News AMD 600-Series Chipset Expected to Land Before 2020 Ends

paul prochnow

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Did you not write the last 2/3rds of the story? WTF...why rename a chipset if all they do is put in a USB upgrade. NOBODY really is that USB oriented.

You talk about a honestly UNLOCKED 3xxx CPU multiplier chipset and ears will perk up.
 

TJ Hooker

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Did you not write the last 2/3rds of the story? WTF...why rename a chipset if all they do is put in a USB upgrade. NOBODY really is that USB oriented.

You talk about a honestly UNLOCKED 3xxx CPU multiplier chipset and ears will perk up.
Virtually every release of a new generation of CPUs is accompanied by new chipset(s). There are many examples where the new chipsets offered little to no improvements over the old ones, other than guaranteeing out of the box support for the new CPUs as mentioned above. I don't think they're expecting people with the previous chipset to upgrade motherboards just to get the new chipset.

All B and X series chipsets already allow CPU multipliers to be adjusted, what exactly are you looking for?
 

Makaveli

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What is the point if this is another AM4 socket.

When we should see new socket and DDR5 and possibly PCIe 5 in sometime in 2021?

Even if they offer USB4 on this and its chipset is passively cooled instead of active like x570.

You won't have a upgrade path!
 

Makaveli

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I would not expect to see these or Ryzen 4000 series until Q4.
Which is fine.

You still have no upgrade path. I don't really see what they will add to the chipset to make it a must buy.

Would you buy one of these boards knowing a replacement socket is like 1-1.5 years away?
 
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bit_user

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Did you not write the last 2/3rds of the story? WTF...why rename a chipset if all they do is put in a USB upgrade. NOBODY really is that USB oriented.
They could also be more power-efficient, perhaps being made on a 7 nm process.

The big news will be when AMD introduces a new socket. They said AM4 would span 4 generations. However, then they ported some older, pre-Ryzen APUs to the socket. So, technically, I think maybe the 4000 series & 600 chipset could introduce a new socket.
 

bit_user

Splendid
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possibly PCIe 5 in sometime in 2021?
No PCIe 5. That's going to be server-only, for the foreseeable future.

You won't have a upgrade path!
For a lot of people, upgrade path doesn't matter much. If you buy in with a slower chip, and upgrade to a faster one in the next gen, that makes sense. But, if you buy in with an upper-end chip, then the generational improvement isn't enough, from one generation to the next, for most people. And if you skip multiple generations of CPUs, then you're going to want faster RAM and possibly even encounter some CPU/chipset compatibility issues. Maybe you'll want beefier VRMs, too.

In any PC I've built, I've never done just a CPU upgrade. I always wait long enough between upgrades that I end up replacing CPU, motherboard, and RAM. Video cards are a different matter.

However, I can also afford to buy the system I think I need, at the outset. So, I see that an upgrade path will make sense, for some.
 
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TJ Hooker

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You still have no upgrade path. I don't really see what they will add to the chipset to make it a must buy.

Would you buy one of these boards knowing a replacement socket is like 1-1.5 years away?
Intel has been replacing sockets every two generations (so every ~2 years, even less recently) for a decade at least, doesn't seem to stop people from buying their boards.

With regard to making 600 series chipset boards a "must buy", if you want a Ryzen 4K CPU and 600 series chipsets guarantee out of the box support for Ryzen 4K that seems like reason enough for me. The 600 series chipset boards will (hopefully) be priced similarly to previous generation boards, so it may not be 'must buy' so much as 'might as well'.
 
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InvalidError

Titan
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Would you buy one of these boards knowing a replacement socket is like 1-1.5 years away?
Yes. I still run an i5-3470 and my expectation is that whatever I might upgrade to, the platform will be way beyond obsolete by the time I upgrade again so the "upgrade path" is completely irrelevant to me, I'm highly unlikely to ever upgrade CPUs within any platform's useful life no matter how long the platform's cycle might be.

