News Alleged AMD Zen 5 Specs Leak: Twice the Cores, 15% Increased IPC Over Ryzen 7000

[Admin]

A new leak has revealed highly in-depth architectural details about AMD's Zen 5 and Zen 6 CPU architectures, including core architectural improvements and IPC gains.

Alleged AMD Zen 5 Specs Leak: Twice the Cores, 15% Increased IPC Over Ryzen 7000 : Read more

 

[Order 66]

A 32 core 64 thread 8950x running at 4+ GHz base clock would be a beast. It would probably make most of the existing Threadripper lineup obsolete considering a 2990wx scores 30,000 pts in cinebench r23 and I would expect this to crush it in cinebench.

 

[Makaveli]

I'm going to go from Zen 3 to Zen 5 so looks like that will be a 25-30% IPC increase going to be real nice.

 

[suryasans]

Finally, AMD will have a dedicated full width 512 bit Vector Floating Point on its CPU cores.

 

[TerryLaze]

A 32 core 64 thread 8950x

Unless TSMC is going to start giving out cores for free I don't see this happening, it would be way too expensive to make them (AMD) money, and that's if there even are enough people that would buy such a cpu in the mainstream market.

Also if it will have 4nm which is a refinement of 5nm and not a new node, it will either need a lot more power (can current mobos provide more than the ppt? ) or they will run extremely slow if they are all loaded which will not look good.

For server these things all make total sense, for the mainstream market they don't make any sense at all.

 

[AgentBirdnest]

If they double the core count per CCX, I am betting half would be efficiency cores.
That was my initial thought when I saw the headline... then I opened the article to see the source, and immediately disregarded this leak.

 

[Order 66]

Unless TSMC is going to start giving out cores for free I don't see this happening, it would be way too expensive to make them (AMD) money, and that's if there even are enough people that would buy such a cpu in the mainstream market.

Also if it will have 4nm which is a refinement of 5nm and not a new node, it will either need a lot more power (can current mobos provide more than the ppt? ) or they will run extremely slow if they are all loaded which will not look good.

For server these things all make total sense, for the mainstream market they don't make any sense at all.

There is an intel motherboard that can provide 400w (I know it's an intel board but what is stopping motherboard manufacturers from doing a similar power delivery system) so I don't think power would be an issue, but as the chip doesn't exist yet it is impossible to know. Yes, most people wouldn't buy these but I bet enthusiasts and people who love to overclock would love to get this thing to 5GHz on all (potential) 32 cores. this would probably be some threadripper replacement.

 

[TerryLaze]

There is an intel motherboard that can provide 400w (I know it's an intel board but what is stopping motherboard manufacturers from doing a similar power delivery system) so I don't think power would be an issue,

Since AMD promised a long life cycle on mobos, having to get a new mobo to really use the new CPUs would be terrible PR. The crowd would probably get more angry about that then about slow CPUs.

 

[Order 66]

Since AMD promised a long life cycle on mobos, having to get a new mobo to really use the new CPUs would be terrible PR. The crowd would probably get more angry about that then about slow CPUs.

That's I good point, however if you are upgrading from Zen 3 then you will have to buy a new mobo anyway. I highly doubt that a lot of people will upgrade from zen 4 to zen 5. I am not planning to at least.

 

[hotaru251]

A 32 core 64 thread 8950x running at 4+ GHz base clock would be a beast

the article said the leaks were for the EPYC lineup. not the mainstream lineup.

Intel might as well just stop competing for server if its true...they can barely keep up as is.

 

[AgentBirdnest]

the article said the leaks were for the EPYC lineup. not the mainstream lineup.

No, the article says it is for "EYPC" CPUs. A new series, perhaps? : P

 

[derekullo]

the article said the leaks were for the EPYC lineup. not the mainstream lineup.

Intel might as well just stop competing for server if its true...they can barely keep up as is.

Intel has similar core counts on the Xeon line versus AMD Threadripper.

Xeon Platinum 8490H Processor with 60 cores and 120 threads.

AMD Ryzen Threadripper PRO 5995WX with 64 cores and 128 threads.

Tom's reported earlier this year that AMD only had an 18% market share of the server market

AMD and Intel CPU Market Share Report: Recovery on the Horizon (Updated)

Hope is on the horizon, mostly.

www.tomshardware.com

AMD's market share is definitely rising but Intel isn't out just yet.

Now if AMD comes out with a 128 core 256 thread CPU then Intel might be in some trouble if they don't have a cpu with similar specs.

