News AMD B650 Motherboards Listed at U.S. Retailer Starting at $199

[Why_Me]

I wonder how Intel's B670 boards will compare price wise.

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1730066-REG/msi_b650pwifi_pro_b650_p_wifi_am5.html

MSI PRO B650-P WIFI $219.99 USD
Audio Codec: Realtek ALC897

Asrock boards are usually cheap (in more ways than one).

https://videocardz.com/newz/asrock-...eaked-b650e-taichi-is-e-atx-with-27-phase-vrm

And for $60 USD more an MSI Z790 DDR5 board and not the cheapest one offered by far.

https://www.newegg.com/p/N82E16813144569

MSI PRO Z790-A WIFI $279.99 USD
Audio Chipset: Realtek ALC4080

https://www.msi.com/Motherboard/PRO-Z790-A-WIFI/Overview

 

[BogdanH]

Nowadays, more than ever, one need to distinct between "I wish" and "I need". Prices went up rapidly in last few years because... why actually???
Many hardware reviewers (or should we call them sellers) justify high prices by saying "latest tech is expensive" (if we forget covid mantra). But then, 3-4 years ago, we also had "latest" tech at half price. Even further.. same motherboard, which also was the "latest" at that time, is now almost double priced.
My opinion (if worth) is... Yes, it all started with covid -but not necessary only because of covid. At that time, sellers (makers) saw an opportunity (an excuse) to increase prices of allready existing products -simply because everyone else did the same.
Finally, covid "alarm" went down (kinda) and so, there's no more excuse for high prices. But, being able to sell at high prices (for the same amount of work) became contagious during covid. And sellers also realized (during market "test" period), that consumers are able (and actually willing) to pay higher price... so, no need to reduce prices.
I've been in marketing long enough to know, how marketing brains work and how demand & supply can be manipulated. But it always ends with us: consumers. Right now, it depends on what we "need" and what we "wish" to have.

Just my 2c,
Bogdan

 

[The Historical Fidelity]

There is a definite price hiding in increased chipset pricing by AMD. I can almost guarantee it. Increasing the layer count to 8 + a few vrms can't explain a price doubling with a minimum of features.

PCI-E 5 controllers/amplifiers/slots/etc. cost a lot more compared to PCI-E 4 components as well.

 

[tennis2]

When "budget" means $200+ for a mobo....RIP.

 

[logainofhades]

For my x570 itx build, $200 was the budget ITX option, at the time. The only other board that met my requirements, was closer to $300.

 

[SunMaster]

Zen4 is the biggest launch fail ever, forcing people into DDR5 , rampant scalping from mobo makers and to stay on top of benchmark charts, cpu pushed to the limit for power & temps

I don't think it's a failure despite not selling right now. DDR5 will soon match DDR4 pricing, many will wait to see what Intels next gen offers and manufacturers are extremely greedy. Once the dust settles it'll be business as usual, and Zen4 is no doubt a great generation.

 

[KyaraM]

I wonder how Intel's B760 boards will compare price wise.

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1730066-REG/msi_b650pwifi_pro_b650_p_wifi_am5.html

MSI PRO B650-P WIFI $219.99 USD
Audio Codec: Realtek ALC897

Asrock boards are usually cheap (in more ways than one).

https://videocardz.com/newz/asrock-...eaked-b650e-taichi-is-e-atx-with-27-phase-vrm

And for $60 USD more an MSI Z790 DDR5 board and not the cheapest one offered by far.

https://www.newegg.com/p/N82E16813144569

MSI PRO Z790-A WIFI $279.99 USD
Audio Chipset: Realtek ALC4080

https://www.msi.com/Motherboard/PRO-Z790-A-WIFI/Overview

Plus, Z690 are an option, too. You don't lose much connectivity from using one and they start at under 200 bucks...

 

[digitalgriffin]

PCI-E 5 controllers/amplifiers/slots/etc. cost a lot more compared to PCI-E 4 components as well.

