AMD & ATI making a come back?

[evilshuriken]

Wow this really degenerated into a bunch of fanboy flack.

Still... I wonder if there is any hope left for AMD. I supported them in the Athlon64 days when they where king(even though I owned an intel cpu, same space heater I'm still running).
But all this AMD fanboy nonsense it just stupid. Why can't you guys grow up? You're corrupting the minds of noobies that come to these forums, some of them actually believe this crap.

 

[aznguy0028]

Wow this really degenerated into a bunch of fanboy flack.

Still... I wonder if there is any hope left for AMD. I supported them in the Athlon64 days when they where king(even though I owned an intel cpu, same space heater I'm still running).
But all this AMD fanboy nonsense it just stupid. Why can't you guys grow up? You're corrupting the minds of noobies that come to these forums, some of them actually believe this crap.

what?! you meant AMD isn't winning all this time?! :O -gasp-

i kid i kid. just had to throw in a comment on this thread.

 

[the last resort]

who are you trying to kid? the AMD fanboys here are not the people starting the flames. its the Intel people who are unwilling to step off their perch and realize that AMD is a greater company than they think. If they would step their foot out the door into the real world, they'd get a new light. Ya know why Intel's old saying was "Intel Inside"? Cause they couldn't think "outside" their box. I would say that I'm partial to AMD. Does that make Intel GOD? No. They make a better processor atm. In the eyes of Intel fanboys is Intel God? Oh yeah, because they are on the same perch that Intel is. The higher the perch, the harder the fall. So the Intel fanboys should shut up, not the AMD people.

 

[TechnologyCoordinator]

who are you trying to kid? the AMD fanboys here are not the people starting the flames. its the Intel people who are unwilling to step off their perch and realize that AMD is a greater company than they think. If they would step their foot out the door into the real world, they'd get a new light. Ya know why Intel's old saying was "Intel Inside"? Cause they couldn't think "outside" their box. I would say that I'm partial to AMD. Does that make Intel GOD? No. They make a better processor atm. In the eyes of Intel fanboys is Intel God? Oh yeah, because they are on the same perch that Intel is. The higher the perch, the harder the fall. So the Intel fanboys should shut up, not the AMD people.

I agree.

Don't you freaking Intelers get it? AMD TRIES DAMN HARD! Doesn't that count for anything? Look at all the fancy buzzword stuff they've made, HT, OMC, MONOLITHIC, TLB.

Does Intel have any of this stuff? No they don't. Intel is too concentrated on producing real-world results and are not is not concentrated at all on over-elaborate desktop architecture.

Let's ignore all these stupid Intelers and turn this flame thread into an AMD appreciation thread.

 

[the last resort]

I'm sorry, I took that response as extremely sarcastic.

 

[TechnologyCoordinator]

I'm sorry, I took that response as extremely sarcastic.

I'm feeling sassy tonight.


I was an AMD fan\supporter. Back in the day when it was neck and neck I bought AMD just to support the underdog; I figured if all was equal why not support competition.

However, since AMD started to FAIL EXECUTION miserably, I became upset and angry with the company, especially when they lied to investors and fans.

We reacted differently to this. You still support AMD like it is your child failing at sports, while I am angry with them for screwing up when they were positioned to make some real gains on Intel.


The best way to support competition is to buy the most competitive product, and in many (but not all) scenario's, that is currently Intel's product.

Buying a $230 AMD quad is the equivalent of watching the sequel to Dumb and Dumber because you liked the first; just doesn't make sense.


BTW: If you inject any emotion for AMD in your posts here you'll be quickly jumped on. We like benchmarks.

 

[the last resort]

And Intel people like fresh blood

 

[TechnologyCoordinator]

And Intel people like fresh blood

I don't consider myself an Intel person, rather a price\performance person.

I'm a straight-up free market person, may the best company win (not to say that that I think companies should be allowed to commit anti-trust acts, which it looks like Intel may have done).

I don't believe in welfare and I don't believe in corporate charity. People shouldn't buy AMD processors because "they're a good company". People should buy AMD if it makes sense. In some cases it does, and in some cases it doesn't.

 

[the last resort]

finally, someone who makes sense. I knew there was someone out there.

