[SOLVED] AM4 futureproofing?

[Deer87]

Howdy fellas,
I recently ordered a 5600 xt gpu (long story short, still waiting for it) but from what i can gather, i should upgrade my cpu as well in order to actually benefit from my new gpu when et eventually arrives.

I currently have a GTX 960 Strix (4gb) and a i5-4690k.
Im pretty annoyed at Intel for their frequent changes in socket format, and ive read good things about ryzen, so im looking at team red at the moment.

MY QUESTION:
I look at Ryzen 3600 (i really like the TDP of 65 watt) with good reviews and it seems like a more than adequate partner for the 5600xt. I think (and here I would like some feedback) that with a B450-I mobo (i use mini-ITX) i should have headroom for an upgrade to zen 3 somewhere in the future either a 5600x or 5800x, but is that overly optimistic? Should i instead go for a 3700x or 5600x immediately?
I am aware that zen 3 is the last one to use AM4.
Current prices:
3600: 1600 Danish kr
5600x: 2400 Danish kr
3700x: 2450 Danish kr

Im a somewhat casual 1080p gamer, who is looking for the upgrade that should last for at least 5 years. (my old build is from 2015 and is still runnning okay, so i have my hopes up on this point).
I currently play/want to play: Bannerlord, RDR2, Deus Ex MD, Civ 6. Hopefully Cyberpunk 2077, Evil Genius 2, Baldurs Gate 3 and so on in the future.

Thank you in advance

 

[Lutfij]

You should look at the B550 chipsets instead and keep in mind that you might need to flash the BIOS to the latest version before you can drop the Ryzen 5000 series processor in there. If you intend to stick to the Ryzen 3000 series, you can work with any B450 chipset or B550 chipset so long as the label on the box says Ryzen 3000 series supported.

By my understanding all new boards coming out of the factory should have the latest BIOS update on them in order for you to drop the latest 5000 series processor into the socket, though I'm not referring to the older stock boards being sold now. I know of some shops updating the BIOS at their end in order to help rotate (older)stock of their motherboards.

 

[Deer87]

You should look at the B550 chipsets instead and keep in mind that you might need to flash the BIOS to the latest version before you can drop the Ryzen 5000 series processor in there. If you intend to stick to the Ryzen 3000 series, you can work with any B450 chipset or B550 chipset so long as the label on the box says Ryzen 3000 series supported.

By my understanding all new boards coming out of the factory should have the latest BIOS update on them in order for you to drop the latest 5000 series processor into the socket, though I'm not referring to the older stock boards being sold now. I know of some shops updating the BIOS at their end in order to help rotate (older)stock of their motherboards.

Okay, so B550 due to improved functionality or mainly to avoid too much hazzle updating the bios if I decide to throw a 5xxx into it at a later point?

 

[Krotow]

Keep in mind that Zen3 most likely is last AMD CPU generation for AM4 socket. Luckily it seems capable enough to work without performance issues with current games and new games for next few years ahead. Then most likely price for 5900X or even 5950X CPU will drop to affordable level. B550 chipset so far is on par with X570 if you have good B550 board with good VRMs (10+2 and above). So future proofing with Zen3 CPUs + B550 board for next 4-6 years is not overexaggeration.

You must update B550 BIOS anyway. Not only for Zen3 CPU support, but also to resolve XMP profile recognizing issues, NVMe drive support and to fix 2.5G Ethernet adapter reboot glitches.

 

[geofelt]

The 5600 XT card will be a nice boost in graphics card capability.
My suggestion is to first update graphics and then decide if you need a cpu upgrade.

In the mean time, try this simple test:
Run YOUR games, but lower your resolution and eye candy.
This makes the graphics card loaf a bit.
If your FPS increases, it indicates that your cpu is strong enough to drive a better graphics configuration.
If your FPS stays the same, you are likely more cpu limited.

If you decide that you need a stronger cpu, you might be able to do a upgrade to a i7-4790K, or by overclocking.

Anything else is going to need a new platform . That means not only cpu, but also a new motherboard and ddr4 ram.

Nothing in computing is truly "future proof"
What you buy today will be superseded by new tech in two years.
DDR5 is coming along with new tech processors and pcie 5.0
The best you can do is to buy today what you need for today and for perhaps 2 years.

