immediately near them, but most of the air they actually reach, will be pulled from the mesh front and which ever other opening are closest in the vicinity.
In my case I have no air CPU cooler, so I have no means of moving the warm air now conveniently located right above the GPU, with fresh air keeping it somewhat cool, instead I have the NZXT X41 mounted on the rear exhaust, which will in time slowly remove some of the warm air there, but not quite fast enough.

And here's my solution, I placed 2 NF-A12x25's right above the graphics card, finally adding the last bit of circulation needed to move the air from the stagnant middle of the case to the top, right past the X41 and into the S36 and what ever misses that, gets fed into the top 2x200mm.

This is a case specific solution, but the holy grail of great temps, is circulation and the ability to move air not just into and out of your case, but to also be able to direct air around IN your case. Literally no fans outside of very powerful and dangerous ones, are capable of brute force channeling air to every component of your PC, while also expelling it.
The exception here are of course mini/micro ITX builds, and those have their own challenges, with too many obstructions and again to little fan power.

This is by no means a bash on anyone here, just an example of how I dealt with temperatures a good deal higher than ambient in some places in my case.
Now, my case is generally just 2-3 degrees above ambient, and I consider that a great success, just don't ask how many zip ties are required.(4, the number is 4).
 
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Zerk2012

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The h510 is designed for negative pressure more or less just using the 2 stock fan spots although their have been reviews that say adding a single front top position intake showes a bit of better cooling performance.
 

Phaaze88

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I find myself having to copy-paste this when it comes to NZXT's H500 series - EXCEPT the Elite; that chassis is so bloody overpriced and offers NOTHING from the other 500s.
The H510 isn't THAT bad, if it's set up correctly; most people do it wrong, so that doesn't help it's case.

The optimal setup would be:
A)The large radiator space should be reserved for the hottest part between the gpu and the cpu here; with gaming graphics cards, it's the gpu. It should be setup to a 240 or 280mm Asetek-made liquid cooler using a Kraken G12 - or EVGA's Hybrid gpu cooler kit, if you have a FTW3 card.
If you're using a 20 series gpu, thermal pads and heatsinks will be needed for the memory.
Also, the AIO/CLC fans should be set to pull air through the rad - avoid push.

B)The cpu is left to be cooled on air. Basically put the strongest air cooler you can fit in there on it.
Done.


With all the chassis thermal testing I did over the last couple of weeks, I don't run exhaust fans anymore, but I don't have a normal setup.

This is a case specific solution, but the holy grail of great temps, is circulation and the ability to move air not just into and out of your case, but to also be able to direct air around IN your case. Literally no fans outside of very powerful and dangerous ones, are capable of brute force channeling air to every component of your PC, while also expelling it.
Noctua IPPC 3000, FTW!
🧀
 
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madmatt30

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I find myself having to copy-paste this when it comes to NZXT's H500 series - EXCEPT the Elite; that chassis is so bloody overpriced and offers NOTHING from the other 500s.
The H510 isn't THAT bad, if it's set up correctly; most people do it wrong, so that doesn't help it's case.

The optimal setup would be:
A)The large radiator space should be reserved for the hottest part between the gpu and the cpu here; with gaming graphics cards, it's the gpu. It should be setup to a 240 or 280mm Asetek-made liquid cooler using a Kraken G12 - or EVGA's Hybrid gpu cooler kit, if you have a FTW3 card.
If you're using a 20 series gpu, thermal pads and heatsinks will be needed for the memory.
Also, the AIO/CLC fans should be set to pull air through the rad - avoid push.

B)The cpu is left to be cooled on air. Basically put the strongest air cooler you can fit in there on it.
Done.


With all the chassis thermal testing I did over the last couple of weeks, I don't run exhaust fans anymore, but I don't have a normal setup.


Noctua IPPC 3000, FTW!
🧀
To say a case isn't THAT bad is as damning as saying it is THAT bad in essence ;-)

Honestly though the only people who stick up for the nzxt 500 series are the people who bought them mistakenly thinking they're a good case when they're not.

Yes they're well built, they look the part BUT on cooling performance they're completely subpar, there's no way around that, it's a fact.

The phanteks p series have always been better at the same price point going back 4 or 5 years, they just don't look as nice and aesthetics seems to take priority nowadays over anything else.

I've seen $30 cases that perform better for all their faults regarding their actual build quality.
 

Darkbreeze

Titan
Moderator
There are many different views and takes on how to supply cold air or remove warm air to/from a case.

Generally, the big problem with most fans that we have available in our cases are generally of very little force/power, with VERY scattered air flow, combined with little to no actual air channeling.
Being able to move a lot of air, does not mean a fan has the pressure to maintain that flow of air, and the fans that do are by my generation named "screamers", they are violent, dangerous and supremely loud things, and is typically shielded by metal wire, they have absolutely no business in the average users home.
They are often used in server racks though, with a very specific air-channel that passes everything on its violent rush through the drawer/slide.

The most important thing you can achieve in almost any case is the simple act of moving stale or "stuck" air in your case. Hot air will, slowly, very slowly rise and from your components point of view may as well be standing still.
And this is where I wish the Gospel of the almighty and all knowledgeable Steve would be taken seriously; we need side intakes, and we love mesh fronts. But that's not always enough.

Take my case as an example. It's a HAF X, I have owned this case for 10 years, I have a 230mm fan in the front, a 200mm on the side and on top I have 2x200mm fans, below those is a Fractal S36 with 3 Arctic p12s.
The 200mm fans are great air movers as long as they don't have to work hard, the amount of intake and exhaust fans are equal and thus without a lot of interference you have movement that resembles something that COULD channel air, with acceptable if not spectacular airflow. That facts though? There is no where near enough power in those fans to push the air up. Thus, there's no real channel of air here, just "hit this bit with fresh air and hopefully push warm air away".

So how do we get that warm air to the top of the case to be exhausted? The 2x200mm will definitely try to remove any warm air that is immediately near them, but most of the air they actually reach, will be pulled from the mesh front and which ever other opening are closest in the vicinity.
In my case I have no air CPU cooler, so I have no means of moving the warm air now conveniently located right above the GPU, with fresh air keeping it somewhat cool, instead I have the NZXT X41 mounted on the rear exhaust, which will in time slowly remove some of the warm air there, but not quite fast enough.

And here's my solution, I placed 2 NF-A12x25's right above the graphics card, finally adding the last bit of circulation needed to move the air from the stagnant middle of the case to the top, right past the X41 and into the S36 and what ever misses that, gets fed into the top 2x200mm.

This is a case specific solution, but the holy grail of great temps, is circulation and the ability to move air not just into and out of your case, but to also be able to direct air around IN your case. Literally no fans outside of very powerful and dangerous ones, are capable of brute force channeling air to every component of your PC, while also expelling it.
The exception here are of course mini/micro ITX builds, and those have their own challenges, with too many obstructions and again to little fan power.

This is by no means a bash on anyone here, just an example of how I dealt with temperatures a good deal higher than ambient in some places in my case.
Now, my case is generally just 2-3 degrees above ambient, and I consider that a great success, just don't ask how many zip ties are required.(4, the number is 4).
 

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