But even then not every business needs the top of the line $5000-$10000+ CPU

 

[TheJoker2020]

If they double the core count per CCX, I am betting half would be efficiency cores.
That was my initial thought when I saw the headline... then I opened the article to see the source, and immediately disregarded this leak.

I strongly suggest that you watch the video rather than read the above article from someone who has very clearly NOT watched the video.!

I stopped reading the above article when the writer stated, "Another considerable improvement revealed from the leaked slides is the core configuration of Zen 5's CCXs (core complexes), which have been doubled from 8 to 16. The new change marks the first time since Zen 2 that AMD has bothered to increase the core count of its CCXs, which means that we could see a 32-core "Ryzen 9 8950X" in the future."

Firstly, the writer appears to not know the existence of the 128-core AMD EPYC CPU's that use 8x 16-core Zen 4c CCD's.

And also the writer is strongly suggesting that the default Zen 5 CCD will be 16-cores. AMD are right now manufacturing two different CCD's, 8-core Zen 4, and 16-core Zen 4c. One is designed for overall performance per core, the other for performance per watt and core count.

The "default" CCD right now is Zen 4, with Zen 4c being a derivative designed afterwards, I cannot imagine this changing, and certainly for desktops and laptops the "default" will be the 8-core Zen 5 CCD's as they deliver higher single threaded performance, and that is what primarily matter for those use cases.

Now on to the answer to your point / question.

Zen 5 will be 8-cores per CCD (chiplet), there will be an X3D option.
Zen 5c will be 16-cores per CCD (chiplet), it is less likely that there will be an X3D option.
Zen 5c will be the Zen 5 version of Zen 4c, optimized for performance per watt and doubling core-count without sacrificing IPC, with the tradeoff being lower clock-speeds and less L3 cache.

AMD could make any combination of the above, but the limit is very likely going to be 2x CCD's (chiplets) per CPU.

 

[TheJoker2020]

Now if AMD comes out with a 128 core 256 thread CPU then Intel might be in some trouble if they don't have a cpu with similar specs.

AMD EPYC 9754 Benchmarks For The 128-Core Bergamo Review - Phoronix

www.phoronix.com

You will enjoy reading this more than Intel will.

 

[Li Ken-un]

A 32 core 64 thread 8950x running at 4+ GHz base clock would be a beast. It would probably make most of the existing Threadripper lineup obsolete

But with only 24 PCIe lanes, it only wins a part of the metrics. People also go for HEDT for the 64+ PCIe lanes.

 

[peachpuff]

AMD EPYC 9754 Benchmarks For The 128-Core Bergamo Review - Phoronix

www.phoronix.com

You will enjoy reading this more than Intel will.

Something wrong with those graphs? Intel is at the bottom in all of them 😂

 

[vertuallinsanity]

Unless TSMC is going to start giving out cores for free I don't see this happening, it would be way too expensive to make them (AMD) money, and that's if there even are enough people that would buy such a cpu in the mainstream market.

Also if it will have 4nm which is a refinement of 5nm and not a new node, it will either need a lot more power (can current mobos provide more than the ppt? ) or they will run extremely slow if they are all loaded which will not look good.

For server these things all make total sense, for the mainstream market they don't make any sense at all.

The 4nm node to which you refer (N4X) was for mobile chips on FinFet and is from 2021.

TSMC and Samsung are working  actual 3nm and 4nm nodes today. The individual transistors are actually that size. No more fake Intel naming scheme nonsense to introduce confusion..

The big issues, early on, for both TSMC and Samsung were leakage current, power scaling increases between 7, 5, 4, 3 and yields.

Both companies have been improving node yields and testing or using different gate shielding for individual transistors. FinFet is a three sided gate and GAA is a 4 sided gate. Four sided is less leakage but a newer process.

Samsung started 3nm with GAA. TSMC started 3nm runs on FinFet and are now doing runs with GAA (Gate All Around).

 

[vertuallinsanity]

My actual (not MLID) take on this:

It's gonna be cool, man!

If it's within power spec, and I think it is, we could see desktop cpus with 32 cores for sure.
A CCX with (8) low-power cores and (8) "regular strength" cores with multi-layer cache shared between all cores to make a bitchin' new CCD.

Take two of those CCDs, IO and some new code to make everything work together.

No clue how it compares with Intel (yet) but I'd like to..

 

[rluker5]

Zen's improved IPC will help. Unfortunately improved IPC also comes with increased heat output.

