AMD athlon II x3 unlocked to Phenom II x4 propus

[shioriharu]

So i recently unlocked my Athlon II to a 4 core Phenom, but it had major graphical issues and was unstable as hell.

I did some research and updated my Nvidia drivers, upped volt offset on NB and some other bridge i dont remember atm, each by 0,0625 volts and set Overclock on auto with 200 mhz HT

This made the weird graphical issues go away instantly, but im a complete tech-retard and not sure i did the right thing.

With the volt increase and 3 cores my CPU temp can go from min 25C to 54C depending on if its idle or working hard.

And with 4 cores it is about 50-51C on idle and goes up to 61C Average when working...can go up to 67C as well..

IM talking about CPU temp, not individual core temps


Prime 95 i had running for liek 15 minutes:

Before making my 4th core stable, prime 95 reported a faulty 4th core in the first 4 minutes (meaning it didnt even pass the first test)
After making my 4th core seemingly stable, prime 95 all tests passed BUT my CPU temp was over 77-81C while running prime.

MY cpu remains 3.0 GHZ even with the "overclocking" tho im not sure i did any overclocking, i just set it to manual and left it with the presets, which said CPU ratio = auto and gave me a 200MHZ HT, i dont have a clue whats that tho.

After 3 hours of running Dragon Age inquisition on medium-high settings with 60 FPS, my PC house's top was so hot i could roast eggs on it, i immediately shutted it down and BIOS HW temp said my shutdown temperature of the CPU was 67C
My core voltage jumps around from 1,045 to 1,118 and my Power Package is jumping from 36W to 108 W

GPU CPU fan running at 614000-ish RPM my CPU fan running at 3200 RPM
I think my CPU has a stock cooler

Im never really running with 4 cores for more than 3-4 hours, but im unsure if its safe at all, please help ?

 

[Swordkd]

If you are running prime95 stably, then I'd definitely run that 4th core unlocked. You will want to get an after market cpu cooler though to handle the extra voltage and heat. Cooler Master Hyper 212 Evo would cool that cpu just fine for about 30 dollars. If you are worried about overall case temperature, I'd look to see if there are any fan slots that aren't being used, and add an extra case fan.

 

[shioriharu]

Thank you for your answer, and say, what if i dont invest in a new cooler ?
Im just asking cause im not sure i can invest in anything until new year, My spare cash already gone to DA:I game
do you think its safe to run at least 3-4 hours on 4 core even if CPU temp goes up to 67C ?
Im more concerned about potential HDD damage than CPU but ofc if its not safe even the slightest im not going to try my luck with it

 

[Onus]

Do you have a top-mounted PSU, and is that what is making your case hot? What brand and model (not just wattage) is it? Also, what motherboard do you have?

 

[shioriharu]

i have an ASUS mobo M4A88TD-V evo/usb3 pretty low end i think AM3 socket

My PSU is a chieftech CTG 450 80P obviously a 450W one :S it is top mounted but i feel the warmth more above my HDD's i mean in the front of my computer but yeah the PSU is also generating a lot of heat MY HDD temps are an average of 30-41C never hotter

 

[boosted1g]

Ding ding ding I think we found the issue.

Top mount psus are always going to be hotter because they are using your hot pc air as "intake" and thus as they get hotter so does everything else in your case.
Then there is the fact that you have a tier 5 (lowest tier) power supply that we would not trust in grandma's computer that checks email and Facebook, let alone anything that games and has a dedicated graphics card. The last part you should go cheap on is the part that can destroy everything else.

 

[Onus]

