AMD APU13: Mantle Shooting for 100K Draws per Frame

[exfileme]

AMD had several sessions discussing Mantle.

AMD APU13: Mantle Shooting for 100K Draws per Frame : Read more

 

[xiinc37]

I want to know how this applies to Nvidia, because its optimized for GCN? With both of them on board, I think this will be awesome.

 

[Geef]

I hope this is adopted quickly. Even if it isn't this might be the kick in the pants Microsoft needs with DirectX to make it more useful.

 

[doron]

[quotemsg=11938504,0,845427]I want to know how this applies to Nvidia, because its optimized for GCN? With both of them on board, I think this will be awesome.[/quotemsg]

Last paragraph: "Ultimately one thing was made clear during the presentations: Mantle is not simply just for AMD APUs and GPUs. The technology is reportedly open, so whether Nvidia accepts the tech or not is a different story altogether, but it's there for the GeForce company to embrace."

You can't know if you don't read.

 

[vmem]

I think AMD is going to leverage the console advantage they gained, and push heavily on PC gaming optimizations to try to capture some market back from Intel.

Meanwhile, Nvidia is seeking a new source of revenue. since they have over 60% of discrete GPU market and more for GPU compute, they won't get too much more profit out of either market regardless of what they do. To do this, Nvidia is apparently pushing mobile lines, and obviously looking forward to Cloud streamed gaming in the future. I think in the short run AMD will win out with Mantle and all the other stuff they're doing. hopefully that gives them enough profits to stay competitive in the long run

 

[Amdlova]

Go AMD bring the glide again I still love when show 3DFX on scren or GLIDE when you start the game... Old days never come back. but I see the Hope

 

[tomfreak]

@xiinc37 click @ 2.00 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tDPgJB2x7dQ

He says pretty clear, mantle is low level enough, but not tooo low to be GCN specific, AMD wanted to still have the ability to change architecture in the future, with that in mind not lowest level API also give their competitor be able to support. Basically he is saying "join now Nvidia, or u gonna get left out in dust" :-D

 

[xiinc37]

[quotemsg=11938661,0,217800]Last paragraph: "Ultimately one thing was made clear during the presentations: Mantle is not simply just for AMD APUs and GPUs. The technology is reportedly open, so whether Nvidia accepts the tech or not is a different story altogether, but it's there for the GeForce company to embrace."

You can't know if you don't read.[/quotemsg]
Well duh, that quote is exactly what I was referring to. It says Nvidia can make use of it, but it doesn't say how.

[quotemsg=11938883,0,502873]@xiinc37 click @ 2.00 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tDPgJB2x7dQ

He says pretty clear, mantle is low level enough, but not tooo low to be GCN specific, AMD wanted to still have the ability to change architecture in the future, with that in mind not lowest level API also give their competitor be able to support. Basically he is saying "join now Nvidia, or u gonna get left out in dust" :-D[/quotemsg]

Thanks, I'll check that out.

 

[beta212]

Best I've seen people do with Cryengine is 4k draw calls. This is a 25x improvement, question is, will cryengine implement it? Will game devs have to do any specific coding to support it?

 

[dudewitbow]

[quotemsg=11939079,0,1084405]Best I've seen people do with Cryengine is 4k draw calls. This is a 25x improvement, question is, will cryengine implement it? Will game devs have to do any specific coding to support it?[/quotemsg]

developers tie in the calls directly into the games engine. EA was pretty much the one who wanted a low level API. Once Frosbites Engine is finished for BF4, it is able to be applied on all other frostite 3 titles(EA reported 15+). IIRC, EA is implementing mantle into Cryengine 4, so its not going to be any time soon where it will be used in games that use CE3 yet.


if anyone is wondering why Nvidia wasn't originally on the ball with this:

Andersson took the concepts for a new low-level API and approached AMD, Intel, and Nvidia with the software, with the goal to have a company evangelise it and eventually turn it into a software standard. Only AMD was eager to adopt it and eventually called it Mantle to tie into their reveal for the Volcanic Islands family of GPUs.

Source

So its implied it wasn't something AMD had originally sought out to do, it was definitely something they jumped on when the idea rose that the other 2 didn't go after at the time.

 

[DarkMantle]

[quotemsg=11939146,0,723754]

So its implied it wasn't something AMD had originally sought out to do, it was definitely something they jumped on when the idea rose that the other 2 didn't go after at the time.