Today, ryzen 5600x is the real deal with some 20% better IPC for single thread performance.
That is what games need most.
In March, Intel rocket lake will launch with similar improvements.

Games are usually limited by the graphics card and not so much by the cpu.
For example, a $125 I3-10100 with 8 threads is about twice the capability of your 4690k.
Here is a review of the i3-10100, it competes with the 3600:
https://www.techpowerup.com/review/intel-core-i3-10100/15.html

I am not particularly recommending the i3-10100 but pointing out that you need to assess YOUR needs.
See how you do with the new graphics card first.

 

[drea.drechsler]

...

MY QUESTION:
I look at Ryzen 3600 (i really like the TDP of 65 watt) with good reviews and it seems like a more than adequate partner for the 5600xt. I think (and here I would like some feedback) that with a B450-I mobo (i use mini-ITX) i should have headroom for an upgrade to zen 3 somewhere in the future either a 5600x or 5800x, but is that overly optimistic? Should i instead go for a 3700x or 5600x immediately?
I am aware that zen 3 is the last one to use AM4.
Current prices:
3600: 1600 Danish kr
5600x: 2400 Danish kr
3700x: 2450 Danish kr

Im a somewhat casual 1080p gamer, who is looking for the upgrade that should last for at least 5 years. (my old build is from 2015 and is still runnning okay, so i have my hopes up on this point).
I currently play/want to play: Bannerlord, RDR2, Deus Ex MD, Civ 6. Hopefully Cyberpunk 2077, Evil Genius 2, Baldurs Gate 3 and so on in the future.

Thank you in advance

If buying new I'd agree go with B550-i over B450-i. It's 'future proofing' because it will support PCIe gen 4 should it amount to a significant factor in performance with future hardware. At the current time it doesn't and it's major advantage is allowing for a lot of gen 4 peripherals by spreading around the gen 4 lanes without loss of effective bandwidth (compared to doing the same with gen 3 lanes). But installing a lot of peripherals is not really what mini-ITX platform is good at.

For gaming, 6 cores/12 threads is all most people really need. So for that alone a 5600X will be as far as you'd need to go on AM4. So considering an 8 core CPU (5800x) a viable future-proofing path for an upgrade depends entirely on whether you fully utilize the extra cores.

 

[BogdanH]

It is very difficult to give objective advice, because nobody can really know what things are important to you. Yes, you can say i.e. I use Photoshop, but impossible to know what you mean by saying "use". Similar with gaming. I'm casual gamer, so I don't care if my game runs at 80fps or 162fps.. or even 60fps -I just enjoy the game instead of counting frames (btw. I have 5600XT). I'm saying all this just so you're aware, that we all give our personal opinions and advice -they're all valid, but you need to find out which meets your needs and expectations.
You say, you wish to buy system for at least next 5 years... First, go directly for 5600X (or 5800X) -otherwise it will probably happen you'll buy CPU twice. Yes, it's a bit expensive, but in total, still cheaper than buying twice. Keeping that in mind, forget 3600.

Motherboard.. ok, get B550 if you can get it for decent price. However, if you can get good B450 for much less, then you just saved some money for nice quiet CPU cooler . Yes, B550 has PCIe 4.0 -but let me tell you.. in real world usage, there's no difference in speed -and it will stay so for next 5+ years. The only reason to choose B550 would be if you decide for 5800X CPU and you can't find B450 with good enough power delivery (VRM), because 5800X needs a bit better than 5600X.

As mentioned by Krotow, according to AMD, 5000 series CPU is the generation that supports AM4 socket. So choose wisely and you'll be happy for many years to come.

Just sharing my thoughts

 

[Deer87]

The 5600 XT card will be a nice boost in graphics card capability.
My suggestion is to first update graphics and then decide if you need a cpu upgrade.

In the mean time, try this simple test:
Run YOUR games, but lower your resolution and eye candy.
This makes the graphics card loaf a bit.
If your FPS increases, it indicates that your cpu is strong enough to drive a better graphics configuration.
If your FPS stays the same, you are likely more cpu limited.

If you decide that you need a stronger cpu, you might be able to do a upgrade to a i7-4790K, or by overclocking.