 

[cjl]

And here are the System Requirements.
(A 1Ghz Processor and 256Mb of RAM)
I seriously Doubt an 8Core Nehalm will have any issues running this.
If they do, I don't see how a single copy has ever sold.

http://www.microsoft.com/games/pc/flightsimulatorx.aspx#sysreqs

===================================
Microsoft® Windows® XP SP2 / Vista
PC with 1 GHz equivalent or higher processor
256 MB of system RAM for Windows XP SP2 / 512 MB Vista
14 GB available hard disk space
DVD-ROM drive
32 MB DirectX 9 compatible video card required
Sound card, speakers or headphones required for audio
Microsoft Mouse or compatible pointing device
56.6 Kbps or better modem for online play

It sells because it is awesome, and it runs smoothly on low to medium settings on almost any modern machine. It will even run on intel integrated graphics on low settings, since it cares more about CPU than graphics. Crank it up though, and you need a god machine to run it smoothly.

 

[hayder_master]

maybe the new amd cpu not better than new intel cpu , but the new ati 4xxx is very interesting and more powerful than nvidia card , amd cpu with ati card make a good system now , i hope new amd chipset and new amd cpu release

 

[Amiga500]

Phenom 65nm is AMD's 2900...

Phenom 45nm will be AMD's 3870...

Nextgen 45nm will be AMD's 4870...



It just takes time to filter through.

 

[yipsl]

Dual socket consumer sucks balls and will never be adopted except by uber-enthusiasts.

I don't care of you call it Skullf*ck (Intel) or QuadFX Abandoneware (AMD), it sucks.

This is one of the few areas where I totally agree with you. Dual CPU on the desktop is not viable. Dual GPU's are barely viable, and only reasonable with enthusiast cards.

I want Deneb to succeed at the price point I buy at. When I get back from my vacation, I'll upgrade to the Gigabyte 780G board and one of those 8750's you amusingly call "triple cripples". That will hold me over till Deneb.

Don't care that Nehalem will be faster, as long as the CPU I want is fast enough. Buying a $450 GPU makes a lot more sense than buying a $1000 CPU. IMHO, Intel and Nvidia started milking "enthusiasts" and there's no need for AMD/ATI to follow suit.

By the way TC, are you still using an Opteron, or have you gone over to the Evil Empire? :lol:

Phenom 65nm is AMD's 2900...

Phenom 45nm will be AMD's 3870...

Nextgen 45nm will be AMD's 4870...



It just takes time to filter through.

This is what I believe will happen. B2 Phenom was basically AMD's Prescott, B3 was Pressler. Deneb will be a needed die shrink but might have some advantages that boost performance over B3 (as 65nm boosted per core performance up to 17% over Athlon X2).

Intel screwed up but stayed on top because of the OEM rebate program mishegoss. AMD screwed up and is staying alive because of OEM markets finally being opened up to them; and because ATI GPU's are top notch.

AMD will come back, but they'll still be number 2 in the market. I don't see that changing any time soon, whether or not AMD has a better CPU than Intel in any particular generation.

 

[TechnologyCoordinator]

By the way TC, are you still using an Opteron, or have you gone over to the Evil Empire? :lol:

Yessir! My good 'ole Opty 175 is chugging away. I recently upgraded to a GeForce 8800 GTS, it is sweeeeet!

 

[radnor]

This is what I believe will happen. B2 Phenom was basically AMD's Prescott, B3 was Pressler. Deneb will be a needed die shrink but might have some advantages that boost performance over B3 (as 65nm boosted per core performance up to 17% over Athlon X2).

Intel screwed up but stayed on top because of the OEM rebate program mishegoss. AMD screwed up and is staying alive because of OEM markets finally being opened up to them; and because ATI GPU's are top notch.

AMD will come back, but they'll still be number 2 in the market. I don't see that changing any time soon, whether or not AMD has a better CPU than Intel in any particular generation.

Between flames, fanboys bitch slapping each other, i think its a great conclusion. Keep discussing and feeling the bloodlust, but i guess the /thread has been said.

Peace !!

 

[jimmysmitty]

I agree.

Don't you freaking Intelers get it? AMD TRIES DAMN HARD! Doesn't that count for anything? Look at all the fancy buzzword stuff they've made, HT, OMC, MONOLITHIC, TLB.

Does Intel have any of this stuff? No they don't. Intel is too concentrated on producing real-world results and are not is not concentrated at all on over-elaborate desktop architecture.