Your PSU is not high quality. It's Sirtec, so a step or two above "junk," but if it is getting hot, you may expecting more from it than it can give. Such scenarios rarely end well. What is your graphics card?
Make sure you have good airflow through your case. Usually, a front fan is an intake, and rear fans (including the PSU) are exhaust. Too many exhaust fans and not enough intake may prevent the PSU from cooling itself. What fans does your case have?
Your CPU's stock cooler was designed to be sufficient to cool it when running at stock speeds. Now that you have unlocked cores and overclocked it, that fan is likely insufficient.
I would add a 120mm direct-touch tower-style CPU cooler other than the frequently parroted CM Hyper212 EVO. That one is not a bad cooler, but is a horrible bang/buck Loser. In my experience, one or more competitors including Rosewill, Enermax, Gammax, NZXT, Masscool, Zalman, and Xigmatek will have a product offering similar performance (within 1C-3C, either way, depending on the fan) for as much as 40% less (20% less is more typical). Again, this makes the awwwwwk! Hyper EVO awwwwwk! (you should hear it as if spoken by a parrot) a bang/buck Loser, and I try to avoid recommending Losers.
On a tight budget, you can make do with a 92mm fan, but expect it to be louder.
Until you can improve your cooling, it would be best to keep that extra core locked, and voltages at stock. Otherwise, you risk killing something.

 

[shioriharu]

4 or 5 years ago when i bought it, it was like almost the most expensive one from the shop :/

It says CHIEFTEC PSU and not SirTec ... there isnt any Sirtec written on it just CHIEFTEC in all capitals.

My gfx is an Nvidia 650 GTX
I see no frontal fan

i have zero idea about my fan tho but i think its a stock one, ill check once i turn my PC off

With the upped offset my core voltage is actually 0.3 less volts than stock version ()


BTW on 3 cores even my PSU is not hot, but atm im shaking in fear, maybe my PC isnt even safe on 3 cores?

 

[Onus]

It will have deteriorated due to age, especially if it is run hot (happens to all PSUs, even good ones). What graphics card do you have?

PS. Judging from http://realhardtechx.com/index_archivos/Page873.htm , Chieftec has a lot of PSUs, some better than others. The poor ones are most likely the CWT-built offerings, although Sirtec has been known to cut corners also (e.g. OCZ units with capacitor problems).

PPS. Your Chieftec PSU was built by Sirtec. This is not unusual; very few companies actually make their own PSUs. Sirtec makes PSUs for several companies. Some are better than others. I don't think yours is too bad, but I will point out that heat can degrade capacitors fairly quickly, and Sirtec has been known to use some cheap ones.

Ah, your GTX650 doesn't need a lot of power. Even degraded to 300W-350W, your PSU should be able to handle your system just fine.

 

[slyu9213]

First of all unlocking a 3-Core Athlon II would make it a 4-Core Athlon II not a Phenom II X4, unless AMD used a unstable Phenom II as an Athlon II.

It's normal that unlocking a core would create an issue with performance while gaming. It's also normal for the unlocked core or CPU in general to be unstable at normal voltage. You upped the voltage and other things and it's running stable so I would keep that 4th core unlocked. You had to up the voltage, and the fact that the 4th core was probably disabled because it didn't run to the spec/stable as the others, so it's normal that the CPU would run hotter than normal.

If you're using a stock cooler than I would think of upgrading to something a little better. CM Hyper 212 Evo is a good heatsink in the $30-40 and a slightly worse but better than stock CM Hyper TX3 is on sale for as low as $13 at Newegg for Pre-Black Friday sales. Like others said you want a stable/good power supply. I don't know of Sirtech but it probably isn't made in the same standards as Corsair, Rosewill, NZXT, Seasonic, Cooler Master, Silverstone, etc. Unless you went to a Big Electronic store, the smaller stores don't really carry big name power supplies. That's probably why you paid a lot for a not well known power supply.

Something you can do is try to make the best airflow for your case with what you have. Make sure you have good cable management where the cables won't mess with airflow. It would be nice if you had a decent amount of intake airflow for cool air and decent amount of outtake/exhaust fans for removing the warm/hot air from the case.

I honestly don't think you need to worry about your HDD breaking due to the heat by your CPU.

 

[shioriharu]

Okay thanks for the answers, it is a Phenom II x4 B40 propus tho when unlocked , ill keep an eye on more opinions/answers as i really dont want my PC to die on me until i can do a thorough upgrade...it does have another fan slot tho so i might try and get one but until then, is 67C for a CPU temp fatal? or 60ish average when loaded... i mean ok its not exactly healthy but does it seriously degrade components?