Anything else is going to need a new platform . That means not only cpu, but also a new motherboard and ddr4 ram.

Nothing in computing is truly "future proof"
What you buy today will be superseded by new tech in two years.
DDR5 is coming along with new tech processors and pcie 5.0
The best you can do is to buy today what you need for today and for perhaps 2 years.

Today, ryzen 5600x is the real deal with some 20% better IPC for single thread performance.
That is what games need most.
In March, Intel rocket lake will launch with similar improvements.

Games are usually limited by the graphics card and not so much by the cpu.
For example, a $125 I3-10100 with 8 threads is about twice the capability of your 4690k.
Here is a review of the i3-10100, it competes with the 3600:
https://www.techpowerup.com/review/intel-core-i3-10100/15.html

I am not particularly recommending the i3-10100 but pointing out that you need to assess YOUR needs.
See how you do with the new graphics card first.

Okay, I can definitely get on board with the waiting till I've seen the new gpu in action.
I won't get a 4790 though, they cost almost the same as a ryzen 3600+mobo and ram and are more than 5 years old tech.
When I talk about future proofing I know it it's a lost cause, but I buildt my current pc with okay high quality and its still not a bad pc, so the next upgrade, whenever it happens will be midrange but relatively new tech again.
The reason I consider new Cpu (and mobo and ram) is that I wanna game RDR2 and Bannerlord and they are both pretty Cpu demanding, from what I can read.
On the other hand, I'm not in a hurry, so currently I'm just looking around for a good lay of the lands. I haven't completely ruled out Intel yet, but as I said, Im annoyed that they upgrade the socket all the time, and ryzen seems to be more efficient in terms of power consumption.

 

[Deer87]

It is very difficult to give objective advice, because nobody can really know what things are important to you. Yes, you can say i.e. I use Photoshop, but impossible to know what you mean by saying "use". Similar with gaming. I'm casual gamer, so I don't care if my game runs at 80fps or 162fps.. or even 60fps -I just enjoy the game instead of counting frames (btw. I have 5600XT). I'm saying all this just so you're aware, that we all give our personal opinions and advice -they're all valid, but you need to find out which meets your needs and expectations.
You say, you wish to buy system for at least next 5 years... First, go directly for 5600X (or 5800X) -otherwise it will probably happen you'll buy CPU twice. Yes, it's a bit expensive, but in total, still cheaper than buying twice. Keeping that in mind, forget 3600.

Motherboard.. ok, get B550 if you can get it for decent price. However, if you can get good B450 for much less, then you just saved some money for nice quiet CPU cooler . Yes, B550 has PCIe 4.0 -but let me tell you.. in real world usage, there's no difference in speed -and it will stay so for next 5+ years. The only reason to choose B550 would be if you decide for 5800X CPU and you can't find B450 with good enough power delivery (VRM), because 5800X needs a bit better than 5600X.

As mentioned by Krotow, according to AMD, 5000 series CPU is the generation that supports AM4 socket. So choose wisely and you'll be happy for many years to come.

Just sharing my thoughts

Really good input. And I think it sounds like we have comparable demands to gaming. I like it smooth and quiet, but I don't count frames. What 5600xt do you have, and what is your experience?

I can save around 500 kr (100$ish) by sticking to b450, and I don't plan on using at lot of extra Pcie. So that could be a good point. I already have a Noctua 12s, so I should be settled in that department.

Might look out for a good deal at 5600x from the beginning then.

 

[BogdanH]

What 5600xt do you have, and what is your experience?

I have Sapphire Pulse, which I've bough about 10 months ago (when prices were still normal). I think all cards I've bough in last decade were Sapphire -prices are usually adequate and visually, cards don't look like some "transformers"... Otherwise, I think all cards/brands perform the same, so you pick the one that appeals you.
What I like about this card is, by default fans don't spin at all in normal use (silence is blessing). Fans start spinning above 50°C, which is at gaming only -I guess other brands behave similar, though. And is not only about silence. Fans on graphic cards are smaller than case fans and spin faster. Means, they wear out sooner and can start making "weird" noise after few years (keep in mind that these fans aren't that easy to find and replace). So, if they're not spinning at everyday use, they might last.. forever

New Intel CPU's are expected to be announced in mid March and I just don't believe they'll be cheaper than similar performing AMD. However, some of the motherboards for Intel's new socket are already announced and prices seems to be quite high (ok, mostly high performance mobo's are being introduced at this time). But then, Intel's boards were always a bit more pricey than those for AMD.
Performance wise (from what we know), I think new Intel CPU won't be any better than current AMD -they will just "behave" differently (by having "big" and "small" cores). Time will tell... Anyway, buy what suits you now and not what might be better in 2 years..