As for why chipset refreshes, I wrote it before and others have already spelled it out again for you too, if you are in the market for a new board and CPU, new chipsets are a dead-simple way of identifying boards with out-of-the-box CPU support, very handy if you don't want to restrain yourself to old models with flashback support or having to bother with CPU-swapping with older-gen for BIOS update. As TJ put it, "may as well' use current-gen CPUs on current-gen motherboards if you are going to buy both and there is a minimal cost difference. Eliminating the guesswork and possible hassle is easily worth $5 in my book even if the chipset is nothing more than a re-brand with updated factory BIOS. The refreshed boards would also be simple way of getting the latest board revisions, which typically means better compatibility and stability, which translstes to better chances of everything working as intended without any fudging around.
 

mitch074

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Better USB support is something worth a new chipset, as this is almost all it has to do today - data bus management. And USB is a big one, if you consider how much stuff can be connected through high speed USB these days. Power optimization is good enough for a new revision too.
 

Xajel

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Maybe PCIe 4.0 is still expensive to make on the PCB and chipset level, otherwise I don't think just a USB upgrade is worth it for midrange chipset. I thought at least the CPU <=> Chipset link should be also PCIe 4.0 but all PCIe links provided by the chipset remains 3.0.

Maybe it's just the OEM and the market demand something new, and without PCIe 4.0 there's no new ideas.

I hope the 600 series will come with a mandatory multi-gigabit ethernet. Or at least the OEMs all agree on the high-end to be equipped with 5GbE or 10GbE while the midrange with 2.5GbE or 5GbE. Entry level with 1GbE or 2.5GbE.

And Both Intel and AMD should also replace the built-in Ethernet controller in the CPU/Chipset with a 10GbE one, and let the OEM pick the external PHY speed based on their needs.
 

InvalidError

Titan
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Maybe PCIe 4.0 is still expensive to make on the PCB and chipset level
Every Zen 2 CPU has 24 PCIe 4.0 lanes in it and many 300/400-series motherboard supported PCIe 4.0 at least on the GPU slot and some even on the CPU-fed NVMe slot too but AMD decided to disable those with a later AGESA update, so the costs of supporting 4.0 are mostly immaterial, all you need is a sufficiently careful passive connection between the CPU and x16/NVMe slots and a board made of sufficiently high quality material to maintain signal integrity.

AMD should have left CPU-hosted PCIe 4.0 support up to each individual board manufacturer to decide which board models are good enough to handle it.
 
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Makaveli

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No PCIe 5. That's going to be server-only, for the foreseeable future.


For a lot of people, upgrade path doesn't matter much. If you buy in with a slower chip, and upgrade to a faster one in the next gen, that makes sense. But, if you buy in with an upper-end chip, then the generational improvement isn't enough, from one generation to the next, for most people. And if you skip multiple generations of CPUs, then you're going to want faster RAM and possibly even encounter some CPU/chipset compatibility issues. Maybe you'll want beefier VRMs, too.

In any PC I've built, I've never done just a CPU upgrade. I always wait long enough between upgrades that I end up replacing CPU, motherboard, and RAM. Video cards are a different matter.

However, I can also afford to buy the system I think I need, at the outset. So, I see that an upgrade path will make sense, for some.
This is a good point.

But I still think its important to not buy into a platform towards the end, even if the goal is to drop a lower cheaper model in then move up when time and budget allows.

Intel has been replacing sockets every two generations (so every ~2 years, even less recently) for a decade at least, doesn't seem to stop people from buying their boards.

With regard to making 600 series chipset boards a "must buy", if you want a Ryzen 4K CPU and 600 series chipsets guarantee out of the box support for Ryzen 4K that seems like reason enough for me. The 600 series chipset boards will (hopefully) be priced similarly to previous generation boards, so it may not be 'must buy' so much as 'might as well'.
Valid point also.

However i'm speaking specify about AM4 and Ryzen. Intel has been doing that on their platforms since forever.

AMD generally will give you a few upgrades before changing sockets.

As for out of box support for new buyers very important.

As for why chipset refreshes, I wrote it before and others have already spelled it out again for you too, if you are in the market for a new board and CPU, new chipsets are a dead-simple way of identifying boards with out-of-the-box CPU support, very handy if you don't want to restrain yourself to old models with flashback support or having to bother with CPU-swapping with older-gen for BIOS update. As TJ put it, "may as well' use current-gen CPUs on current-gen motherboards if you are going to buy both and there is a minimal cost difference. Eliminating the guesswork and possible hassle is easily worth $5 in my book even if the chipset is nothing more than a re-brand with updated factory BIOS. The refreshed boards would also be simple way of getting the latest board revisions, which typically means better compatibility and stability, which translstes to better chances of everything working as intended without any fudging around.
Also valid but only for New builds.