Let's ignore all these stupid Intelers and turn this flame thread into an AMD appreciation thread.

I love the sarcasm. Hehe....nice

I'm feeling sassy tonight.

I was an AMD fan\supporter. Back in the day when it was neck and neck I bought AMD just to support the underdog; I figured if all was equal why not support competition.

However, since AMD started to FAIL EXECUTION miserably, I became upset and angry with the company, especially when they lied to investors and fans.

We reacted differently to this. You still support AMD like it is your child failing at sports, while I am angry with them for screwing up when they were positioned to make some real gains on Intel.


The best way to support competition is to buy the most competitive product, and in many (but not all) scenario's, that is currently Intel's product.

Buying a $230 AMD quad is the equivalent of watching the sequel to Dumb and Dumber because you liked the first; just doesn't make sense.


BTW: If you inject any emotion for AMD in your posts here you'll be quickly jumped on. We like benchmarks.

I agree 100%. Also the Dumb and Dumber sequle blew. Didn't do the original any justice. Man I miss Jim Carreys golden years.

I don't consider myself an Intel person, rather a price\performance person.

I'm a straight-up free market person, may the best company win (not to say that that I think companies should be allowed to commit anti-trust acts, which it looks like Intel may have done).

I don't believe in welfare and I don't believe in corporate charity. People shouldn't buy AMD processors because "they're a good company". People should buy AMD if it makes sense. In some cases it does, and in some cases it doesn't.

This is what I have been saying the whole time. No need to be a AMDer or Inteler. Sure you can be a 49er or Cowboyer but this is different.

Intel screwed up but stayed on top because of the OEM rebate program mishegoss. AMD screwed up and is staying alive because of OEM markets finally being opened up to them; and because ATI GPU's are top notch.

This is not all 100% true. You need to also include the fact that Intel has a much larger manufactureing capacity, while AMD was on top they did gain almost 40% of the market share, with the income they should have started to open more FABs but did not and also the OEMs opened up well before that. eMachines had AMD for a few years back, about 2003 to be exact but were not as common because AMD could not meet the needs.

But I do agree with your other points as well so

Yessir! My good 'ole Opty 175 is chugging away. I recently upgraded to a GeForce 8800 GTS, it is sweeeeet!

I'll still school you in TF2

 

[yomamafor1]

http://news.softpedia.com/news/AMD-Unleashes-Hydra-8-Core-Competition-for-Nehalems-84982.shtml
http://www.guru3d.com/news/amd-unleashes-hydra-8-core-cpu-in-2009/
http://www.fudzilla.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=7197&Itemid=1
all in 2008.
next time use google. and the right words.

Not to burst your bubbles here, but the information really seem unlikely.

1. native 8 cores for 45nm? That alone should ring some bells. If we take native quad core Nehalem for example (which is smaller than Deneb), native 8 core at 45nm would be in the range of 24x mm2. With AMD's 45nm process node, it will likely be Barcelona all over again: too big of a die, too low yields. Shanghai already is 243mm^2.

2. The 45nm SOI also rings some bells. The leakage problem should be very significant to the point that it doesn't offer much improvements over the 65nm SOI in terms. I would be surprised if they actually can get a native 8 core processor over 3.0Ghz without having to cherry bin or high TDP.

3. Then, all of the sources you listed are not "major" by any means. If AMD really made the announcements, why were there only second-tier media reporting this? Fudzilla, especially, is known for their tendency to make FUDs.

If this is true, it will definitely help AMD in the high end, especially in the server arena. However, given AMD's recent product launches, I will believe this news when it really comes out.

EDIT: It looks like Hydra will use HKMG rather than SOI. This is certainly a good news considering how bad the 45nm SOI must be leaking now.

 

[Amiga500]

1. native 8 cores for 45nm? That alone should ring some bells. If we take native quad core Nehalem for example (which is smaller than Deneb), native 8 core at 45nm would be in the range of 24x mm2. With AMD's 45nm process node, it will likely be Barcelona all over again: too big of a die, too low yields. Shanghai already is 243mm^2.

There is a version without any L3 cache.

I would imagine it would be the candidate for 8-cores on a die.

 

[jimmysmitty]

I still wont believe it until AMDs own site has this information (that some of those links claim to have gotten their info from too). They have nothing on Hydra but they do have info on the G3MX chips but those seem to be a way to allow more memory for a server.