 

[Onus]

Corsair "CX" and "GS" PSUs are no better than what he has. Almost any Coolermaster (except "V" which is Seasonic) will be worse than what he has. Rosewill Capstone is great, as is anything built by Seasonic. Sirtec makes some of the NZXT, Silverstone, and lesser Rosewill PSUs. Other Silverstone are made by Enhance and FSP, and other NZXT are made by Super Flower, Seasonic, and FSP.

The (awwwwwk!) Hyper EVO! (awwwwwk!) is not a bad cooler, but I indicated earlier why it is generally a poor choice. Check prices. The thermal differences are not large enough to be significant; if they are, you'd be looking for a cooler costing 3x as much (or more) anyway. No cooler can do a great job unless the case has some flow through it.

 

[Onus]

A CPU temp of 60C is a little warm, but not unsafe, and will not harm it. Low-quality capacitors are what are most likely to be harmed by extended heating.

 

[slyu9213]

Like Onus said 60C is not a deadly temperature, unless you're upgrade will happen in 1+ years I don't see a huge problem happening but I can't be for sure.

 

[Swordkd]

Just curious Onus, what makes the Hyper 212 Evo a poor choice for price vs. performance? There are other options, Xigmatek Gaia is a good one, but around the same price. If you have other specific suggestions that cost less, list them because I'd like to look at the benchmarks comparing them. I personally haven't seen a better cooler for the price. It's certainly not the best performing cooler out there, but it's no where near the top performers price.

Also, why would a top mounted PSU be making his case hot? Last I heard, warm air rises, which would mean that the intake/exhaust for the PSU would be drawing warmer air out of the case than if it was mounted on the bottom(assuming the intake is facing the inside of the case). That means that the PSU wouldn't be cooling itself as well as it could be, but it would be actually adding another exhaust to the case that is in essence, drawing the warmest air out of the case. Generally a top mounted PSU isn't desirable because of the clutter that extra cables can leave, and because you'll get better cooling for the PSU if it's mounted on the bottom.

 

[Onus]

On various review sites (e.g. Frostytech, HardwareSecrets, Techreaction), the Hyper212 EVO seems to be 1C-3C better than many competitors, but it can depend on the fans. Sometimes it is 1C-3C worse. In these reviews, using multiple fans:
http://www.techreaction.net/2011/07/07/review-xigmatek-gaia-sd1283/7/
http://www.techreaction.net/2011/11/27/review-cooler-master-hyper-212-plus/4/
(that is the EVO they reviewed, not the plus) the Gaia was better. Incidentally, that's the cooler I use. I paid $20 apiece for them; at the time the HyperEVO was $32 or $35. The Gaia has two other advantages as well (with stock fans); it is quieter, and its shape is less likely to interfere with RAM slots (it does not block mine).
Competitors include Masscool, Enermax, Rosewill, Xigmatek, Gammax, Zalman, and NZXT. Prices vary, of course. When I checked a couple weeks ago, Masscool's product was $22. Xigmatek had a 140mm cooler for $30 (but that one may have had problematic mounting hardware; there were some negative review comments that seemed too consistent to ignore, but I've not bought one myself). Right now, the Hyper EVO may actually be $30 some places, making it a better deal than at the more usual $35. Still, even a 3C difference is not significant to most people, and for those to whom it is, they should probably be looking for coolers costing 2x-3x as much anyway, such as Noctua or Phanteks.

As to the top-mounted PSU, if the PSU itself is what is overheating, that heat might be felt on nearby surfaces (e.g. the top of the case). It is true that the PSU can (and should) contribute to case cooling, and also explains why the 23C ambient temperature used by 80+ is woefully unrealistic. Although I believe an 80+ rating is absolutely better than nothing when it comes to judging an unknown PSU, it does need to be taken with a grain of salt; consider for example the CM GX650, summarized by HardOCP as a "polished turd in a box," despite being 80+ bronze. Under realistic conditions, it was an utter failure.

 

[shioriharu]

Okay idle temp is now around 42C with 4 cores
loaded temp is on an average of 57C max 64C
Im still experiencing the graphical issues in some online videos and with firefox mozilla ONLY, it also says a plugin has caused error and firefox needs to close.