The controller is built into the CPU. Remember this is B series chipsets, not X series. It's a straight line trace from the socket to the slot. The only thing differentiating it from PCIE 4 and 3 is the number of layers which is used to reduce signaling issues. Even the cheapest B Series is more than double the price. And adding two layers does not add that much to the BOM. This is even true on stripped down models, which these appear to be.

A B450 platform is still the best bang for your buck. If you want to future proof for GPU bandwidth, B550 should be on sale soon. The GPU performance jump from PCIE3 to PCIE4 was only a couple small percent.

 

[The Historical Fidelity]

The controller is built into the CPU. Remember this is B series chipsets, not X series. It's a straight line trace from the socket to the slot. The only thing differentiating it from PCIE 4 and 3 is the number of layers which is used to reduce signaling issues. Even the cheapest B Series is more than double the price. And adding two layers does not add that much to the BOM. This is even true on stripped down models, which these appear to be.

A B450 platform is still the best bang for your buck. If you want to future proof for GPU bandwidth, B550 should be on sale soon. The GPU performance jump from PCIE3 to PCIE4 was only a couple small percent.

Actually, PCI-E5 requires amplifiers, repeaters, PHY’s, and standalone digital controllers. Not to mention a redesigned “all around contact” pci-e 5 slots. And these chips are either much more expensive than pci-e 4 or not needed for previous gen pci-e so yes PCI-E 5 is increasing the cost of motherboards.

Actually Hardcore Overclocking has a video on the price breakdown for implementing pci-e 5 over 4 if you need a reference.

 

[TJ Hooker]

Actually Hardcore Overclocking has a video on the price breakdown for implementing pci-e 5 over 4 if you need a reference.

Can you provide a link to that video?

 

[-Fran-]

Can you provide a link to that video?

It's probably this one:

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KbTCWh3hXYc


Regards.

 

[The Historical Fidelity]

It's probably this one:

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KbTCWh3hXYc


Regards.

It’s actually this one,

View: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=p1riqtgfFsA

 

[TJ Hooker]

It’s actually this one,

View: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=p1riqtgfFsA

Thanks.

I watched it, and in response to your original comment:

Actually, PCI-E5 requires amplifiers, repeaters, PHY’s, and standalone digital controllers. Not to mention a redesigned “all around contact” pci-e 5 slots. And these chips are either much more expensive than pci-e 4 or not needed for previous gen pci-e so yes PCI-E 5 is increasing the cost of motherboards.

The PCIe PHY is on-die in the CPU (the IO die in the case of Ryzen).

He talks about a PCIe 5.0 switch on the MPG X670E Carbon, which makes no sense as the number of PCIe 5.0 lanes available on the mobo is 24, equal to the number provided by the CPU, so there's no switch involved. He mentions retimers being integrated into the PCIe 5.0 switch, but again, there is no switch.

Edit: On 2nd thought, you might need a switch to accommodate having two slots that can be either x16/x0 or x8/x8. In which case it does seem plausible that switch could add a fair bit to the cost.
/Edit

The redesigned slot is simply SMD rather than through hole, which even he describes as a pretty minor change. And he doesn't mention any amps and "standalone digital controllers".

 

[The Historical Fidelity]

Thanks.

I watched it, and in response to your original comment:


The PCIe PHY is on-die in the CPU (the IO die in the case of Ryzen).

He talks about a PCIe 5.0 switch on the MPG X670E Carbon, which makes no sense as the number of PCIe 5.0 lanes available on the mobo is 24, equal to the number provided by the CPU, so there's no switch involved. He mentions retimers being integrated into the PCIe 5.0 switch, but again, there is no switch.

Edit: On 2nd thought, you might need a switch to accommodate having two slots that can be either x16/x0 or x8/x8. In which case it does seem plausible that switch could add a fair bit to the cost.
/Edit

The redesigned slot is simply SMD rather than through hole, which even he describes as a pretty minor change. And he doesn't mention any amps and "standalone digital controllers".