[/quotemsg]

You can read about it on Tom's AMD AMA article
http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/amd-ama-toms-hardware,3672-4.html

"Q. What was the influence to do something like Mantle when we have seen other projects like "GLIDE" fail? What do you think will make your solution better or more enduring?

A. Game developers requested Mantle themselves. That's the key difference. The industry told us they want it.

Q. A followup: you mentioned that developers requested Mantle. How so? And what is your favorite color?

A. Johan from DICE sat across the table from Matt Skynner, the GM of our graphics business, and explained how he wanted a close-to-metal graphics API. Matt said "we can do that," and the rest was history. Other devs are very excited when they learn about what Mantle is capable of, and how Mantle can help them bring their game to life on the PC."

 

[thor220]

thanks for the full article dudewitdow, that was a real eye opener. I can't believe that intel and nvidia turned this tech down. Not only will this increase performance but it allows for new effects and breaks everyone's dependency on directX.

 

[Zhyr]

I was assuming that Mantle was going to be AMD specific so wasn't very thrilled about it. Knowing that it's an open source kinda thing makes me want to bug nVidia about it.

 

[ddpruitt]

I don't know the details since I wasn't at the developer summit. But it looks like AMD is applying CPU tech to GPUs. Starting from the top down I see a process scheduler, virtual memory (maybe), a TLB, deep pipeline (ok so that isn't new), and perhaps memory mapped hardware. It looks like AMD's is figuring out that some of the old CPU performance enhancements might work just as well on current GPUs.

 

[slomo4sho]

AMD has a history of overselling and under-delivering. I'll wait to see it in action before I draw any conclusions.

 

[gallidorn]

Hopefully AMD will make Mantle available for Linux, since Steam OS will be coming out soon.

 

[spp85]

I feels AMD Mantle API open the door to Linux gaming. The only weak point of Linux over Windows is the lack of M$ DirectX support.

 

[cats_Paw]

Well, in theory developers want a unified OS and system to code on, but this gives you the option to go the other route. Thats nice.

 

[ohim]

@slomo4sho AMD also has a history of inovation like it or not, remember when both Intel and AMD competed for a 64 bit architecture, atm you`re running AMD`s 64 bit architecture even if you have an Intel CPU, the first on die memory controller also AMD, the first dual core CPU`s if i`m not mistaking was also AMD, too bad the company is too little to further develop and optimize things like the Intel giant because every ignorant user out there opt for Intel even though at a given price point or applications used AMD would be just as good.

Getting back on topic, i`m amazed that AMD didn`t get greedy and keep Mantle a proprietary thing like Nvidia tends to do with things. Guess they are going for open for Mantle to succeed.

 

[Bloob]

I feels AMD Mantle API open the door to Linux gaming. The only weak point of Linux over Windows is the lack of M$ DirectX support.

This might help, but DirectX is more than just Direct3D, Valve is trying to bridge that gap however.

 

[nekromobo]

How hard is it to read that you can do only 4k draw's per frame mr. PCGAMINGMASTERRACE?

I think 360 does.. 50k?

 

[Memnarchon]

Johan Andersson from DICE said that AMD Mantle could get you 20% more performance: source: Guru3D

He added that it's "not unrealistic that you'd get 20% additional GPU performance" with Mantle.

 

[Memnarchon]

[quotemsg=11941158,0,178265]How hard is it to read that you can do only 4k draw's per frame mr. PCGAMINGMASTERRACE?

I think 360 does.. 50k?[/quotemsg]

That's the reason consoles stay competitive for a few years even with inferior hardware. Cause of the more draws per frame.
Or at least for a year.
Then Crysis happened. And even the stones outside my house saw that the new (back at 2007) generation consoles were already outdated...

edit: consoles actually have 10-20k draws per frame: source

On consoles, you can draw maybe 10,000 or 20,000 chunks of geometry in a frame, and you can do that at 30-60fps.

 

[The_Trutherizer]

For those wondering about NVidia supporting this. Well AMD made it open - They are not ones to kick the industry its face just for a few more sales. NVidia will support this eventually. Until then I'll be rocking it with my R9 though

 

[rokit]

Watching their conference, some DICE stuff etc i can see some enormous hype. I would really like to see real benchmarks, sadly its a painfully long wait, december....