Google chrome doesnt even start problematic online videos

I can watch locally stored movies and videos tho without problems and can also play games which can use 4 cores, but when wanting to play older games im experiencing graphical flickers, random CTDs and stuff.

I am also concerned about VRM and its protection, how can i make sure im not burning it?

PS.: and Prime95 says test passed on each workers but the CPU main temp is still going over 80C during stress test!
Anything you can say about that? (despite buying new ventilation cause i will do that but probably not in the next 1-2 months)
Should removing the house case front- and left help ?

 

[bmacsys]

Okay idle temp is now around 42C with 4 cores
loaded temp is on an average of 57C max 64C
Im still experiencing the graphical issues in some online videos and with firefox mozilla ONLY, it also says a plugin has caused error and firefox needs to close.

Google chrome doesnt even start problematic online videos

I can watch locally stored movies and videos tho without problems and can also play games which can use 4 cores, but when wanting to play older games im experiencing graphical flickers, random CTDs and stuff.

I am also concerned about VRM and its protection, how can i make sure im not burning it?

PS.: and Prime95 says test passed on each workers but the CPU main temp is still going over 80C during stress test!
Anything you can say about that? (despite buying new ventilation cause i will do that but probably not in the next 1-2 months)
Should removing the house case front- and left help ?

When you run Prime95 are you running the Torture Test?

 

[shioriharu]

Im doing the small FFT (Maximum heat FPU stress etc..)

 

[Onus]

85C is not safe for a CPU. Graphics cards can typically handle that, but not CPUs. I would ease off on the stress-testing until you get the cooling under control.
Only take the side of your case off if you are aiming a fan into it. Otherwise, that completely disrupts any flow through it, which is what cools motherboard components.

 

[shioriharu]

Just a little update, i set it back at 3 cores and canceled the OC today to play some older games, however on boot there was a big red message : OVERClOCKING FAIlED then it was followed by some BSODs in windows, i sensed danger so started making backups real quick, fortunately enough (or thank god) i was able to backup most of my stuff, cause after the last BSOD my windows failed to boot.

It pretty much forgot that theres a windows installed on it so i had to format/reinstall

Ofc i tried fixing this by setting bios defaults but that aint helped. Plus my DVD ram got cooked after 3rd BSOD

Just when i finally got myself a cooler....

 

[shioriharu]

So after my unlocked core kinda failed me and im on a fresh install of windows 7 im still experiencing computer slowdown, mouse lagging a bit and stuff. I loaded bios defaults but its not quite the same as the very first stock setup

For example my stock vcore was at 1.35 idle, now its 1,032V
Max tdp was 96 now its 95.6

My core speed multplier is x4

My mobo voltages
+12 v - 12.330
+5V - 4.935
CPu vcore jumping around betwee, 1.02 - 1,2
VIN3 - 1,680
VIN4 - 2.52
+3.3v 3.357
VIN6 2.16
VIN7 - 0.468
VIn8 - 1.692

Should these be okay for 3 cores mode? Cause my idle CPU temp is 34 now and it used to be 25 before i even tried unlocking 4th core

PS: i also did a thorough cleaning of dust and dust bunnies, freed up space between cables and HDDs so i think the temp should be lower on idle, not higher

 

[mdocod]

When you reverted to factory BIOS settings, cool and quiet was re-enabled, which allows the CPU to run in reduced power states, the lowest of which is 800mhz at about 1V. When a load is created, it should automatically target a power state appropriate to match the workload. 3.0ghz @ ~1.4V should kick in any time there is a workload that is not throttled by something else (timeline, etc).

 

[englishcool988]

i did a simular thing i took a athlon 2 x3 4550 and got it to a propus phenom 2 x4 b50 but i also found that my stock speeds are higher than usually and i got it overclocked after to 3.6 ghrz no problem so i think i lucked out on that but as per most phenom 2s the thermal sensor goes nuts after 50c and shoots to 250c and downlocks my cpu to 1000 mrhz so thats the only drawback lol but that only happens when im giving it unrealistic loads /prime95 the thing is tho is that it doesnt crash and such so as far as i can tell this is a bad sensor. ;(

 

[Onus]

Closing necrotic thread.