The node will help, but sticking to the same motherboard means the same chonky IHS will be used and temps will be more of a challenge than they are now due to increased thermal density.

If AMD abandoned AM5 they could improve their cooling. Dang shame they have been using that as such a selling point.

It should mostly affect retail consumers as their top priority server chips run slower and cooler per mm2.

 

[sitehostplus]

A 32 core 64 thread 8950x running at 4+ GHz base clock would be a beast. It would probably make most of the existing Threadripper lineup obsolete considering a 2990wx scores 30,000 pts in cinebench r23 and I would expect this to crush it in cinebench.

I'm thinking that IS the new Threadripper.

No way AMD releases something that powerful to desktop.

 

[Alvar "Miles" Udell]

Considering Zen 4 had a very modest IPC increase over Zen 3 (8-10% stated by AMD, somewhat backed up by TH's small test) I would say 15% is the least AMD should target for Zen 5 across the board since they cannot rely on clock speed increases to inflate the numbers, if the clock speeds are able to be increased at all given the higher core densities, especially in EPYC chips as well as any 3D cache desktop chips.

 

[TerryLaze]

The 4nm node to which you refer (N4X) was for mobile chips on FinFet and is from 2021.

TSMC and Samsung are working  actual 3nm and 4nm nodes today. The individual transistors are actually that size. No more fake Intel naming scheme nonsense to introduce confusion..

The big issues, early on, for both TSMC and Samsung were leakage current, power scaling increases between 7, 5, 4, 3 and yields.

Both companies have been improving node yields and testing or using different gate shielding for individual transistors. FinFet is a three sided gate and GAA is a 4 sided gate. Four sided is less leakage but a newer process.

Samsung started 3nm with GAA. TSMC started 3nm runs on FinFet and are now doing runs with GAA (Gate All Around).

I'm just going with what TSMC themselves are saying about 4nm.

https://www.tsmc.com/english/dedicatedFoundry/technology/logic/l_5nm

In addition, TSMC plans to launch 4nm (N4) technology, an enhanced version of N5 technology. N4 provides further enhancement in performance, power and density for the next wave of N5 products.

 

[usertests]

My actual (not MLID) take on this:

It's gonna be cool, man!

If it's within power spec, and I think it is, we could see desktop cpus with 32 cores for sure.
A CCX with (8) low-power cores and (8) "regular strength" cores with multi-layer cache shared between all cores to make a bitchin' new CCD.

Take two of those CCDs, IO and some new code to make everything work together.

No clue how it compares with Intel (yet) but I'd like to..

It's questionable. The possible maximums are 16-core Zen 5, 24-core (8x Zen 5 + 16x Zen 5c), and 32-core Zen 5C. The likeliest outcome is 16-core only, merely a repeat of the Zen 4 generation.

I don't think AMD will mix Zen 6 and Zen 6C cores on a single desktop/server CCD. However, in mobile you will see core types mixed on the same die, possibly using different cell types to optimize clocks and area/efficiency with FinFlex.

We don't know about Zen 6 non-C chiplets yet, but more than 8 cores on a CCD seems likely at that point, which would lead to a big shakeup of AMD's desktop lineup. No more 6/8/12/16.

 

[DavidLejdar]

That's I good point, however if you are upgrading from Zen 3 then you will have to buy a new mobo anyway. I highly doubt that a lot of people will upgrade from zen 4 to zen 5. I am not planning to at least.

Actually, at least some of the current-gen MBs seem to be able to deliver quite some power. Your mobo has a 8-pin 12V connector there at the top, and an additional 4-pin 12V connector next to it. Mine does too. The purpose of it is to support the CPU. And it does add up to 576 watts.

Whether one would want to run a CPU with a TDP of 400+W, which in case of badly optimized software may end up running at peak for hours (and needing proper cooling for it), that is a bit different topic of course. But technically, our mobos could already sport it (and my PSU could as well). And for me personally, it was one of the reasons why I went with AMD this time, so I could easily upgrade just the CPU, eventually.

 

[hannibal]

A 32 core 64 thread 8950x running at 4+ GHz base clock would be a beast. It would probably make most of the existing Threadripper lineup obsolete considering a 2990wx scores 30,000 pts in cinebench r23 and I would expect this to crush it in cinebench.

as it Was said. These are enterprice upgrades. Not sure if the ram in consumer versions can feed that many cores… so i would not be surpriced if consumer products would remain with 8 cores per chip. Another option ks that 8950x will use one 16 core chip AMD 8800x will use one 8 core chip. That sounds possible for consumer products.