 

[Deer87]

I have Sapphire Pulse, which I've bough about 10 months ago (when prices were still normal). I think all cards I've bough in last decade were Sapphire -prices are usually adequate and visually, cards don't look like some "transformers"... Otherwise, I think all cards/brands perform the same, so you pick the one that appeals you.
What I like about this card is, by default fans don't spin at all in normal use (silence is blessing). Fans start spinning above 50°C, which is at gaming only -I guess other brands behave similar, though. And is not only about silence. Fans on graphic cards are smaller than case fans and spin faster. Means, they wear out sooner and can start making "weird" noise after few years (keep in mind that these fans aren't that easy to find and replace). So, if they're not spinning at everyday use, they might last.. forever

New Intel CPU's are expected to be announced in mid March and I just don't believe they'll be cheaper than similar performing AMD. However, some of the motherboards for Intel's new socket are already announced and prices seems to be quite high (ok, mostly high performance mobo's are being introduced at this time). But then, Intel's boards were always a bit more pricey than those for AMD.
Performance wise (from what we know), I think new Intel CPU won't be any better than current AMD -they will just "behave" differently (by having "big" and "small" cores). Time will tell... Anyway, buy what suits you now and not what might be better in 2 years..

Cool, it's also a Sappire 5600 XT pulse that I've ordered. For a prise only marginally above the lowest I've seen. But I don't know if I'll ever see it. The store is required by law to honor the deal, but if there is no card, there is no card. Im really looking forward for it though. On the other hand, if they will give me a good deal on a 3060 I might be willing to swap.

 

[Krotow]

Luckily you can find most GPU fan replacements in eBay and Aliexpress for adequate price. The only problem now is slow delivery speed caused by overburdened shipping companies and lockdowns in countries at middle. Until your fan(s arrive, you can make makeshift cooler from unused CPU or case coolers.

I didn't expect that Intel will be able to squeeze out much performance from their existing CPU architecture without cranking up the clock speed and turning their CPUs into oven heaters (that is what they are doing now). They must shrink element size on die (I believe they can even skip 7nm and go directly to 5nm) as first and reorganize CPU parts for better performance somehow. Something like AMD did with chiplets and cache in Zen2/3.

 

[Deer87]

Luckily you can find most GPU fan replacements in eBay and Aliexpress for adequate price. The only problem now is slow delivery speed caused by overburdened shipping companies and lockdowns in countries at middle. Until your fan(s arrive, you can make makeshift cooler from unused CPU or case coolers.

I didn't expect that Intel will be able to squeeze out much performance from their existing CPU architecture without cranking up the clock speed and turning their CPUs into oven heaters (that is what they are doing now). They must shrink element size on die (I believe they can even skip 7nm and go directly to 5nm) as first and reorganize CPU parts for better performance somehow. Something like AMD did with chiplets and cache in Zen2/3.

Honestly not being snarky now, but i am not sure what you are talking about regarding fan replacements? In terms of next gen Intel CPU, time will show. Could be cool if they reach 5nm. Unless it gets too expensive or just unavailable due to demand /supply difficulties

 

[Krotow]

Honestly not being snarky now, but i am not sure what you are talking about regarding fan replacements?

I had this in mind

Fans on graphic cards are smaller than case fans and spin faster. Means, they wear out sooner and can start making "weird" noise after few years (keep in mind that these fans aren't that easy to find and replace).

 

[Deer87]

I had this in mind

Ahh, okay. Im not really big on the whole take the GPU apart part but we will see what time brings.

 

[Krotow]

Ahh, okay. Im not really big on the whole take the GPU apart part but we will see what time brings.

It is ok. Had to replace stuck fan for friend's Asus HD 5770 GPU. Even before Covid a month passed until arrival. Till that replaced it with large case fan