My curiosity thought still remains what is this chipset going to bring besides out of box compatibility.
 
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Olle P

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For a lot of people, upgrade path doesn't matter much. If you buy in with a slower chip, and upgrade to a faster one in the next gen, that makes sense. ...
In any PC I've built, I've never done just a CPU upgrade. ...
But I still think its important to not buy into a platform towards the end, even if the goal is to drop a lower cheaper model in then move up when time and budget allows.
Well, I've done this once.

Had (initially) to upgrade just about everything in my computer because it was time to go from AGP to PCIe x16 for the graphics card.
This was when Athlon64 was "the shit", and available on three different sockets:
  • Socket 754 was the oldest.
  • Socket 939 had been the higher end.
  • Socket AM2 had just been released.
AMD said one of the older sockets was to be dropped, but support (with new CPUs) was to continue for at least 18 months.

Since I was a bit short on money and had to prematurely get a new graphics card and not "only" CPU, mobo and RAM my plan was to initially buy a single core CPU and replace it with a dual core at least one year later.
What socket should I pick?
  • With the trouble surrounding the Nforce2 chipset I was reluctant to become a guinea pig for some brand new platform (AM2).
  • Socket 754 was old, and seemed most likely to be the one to be dropped.
  • Socket 939 was well proven, so that became my choice.
Soon after my purchase AMD announced that it was Socket 939 they were giving out on, keeping 754 for the low end CPUs. :(
Some three to four months later I noticed that the Athlon64 models for Socket 939 were becoming rare in the stores. I now had to move quickly! Ordered a dual core from one vendor that some two weeks later had to tell me they couldn't deliver. In near panic I then ordered from another vendor and was able to snatch one of the last Athlon64x2 for Socket 939 available in the country!
That CPU then served me well until it was replaced by a Core i5-2500K. Had I not done that panic upgrade I would have had to get another (AM2) mobo and CPU much sooner.

I think my points are that...
a) ... it makes sense to do buy into a platform at the end, if the alternative isn't proven and you want reliability, and...
b) ... starting with a low end (here earlier generation) CPU and then upgrade about one year later can be perfectly valid from a cash management perspective.
 

Makaveli

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Some rumors I read months ago said B550 is getting a couple of PCIe 3.0 HSIO lanes, which would be an upgrade from only 2.0 on 3xx/4xx chipsets.
That is worth something right there.

And the primary reason I skipped 3xx/4xxx and went x570 for a new Christmas build.

Hope they won't keep the active cooling on any of those. Still have nightmares from Nforce2...
I own an Asus Prime X570 Pro Mothboard and I've never heard the chipset fan once. Components these days are of higher quality than those boards of the past. Not really comparable.
 

hannibal

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Yeah. I have msi prestige Creation and the chipset fun has never been running... Maybe if you would use 3 m2 ssd, a couple of pci ad on cards with several m2 ssd each and a couple of graphic cards... the fan would run.
but most normal users have one or two m2 ssd and one gpu... no problem in there!
600 chipset being maybe minor update is guite normal. X570 did bring so Many upgrades that there is not much left to 600 series!
Most likely we do get am5 and ddr5 in 2021... ddr5 will be very expensive in the first couple of years, so buying the last aka 600 series motherboard is very good deal! Even if you can not upgrade the next gen cpu. You get the latest and best of that generation.
I personally avoid first gen motherboard of new socet, because second gen or third gen Are normally more robust, offer better memory support etc. But everyone has their own opinion. Nothing wrong in that.
 

TJ Hooker

Glorious
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However i'm speaking specify about AM4 and Ryzen. Intel has been doing that on their platforms since forever.

AMD generally will give you a few upgrades before changing sockets.
They already did though. AM4 came out in 2016, and will have at least 3 generations of chips on it (4 if you count the crappy Bristal Ridge APUs that initially came out for it), and possibly another generation in the form of Ryzen 4000. Seems like a decent length of support, in line with what they originally said (support for the socket until ~2020).

Also valid but only for New builds.