 

[the last resort]

i think that AMD can easily achieve an 8 core, 45nm proc. The cell, developed by IBM, and in use in the PS3, has 8 cores, operating at 3.2 GHz, and is a 90nm SOI. So, 45nm I think is well inside the ballpark.

 

[jimmysmitty]

i think that AMD can easily achieve an 8 core, 45nm proc. The cell, developed by IBM, and in use in the PS3, has 8 cores, operating at 3.2 GHz, and is a 90nm SOI. So, 45nm I think is well inside the ballpark.

Dear God almighty. Not x86 based DUH!!!!!!!!

Its a different system with a much more complex for writing for that core. AMD will not be able to just use the Cell for their means.

Besides Cell sucks compared PC CPUs. Has 8 but one is in reserve and one is set for another thing so you get 6. But writing for it is so complex (hence why Gabe Newell hates the PS3) and time killing too.

But the main problem with AMD doing SOI based 8 core system @ 45nm is the size of the die on the wafer, the issues from leakage and the horrible yeilds it would bring.

 

[the last resort]

The cell has 8 usable cores. In the PS3, it has 6, because one is reserved for the OS, and another for something else. And the Cell doesn't suck, in fact it is part of the first supercomputer to reach a petaflop. It has the highest efficiency, too. The article said that the supercomputer that uses them that achieves 460 Gigaflops has a peak performance of 1.05 gigaflops per watt. I would love to have that in my comp. And the Cell can run Linux.

 

[jimmysmitty]

Terascale. 80 cores, 2.5GHz each using 62w and producing 1TFlop giving it 16.129 GFlops per watt.

See I can do it too. It can even be OCed to 5GHz giving 2TF and only doubling the power consumption.

Go to Intels website and look at it. Its a very pretty chip.

My point being it doesn't matter what they do with it. The Cell cannot be made to run x86 code nearly as well as a x86 based chip. Sure if ya recode it to run on Cell based code thats great but that will take time and money and time also equals money so you want to do that great.

Here is a great example of how Cell is not that great. VALVe released The Oarnge Box for PC. Then they went on to release it to the 360 then the PS3. Till today the 360 version and the PC version have gotten updates and patches. The PS3 version has not. Why you ask? Well VALVe didn't want to code the OB for the PS3 Cell since it is to complicated compared to x86 (the 360 has similar code to the PC) so they gave EA the rights to port it to the PC. Yea EA has yet to release any patches for it.

Other than that Cell is done on a different process than what AMD is using and probabyl cannot be applied to what AMD wants to do anyways.

 

[yomamafor1]

There is a version without any L3 cache.

I would imagine it would be the candidate for 8-cores on a die.

When, according to Fudzilla, has 2x the L2 cache, and the same 6Mb L3? I would say the final die size will be at least 50% larger than Shanghai, if not bigger.

Now I believe the questions become, how much is AMD selling them for, and who are their intended customers? I would venture to say that a CPU like that would easily cost thousands.

EDIT: If we assume Hydra is 50% larger than Shanghai, and assuming AMD's 45nm SOI is as bad as their 65nm SOI, we'll be looking at sub-10% yield.

In short, no, AMD will likely not manufacture Hydra until 32nm.

 

[yomamafor1]

The cell has 8 usable cores. In the PS3, it has 6, because one is reserved for the OS, and another for something else. And the Cell doesn't suck, in fact it is part of the first supercomputer to reach a petaflop. It has the highest efficiency, too. The article said that the supercomputer that uses them that achieves 460 Gigaflops has a peak performance of 1.05 gigaflops per watt. I would love to have that in my comp. And the Cell can run Linux.

Incorrect.

There are only 7 SPE functional in a cell processor for PS3, to increase the yields.

Go ahead and put Cell into your desktop, and run linux. Because you will not be able to do anything else than running scientific programs specifically developed for Cell. As Jimmy said, Cell is not x86 / x64 compatible, so there is no way you can use it on the desktop w/ Windows system.

As for yields, I believe you're mistaken in two things: 1. IBM and Sony can take low yields, but not AMD, 2. Architecture is completely different. We're talking about a RISC structured CPU and a CISC structured CPU. Since you think you know a lot, you must know the difference between them, no?