Well it might be another video then. I remember him distinctly circling a random chip between the socket and first pci-e slot and saying it was about 5 times as expensive as the pci-e 4 equivalent. If I have time to sift through his videos to find it I will. And the amps are just for the bottom 2 pci-e 5 lanes on mobos running pci-e 5 on the bottom as well because the pam-4 signaling degrades quickly with distance.

 

[digitalgriffin]

Well it might be another video then. I remember him distinctly circling a random chip between the socket and first pci-e slot and saying it was about 5 times as expensive as the pci-e 4 equivalent. If I have time to sift through his videos to find it I will. And the amps are just for the bottom 2 pci-e 5 lanes on mobos running pci-e 5 on the bottom as well because the pam-4 signaling degrades quickly with distance.

The amps are for additional channels used in the x and e series chipsets. The CPU has its own pcie lanes which contain all the hardware necessary, and they go straight to the slot.

You are quite correct that the signal degrades quickly. However for the first few slots what the CPU provides is fine.

 

[The Historical Fidelity]

The amps are for additional channels used in the x and e series chipsets. The CPU has its own pcie lanes which contain all the hardware necessary, and they go straight to the slot.

You are quite correct that the signal degrades quickly. However for the first few slots what the CPU provides is fine.

Just found another reason for increased PCI-E 5 costs. A new PCB material is required to preserve trace signal integrity.

Anyway I love it how people lambast board makers on increased costs without doing a shred of research to see if it’s justified.

https://resources.altium.com/p/what-goes-pcie-50-layout-and-routing

 

[digitalgriffin]

Just found another reason for increased PCI-E 5 costs. A new PCB material is required to preserve trace signal integrity.

Anyway I love it how people lambast board makers on increased costs without doing a shred of research to see if it’s justified.

https://resources.altium.com/p/what-goes-pcie-50-layout-and-routing

The board roughness they are referring to is the fiber density. Even ASRock (Asus/Giga/MSI also) has used a much finer and higher density for a long time that was above standard grade. It made the boards stronger and smoother for the trace application.

The end to end capacitors (to act as a snubber) and pcie surface mount is new. But again, not that big a cost difference.

 

[The Historical Fidelity]

The board roughness they are referring to is the fiber density. Even ASRock (Asus/Giga/MSI also) has used a much finer and higher density for a long time that was above standard grade. It made the boards stronger and smoother for the trace application.

The end to end capacitors (to act as a snubber) and pcie surface mount is new. But again, not that big a cost difference.

Nothing personal, but I’m gonna need a reference for your assertion that AIB’s already use low loss laminates because FR-4 of any type is not low loss. And you also keep on asserting that these individual things don’t cost that much more but you fail to take into consideration the sum of the cost differences of the DDR 5 and pci-e 5 components themselves and the additional cost to manufacture. As well as the increased number and higher amperage power stages and the change from pga to lga socket, etc..
If the motherboard AIB’s were price gouging then we would be hearing about it through the normal channels as well as insider sources/leaks but there’s nothing.

 

[cyrusfox]

DDR5 will soon match DDR4 pricing,

Wil never happen, DDR5 will always cost more due to additional hardware (IC) required on dimm (Buffer chip, dual channel, Internal ECC) Even when volumen of DDR5 = DDR4 there will always be a premium for DDR5.

 

[SunMaster]

Wil never happen,

Famous last words 😁

 

[cyrusfox]

Famous last words 😁

Remember to come back here and gloat if you are right, I remember for all prior generations (DDR1 being more expensive than DDR2 at EOL) Same for DDR2 and DDR3. But I don't see that happening for DDR4 vs 5 due to the added circuitry and a redundant DRAM chip needed for onboard ECC. The only scenario I see where this happens is when DDR4 is no longer being made and there is few left in the used market, 6-8 years out maybe if ever.

I am seeing $150 for 2x32GB 3200 DDR4 sodimms now on the used market(DDR5 4800 2x32gb seeing $260 right now). DDR5 has a very long way to go to be cheaper, even with a memory crash I don't see ddr5 coming down to that level anytime soon .