My curiosity thought still remains what is this chipset going to bring besides out of box compatibility.
I think new builds are the sensible place to focus though. As I said above, I don't know if they're expecting many people who already have an AM4 board to go get a new board just for the sake of getting a new chipset, except maybe if they also want to step up a tier (e.g. B series to X series). I've certainly never recommended anyone with a B350 upgrade to a B450, except maybe if they have a crappy B350 and they want to upgrade to an 8+ core CPU.

Don't get me wrong, it'd be great if 500 or 600 series boards offered noticeable improvements. They still could, as I don't think we really know much about them yet (especially 600 series). I just don't think they necessarily need to in order to justify their existence.
 
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bit_user

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if you are in the market for a new board and CPU, new chipsets are a dead-simple way of identifying boards with out-of-the-box CPU support, very handy if you don't want to restrain yourself to old models with flashback support or having to bother with CPU-swapping with older-gen for BIOS update.
I had this happen with a Haswell board. I got a "Haswell Refresh" CPU and the motherboard supported it only after a BIOS update. So, I had to borrow an "original" Haswell CPU for the BIOS update, and only then could I install my CPU.

Also, this brings up another issue, which is that Intel basically cancelled their desktop Broadwell CPUs. So, even though Haswell was the first CPU generation on that socket, the platform effectively lasted for just a single generation (unless you count the "Haswell Refresh" as a new generation, which I do not). Those buying into the platform with the expectation of upgrading to Broadwell therefore got burned.
 
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artk2219

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Well, I've done this once.

Had (initially) to upgrade just about everything in my computer because it was time to go from AGP to PCIe x16 for the graphics card.
This was when Athlon64 was "the shit", and available on three different sockets:
  • Socket 754 was the oldest.
  • Socket 939 had been the higher end.
  • Socket AM2 had just been released.
AMD said one of the older sockets was to be dropped, but support (with new CPUs) was to continue for at least 18 months.

Since I was a bit short on money and had to prematurely get a new graphics card and not "only" CPU, mobo and RAM my plan was to initially buy a single core CPU and replace it with a dual core at least one year later.
What socket should I pick?
  • With the trouble surrounding the Nforce2 chipset I was reluctant to become a guinea pig for some brand new platform (AM2).
  • Socket 754 was old, and seemed most likely to be the one to be dropped.
  • Socket 939 was well proven, so that became my choice.
Soon after my purchase AMD announced that it was Socket 939 they were giving out on, keeping 754 for the low end CPUs. :(
Some three to four months later I noticed that the Athlon64 models for Socket 939 were becoming rare in the stores. I now had to move quickly! Ordered a dual core from one vendor that some two weeks later had to tell me they couldn't deliver. In near panic I then ordered from another vendor and was able to snatch one of the last Athlon64x2 for Socket 939 available in the country!
That CPU then served me well until it was replaced by a Core i5-2500K. Had I not done that panic upgrade I would have had to get another (AM2) mobo and CPU much sooner.

I think my points are that...
a) ... it makes sense to do buy into a platform at the end, if the alternative isn't proven and you want reliability, and...
b) ... starting with a low end (here earlier generation) CPU and then upgrade about one year later can be perfectly valid from a cash management perspective.
The irony is that if you had gotten a decent AM2 board you could have gone from a single core athlon 64 to a six core phenom II all along the same socket. AMD went a bit crazy during this time with cpu support, also lets you know how similar the architecures on all these chips were. Heck, there is even an asrock board thatll run everything am2 to am3+ going from literally an Athlon 64 3200+ or phenom x4 both with ddr2, to a phenom ii x6 with either ddr2 or 3, or an fx 8320 with ddr3 all on the same board (the cpu support list cuts out on the fx 4300, but it will in fact support up to an 8370e). Heck the board even supports core unlocking, that old Nvidia 630a chipset was used to the max on that board.

https://www.asrock.com/mb/NVIDIA/N68C-GS FX/#CPU
 
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Olle P

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... AM4 came out in 2016, and will have at least 3 generations of chips on it...
It was released in 2017 and will support at least four generations of Ryzen CPUs.
The irony is that if you had gotten a decent AM2 board you could have gone from a single core athlon 64 to a six core phenom II...
I'm well aware of that. AM2 didn't have the teething problems I feared. But I'm also fairly sure that back then I wouldn't buy a mobo you'd classify as "decent" but opt for low price.
 

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